B&S seems not to safe NCSoft

[Memorandum]

Live is funny, isn't it? Seems their company changement went into the total wrong direction. That will happen if you bet onto the wrong horse and do not understand in any way, what your customers want.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/01/archeage-ncsoft-titles-kept-at-bay-for-2nd-week-running/

I would really laugh if they revive COH (we all know it won't happen, they will sink the boat completely before changing a decision once made, but well...). As I said: Some people only understand when there is a big hole in their pocket.

[Knightslayer]

You may also enjoy this then ArcheAge & Trion join forces

Jake Song:  We started developing ArcheAge with global service in mind.  During my stay with NCsoft, I worked a couple of years out of the LA and Austin office with American colleagues.  I had a chance to experience the North American market first hand as well as work with American developers.

[Colette]

"I would really laugh if they revive COH."

Won't happen, not least because they savagely burned their bridges. I'm sure they hope the CoH community will evaporate.

Then again, they have behaved so erratically, who knows what they might do?

[FatherXmas]

Live is funny, isn't it? Seems their company changement went into the total wrong direction. That will happen if you bet onto the wrong horse and do not understand in any way, what your customers want.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/01/archeage-ncsoft-titles-kept-at-bay-for-2nd-week-running/

I would really laugh if they revive COH (we all know it won't happen, they will sink the boat completely before changing a decision once made, but well...). As I said: Some people only understand when there is a big hole in their pocket.

Ooo, thanks.  I was able to go to the source and find this page (translation required, use chrome) which is an interactive version of that chart.

The second tab is weekly ratings and the third tab is monthly.

Looking at the last three months, which would be the 4th quarter, NCsoft's "big 4" are ranked like so.

B&S (2, 2, 3)
Lineage (5, 5, 5)
Aion (7, 7, 9)
Lineage II (14, 14, 14)

I should note that both B&S and Lineage are the top two MMORPGs listed on that chart for each of those three months.  So from a 4th quarter standpoint, I would say NCsoft looks like it's doing alright.

Of course the point of the story is that in January, a "New Challenger Appears" with ArcheAge, which is also rated like B&S as 19+.


 
Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle.                

Also note that after ArcheAge, the next three MMORPGs are Lineage, B&S and Aion.  So while we may not enjoy Lineage or Aion, both those games are top tier in Korea.

[Ironwolf]

ArchAge just flipped to Trion:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/572/feature/7069

[JaguarX]

Also note that after ArcheAge, the next three MMORPGs are Lineage, B&S and Aion.  So while we may not enjoy Lineage or Aion, both those games are top tier in Korea.

Yeah I dont think COX have or would have made that list today (if it was up and running still in Korea). I;'m not sure of it's ranking when it was running and released there in Korea. Word of mouth is that it didnt do too well over there and even if running Aion Lineage B&S and the likes would have smashed it in the rankings.

[Knight Light]

Yeah I dont think COX have or would have made that list today (if it was up and running still in Korea). I;'m not sure of it's ranking when it was running and released there in Korea. Word of mouth is that it didnt do too well over there and even if running Aion Lineage B&S and the likes would have smashed it in the rankings.

That's impossible to estimate, City of Heroes was never released in Korea.

"City of Hero"
A Korean open beta of City of Heroes, entitled City of Hero (시티 오브 히어로, Siti Obeu Hieoro), was launched on January 18, 2006. However, the game's official release was cancelled. The Korean CoH team directed its players to a coupon for an account on the US servers as compensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_hero#City_of_Hero

My guess is that those pigheaded visionless idiots at NCSoft simply decided it wouldn't work there.

[FatherXmas]

Or more likely the feedback from the beta indicated that the players in Korea didn't enjoy the game. 

Do you blame them, from the bait and switch of the promo video that showed a sword/pistol combo and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?  Tact on the lack of Asian faces in the CC as well as Mirror Spirit's missing dual side split coat as a costume piece, I wouldn't be all that excited either.

Also our outfits never looked that good relative to the video.  Most of ours at the time (remember 2006, just after CoV came out) were fairly flat and simply looked painted on.  This was before ultra mode or any of the "traditional" Asian outfit fair that came along much, much later.

[Knight Light]

Or more likely the feedback from the alpha indicated that the players in Korea didn't enjoy the game. 

Do you blame them, from the bait and switch of the promo video that showed Foreshadow's sword/pistol combo and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?  Tact on the lack of Asian faces in the CC as well as Mirror Spirit's missing crotch cape as a costume piece I wouldn't be all that excited either.

Is that your opinion or are those really the reasons? They really don't sound like insurmountable obstacles. No game looks like its FMVs. City of Heroes had the best capes of any game in the world, adding one more would have been no big deal and neither would have adding more Asian faces. All you're saying to me is that NCSoft is indeed visionless.

So yeah, I do blame them. Just one f up after another with them.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Yeah, considering how much got changed in Diablo 3 between test marketing and the final product? Yeah, just ditching the whole idea is a waste.

But really, I think the odds are much greater that the game didn't work, because it didn't mesh with Korea's OMGZPVPEVERYTHINGIPWNEDJOONOOB opinion on what an MMO is. I'm pretty sure the closest you can get to RP in mainstream MMOing out there is teabagging a corpse. CoH, while it has plenty of violence, isn't really about conflict. It isn't hack&slash that kept this community going for so long. It's the camaraderie. That doesn't really work in a PvP-centric environment. PvP is much more primal.

[JaguarX]

That's impossible to estimate, City of Heroes was never released in Korea.

"City of Hero"
A Korean open beta of City of Heroes, entitled City of Hero (시티 오브 히어로, Siti Obeu Hieoro), was launched on January 18, 2006. However, the game's official release was cancelled. The Korean CoH team directed its players to a coupon for an account on the US servers as compensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_hero#City_of_Hero

My guess is that those pigheaded visionless idiots at NCSoft simply decided it wouldn't work there.

When ai meant released I didnt mean as in finalized. I'm talking about from beta, the time players were actually able to get on and play in some form or fashion. I was saying that if it went beyong beta and continued to run until this day.

My estimation stemmed from given that it was canceled and didnt even make it past beta stage, it probably was an indication that it wasnt going too well and thus even if they ignored that and released it anyways, I doubt all of a sudden people would flock to it and put it on the list.


