Author Topic: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft  (Read 31039 times)

Memorandum

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B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« on: January 29, 2013, 01:23:31 PM »
Live is funny, isn't it? Seems their company changement went into the total wrong direction. That will happen if you bet onto the wrong horse and do not understand in any way, what your customers want.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/01/archeage-ncsoft-titles-kept-at-bay-for-2nd-week-running/

I would really laugh if they revive COH (we all know it won't happen, they will sink the boat completely before changing a decision once made, but well...). As I said: Some people only understand when there is a big hole in their pocket.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 01:38:46 PM by Memorandum »

Knightslayer

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 01:54:25 PM »
You may also enjoy this then ArcheAge & Trion join forces

Quote
Jake Song:  We started developing ArcheAge with global service in mind.  During my stay with NCsoft, I worked a couple of years out of the LA and Austin office with American colleagues.  I had a chance to experience the North American market first hand as well as work with American developers.

Colette

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 06:17:51 PM »
"I would really laugh if they revive COH."

Won't happen, not least because they savagely burned their bridges. I'm sure they hope the CoH community will evaporate.

Then again, they have behaved so erratically, who knows what they might do?

FatherXmas

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 08:51:54 PM »
Live is funny, isn't it? Seems their company changement went into the total wrong direction. That will happen if you bet onto the wrong horse and do not understand in any way, what your customers want.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/01/archeage-ncsoft-titles-kept-at-bay-for-2nd-week-running/

I would really laugh if they revive COH (we all know it won't happen, they will sink the boat completely before changing a decision once made, but well...). As I said: Some people only understand when there is a big hole in their pocket.

Ooo, thanks.  I was able to go to the source and find this page (translation required, use chrome) which is an interactive version of that chart.

The second tab is weekly ratings and the third tab is monthly.

Looking at the last three months, which would be the 4th quarter, NCsoft's "big 4" are ranked like so.

B&S (2, 2, 3)
Lineage (5, 5, 5)
Aion (7, 7, 9)
Lineage II (14, 14, 14)

I should note that both B&S and Lineage are the top two MMORPGs listed on that chart for each of those three months.  So from a 4th quarter standpoint, I would say NCsoft looks like it's doing alright.

Of course the point of the story is that in January, a "New Challenger Appears" with ArcheAge, which is also rated like B&S as 19+.


 
Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle.  :roll:   :-[   :roll:    :o   :roll:  ;D

Also note that after ArcheAge, the next three MMORPGs are Lineage, B&S and Aion.  So while we may not enjoy Lineage or Aion, both those games are top tier in Korea.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:06:00 PM by FatherXmas »
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Ironwolf

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 09:25:11 PM »

JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 09:57:27 PM »
Also note that after ArcheAge, the next three MMORPGs are Lineage, B&S and Aion.  So while we may not enjoy Lineage or Aion, both those games are top tier in Korea.

Yeah I dont think COX have or would have made that list today (if it was up and running still in Korea). I;'m not sure of it's ranking when it was running and released there in Korea. Word of mouth is that it didnt do too well over there and even if running Aion Lineage B&S and the likes would have smashed it in the rankings.

Knight Light

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 10:36:54 PM »
Yeah I dont think COX have or would have made that list today (if it was up and running still in Korea). I;'m not sure of it's ranking when it was running and released there in Korea. Word of mouth is that it didnt do too well over there and even if running Aion Lineage B&S and the likes would have smashed it in the rankings.

That's impossible to estimate, City of Heroes was never released in Korea.

"City of Hero"
A Korean open beta of City of Heroes, entitled City of Hero (시티 오브 히어로, Siti Obeu Hieoro), was launched on January 18, 2006. However, the game's official release was cancelled. The Korean CoH team directed its players to a coupon for an account on the US servers as compensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_hero#City_of_Hero

My guess is that those pigheaded visionless idiots at NCSoft simply decided it wouldn't work there.

FatherXmas

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 10:43:09 PM »
Or more likely the feedback from the beta indicated that the players in Korea didn't enjoy the game. 

Do you blame them, from the bait and switch of the promo video that showed a sword/pistol combo and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?  Tact on the lack of Asian faces in the CC as well as Mirror Spirit's missing dual side split coat as a costume piece, I wouldn't be all that excited either.

Also our outfits never looked that good relative to the video.  Most of ours at the time (remember 2006, just after CoV came out) were fairly flat and simply looked painted on.  This was before ultra mode or any of the "traditional" Asian outfit fair that came along much, much later.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:57:15 PM by FatherXmas »
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Knight Light

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 10:57:57 PM »
Or more likely the feedback from the alpha indicated that the players in Korea didn't enjoy the game. 

