Author Topic: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...  (Read 114068 times)

TBK

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #260 on: September 05, 2012, 06:13:53 PM »
Registered just so I could give my input and support.  I was a previous longtime coh player and am ready to fully support any efforts to save the game.

Where I can help:

I have server administration background (and currently do that for my job) so if anything is needed in that area I can help.

I've done a lot of game testing and level design in the past so anything around that I can also help with.

Ziggy1890

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #261 on: September 05, 2012, 06:55:51 PM »
Hey guys, Next Spirit here.
I wanted to make this known here.  This is Obsidius's posts on the forums regarding the Twitch stream.

Quick notes:
This may be the last livestream (maybe not, who knows?)
Trying to enable VIP for ALL players & Double XP on ALL servers, as well as "as many holiday events as possible" (probably just one at a time, lamentably)
Due to possible stability issues, I24 will not be launched to Live, but it is on beta.
I24 is on Beta, and all the Market items are zeroed out (will not do on Live "just in case"; they don't want to possibly ruin the economy (presumably in case the game is saved via deus ex machina))
Cryptic did NOT kill CoH by witholding an engine license; the license was purchased in perpetuity for CoH and another unreleased project
SOE is not interested in purchasing CoH
Paragon Studio employess have to sign NDAs upon their termination which keeps them from discussing the closure of the studio.
CoH cannot be Kickstarted because it is not a new project
Indie studio aspirations are unlikely, but they would love to do it if there was capital, backing, etc.
If fans could raise enough funds, could CoH be saved? Unknown, ask the folks in Korea.
Ultimately unfeasible MA wish list items (due to dev hours required) - changing the rating system to a "Like" system; branching dialogue trees; UI work; map maker (would require base fix first); hooking up LUA to MA.
You'll never get to see the moon base  (presumable was in development)
Base redesign - possible monotization options for apartment system, but never got past discussion phase
Servers run on Linux (of course)
Server maintenance must be run once a week to keep things running straight
Game/Engine will Never be released to public (presumable because it's not Open Source and the engine isn't legally theirs, it's Cryptic's)
No dev swag giveaways because it requires legal (legal is no longer available, the studio is closing)
There was a lot of stuff still in development
Last Friday was a very hard day, but ended up being inspirational, a last party and a sharing of memories, with beers afterwards.
Is there any hope? There's always hope...
Probably no I24 trailer
Unfortunately no word re: refunds, but wait for NCSoft to send more word.
Zwill and others will stay on as long as possible to turn the lights on/off
Turn on base raids? No, would require hard code.
Will VIPs remain so until close? Unknown, will verify to try to ensure that no one drops VIP.
No schedule of events b/c staff needs to be on moment's notice for job interviews, but will randomly pop in and do stuff
No ideas re: Omega slots
No special End of World event due to no devs, maybe spawning a bunch of stuff
Hugs for all!
Servers still scheduled to go dark Nov. 30th
Don't know what will happen to server/data assets when game ends
Devs play different MMOs (part of their job, actually)
If there is a pending lawsuit (ex: Worlds.com), they wouldn't be able to talk about it
Best bet to see where people end up? Follow them on social networks (Twitter, etc.). Can't talk about that stuff.
Zwill & staff appreciate the groundswell of support/ petitions/ etc. from the community!
Nothing in the works for *huge* PvP changes; Arbiter Hawk proposed a lot of changes, but it would have required a lot of time & resources required for other projects
Probably could NOT dedicate teams of devs or resources to PvP (PvP would never be the primary focus). Also, with the release of new powersets so frequently, PvP balance would have been "a nightmare".
Super secret project? Under NDA, and cancelled with the studio closure.
No new ATs were in the works
Matt Miller on Twitter: @MMODesigner
Melissa Bianco on Twitter:@MelissaBianco
Jesse Lawrence on Twitter: @HitStreak
Zwill's fondest memories: Player Summits (and player interactions on the forums)
NCSoft owns your characters (technically; whether or not they would choose to exercise that right if you used your character on another game or medium is doubtful ("IANAL"))
I24 included mouse pointer scaling to change the size of the pointer
Private server possibility? "IANAL", but probably not legal.

firegoblin

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #262 on: September 05, 2012, 07:07:35 PM »
Customer service manager willing to offer secretarial and organizational skills. I have a community of people around me who i have brought to the game since playing in 2005. We are willing to offer financial support as well as our professional skills:

**english and drama professor willing to offer proof reading and story-boarding capabilities.
**customer service manager willing to do secretarial and organizational duties as well as field a customer service layout should the game be run by the community.
**an accountant at 1 of the top international accountant firms.
all of us computer savvy.

also at your disposal is a host of other people i have brought to paragon city, they are all around us and they will offer their funds and skills: journalist, pilot, real estate agent, mailman, nurse, IT specialist, music composer, banker, mechanic, photo editor, and more.