Usually how well or not well beta testing go is an indication of how well it might do live. The whole purpose of an open beta while fixing any bugs that arises and ironing out the kinks that may have been missed during closed beta and alpha testing. But yeah I was just guessing, judging from that it did get canceled and didnt make it to the live stage is never a good sign. As far as we know, if poor beta results is irrelevant, then probably 1,000s of games that could have had over 9 million subscriptions may have been killed off. Who knows. They never made it past open beta stage.

[Knight Light]

Oh and if they didn't think to add more Asian faces for City of Hero, that just indicates to me that they don't even know their own market and I'm gonna start attributing the success of any of their games besides City of Heroes to the phenomenon know as "failing upwards".

[JaguarX]

But really, I think the odds are much greater that the game didn't work, because it didn't mesh with Korea's OMGZPVPEVERYTHINGIPWNEDJOONOOB opinion on what an MMO is.

 

This is probably the reason or one of the main reasons. Different things in games tend to attract different crowds and players. What is an excellent hit in Canada can be a total flop in Brazil.

I'm pretty sure the closest you can get to RP in mainstream MMOing out there is teabagging a corpse. CoH, while it has plenty of violence, isn't really about conflict. It isn't hack&slash that kept this community going for so long. It's the camaraderie. That doesn't really work in a PvP-centric environment. PvP is much more primal.

Yeah I noticed during my stint in Korea although over a decade ago, PvP games were king in the inet cafes. Maybe it changed alot since then but back then, not many co-op centric games got much play nor made it to the list of many of the inet cafes where much of the gaming action took and maybe still take place there. Maybe things have changed.  Although I never noticed any tea bagging until I got back to the states. I thought tea bag was a US gamer made taunt? What are the true origins of this crazy taunt.

[FatherXmas]

Is that your opinion or are those really the reasons? They really don't sound like insurmountable obstacles. No game looks like its FMVs. City of Heroes had the best capes of any game in the world, adding one more would have been no big deal and neither would have adding more Asian faces. All you're saying to me is that NCSoft is indeed visionless.

So yeah, I do blame them. Just one f up after another with them.

No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

And what if the problem was a gameplay issue.  Maybe Korean players hated rooting more than we did.  They may prefer a more action oriented playstyle.  And then there's the whole PvP 800lbs gorilla.  PvP seems to be very important in MMOs in Korea and what we had at the time was patchwork and confusing at best.

So whatever the reason, the beta didn't test well and NCsoft decided not to finish the port because of that.  I don't fault them for now spending their money on finishing something that didn't look like it would be a worthy investment.

[JaguarX]

Oh and if they didn't think to add more Asian faces for City of Hero, that just indicates to me that they don't even know their own market and I'm gonna start attributing the success of any of their games besides City of Heroes to the phenomenon know as "failing upwards".

Hmm that is a very interesting concept.

Although, given that many of there games, even on this forum, has been stated to be focused on their Asian market with out thinking about American gamers, it seems they have the knowledge on their own market pretty well down packed. But at the time of that beta testing it was over 6 years ago and maybe at the time they was clueless.

You might be on to something there. Although out of curiosity in that theory, I noticed you excluded COH from the phenomenon. Why so?

[Colette]

"Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle."

Ohkay, show of hands... if that image turned up on your work computer, would you get fired?

[JaguarX]

"Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle."

Ohkay, show of hands... if that image turned up on your work computer, would you get fired?

I wouldnt get fired but probably get sent to some EO class.

But this shot seems pretty generic as the same shot can be repeated in just about any game with females and skirts including many shots from COX and CO and the result will be the same.

I think who ever took that pic is just being a nasty butt.

[Knight Light]

No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

Whoa, back the truck up, Cryptic wasn't hired by Marvel until the end of that year. The first time I heard about Marvel Universe Online was around 1999. I would periodically check what was going on with it only to find very little progress had been made. The Wikipedia entry on Marvel Universe Online lacks a lot of information because that game passed through the hands of a number studios until Marvel, finally fed up of not having any results, took the game to the guys they tried to sue. This was nearing the end of 2006. I can't really say when Microsoft came into the picture.

The Wikipedia entry on "City of Hero" is the extent of the data I have on that but, while the game would likely have been under the Cryptic banner due to the engine, I'm fairly certain "City of Hero" had it's own development team in Korea separate from the Freem 15. Knowing how short they keep the leash on their subsidiaries, do you really think NCSoft would have entrusted a release into their own market to "foreigners"? Even a simple language port? If you have data that concludes that it was entirely in the hands of the U.S. team, please correct me.

Given recent history, I'm far from convinced that NCSoft has any idea what does or does not constitute a worthy investment. Of course, it's very difficult to see with your head clear up your ass.

You might be on to something there. Although out of curiosity in that theory, I noticed you excluded COH from the phenomenon. Why so?

Because City of Heroes had something. I can't put my finger on it. Put aside the fact that CoH has the greatest gaming community in the history of mankind; other games are online, other games have chat systems, other games have character creators, other games have super heroes, etc. Of course, no other game did these things quite as well as City of Heroes, but they still have these things.

Except for the PvP, which I was never really a fan of, as video games go; City of Heroes was the most elegant tool I have come across.

There is a pile of NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, DS, PSOne, PS2, PS3 and PC games currently at my feet that is a testament to the notion that no other game in the world can provide for me what CoH did in a single package and I don't think I'm the only one feeling this. At some point during development, CoH was going to be a success pretty much no matter what. It could have been a WoW killer; the only thing Warcraft has is that the gameplay itself is addictive, besides that the game is utter garbage (That's a character creator?! Ha!). I'm of the opinion that NCSoft thoroughly failed City of Heroes as a publisher and I've seen enough that I can't be swayed from that opinion even at gunpoint. I'd rather take the bullet than say that NCSoft knew what they were doing. City of Heroes has everything you could want in an MMO. I can't say the same of any other game I know of.

However, the most likely reason why I excluded City of Heroes is because;

It's home.

I miss it. Besides CoH, there's only one other thing in the world that I miss more and nothing is making it okay.








It's been a very long 60 days. (yes, I've been counting them.)

[JaguarX]

Well alright then.

[TimtheEnchanter]

No, my reason is that it didn't beta well.  Period.  For what reason, I can only speculate (which I did).  And while costume and faces aren't insurmountable they will cost time and money to correct.  This was before NCsoft bought the Freem 15 from Cryptic.  As it was the team working on CoH/CoV didn't have the manpower to even get Issue 7 out in a timely fashion (it took 8 months), do you think at the time Cryptic was interested in slaving off another couple of artists to knock out some better faces and "eastern" costume parts?  It seemed Cryptic were more interested in keeping NCsoft from finding out about the Marvel MMO they were secretly working on.  Other than some "local" signature characters being designed, it was just a language port.