Do you blame them, from the bait and switch of the promo video that showed Foreshadow's sword/pistol combo and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?  Tact on the lack of Asian faces in the CC as well as Mirror Spirit's missing crotch cape as a costume piece I wouldn't be all that excited either.

Is that your opinion or are those really the reasons? They really don't sound like insurmountable obstacles. No game looks like its FMVs. City of Heroes had the best capes of any game in the world, adding one more would have been no big deal and neither would have adding more Asian faces. All you're saying to me is that NCSoft is indeed visionless.

So yeah, I do blame them. Just one f up after another with them.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 11:03:14 PM »
Yeah, considering how much got changed in Diablo 3 between test marketing and the final product? Yeah, just ditching the whole idea is a waste.

But really, I think the odds are much greater that the game didn't work, because it didn't mesh with Korea's OMGZPVPEVERYTHINGIPWNEDJOONOOB opinion on what an MMO is. I'm pretty sure the closest you can get to RP in mainstream MMOing out there is teabagging a corpse. CoH, while it has plenty of violence, isn't really about conflict. It isn't hack&slash that kept this community going for so long. It's the camaraderie. That doesn't really work in a PvP-centric environment. PvP is much more primal.

JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 11:05:42 PM »
That's impossible to estimate, City of Heroes was never released in Korea.

"City of Hero"
A Korean open beta of City of Heroes, entitled City of Hero (시티 오브 히어로, Siti Obeu Hieoro), was launched on January 18, 2006. However, the game's official release was cancelled. The Korean CoH team directed its players to a coupon for an account on the US servers as compensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_hero#City_of_Hero

My guess is that those pigheaded visionless idiots at NCSoft simply decided it wouldn't work there.

When ai meant released I didnt mean as in finalized. I'm talking about from beta, the time players were actually able to get on and play in some form or fashion. I was saying that if it went beyong beta and continued to run until this day.

My estimation stemmed from given that it was canceled and didnt even make it past beta stage, it probably was an indication that it wasnt going too well and thus even if they ignored that and released it anyways, I doubt all of a sudden people would flock to it and put it on the list.


Usually how well or not well beta testing go is an indication of how well it might do live. The whole purpose of an open beta while fixing any bugs that arises and ironing out the kinks that may have been missed during closed beta and alpha testing. But yeah I was just guessing, judging from that it did get canceled and didnt make it to the live stage is never a good sign. As far as we know, if poor beta results is irrelevant, then probably 1,000s of games that could have had over 9 million subscriptions may have been killed off. Who knows. They never made it past open beta stage.

Knight Light

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 11:08:34 PM »
Oh and if they didn't think to add more Asian faces for City of Hero, that just indicates to me that they don't even know their own market and I'm gonna start attributing the success of any of their games besides City of Heroes to the phenomenon know as "failing upwards".

JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 11:13:24 PM »

But really, I think the odds are much greater that the game didn't work, because it didn't mesh with Korea's OMGZPVPEVERYTHINGIPWNEDJOONOOB opinion on what an MMO is.
 

This is probably the reason or one of the main reasons. Different things in games tend to attract different crowds and players. What is an excellent hit in Canada can be a total flop in Brazil.




I'm pretty sure the closest you can get to RP in mainstream MMOing out there is teabagging a corpse. CoH, while it has plenty of violence, isn't really about conflict. It isn't hack&slash that kept this community going for so long. It's the camaraderie. That doesn't really work in a PvP-centric environment. PvP is much more primal.

Yeah I noticed during my stint in Korea although over a decade ago, PvP games were king in the inet cafes. Maybe it changed alot since then but back then, not many co-op centric games got much play nor made it to the list of many of the inet cafes where much of the gaming action took and maybe still take place there. Maybe things have changed.  Although I never noticed any tea bagging until I got back to the states. I thought tea bag was a US gamer made taunt? What are the true origins of this crazy taunt.

FatherXmas

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 11:15:35 PM »
Is that your opinion or are those really the reasons? They really don't sound like insurmountable obstacles. No game looks like its FMVs. City of Heroes had the best capes of any game in the world, adding one more would have been no big deal and neither would have adding more Asian faces. All you're saying to me is that NCSoft is indeed visionless.

So yeah, I do blame them. Just one f up after another with them.

