Author Topic: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...  (Read 114048 times)

Ampithere

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 348
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #280 on: September 11, 2012, 01:19:35 AM »
Leave it to TonyV to see reason. lol

Indeed. Thanks for keeping us all on task Tony!  :)
@Rorn

Most recently active as Blue Baron

Guardian Server

krissspire

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #281 on: September 11, 2012, 01:34:15 AM »
I had a thought that may help.  I've only just started understanding the reason for the shutting down of CoH and that was due to the below 125,000 subscription player base according to this. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/01/hang-up-your-cape-city-of-heroes-to-close/  Maybe the "quitting while you're ahead" line was used and it just made sense to pull the plug?

So I was thinking.  I've been going to Newgrounds.com and playing some of their free games and they have impressed me.  Some are better and have more replayability then other games one would pay for.  Armor Games comes to mind in a flash. 

I almost wonder if they could help in some way?  Money is the issue here isn't it?  As well as a player base that has remained low for some time.  Would looking into getting anyone in Armor Games or New Grounds help at all?

Ampithere

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 348
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #282 on: September 11, 2012, 01:42:22 AM »
I had a thought that may help.  I've only just started understanding the reason for the shutting down of CoH and that was due to the below 125,000 subscription player base according to this. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/01/hang-up-your-cape-city-of-heroes-to-close/  Maybe the "quitting while you're ahead" line was used and it just made sense to pull the plug?

So I was thinking.  I've been going to Newgrounds.com and playing some of their free games and they have impressed me.  Some are better and have more replayability then other games one would pay for.  Armor Games comes to mind in a flash. 

I almost wonder if they could help in some way?  Money is the issue here isn't it?  As well as a player base that has remained low for some time.  Would looking into getting anyone in Armor Games or New Grounds help at all?

Well, I don't really know that money is the issue. Thing is, CoH was making money. It's just, it wasn't popular in the Asian markets that matter to NCSoft and its shareholders (like Nexon). If money is a cause, it is only insofar as it wasn't enough money to make shutting down a demonstrably bad decision.

Money is, however, relevant. Mainly because it'll take a lot of it to buy an IP from a company that, to my knowledge, has not sold any IP ever. Not that it's impossible, just that it'll be expensive - which brings me to Newgrounds.

I don't know that Newgrounds is a bad idea. But only in two capacities. Firstly, they can help us get further support from the gaming community (which has shocked me with relatively high levels of support so far). Secondly, they could be investors for the game. Newgrounds invests in the game, and maybe some billboards in Paragon City are about Newgrounds or their popular games. I have no idea how much money Newgrounds makes though, so even that may not be feasible.
@Rorn

Most recently active as Blue Baron

Guardian Server

Manga

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 334
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #283 on: September 11, 2012, 02:30:22 AM »
One thought to remember:  The gaming press has been (mistakenly) pushing the mantra for a while now that full-fledged gaming and MMO's are dead, and i-device casual gaming is the future.  Of course, these are the same press who say the desktop PC is dead and it's all going to be tablets and phones from now on.  But it also doesn't help that the guy responsible for keeping Windows gaming healthy, Steve Ballmer of Microsoft, believes the mantra and wants Windows 8 to kill gaming by turning W8 into a tablet experience.

But, what if in Korea (and China) where the desktop PC is alive and well, and MMO's are top of the market, the companies there are starting to believe the American press?  It would be only natural for them to say, let's pull out now and stay in Korea where the market is healthy before those i-Devices and casual games ruin us in North America.

So this may be NCSoft short of cash, or it could be they're reacting to what the industry press is mistakenly telling them is the future.  Or both.

As an aside:  It may become a self-fulfilling prophesy someday.  More MMO's are being made by companies based outside the U.S., and more casual games are being made *in* the U.S.  It's possible the markets may separate, making it harder for Americans to get access to MMO's, and be stuck with only casual games.

This doesn't really affect our plan, it's just speculation of why NCSoft may have decided to kill CoH.  It also increases (slightly) the possibility they'll be willing to be rid of it if they can sell or license it, if their primary motivation is indeed to get out of the U.S. market before, they believe, MMO's become irrelevant here.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 02:36:56 AM by TheManga »

HeliumPhoenix

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #284 on: September 18, 2012, 10:17:51 PM »
As someone who is definitely interested in lending whatever support I can to the efforts to save CoX...

I am a senior software engineer.  C/C++/Java/Assembly and more in multiple platforms.  Also SQL, sockets, OpenGL, and more.  While I currently work doing java/javascript at a VOIP company, I was doing C/C++ for a long time before now.  I'm all for emulation, especially if we can open-source the server code to provide a way for open hosting and clustering.

I've been programming for over 30 years.  Let me know how I can help out!


Joshex

  • [citation needed]
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,027
    • my talk page
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #285 on: September 21, 2012, 09:09:41 AM »
We need to gain the support of the Asian game market.

I've advertised it to some while I was in china one loved it and another said the graphics were lame and it had no chinese typing ability so he didn't want to play.