Almost makes it sound like they were just trying to make a quick buck off CoH. Buy the game, tweak it as little as possible, and essentially, launch a new game in Korea with no development cost. And when they realized they'd have to alter more to get it to work, decided it wasn't worth the cost or time.

[Mistress Urd]

Because City of Heroes had something. I can't put my finger on it. Put aside the fact that CoH has the greatest gaming community in the history of mankind; other games are online, other games have chat systems, other games have character creators, other games have super heroes, etc. Of course, no other game did these things quite as well as City of Heroes, but they still have these things.

Except for the PvP, which I was never really a fan of, as video games go; City of Heroes was the most elegant tool I have come across.

There is a pile of NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, DS, PSOne, PS2, PS3 and PC games currently at my feet that is a testament to the notion that no other game in the world can provide for me what CoH did in a single package and I don't think I'm the only one feeling this. At some point during development, CoH was going to be a success pretty much no matter what. It could have been a WoW killer; the only thing Warcraft has is that the gameplay itself is addictive, besides that the game is utter garbage (That's a character creator?! Ha!). I'm of the opinion that NCSoft thoroughly failed City of Heroes as a publisher and I've seen enough that I can't be swayed from that opinion even at gunpoint. I'd rather take the bullet than say that NCSoft knew what they were doing. City of Heroes has everything you could want in an MMO. I can't say the same of any other game I know of.

However, the most likely reason why I excluded City of Heroes is because;

It's home.

I miss it. Besides CoH, there's only one other thing in the world that miss more and nothing is making it okay.


It's been a very long 60 days. (yes, I've been counting them.)

Yep, I certainly miss CoH too. Its not that City of Heroes was the best at everything (its easy to find games that did 1 or 2 things better) but it did so many things well. The community in CoH was generally very good and helpful.

I know I won't be buying any games from that 6 letter company and I will tell people to avoid them until us CoH fans can have a BBQ celebrating the 6 letter company bankruptcy.

[Twisted Toon]

Yep, I certainly miss CoH too. Its not that City of Heroes was the best at everything (its easy to find games that did 1 or 2 things better) but it did so many things well. The community in CoH was generally very good and helpful.

I know I won't be buying any games from that 6 letter company and I will tell people to avoid them until us CoH fans can have a BBQ celebrating the 6 letter company bankruptcy.

So, what you're saying is that CoH was the Duct Tape of the MMO world. It did pretty much everything adequately (except, maybe, PvP), but was a master of none.
Taken as a whole, though, the game was better than most, if not all, of the others out there.

Excuse me while I go make a lean-to, a hammock, and a canoe from Duct Tape. 

[Knight Light]

So, what you're saying is that CoH was the Duct Tape of the MMO world. It did pretty much everything adequately (except, maybe, PvP), but was a master of none.
Taken as a whole, though, the game was better than most, if not all, of the others out there.

Oh no, City of Heroes was certainly master of a few things. Didn't win 6 Guinness World Records for nothing, don'tcha know.

Right off the top of my head; capes. No other game in the world has done the phenomenon of capes as well as City of Heroes did, they were a spectacle. The capes in DC Universe Online aren't terrible, but the game as a whole is a crime against programming. Champions Online capes are hideous to fugly degrees.

The friends list and Global system, it was as intuitive as it was elegant. DC's is a joke and Champions is so stupid that they messed up something as simple as "Hide". When a character was hidden in CoH and logged out as hidden, it would give no indication of the character coming online when logging back in. In Champions, every time you log in, every person on your friends list receives a notification across their screen that "so and so" has logged in and again when you log out. If you hide a character, when you log it back, the system still sends the notification to your friends list but then immediately sends the notification of logging out, essentially defeating the purpose. It's not really hiding if everyone knows you're hiding. This is the digital equivalent of a large person standing behind a thin tree..

City of Heroes as an application was incredibly versatile and adaptable. Throughout my 8 years living in Paragon City, I played the game the entire time using a Playstation 2 gamepad, the only thing I needed the mouse for was insps. You could map any function to just about anything very easily. I believe most people don't even know that it was possible for players to make custom right-click menus with any powers you wanted, essentially giving you nearly infinite power tray space. In Champions, when I attempted to change an Alt trigger button on my gamepad into a "Next Target" button, I was told there was no way to do it from in game, I would have to dive into the system files and change it by messing around in there.

These and so many other reasons are why City of Heroes is above the bar by which all games should be measured.

[FatherXmas]

Almost makes it sound like they were just trying to make a quick buck off CoH. Buy the game, tweak it as little as possible, and essentially, launch a new game in Korea with no development cost. And when they realized they'd have to alter more to get it to work, decided it wasn't worth the cost or time.

NCsoft hadn't bought the game yet.  It was still Cryptic's baby but I suppose NCsoft asked Cryptic to knock off an adaptation for the Asian market and that was what was delivered for beta testing (plus the standalone CC to create some buzz).

[Osborn]

Or more likely the feedback from the beta indicated that the players in Korea didn't enjoy the game. 

Do you blame them, from the bait and switch of the promo video that showed a sword/pistol combo and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?  Tact on the lack of Asian faces in the CC as well as Mirror Spirit's missing dual side split coat as a costume piece, I wouldn't be all that excited either.

Also our outfits never looked that good relative to the video.  Most of ours at the time (remember 2006, just after CoV came out) were fairly flat and simply looked painted on.  This was before ultra mode or any of the "traditional" Asian outfit fair that came along much, much later.

Our ad videos were more or less taken from the game, though stylized like an anime action cartoon with flourishes, but you could point out to anything done and tell what power set it was from, for the most part. Even if super strength could never punch a Tank Swiper 30 feet into a wall.

In our Villains trailer, we had the random Asian guy from the City of Hero trailer but instead of him having gun + sword with lightning and liquid teleports, he had martial arts with the same sound effects used in the game when he kicks an Arachnos soldier in the skull. That's something you could do in the game.

Heck, even Synapse's super speed had the same 'yellow orange firey blur on my feet' thing in the US trailer.

The City of Hero Korean trailer lied about the game, straight up. There was basically nothing in that whole trailer that was actually IN the game, except Statesman.

[FatherXmas]

"Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle."

Ohkay, show of hands... if that image turned up on your work computer, would you get fired?