We're heroes... it's not something we choose, it's what we are. Its why COH calls out to us unlike the others. It's that connection we all have that makes this gaming community especially unique. we finally found a forum to be the better parts of ourselves alongside others doing the same thing. We have to maintain hope that we can overcome these insurmountable odds. After all, We're heroes, in the face of those odds, all we know to do is hope.

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #263 on: September 05, 2012, 07:17:30 PM »
NCSoft owns your characters (technically; whether or not they would choose to exercise that right if you used your character on another game or medium is doubtful ("IANAL"))

This would be an interesting case to test, because while you can contract away copyright ownership for original works that you create (like a character), the legality of doing it through a blanket clickwrap license for characters you haven't even made yet when you agreed to it is somewhat dubious.

Codewalker

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #264 on: September 05, 2012, 07:19:58 PM »
Also -- and I wish people would have thought about this before spamming him with questions he couldn't answer -- remember that Andy Belford is still technically employed by NCSoft, so anything he says has to officially represent their position, or he risks losing the means of supporting his family.

Sucks for him (and I say this as someone who's been in a similar position before), but we need to keep that in mind.

Tsumiju Zero

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #265 on: September 05, 2012, 07:25:21 PM »
I know we already have banners, but I wanted to contribute!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 08:19:09 PM by Tsumiju Zero »

Ampithere

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #266 on: September 05, 2012, 08:21:58 PM »
This would be an interesting case to test, because while you can contract away copyright ownership for original works that you create (like a character), the legality of doing it through a blanket clickwrap license for characters you haven't even made yet when you agreed to it is somewhat dubious.

That's a good point. I think it was more in there to protect the game from situations caused by people saying they owned characters or whatever, and severely doubt it was ever intended to prevent us from using the characters in another form. If they did try to exercise their ownership, I don't believe it would hold up in court. More importantly, it would cost them money to protect something we created in a game they shut down. So...it's not really in their best interests.
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aphantasm

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #267 on: September 05, 2012, 10:19:41 PM »
That's a good point. I think it was more in there to protect the game from situations caused by people saying they owned characters or whatever, and severely doubt it was ever intended to prevent us from using the characters in another form. If they did try to exercise their ownership, I don't believe it would hold up in court. More importantly, it would cost them money to protect something we created in a game they shut down. So...it's not really in their best interests.

While I know this won't stop them if they want to dive into the past dbase dumps and get character info. But I will be deleting all my toons on every server I played on, before they turn out the lights.

Evangel - Project 7

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #268 on: September 05, 2012, 11:43:49 PM »
How did you make your cutscenes? I'm looking for ways of preserving the characters and things I've made in-game, whether through demorecords, screenshots, 3D ripping & shapeways etc.


Use demorecord and manually edited the code. It was... painstaking.


I'm going to make a post in a new thread once I have some work done but I'm currently in the process of using demorecord and a simple plotting program to make a virtual coordinate map for each outdoor map in the game - and some indoor maps - so that in the event that CoH shuts down indefinitely the game can still live on in demorecord edits.

But I want to post my work on here in case that can be used for any reverse-engineering for map replication. More info on that (and in its own thread to keep on topic) later in the month when I've done some compiling.




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Evangel - Project 7

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #269 on: September 06, 2012, 12:23:17 AM »
TV ads are quite expensive; there's a reason Paragon Studios never tried it themselves.

But if the Titan crew manage to pull this off, they'll make Nerd History.  I imagine that'll generate a lot of press.

As I have worked in advertising and television I can second this - even local station ads can run a couple thousand a pop, wide-coverage stations can peak at 5-digits in high population, and major cable and network stations are 5+ digits for ad time.

MMOs have a more niche audiences, I think your periodical ads would certainly be more effect, along with online advertising.



Has anyone thought about contacting Superherohype.com? (the old Spider-Man Hype website that now covers ALL comic-related tv and media) I bet Titan could get an interview on there, and wouldn't be surprised if the SHH staff wouldn't further reach out to the Devs - provided the devs are legally allowed to conduct interviews, which might be a clause in their contracts that prohibit that if fired. Either way SHH would probably give Titan the press, and if we ever did have ads I'm sure SHH would support them for lower cost even.