I say we start making COH and CoV advertisement banners saying "better graphics and chinese typing coming soon, look intestesting then contact NCSoft and tell them (URL here)" of coarse say it in chinese I can help with translation a bit.

and then find someway to send these advertisement banners to china, then of coarse korea in korean.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

ROBOKiTTY

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • KiTTYRiffic
    • KiTTYLand
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #286 on: September 21, 2012, 03:54:18 PM »
We need to gain the support of the Asian game market.

I've advertised it to some while I was in china one loved it and another said the graphics were lame and it had no chinese typing ability so he didn't want to play.

I say we start making COH and CoV advertisement banners saying "better graphics and chinese typing coming soon, look intestesting then contact NCSoft and tell them (URL here)" of coarse say it in chinese I can help with translation a bit.

and then find someway to send these advertisement banners to china, then of coarse korea in korean.

CoX had some minimal undocumented support for Korean, Japanese, and Traditional Chinese (but not Simplified), probably because NC had offices in Korea and Taiwan but not China. The chat overhaul and new market interface broke it badly, though.
Have you played with a KiTTY today?

WanderingAries

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 321
  • @WanderingAries /\ Mostly on Torch
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #287 on: September 22, 2012, 01:11:03 AM »
As someone who is definitely interested in lending whatever support I can to the efforts to save CoX...

I am a senior software engineer.  C/C++/Java/Assembly and more in multiple platforms.  Also SQL, sockets, OpenGL, and more.  While I currently work doing java/javascript at a VOIP company, I was doing C/C++ for a long time before now.  I'm all for emulation, especially if we can open-source the server code to provide a way for open hosting and clustering.

I've been programming for over 30 years.  Let me know how I can help out!
Why does my degree/experience look neat when talking to RL friends, but crap/outmatched when talking here/ingame?   >.<
Find me on Homecoming:
https://www.homecomingservers.com

Scott Jackson

  • Plan Z: Gameplay Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 497
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #288 on: September 23, 2012, 04:38:35 PM »
CoH is naturally appealing to a self-selecting horde of tens of thousands of tech-lovers...and then that group self-selects once again to get here on the Titan Network.  No fear, you're in good company!

aphantasm

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #289 on: October 17, 2012, 07:42:54 PM »
Am I correct in my assumption you all decided not to do an emu for CoX?

downix

  • Phoenix Project Technical Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,962
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #290 on: October 17, 2012, 07:43:44 PM »
Am I correct in my assumption you all decided not to do an emu for CoX?
Look up SEGS

aphantasm

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #291 on: October 17, 2012, 08:43:39 PM »
I'm on SEGS and have asked them the same question. But you all are not related to SEGS and from previous posts here I know there had been discussions here about an EMU.

GuyPerfect

  • Mary Poppins
  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #292 on: October 18, 2012, 04:41:22 PM »
I can tell you now, as someone in the know, that Titan Network is not working on any emulation or reverse-engineering projects and does not wish to be affiliated with any such project.

However...

I can also tell you, as someone in the know, that many people who coincidentally happen to be members of Titan Network are working on emulation and reverse-engineering projects and that progress is moving along quite well. (-:

Burnt Toast

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
  • Tastes Good!
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #293 on: October 22, 2012, 04:58:34 AM »

THIS is the main reason I have decided to leave Titan Network. While not "endorsing" an emulator...some of those involved in the Titan Network are involved in the emulator project.


I refuse to be involved with any type of illegal activity on a morality front and a professional front. The fact that Titan turns a blind eye to this; and basically supports an emulator, is the reason that this will be my last post on these forums. The Save CoH movement has been all about the slogan "We are heroes...this is what we do." Apparently the "This" is meant to include illegal activities.... Yeah no thanks.


I choose to let go of the game and let it go out in a heroic manner... instead of joining a bunch of thieves who refuse to let go when the time arrives. No matter how you may try to sugar coat it; no matter how much you think you are "owed"...an emulator is nothing but stealing and highly illegal.


Had a great 7+ years, but I know when it's time to let things go.



I can tell you now, as someone in the know, that Titan Network is not working on any emulation or reverse-engineering projects and does not wish to be affiliated with any such project.

However...

I can also tell you, as someone in the know, that many people who coincidentally happen to be members of Titan Network are working on emulation and reverse-engineering projects and that progress is moving along quite well. (-:

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #294 on: October 22, 2012, 05:09:46 AM »
Members might be working on an emulator but not Titan Network.

Blaming Titan network for something who isn't payed by the Titan, isn't ordered by Titan, isn't involved in Titan except by being on a Forum.  IS foolish.

Titan Network is building a New game.  Members who are doing their own emulation projects are discouraged.  But with out hacking into their computers braking any rights they have.  There is no way Titan Network can control people who doing something of their own. 

Burnt Toast we all are here working for free.  Only things that are posted and talked about are accepted.  Independence operations can't be controlled.  IF who ever trying an Emulation posts on the board They will be punished and perchance have the membership terminated.  We want Plan Z 100% LEGAL with Tributes to both Superhero MMOS and Comics. 