Oops.  Mental note, don't link to the first interesting picture when you Google ArcheAge and click on images.  Even though I found that picture in the ArcheAge screenshot page at MMORPG.COM, it's actually a shot from an MMORPG called Continent of the Ninth Seal (also called C9 or C9S).

Mea culpa.

However the game is still rated 19+ in Korea.

[JaguarX]

Our ad videos were more or less taken from the game, though stylized like an anime action cartoon with flourishes, but you could point out to anything done and tell what power set it was from, for the most part. Even if super strength could never punch a Tank Swiper 30 feet into a wall.

In our Villains trailer, we had the random Asian guy from the City of Hero trailer but instead of him having gun + sword with lightning and liquid teleports, he had martial arts with the same sound effects used in the game when he kicks an Arachnos soldier in the skull. That's something you could do in the game.

Heck, even Synapse's super speed had the same 'yellow orange firey blur on my feet' thing in the US trailer.

The City of Hero Korean trailer lied about the game, straight up. There was basically nothing in that whole trailer that was actually IN the game, except Statesman.

Hmmm, it seems both trailers took some liberty about the stuff.The Asian trailer is little bit "interesting" to say the least. In the end though, a little lie or a total lie is still a lie. Neither trailer was totally truthful about the content or game play (the trailers from 2006 Korean version and one of 2007 US version. So this is like someone that told a small lie (US trailer) saying how horrible the other one is for lying (Korean trailer) when in the end they both are liars.  Although I did find one trailer from 2004 that seemed to be taken directly from game play.

[Mistress Urd]

Oh no, City of Heroes was certainly master of a few things. Didn't win 6 Guinness World Records for nothing, don'tcha know.

Right off the top of my head; capes. No other game in the world has done the phenomenon of capes as well as City of Heroes did, they were a spectacle. The capes in DC Universe Online aren't terrible, but the game as a whole is a crime against programming. Champions Online capes are hideous to fugly degrees.

The friends list and Global system, it was as intuitive as it was elegant. DC's is a joke and Champions is so stupid that they messed up something as simple as "Hide". When a character was hidden in CoH and logged out as hidden, it would give no indication of the character coming online when logging back in. In Champions, every time you log in, every person on your friends list receives a notification across their screen that "so and so" has logged in and again when you log out. If you hide a character, when you log it back, the system still sends the notification to your friends list but then immediately sends the notification of logging out, essentially defeating the purpose. It's not really hiding if everyone knows you're hiding. This is the digital equivalent of a large person standing behind a thin tree..

City of Heroes as an application was incredibly versatile and adaptable. Throughout my 8 years living in Paragon City, I played the game the entire time using a Playstation 2 gamepad, the only thing I needed the mouse for was insps. You could map any function to just about anything very easily. I believe most people don't even know that it was possible for players to make custom right-click menus with any powers you wanted, essentially giving you nearly infinite power tray space. In Champions, when I attempted to change an Alt trigger button on my gamepad into a "Next Target" button, I was told there was no way to do it from in game, I would have to dive into the system files and change it by messing around in there.

These and so many other reasons are why City of Heroes is above the bar by which all games should be measured.

No question CoH did the superhero Genre very well. However, the costume creator despite some things which you couldn't do, was quite versatile. I saw more than my share of anime characters, RL people, Fantasy and some creative costumes which made me go "how the heck did he do that?"

I don't know if duct tape would be a good description of CoH, I would probably describe CoH as the "Front Wheel Drive" of MMORPGs.

When you play other games and chase the "next great MMO" you will find that its just hard to beat CoH in the end. The new stuff looks shiny but so many nice design considerations you took for granted in CoH simply doesn't exist elsewhere. Was there room for improvement in CoH? Absolutely! We could go a several hundred page tangent of things that would make the CoH experience better.

At least I can go back over some old screen caps and listen to the music that is still on paragon wiki.

[General Idiot]

Oops.  Mental note, don't link to the first interesting picture when you Google ArcheAge and click on images.  Even though I found that picture in the ArcheAge screenshot page at MMORPG.COM, it's actually a shot from an MMORPG called Continent of the Ninth Seal (also called C9 or C9S).

Mea culpa.

However the game is still rated 19+ in Korea.

The fact that neither you nor anyone else here noticed that it was from a different game entirely is pretty telling, though. Korean fantasy MMOs really are that generic.

[Twisted Toon]

I don't know if duct tape would be a good description of CoH, I would probably describe CoH as the "Front Wheel Drive" of MMORPGs.

The reason I used Duct Tape was because of a Myth Busters episode where they were put on a island (Gilligan Island style) with a pallet of Duct Tape as their only item.

From that Duct Tape, they made:
beds
Shelter
water containers
chairs
netting to catch food
a fishing spear
an outrigger with paddles
clothing
a devise to start a fire
bags to carry supplies

They determined that Duct Tape was the single best item to have. Although there are other items that do specific jobs better, Duct Tape does pretty much everything well enough that it is, overall, the better item to have with you. Much like CoH.

There are other programs that do chat better. I like the smilies in The Realm Online, CoH doesn't have that.
there are some parts of the costume creator in CO that I like better than CoH. Although, I like CoH's graphics better.
The Secret World has better graphics than CoH, except for the fingers. Those guys have some freaky looking fingers.

Those are just a few of the things that, in my opinion, other games go better than CoH. However, taking each game as a whole, I prefer CoH over all the rest.

Now, there are a few things that I think CoH did better than any other game out there, that I've played. Such as Teaming, and the global friends list.

[johnrobey]

Of course the point of the story is that in January, a "New Challenger Appears" with ArcheAge, which is also rated like B&S as 19+.


 
Oh boy, new scantily clad women to ogle.                
Also note that after ArcheAge, the next three MMORPGs are Lineage, B&S and Aion.  So while we may not enjoy Lineage or Aion, both those games are top tier in Korea.

Thanks as always FatherXmas and yes, Colette, had that image appeared on my computer at work (where, duh, we were expected to be working, not goofing off) I would have at least gotten in trouble and rec'd a verbal warning or had something put into my personnel file, if not terminated by my employer.

I guess the move forward(?) for MMORPGs is for the industry, as in the jpg image above to embrace a Penthouse or Playboy magazine sensibility.  I can only imagine a Hustler magazine MMORPG sensibility (though honestly I would rather not.)  Guess it's okay now that NCSoft killed my joy in gaming.   Peace.

[johnrobey]

The reason I used Duct Tape was because of a Myth Busters episode where they were put on a island (Gilligan Island style) with a pallet of Duct Tape as their only item.