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voodoogirl

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #270 on: September 06, 2012, 12:33:21 AM »
I could possible whip something up in Blender  as a video about the end on Nov 30

Manga

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #271 on: September 06, 2012, 12:39:06 AM »
I thought the best way to proceed for a takeover given the information that's been coming out this week, so as promised, I'm posting it now in as best detail as I can:

Step 1: Initiation of Contact 

Send a "delivery confirmation" letter to NCSoft, copies to its board, CEO, and soon-to-be-discovered person responsible for IP and contracts.  The letter will emphasize that we believe the City of Heroes franchise need to be utilized, and that this letter explains how it will be profitable for all parties involved. 

In the same letter, we make an offer to take over operations of City of Heroes and Paragon Studios, in exchange for paying a negotiated one-time flat fee plus 10% of all net proceeds earned to NCSoft, on either a monthly or quarterly basis.  NCSoft retains the trademarks and IP, but bears none of the costs. 

We also offer, in the same letter, the option to purchase entirely the entire City of Heroes and Paragon Studios IP and all trademarks at a later date, with profits excluding the 10% that goes to NCSoft.  So even if we buy the property next month, they still get the 10% on top of the purchase for that month (if we didn't include that, they would require it anyhow).  This clause also opens the option for NCSoft to reject the first offer (the licensing) and accept the second (full purchase).

The reasons why I believe this option is best: 

A) I have experience with negotiating licensing/operational agreements, and they're much simpler than IP transfer agreements (I'm not a lawyer, though).

B) If NCSoft axed City of Heroes with the intention of keeping the IP in case it chooses to release a City of Heroes 2 later on, they will be more likely to accept.

C) I believe this is the most effective way to raise money and make this happen.

D)  If another party is currently making a cash purchase offer, our offer will not interfere with theirs; However, another company is unlikely to pursue a license/operating agreement, so they won't interfere with us either.  In other words, this method is friendliest to anyone else attempting to purchase CoH right now.

Note, of course, that NCSoft could still reject both parts of the deal outright; or we could be beaten to the punch by someone else; or the letter could simply be returned, or vanish with no reply.  Step 1 is by far the most fragile.  In fact, the best case scenario right now is probably NCSoft asking for a much higher percentage.


Step 2: Fundraising

The second step is raising money.  This can be as difficult as Step 1, and cannot be completed before Step 1 - because we don't know yet what the license fee will be, or what the purchase price will be if that situation arises.  Step 1 is also not a sure thing, so if we raise money prematurely, we're stuck figuring out how to return it.

Once we know approximately how much we need, we will most likely have to pursue multiple avenues to get it.  We might need anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million dollars.  At that scale, we're going to need to have enough margin built into that to pay an expert to manage that money, so we don't scare away anyone contributing/investing.  Why?  Because who would invest $100,000 if they don't think we're responsible?  The less management we have, the less money people will be willing to invest.

We also need an expert to determine if we're going to have to pay any tax on the money raised, or what we can legally do to avoid that.  Not just someone who does their brother's taxes, because once again, this is a confidence issue.  We want anyone making a significant investment to feel that every dollar is safely accounted for.


Step 3:  Restructuring

Quite a lot of City of Heroes is currently tied to NCSoft.  If we're to be the new, independent operators, we're going to lose some very expensive pieces that NCSoft will no longer help with.  We will have no Account Server, no Account Reps, and no Support Reps.

We also do not know how much NCSoft has been subsidizing Paragon Studios, so it's somewhat to very likely we will not be able to re-hire everyone.  Tough decisions will have to be made both by current/former Paragon staff, at who stays and who goes.  Tough decisions will have to be made by players as to how much hardship they're willing to accept as a result of more difficult Support and Account help.

More tough decisions will have to be made about how much a monthly subscription will be, and how the Paragon Store item prices will be restructured.  It's very important that, at least initially, City of Heroes brings in as much profit as possible, without losing too many subscribers in the process.

That also means, of course, we need people who love numbers, and figuring things out.

As for technology, we will need help from people familiar with the pre-Launcher patch server, and web site designers to not only set up account management via the CoH web site, but also modify the CoH web site so it no longer relies on links to NCSoft.  Additionally, this includes a new ticket support system not tied to NCSoft, and possibly volunteers to handle in-game GM duties until that structure is re-built and put in place.