Judging a Group on believed actions of a handful of members seems foolish to me.  Like hating a game community because you heard one person in said community was a jerk.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

pewlagon

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 158
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #295 on: October 26, 2012, 06:43:19 PM »
While I won't be a party to emulator efforts, even playing on  one, I won't judge anyone trying. However, caution should be put in place to anyone playing on an emulator. NcSoft shuts them down and does look for them. To me this is the biggest problem with emulators and why I won't risk my time utilizing one.

I want to be a part of something new and that is where Titan and Plan Z come in. However, like Ms. Lackey I am waiting until the tax write-off portion of the year is finished before I fully give up on the save CoH movement. I will lend my literary support when we get down to writing, but as of right now I'm still in a holding pattern. November 30th may be the end of a NcSoft run CoH, but it shouldn't be the end of the movement.

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #296 on: October 26, 2012, 11:31:45 PM »
I'm sure most people gave up on NCsoft change of heart.

If there is an emulator being made it must NOT BE CONNECTED TO TITAN NETWORK!  If your working on one and the Plan Z operations... ask yourself this do you want to give NCsoft ammo to take Plan z away from us via Lawsuit?

If you want the emulator leave.  If you want Plan Z to go ahead and working on the emulator STOP.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Joshex

  • [citation needed]
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,027
    • my talk page
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #297 on: November 11, 2012, 06:07:40 AM »
I'll settle for the emulated private server when it's up. no offense to plan Z.

fact is if the private server is free or donation based NCSoft can't do much about it, especially if they close their own game.

on another note, theres a patent rule for videogames, after 7 years from the last game made of a certain series the rights are relinquished.

so in 7 years if NCSoft doens;t make another city of heroes game or restart this one then they open up the window for private servers to make money off of it.

so basically they have 7 years to sell/do something with the IP, if not then we get it for free.

I'm not actually helping much with plan Z any more.. got my own game titles working.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

GuyPerfect

  • Mary Poppins
  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #298 on: November 11, 2012, 06:02:24 PM »
fact is if the private server is free or donation based NCSoft can't do much about it, especially if they close their own game.

What tends to happen with this sort of thing is that if the amateur project doesn't close up shop when the IP holder tells them to, the IP holder will attempt to prosecute under some presumptions of copyright infringement, intellectual property theft or any number of other provably inapplicable crimes. However, the fledgeling volunteer-supported project won't have the funds to combat the bogus court case, won't be able to represent themselves in whatever district the IP holder decides on (the internet is a pretty broad region), and the IP holder will consequently win by default.

Even though it's not illegal, a private server for some commercial game that closes down CAN still be forced to pay a fine, if not receive some other harsher punishment.

on another note, theres a patent rule for videogames, after 7 years from the last game made of a certain series the rights are relinquished.

so in 7 years if NCSoft doens;t make another city of heroes game or restart this one then they open up the window for private servers to make money off of it.

so basically they have 7 years to sell/do something with the IP, if not then we get it for free.

First things first, this is simply not true. To gain some insight, I did some searching around to find something related to patents/copyright/intellectual property/trademarks of video games relating to the magic 7 year number. The best I could find was reference to copyrights to published works starting in 1996 that last for the lifetime of the "principal director", plus another 70 years after that. It could be you're misremembering what you heard.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
« Reply #299 on: November 12, 2012, 06:19:35 AM »
I'll settle for the emulated private server when it's up. no offense to plan Z.

fact is if the private server is free or donation based NCSoft can't do much about it, especially if they close their own game.

on another note, theres a patent rule for videogames, after 7 years from the last game made of a certain series the rights are relinquished.

so in 7 years if NCSoft doens;t make another city of heroes game or restart this one then they open up the window for private servers to make money off of it.

so basically they have 7 years to sell/do something with the IP, if not then we get it for free.

I'm not actually helping much with plan Z any more.. got my own game titles working.


Dont think 7 years is true or elsemany video games would of been free game (no pun intended) a long time ago.

But if the emultor come to fruitation, I hope who ever runs it is mindful of things or else in short notice we'll all be here again angry at NCSoft because they shut down the emulator or something else happened that may not involved NCsoft.

I think Plan Z is good plan but realize games take forever (years in many cases) to make and plan even when working with a full blown studio, and millions of dollars in budget wit ha team of 40 or so professional devs and different departments to handle art work, storylines, marketing, software, graphics, organization, PR, HR, office cleaner, testers, drink fetchers, the boss, and the likes. Here, it seems to be a skeleton crew an a budget that barely covers a shoestring so I would imagine it will take abou three times to four times as long at a good pace.

Right now it's the honey moon stage, ideas are flowing, people are enthused, determined, but sometimes I worry, although I have faith in them, is about what happens when it down to the nitty gritty buisness aspect, and when it's about a year or so in the project will they have the will to finish. I think so but if not I wont think any less of them as taking on the task of creating a whole new game is not for the light hearted. It looks harder than building a car from a pile of metal to Rolls-Royce specs on a Yugo budget.