From that Duct Tape, they made:
beds
Shelter
water containers
chairs
netting to catch food
a fishing spear
an outrigger with paddles
clothing
a devise to start a fire
bags to carry supplies

They determined that Duct Tape was the single best item to have. Although there are other items that do specific jobs better, Duct Tape does pretty much everything well enough that it is, overall, the better item to have with you. Much like CoH.

There are other programs that do chat better. I like the smilies in The Realm Online, CoH doesn't have that.
there are some parts of the costume creator in CO that I like better than CoH. Although, I like CoH's graphics better.
The Secret World has better graphics than CoH, except for the fingers. Those guys have some freaky looking fingers.

Those are just a few of the things that, in my opinion, other games go better than CoH. However, taking each game as a whole, I prefer CoH over all the rest.

Now, there are a few things that I think CoH did better than any other game out there, that I've played. Such as Teaming, and the global friends list.

As has been noted by others long before me, Duct Tape and the Force have much in common; i.e. they both have a light and a dark side!   

[Codewalker]

...and Mirror Spirit moving about by turning to liquid?

That one actually wasn't a lie. Mirror Spirit had that power in game. It was functionally a teleport with custom graphics, and was exceptionally rare to see. Mostly because Mirror Spirit only appeared as a combat NPC in one or two missions fairly off the beaten path (Scirroco's arc according to the wiki), and even then since it's not an attack power she didn't use it very often.

[johnrobey]

(Wondering aloud in print) So would it be a fair characterization to say that NCSoft top executives did not even know How to effectively market CoH in Korea??

P.S. I always thought Mirror Spirit was one of the cooler NPC Signature Characters, but other than Agent Nance's arc where one talks to her, I knew the character of Mirror Spirit only as a hero trainer in one of my favorite zones!  (The Hollows and Faultline zones and arcs were always fun imo!)  I'd never gotten around to Scirocco's arc yet 'cause I mostly played Blue and Gold.

[Codewalker]

(Wondering aloud in print) So would it be a fair characterization to say that NCSoft top executives did not even know How to effectively market CoH in Korea??

I get the distinct impression that the effort that Cryptic put into helping the Korean localization team with City of Hero is about on par with the amount of effort NCSoft put into localizing Aion for the western market. As in, not much.

That and superheroes just aren't very popular in Korean culture. I'm not sure whose idea it was to greenlight that project.

[DarkCurrent]

That one actually wasn't a lie. Mirror Spirit had that power in game. It was functionally a teleport with custom graphics, and was exceptionally rare to see. Mostly because Mirror Spirit only appeared as a combat NPC in one or two missions fairly off the beaten path (Scirroco's arc according to the wiki), and even then since it's not an attack power she didn't use it very often.

She tp'd all over the place with that damned power.  Orenbaga map to boot.  Are you kidding me?  Hated that mission. 

[herostar]

Super heroes may just be something they're not into. They mostly want to play games with little chicks who are all eyes and boobs and carry an oversized swords, mixed in with martial arts.

[JaguarX]

Super heroes may just be something they're not into. They mostly want to play games with little chicks who are all eyes and boobs and carry an oversized swords, mixed in with martial arts.

Now wait a minute now. That statement is not totally true. Oversized swords are not required. 

[johnrobey]

Now wait a minute now. That statement is not totally true. Oversized swords are not required. 

Are you telling me a 4 to 5 inch sword is okay?  And that the only thing that matters is how one wields one's sword?  (HHOK)   

[FatherXmas]

That one actually wasn't a lie. Mirror Spirit had that power in game. It was functionally a teleport with custom graphics, and was exceptionally rare to see. Mostly because Mirror Spirit only appeared as a combat NPC in one or two missions fairly off the beaten path (Scirroco's arc according to the wiki), and even then since it's not an attack power she didn't use it very often.

But it's not a power you can get.  At least that version of t-port.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Now wait a minute now. That statement is not totally true. Oversized swords are not required. 

Pretty sure they are, the moment you show them games with little chicks who are all eyes and boobs.

[Victoria Victrix]

Let's not forget the prominent camel-toe even on "childish" characters.

[FatherXmas]

Blade & Soul cosplayer.

I guess that's the only way to get the freakishly long legs without surgery.

[Victoria Victrix]

Blade & Soul cosplayer.

I guess that's the only way to get the freakishly long legs without surgery.

Just looking at those shoes put my back in a spasm.  Oh honey, in a few years you are so gonna regret that....  (Shoes like that are actually causing girls to spontaneously have ankle fractures and herniated disks).

[Joshex]

Rikti: Advertizing: Humans all: Like Girls: with: few clothes. Must start: with that: premise; then add: action and: Game title.

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Just looking at those shoes put my back in a spasm.  Oh honey, in a few years you are so gonna regret that.... 

Why do people feel the need to hurt themselves over that...  pardon my failure in using the English language, but I don't have words for how much of a travesty Lolicon Simulator 2012 (Pedobear-approved) is.

EDIT: Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I do have appropriate words for this situation.  They're just unsuitable for polite company or small children.  Last time I used language like that, a Klingon emptied the contents of his stomach into a nearby potted plant.

[Knight Light]

Oh, well, if they are unsuitable for polite company, no problem in sending those words to NCSoft's CEO. Send him the potted plant too.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Why do people feel the need to hurt themselves over that...

I could live on this planet for another thousand years, but I would still not understand humans. It all boils down to this. Just about every parent has asked their kid the cliche question, "If everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you do it?" Metaphorically, the answer has been and always will be, yes. The phrase "peer pressure" always gets used during school years as something to resist, but post-graduation, it's just accepted as the way society works (or doesn't work).

[Knightslayer]

Just looking at those shoes put my back in a spasm.  Oh honey, in a few years you are so gonna regret that....  (Shoes like that are actually causing girls to spontaneously have ankle fractures and herniated disks).

I'm guessing that's not her standard shoes, just something for the photoshoot.
Unless she works as a boothbabe or something and spends entire days like that? Not all that familiar with the cosplay scene, I thought it was something a lot of people did just for fun every now and then (kinda like heading to a big LARP event once a year or so).

[houtex]

The heels are very tall... but then these are only, what, about a 1.5-2 inch lift in reality, as they're platforms.  Look at the fronts.