Step 4: Moving Forward

City of Heroes operation will not succeed if it stays where it is.  People will get bored and move on to other games, or cancel their monthly subscriptions and go free, and use CoH as a chat client to talk occasionally to friends.  It's a law of the nature of gaming.

That means to remain profitable, the development schedule must move forward.

I would leave most of this in the hands of the people left at Paragon Studios because they're good at it; but I would suggest the release of Issue 24 quickly, on a skeleton crew if necessary, along with any Paragon Store items they can create rapidly.  Because staffing will be a problem at first, the faster something comes out that generates more player interest, the better.  It brings in more profit, and the chances more hiring, and the chances of further quick releases.


If we're going to follow this plan we have to do it quickly.  I've been noticing that following the flurry of rallies and protests this weekend, players are starting to drift away and vanish, assuming there won't be a game around soon, and they may as well find something else.  Since, if we take over the operation of CoH, we'll have to make do without outside help, and with 10% or so less profit, we can't lose a lot of players.

That's all I have for now, any questions or comments?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 12:48:54 AM by TheManga »

Cannonfodder

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #272 on: September 06, 2012, 12:41:04 AM »
My Skills:

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Morvani

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #273 on: September 06, 2012, 01:29:51 AM »
Hi,

I'm afraid I don't have much to offer, but you have my support and whatever money I would have used continuing the yearly subscription on my three CoH accounts.

This game and community (especially The Cape Radio) has been a huge part of my life for over eight years. I tried other games in the interim, some of which distracted me for a little while, but I never let my subs voluntarily lapse (the times they did lapse was because I forgot to update my cc expiry).  I always came back to sweet home CoH, and I want to keep coming back.

Go get 'em, fellas.

Ampithere

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #274 on: September 06, 2012, 02:05:41 AM »
I thought the best way to proceed for a takeover given the information that's been coming out this week, so as promised, I'm posting it now in as best detail as I can:

Step 1: Initiation of Contact 

Send a "delivery confirmation" letter to NCSoft, copies to its board, CEO, and soon-to-be-discovered person responsible for IP and contracts.  The letter will emphasize that we believe the City of Heroes franchise need to be utilized, and that this letter explains how it will be profitable for all parties involved. 

In the same letter, we make an offer to take over operations of City of Heroes and Paragon Studios, in exchange for paying a negotiated one-time flat fee plus 10% of all net proceeds earned to NCSoft, on either a monthly or quarterly basis.  NCSoft retains the trademarks and IP, but bears none of the costs. 

We also offer, in the same letter, the option to purchase entirely the entire City of Heroes and Paragon Studios IP and all trademarks at a later date, with profits excluding the 10% that goes to NCSoft.  So even if we buy the property next month, they still get the 10% on top of the purchase for that month (if we didn't include that, they would require it anyhow).  This clause also opens the option for NCSoft to reject the first offer (the licensing) and accept the second (full purchase).

The reasons why I believe this option is best: 

A) I have experience with negotiating licensing/operational agreements, and they're much simpler than IP transfer agreements (I'm not a lawyer, though).

B) If NCSoft axed City of Heroes with the intention of keeping the IP in case it chooses to release a City of Heroes 2 later on, they will be more likely to accept.

C) I believe this is the most effective way to raise money and make this happen.

D)  If another party is currently making a cash purchase offer, our offer will not interfere with theirs; However, another company is unlikely to pursue a license/operating agreement, so they won't interfere with us either.  In other words, this method is friendliest to anyone else attempting to purchase CoH right now.

Note, of course, that NCSoft could still reject both parts of the deal outright; or we could be beaten to the punch by someone else; or the letter could simply be returned, or vanish with no reply.  Step 1 is by far the most fragile.  In fact, the best case scenario right now is probably NCSoft asking for a much higher percentage.


Step 2: Fundraising

The second step is raising money.  This can be as difficult as Step 1, and cannot be completed before Step 1 - because we don't know yet what the license fee will be, or what the purchase price will be if that situation arises.  Step 1 is also not a sure thing, so if we raise money prematurely, we're stuck figuring out how to return it.

Once we know approximately how much we need, we will most likely have to pursue multiple avenues to get it.  We might need anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million dollars.  At that scale, we're going to need to have enough margin built into that to pay an expert to manage that money, so we don't scare away anyone contributing/investing.  Why?  Because who would invest $100,000 if they don't think we're responsible?  The less management we have, the less money people will be willing to invest.