No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

And what if the problem was a gameplay issue.  Maybe Korean players hated rooting more than we did.  They may prefer a more action oriented playstyle.  And then there's the whole PvP 800lbs gorilla.  PvP seems to be very important in MMOs in Korea and what we had at the time was patchwork and confusing at best.

So whatever the reason, the beta didn't test well and NCsoft decided not to finish the port because of that.  I don't fault them for now spending their money on finishing something that didn't look like it would be a worthy investment.
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JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 11:17:28 PM »
Oh and if they didn't think to add more Asian faces for City of Hero, that just indicates to me that they don't even know their own market and I'm gonna start attributing the success of any of their games besides City of Heroes to the phenomenon know as "failing upwards".

Hmm that is a very interesting concept.

Although, given that many of there games, even on this forum, has been stated to be focused on their Asian market with out thinking about American gamers, it seems they have the knowledge on their own market pretty well down packed. But at the time of that beta testing it was over 6 years ago and maybe at the time they was clueless.

You might be on to something there. Although out of curiosity in that theory, I noticed you excluded COH from the phenomenon. Why so?

Colette

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 01:02:30 AM »
"Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle."

Ohkay, show of hands... if that image turned up on your work computer, would you get fired?

JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 01:07:03 AM »
"Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle."

Ohkay, show of hands... if that image turned up on your work computer, would you get fired?

I wouldnt get fired but probably get sent to some EO class.

But this shot seems pretty generic as the same shot can be repeated in just about any game with females and skirts including many shots from COX and CO and the result will be the same.

I think who ever took that pic is just being a nasty butt.

Knight Light

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 01:09:41 AM »
No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

Whoa, back the truck up, Cryptic wasn't hired by Marvel until the end of that year. The first time I heard about Marvel Universe Online was around 1999. I would periodically check what was going on with it only to find very little progress had been made. The Wikipedia entry on Marvel Universe Online lacks a lot of information because that game passed through the hands of a number studios until Marvel, finally fed up of not having any results, took the game to the guys they tried to sue. This was nearing the end of 2006. I can't really say when Microsoft came into the picture.

The Wikipedia entry on "City of Hero" is the extent of the data I have on that but, while the game would likely have been under the Cryptic banner due to the engine, I'm fairly certain "City of Hero" had it's own development team in Korea separate from the Freem 15. Knowing how short they keep the leash on their subsidiaries, do you really think NCSoft would have entrusted a release into their own market to "foreigners"? Even a simple language port? If you have data that concludes that it was entirely in the hands of the U.S. team, please correct me.

Given recent history, I'm far from convinced that NCSoft has any idea what does or does not constitute a worthy investment. Of course, it's very difficult to see with your head clear up your ass.

You might be on to something there. Although out of curiosity in that theory, I noticed you excluded COH from the phenomenon. Why so?

Because City of Heroes had something. I can't put my finger on it. Put aside the fact that CoH has the greatest gaming community in the history of mankind; other games are online, other games have chat systems, other games have character creators, other games have super heroes, etc. Of course, no other game did these things quite as well as City of Heroes, but they still have these things.

Except for the PvP, which I was never really a fan of, as video games go; City of Heroes was the most elegant tool I have come across.

There is a pile of NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, DS, PSOne, PS2, PS3 and PC games currently at my feet that is a testament to the notion that no other game in the world can provide for me what CoH did in a single package and I don't think I'm the only one feeling this. At some point during development, CoH was going to be a success pretty much no matter what. It could have been a WoW killer; the only thing Warcraft has is that the gameplay itself is addictive, besides that the game is utter garbage (That's a character creator?! Ha!). I'm of the opinion that NCSoft thoroughly failed City of Heroes as a publisher and I've seen enough that I can't be swayed from that opinion even at gunpoint. I'd rather take the bullet than say that NCSoft knew what they were doing. City of Heroes has everything you could want in an MMO. I can't say the same of any other game I know of.

However, the most likely reason why I excluded City of Heroes is because;

It's home.

I miss it. Besides CoH, there's only one other thing in the world that I miss more and nothing is making it okay.








It's been a very long 60 days. (yes, I've been counting them.)




« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:05:08 AM by Knight Light »

JaguarX

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 01:16:13 AM »

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: B&S seems not to safe NCSoft
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2013, 01:47:51 AM »
No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

Almost makes it sound like they were just trying to make a quick buck off CoH. Buy the game, tweak it as little as possible, and essentially, launch a new game in Korea with no development cost. And when they realized they'd have to alter more to get it to work, decided it wasn't worth the cost or time.