To hear them say it, a 2 inch lift is apparently not a big deal for the women who wear 'em.  I keep asking them "Doesn't that hurt to wear?" and they go "oh, no really isn't.  Very comfy, actually.  I love wearin' them..."  After a while, I got it, and I gave up the questioning.  If they're wearin' them, they're ok/comfortable enough, and I just say "Like the shoes/boots on ya."  I don't get it either, but I do like the way they look on 'em.  All women should wear high freakin' heels for my entertainment.

Oink.

[johnrobey]

Well that's all fine, I guess.  I recall when social customs changed in the late 1960's and thorough the 1970's when a lot of women changed U.S. culture by omitting brassieres, shaving underarms and/or legs, and all or most of the make-up.  (I don't recall the name of the woman who in print during the 70's likened her facial cosmetics to "war paint.")  Personally, I think women look just fine (or even better) without all the beauty shoppe stuff (men also); just reasonably recently washed is fine (imo), and if one has hair for it to be brushed or combed.  However, I am not going to object if a woman or man wants to dress as they like or even wear a pound of cosmetics, provided I can stand upwind of them.   

[Illusionss]

In general: Please do not equivocate those of us who wear cosmetics and care about how we look, to the crap seen in such games as Bits and Tits. They are not equivalent. Taking pride in one's appearance is not a negative thing. I spent a few years in Vermont, and if one likes unshaven, uncosmetic'ed women with two inches of hair-growth under their arms and on their legs, I highly recommend it. Native Vermonters are a very au-naturel bunch; I want to go slather on yet more makeup at the very remembrance of their hairy, green-rubber-galoshes-wearing selves - and yes, I refer to the women. Its like another planet compared to the rest of the US.

Houtex: To hear them say it, a 2 inch lift is apparently not a big deal for the women who wear 'em.  I keep asking them "Doesn't that hurt to wear?" and they go "oh, no really isn't.  Very comfy, actually.  I love wearin' them..."  After a while, I got it, and I gave up the questioning.  If they're wearin' them, they're ok/comfortable enough, and I just say "Like the shoes/boots on ya."  I don't get it either, but I do like the way they look on 'em.  All women should wear high freakin' heels for my entertainment.

Platforms of 2" or less are extraordinarily easy to wear and provide a very stable base for ambulation; for people like me who have trick ankles and such, they are great. It looks counter-intuitive, but they really are very comfy and stable.

[LadyShin]

CIT.TSK = Stop(ATK())

CWK.SEE[NCSFT.ATK()]; CWK.DEF(COH)

NCSFT.ATK(CWK); CWK.TSK[DEF(CWK)] > CWK.TSK[CLN(COH)]; CWK.TSK = DEF(CWK)

If NCSFT.TSK != GIV(PRGN.STDS[COH.PPL]) Then CWK.ATK(NCSFT)

If CWK.TGT != (LYL.CTZ or CWK[ATM]) Then ATK(TGT)


and..
While !COX.FIX; DEV.TSK = FIX.COX
 

[Kaiser Tarantula]

CIT.TSK = Stop(ATK())

CWK.SEE[NCSFT.ATK()]; CWK.DEF(COH)

NCSFT.ATK(CWK); CWK.TSK[DEF(CWK)] > CWK.TSK[CLN(COH)]; CWK.TSK = DEF(CWK)

If NCSFT.TSK != GIV(PRGN.STDS[COH.PPL]) Then CWK.ATK(NCSFT)

If CWK.TGT != (LYL.CTZ or CWK[ATM]) Then ATK(TGT)
 

Lemme see if I can translate for those who don't speak Praetorian Clockwork.

The citizen must stop its attack.

If Clockwork are aware of an attack by NCsoft, then the Clockwork's duty is to defend CoH.

If NCsoft should attack Clockwork, then the Clockwork shall defend itself in lieu of caring for CoH; thus, the Clockwork is currently defending itself.

If NCsoft refuses to refound Paragon Studios with the original CoH devs, then the Clockwork must attack NCsoft.

If the Clockwork's target isn't LYL.CTZ (term I'm not familiar with), or another Clockwork, then it will attack the target.

While !COX.FIX; DEV.TSK = FIX.COX

So long as CoX isn't fixed, the devs must fix CoX.

[Minotaur]

If the Clockwork's target isn't LYL.CTZ (term I'm not familiar with), or another Clockwork, then it will attack the target.
So long as CoX isn't fixed, the devs must fix CoX.

Loyal citizen ?

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Loyal citizen ?

Ah, that's probably it, though I expected "Loyal Citizen" to be LYL.CIT, in order to remain consistent with the appearance of "citizen" as "CIT" in other Clockspeak terms.

[LadyShin]

CTZ would be citizen, I assumed CIT would by 'city' 

[Tubbius]

TUB.TSK = <3(CWK)

[johnrobey]

In general: Please do not equivocate those of us who wear cosmetics and care about how we look, to the crap seen in such games as Bits and Tits. They are not equivalent. Taking pride in one's appearance is not a negative thing. I spent a few years in Vermont, and if one likes unshaven, uncosmetic'ed women with two inches of hair-growth under their arms and on their legs, I highly recommend it. Native Vermonters are a very au-naturel bunch; I want to go slather on yet more makeup at the very remembrance of their hairy, green-rubber-galoshes-wearing selves - and yes, I refer to the women. Its like another planet compared to the rest of the US.

Platforms of 2" or less are extraordinarily easy to wear and provide a very stable base for ambulation; for people like me who have trick ankles and such, they are great. It looks counter-intuitive, but they really are very comfy and stable.

Hi Illusionss, no disrespect was intended.  I'm sure my own preference for what looks nice was informed if not determined by my coming of age during those times.  While some women and men would go "eww!" at the idea of unshaved human bodies, you can see that this is not my personal view.   I haven't been in Vermont since I was a wee lad but I have traveled around the country (mostly midwest and SW USA.)  I think of how a little eye shadow and/or eyeliner and/or nail polish helped the Goth kids distinguish their generation from those who preceded it.  (The eyeliner in particular reminded me of ancient Egyptian kohl)  Yep, sounds like the native Vermont lasses would fit well with the mountain women I respected in the Colorado Rocky Mountains and plains.  If I weren't so gosh-darn allergic to cloying perfumes and scented powders, I'd probably like the look better.  I remember my beloved grandmothers who wore a ton of makeup (it was what ladies did in that era) tho nothing as extreme as the cosmetics worn by Queen Elizabeth I nor the stage paint worn routinely by actors.  Peace out and I DO respect your choices.   