We also need an expert to determine if we're going to have to pay any tax on the money raised, or what we can legally do to avoid that.  Not just someone who does their brother's taxes, because once again, this is a confidence issue.  We want anyone making a significant investment to feel that every dollar is safely accounted for.


Step 3:  Restructuring

Quite a lot of City of Heroes is currently tied to NCSoft.  If we're to be the new, independent operators, we're going to lose some very expensive pieces that NCSoft will no longer help with.  We will have no Account Server, no Account Reps, and no Support Reps.

We also do not know how much NCSoft has been subsidizing Paragon Studios, so it's somewhat to very likely we will not be able to re-hire everyone.  Tough decisions will have to be made both by current/former Paragon staff, at who stays and who goes.  Tough decisions will have to be made by players as to how much hardship they're willing to accept as a result of more difficult Support and Account help.

More tough decisions will have to be made about how much a monthly subscription will be, and how the Paragon Store item prices will be restructured.  It's very important that, at least initially, City of Heroes brings in as much profit as possible, without losing too many subscribers in the process.

That also means, of course, we need people who love numbers, and figuring things out.

As for technology, we will need help from people familiar with the pre-Launcher patch server, and web site designers to not only set up account management via the CoH web site, but also modify the CoH web site so it no longer relies on links to NCSoft.  Additionally, this includes a new ticket support system not tied to NCSoft, and possibly volunteers to handle in-game GM duties until that structure is re-built and put in place.


Step 4: Moving Forward

City of Heroes operation will not succeed if it stays where it is.  People will get bored and move on to other games, or cancel their monthly subscriptions and go free, and use CoH as a chat client to talk occasionally to friends.  It's a law of the nature of gaming.

That means to remain profitable, the development schedule must move forward.

I would leave most of this in the hands of the people left at Paragon Studios because they're good at it; but I would suggest the release of Issue 24 quickly, on a skeleton crew if necessary, along with any Paragon Store items they can create rapidly.  Because staffing will be a problem at first, the faster something comes out that generates more player interest, the better.  It brings in more profit, and the chances more hiring, and the chances of further quick releases.


If we're going to follow this plan we have to do it quickly.  I've been noticing that following the flurry of rallies and protests this weekend, players are starting to drift away and vanish, assuming there won't be a game around soon, and they may as well find something else.  Since, if we take over the operation of CoH, we'll have to make do without outside help, and with 10% or so less profit, we can't lose a lot of players.

That's all I have for now, any questions or comments?

I have a comment. I like this plan and am fully behind it's implementation.
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Joshex

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #275 on: September 06, 2012, 03:59:00 AM »
I will be absent until the end of September due to travels
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #276 on: September 06, 2012, 04:50:43 AM »
If we're going to follow this plan we have to do it quickly.  I've been noticing that following the flurry of rallies and protests this weekend, players are starting to drift away and vanish, assuming there won't be a game around soon, and they may as well find something else.

Hmm.... I hope we can at least partly blame it on the announcement happening over a long weekend and at the end of summer holidays for many, with a subsequent scramble back to work/school. I didn't make it back home till past 8PM PST *Grumble*.

This looks to be a comparatively realistic set of plans and compromises. Steps 3/4 may turn out very differently though, depending on how 1 goes.
Have you played with a KiTTY today?

fuzzjdc

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #277 on: September 06, 2012, 04:55:45 AM »
Quite a lot of City of Heroes is currently tied to NCSoft.  If we're to be the new, independent operators, we're going to lose some very expensive pieces that NCSoft will no longer help with.  We will have no Account Server
That is going to be the biggest problem if we have to build it from scratch. The community has provided support for pretty much everything.

TonyV

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #278 on: September 10, 2012, 11:14:53 PM »
Hey all, I've whacked out three pages of comments that descended into bickering about keeping the existing CoH versus writing a new game.  I've kept the remainder of the thread in a new post named A Dissent.  I'm not trying to shut down this conversation, I just don't want it cluttering up this thread.

I will take a second to say that right now, we still have several options open to us.  Some of them have a lot shorter time period in which we have to act than others.  Building a new game from scratch is one of those that has a much longer time period, so I don't want to distract our focus on the smaller windows by arguing over it right now.  If we get to a point where those options need to be explored, I assure you that they will be explored thoroughly.  I also assure you that we are currently working very hard on ensuring that we have any data and documentation that we need to progress at that time if it comes to that.

castorcorvus

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Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #279 on: September 10, 2012, 11:20:05 PM »
Leave it to TonyV to see reason. lol