[Kaiser Tarantula]

CTZ would be citizen, I assumed CIT would by 'city' 

Oddly enough, Clockwork never seem to use the generic word "city", from my memory.  Their term for any city is always based on its proper name.  For instance, Praetoria is "PRA" and Neutropolis is "NTR".  Even Imperial City is "IMP".  I've personally always used "CTY" for "city" in Clockspeak, as there's no way to confuse it for anything else.

"CTZ" would be a good abbreviation for Citizen for the same reason, if Clockwork didn't already use "CIT" for it.

Y'know, that's got me curious if the idle-chatter text for NPCs is stored clientside, and if some enterprising data-miner could pull out all the lines for Praetorian Clockwork.

[Taceus Jiwede]

In general: Please do not equivocate those of us who wear cosmetics and care about how we look, to the crap seen in such games as Bits and Tits. They are not equivalent. Taking pride in one's appearance is not a negative thing. I spent a few years in Vermont, and if one likes unshaven, uncosmetic'ed women with two inches of hair-growth under their arms and on their legs, I highly recommend it. Native Vermonters are a very au-naturel bunch; I want to go slather on yet more makeup at the very remembrance of their hairy, green-rubber-galoshes-wearing selves - and yes, I refer to the women. Its like another planet compared to the rest of the US.

Platforms of 2" or less are extraordinarily easy to wear and provide a very stable base for ambulation; for people like me who have trick ankles and such, they are great. It looks counter-intuitive, but they really are very comfy and stable.

With you 100%.  While of course I understand people's complaints about some of the characters being.....skimpy.  And I especially understand, and agree with, the "younger" looking humanoids
being to skimpy.  But other then that I am all for making your self look the best you can.  That is a huge raise of confidence, and it makes people feel good about themselves which can make them actually achieve more with their day if they feel good and they shouldn't lumped in with an oversexualized video game

The girl in the cosplayer pictures is either A) A model whose is simply getting paid and works very very very hard to maintain that look.  or B) A fan who wanted to dress up as a MMO character in which case she probably was thrilled to put on that costume and look like her favorite character, sure the shoes are uncomfortable but for a few minutes that will lead to a longer state of confidence and happiness. (Personal opinion from here on out)These games are also 19+ in Korea and most likely will be M in America at which point only adults should be playing those games anyway, and as an adult they can decide if they are comfortable with the in-game outfits. Personally, I like the skimpy outfits but I am also a 24 year old male.  Also I live in a very large college town, Halloween around is really more of a competition who can wear the least amount of cloths.  I see people wearing outfits that make the ones seen in these games almost seem prude.  And these people walk down public streets for the whole world to see, the parents either steer their kids away from it, or teach them at a young age that they are just outfits and women and men don't really dress that way and it doesn't define them as a person.

[LadyShin]

Oddly enough, Clockwork never seem to use the generic word "city", from my memory.  Their term for any city is always based on its proper name.  For instance, Praetoria is "PRA" and Neutropolis is "NTR".  Even Imperial City is "IMP".  I've personally always used "CTY" for "city" in Clockspeak, as there's no way to confuse it for anything else.

"CTZ" would be a good abbreviation for Citizen for the same reason, if Clockwork didn't already use "CIT" for it.

Y'know, that's got me curious if the idle-chatter text for NPCs is stored clientside, and if some enterprising data-miner could pull out all the lines for Praetorian Clockwork.

Not sure, but I've found various clockwork-speak pages around the net...

IF.EXIST=="Google",then(CWK.SPK==Found)

[Colette]

There's nothing wrong with looking nice and taking pride in one's appearance. That can lead to all sorts of useful lifestyle changes like eating right, eschewing bad habits like smoking, and exercising regularly.

While I admire this young model's obvious good health, I see the costumes she's wearing, and the image of women in the B&S ads, as trashy, degrading and objectifying. The black outfit is completely impractical, the red feathers, shoulder pads and brassiere are elaborate, but too busy to be artistic. The high heels, black latex with holes cut out, and the cat-o-nine at her belt... I'm gonna go ahead and say it -- this is obviously glorified S&M fetish wear. What we have here is a very expensive dominatrix.

This is further demonstrated by the obvious "schoolgirl" look of the preceeding pictures.

I will concede the red contacts, feathers and jewels against black are pretty, and could be salvaged.

The clothing in CoH was generally sexy but tasteful, showing off athletic figures for both genders, without obvious pandering. There were some exceptions... Swan looked ready to dance around a pole, and the Taste Police pull Desdemona over whenever she wears those shorts in public. CoH did poke fun at this sort of thing with the character of Silver Mantis.

Mind, I don't say this as a prude. I had a female character in-game that flew about in a thong (and it took a lot of work to make it not look trashy,) and another who swung an enormous sword. But there's a difference between tastefully sexy and just plain tacky. B&S has no class.

[Bliz]

Those may be 2" platforms in the front but the actual heel slope more. My estimates are approximate but I keep looking at those shoes and there's no way they're less than a 3" slope.

I also thought some of you might like to see what the feet are doing, more or less, inside those shoes.



It's true, a 2" slope is not that big a deal, 3" tends to be my limit. Platforms are especially nice for those of us who are considerably short and don't wish to/can't wear 4" heels.

[Colette]

Well, beware of those shoes anyway.

1. It's easy to break an ankle.
2. Prolonged wear causes hammertoe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammertoe
3. You can't run in them. So they're very bad for emergency situations.
(As a specific example, in the 9/11 catastrophe, many female office workers injured themselves, or left their heels behind and had to run barefoot in all that broken glass. The 9/11 Commission Report recommends all women keep a set of sensible shoes handy in the event of an emergency.)

[LadyShin]

Well, beware of those shoes anyway.

1. It's easy to break an ankle.
2. Prolonged wear causes hammertoe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammertoe
3. You can't run in them. So they're very bad for emergency situations.
(As a specific example, in the 9/11 catastrophe, many female office workers injured themselves, or left their heels behind and had to run barefoot in all that broken glass. The 9/11 Commission Report recommends all women keep a set of sensible shoes handy in the event of an emergency.)

Makes me wonder how Sister Psyche did it.. 

[General Idiot]

Psychic powers, obviously.

[LadyWizard]

She flies. Do we really need more explaination than that?

[houtex]

She flies. Do we really need more explaination than that?

Dang it, late again to comment.

[Kistulot]

Also if you look at her shoes in that picture, the heel itself is much more sensible.

I've run downhill over loose rocks in pointier heels than that.

[Aggelakis]

Yeah, and the render ingame of those shoes, it's one big platform sole instead of toe/heel separation. Those are even easier to do acrobatics and running in. A little heavier, but you get used to it and eventually don't even notice.

[Victoria Victrix]

http://foothealth.about.com/od/shoessocks/a/HighHeelsBad.htm

http://www.hss.edu/conditions_stress-fractures-foot-ankle.asp

[Lily Barclay]

Not entirely on topic... but did anyone else notice that it looked like Beyonce stole her costume tonight from one of the B&S girls?

[Taceus Jiwede]

Makes me wonder how Sister Psyche did it.. 

She had a few years off riding around in another person's body:P  That and you can use psychic powers to help correct your spine and take the weight off your feet.  Its a fact I just made up.

I know I am late but darn't I had to say it!

[TimtheEnchanter]

Not entirely on topic... but did anyone else notice that it looked like Beyonce stole her costume tonight from one of the B&S girls?

I thought she already owned the patent on skankwear?

[TonyV]

Personally, I don't like high heels.  Whenever I see a girl wearing them, I can't help but think, "My god, that's GOT to be uncomfortable," and being a t-shirt and jeans kind of guy, I just can't get past that.  To me, a girl in sneakers or sensible boots is much sexier than me sitting there thinking, "How did she even get those things on?"

[JaguarX]

What is sexy to me, is a girl that is not afraid to be herself and not feel the need to hide behind a bunch of make-up or wear only what ever the fashion magazines say they are supposed to or not supposed to wear.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Wisdom. TonyV and JaguarX have it.

[FatherXmas]

Not entirely on topic... but did anyone else notice that it looked like Beyonce stole her costume tonight from one of the B&S girls?

Or Desdemona (or Frank N Furter) with a little witch lace and fish nets thrown in.



And here she is with her bandmates from Destiny's Child

[Kaiser Tarantula]

What's kinda sad, is that she's a lovely woman in sensible clothes.  She doesn't need to wear stuff like that to look good - and not just 'good' but outright hot.

Now, as a fan of superhero comics, I'll admit I enjoy some T&A, and some ridiculous outfits.  But y'know, I much prefer them when worn by fictional girls.  When you've got an actual flesh and blood beauty dressed up in that kind of stuff, and it's not deliberate cosplay or something, it tends to leave me scratching my head and wondering why.

As for Blade & Soul, my issue isn't so much the outfits alone, but the whole aesthetic behind the female characters - they're exaggerated to the point of uncanny valley, then they desperately attempt to cover it up with 'sex appeal' as though they hope I'll be too busy fapping to notice.  Even on characters designed to look underaged.  It's creepy as heck and weirds me out.

Since I often play retro games, I like to think that the graphics of a game really don't bother me if the gameplay is good.  I mean, heck, I can play The Binding of Isaac and enjoy it, despite the fact that the graphics and subject matter of the game (like in a lot of things Ed McMillan creates) are deliberately intended to be as juvenile and offensive as possible to those with particular sensitivities.  But Blade & Soul makes me question that assumption about myself, because even if my computer would run it, I would be so weirded out by every female character in the game that I'd have to avoid it on that reason alone.

[Lily Barclay]

Meh. Beyonce wears leotards. It's her schtick. But I really did think B&S when I saw that outfit. XD Though the B&S girls don't have the flesh colored paneling to keep them decent.

I don't find her generally offensive, though. I'm just glad she's one of the few women that looks healthy and pretty instead of like a stick with an anorexic bird head.

[dwturducken]

"Bandmates." <snicker> 

[Sajaana]

I see nothing wrong with Beyonce's costume.  It isn't like she's walking out in a g-string and pasties.  What are we, a bunch of Amish?  She's a performer, it's the Super Bowl, and she has every right to wear something interesting.  Who wants to see a headliner wear something boring, anyway?

Indeed, when I saw her, it reminded me of the Witch Lace bodysuit from Magic Pack 2:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/w/images//5/5d/SB2_Witch4.jpg

There's a difference, I think, between Beyonce's witch lace and what Blade & Soul is doing.  Beyonce's leotard is made to be seen.  It's attention grabbing and fashionable, which is what a performer (or a super hero, I might add) wants to do.

Blade & Soul is just pervy.  It's looking up the skirts of teenage girls to reveal things that are meant to be covered up.  There is no style here, just raw voyeurism.

That's something we ought to think about when criticizing Blade & Soul, or when we compare Blade & Soul to CoH.  It isn't about how much--or how little--flesh is exposed.  It's how it's presented that's the real issue.

[houtex]

What are we, a bunch of Amish? 

Well, that, and/or little children under the age of, oh, 12, maybe, according to the FCC. 

[JaguarX]

Meh. Beyonce wears leotards. It's her schtick. But I really did think B&S when I saw that outfit. XD Though the B&S girls don't have the flesh colored paneling to keep them decent.

I don't find her generally offensive, though. I'm just glad she's one of the few women that looks healthy and pretty instead of like a stick with an anorexic bird head.

yeah not sexy. And dangerous. I'm already slim.

What happens when you rub two sticks together? Fire hazard.

[Lily Barclay]

What happens when you rub two sticks together? Fire hazard.

LOL!

[TimtheEnchanter]

Meh. Beyonce wears leotards. It's her schtick. But I really did think B&S when I saw that outfit. XD Though the B&S girls don't have the flesh colored paneling to keep them decent.

I don't find her generally offensive, though. I'm just glad she's one of the few women that looks healthy and pretty instead of like a stick with an anorexic bird head.

Regardless, there's probably just as many real bodyparts on the B&S CGI models as there are on her.

[Taceus Jiwede]

What is sexy to me, is a girl that is not afraid to be herself and not feel the need to hide behind a bunch of make-up or wear only what ever the fashion magazines say they are supposed to or not supposed to wear.

That is a good attitude to have and is wise, and its a very healthy way to approach a relationship.  But you have to take into consideration some women that get dressed and wear make up ARE just being themselves.  I know lots of women who like to get all spruced up and sexy for a night on the town and they are just being themselves, they enjoy doing it.  Keep in mind these aren't stupid or loose moraled women either, that is also a common stereotype.(Not that I am accusing anyone of saying that, just to clarify.)  But just the same, people who don't like that type of thing have no obligation to like it/take part in it.  Just like those men and women who do like getting spruced up have no right to belittle those who don't.  In the end its a matter of neither side deserves to be treated differently because of the clothes they are wearing.