Author Topic: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why  (Read 18161 times)

Segev

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2012, 07:58:40 PM »
Come to think of it, do they even really attend cons? I mean outside the cons of their own products where they send a relatively local representative to? I mean do an actual NCSOft or Nexon decision maker aka someone with decision making power over the overall corporation actually attend those things?
Whether it's just a poor peon to man the ad booth or the CEO of NCSoft himself is actually irrelevant to the need to have a presence wherever they are. The purpose is not to be seen by the management of NCSoft, but by the crowd of con attendees. To have people see, at the same time they're seeing a new shiny put out by NCSoft, a group of people explaining just why they should turn away and not consider the product at all.

Because even if it's a poor picked-on peon, when he goes back and tells his boss that business was way down because people were turned off by this group talking about how the game he was there to promote is already on its death bed, his bosses will be disturbed. And they'll tell their bosses. And the media might cover it, which would make sure their bosses' bosses also saw it, and ask them about it.

And so the black eye festers.

JaguarX

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2012, 08:12:03 PM »
Whether it's just a poor peon to man the ad booth or the CEO of NCSoft himself is actually irrelevant to the need to have a presence wherever they are. The purpose is not to be seen by the management of NCSoft, but by the crowd of con attendees. To have people see, at the same time they're seeing a new shiny put out by NCSoft, a group of people explaining just why they should turn away and not consider the product at all.

Because even if it's a poor picked-on peon, when he goes back and tells his boss that business was way down because people were turned off by this group talking about how the game he was there to promote is already on its death bed, his bosses will be disturbed. And they'll tell their bosses. And the media might cover it, which would make sure their bosses' bosses also saw it, and ask them about it.

And so the black eye festers.

oh in that case by now they had to already have heard of us so that wouldnt even be news to to them anymore but in the end, yea the "black eye" festers, if the goal is to merely keep the black eye fresh. But with no viable solution presented by said group who goal seem to only ensure this black eye fester or goal only benefits this said group with no regards to the company, they will probably just learn to deal with it.

Colette

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2012, 08:23:00 PM »
Yeah... learn to deal with protesters from their audience turning up at conventions, and embarrassing them in front of every game manufacturer and potential investor in the place. Laugh with me! MWAHHH-HAHAAAHAAAAaaaa...!

...why yes, I have been practicing that. Thanks for noticing.

Atlantea

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2012, 08:29:21 PM »
Yeah... learn to deal with protesters from their audience turning up at conventions, and embarrassing them in front of every game manufacturer and potential investor in the place. Laugh with me! MWAHHH-HAHAAAHAAAAaaaa...!

...why yes, I have been practicing that. Thanks for noticing.

Ah! Another devotee of the Vernon Von Grun school of evil laughter! MUA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! We'll show them! We'll SHOW THEM ALL!!!! HA HA HA HA HA!!!  *COUGHCOUGHCOUGH* 

Ahem... scuze me. Got carried away there for a moment. 


Segev

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2012, 08:41:10 PM »
Yeah, the point of the effort is to prove wrong the assumption that is doubtless in place: "Hunker down, ignore it, and now that their game is gone, they will go away."

We have to prove that wrong. The longer we persist, the fresher the black eye is 2, 6, 12 months from now, the more NCSoft will have to strain to explain it to their peers, and the more other MMO publishers will take this very seriously when they look at how they're going to handle their own games, their own communities.

TonyV

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2012, 09:09:17 PM »
I'd have posted it earlier, but feel certain even today, that many will not like it.  I'm sorry if I offend anyone.

I am SO banning you for this!

not...

(Was that really a worry?)

JaguarX

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2012, 09:16:39 PM »
Yeah, the point of the effort is to prove wrong the assumption that is doubtless in place: "Hunker down, ignore it, and now that their game is gone, they will go away."

We have to prove that wrong. The longer we persist, the fresher the black eye is 2, 6, 12 months from now, the more NCSoft will have to strain to explain it to their peers, and the more other MMO publishers will take this very seriously when they look at how they're going to handle their own games, their own communities.

yeah.

By now, they surely know what is going on that is for sure. How they respond to that is up to them.

but given they way the closing of this game was an anomaly it seems, I think most of the publishers knew what would happen if thye done it the way NCSoft done it and thus none that I know of and from what has been said, none has done so. It's NCSoft that have to see the error and maybe in the future not do it again in the same manner.

I dont like all the secrect stuff or stuff treated like top secret material when it dont have to be. If there was a reason for closing, details. If there is a reason for not selling, details. If there are negotiations going, details. If the negotiations failed, details. This is regardless of the company, person, entity, group, etc. 90% of the time, the player base know it's a buisness with money that has to be made and will understand if giving the details.


Out of curiosity who are these peers they must explain this to at this point? Are you meaning other game publishers, internal peers who should and probably already know the just of what is happening, the media which seems the word is slowly but surely getting out to, or stockholders who dont know about this decision at least on closing of paragon studios by now would be very strange for serious shareholders and investors and a mistake on an amatuer level to not know the financial moves that the company you are invested in are making, or who or what?

 But I think a player based game that is in the works have the chance to make the greatest impact than anything. It is a chance that not many communities get a chance to partake and or be a part of or have the people with the know how, skill, and will to do it. If or rather when it comes to fruitation, we then can show them how it can be done, create a loyal fan base, make some cash, and still not screw them over in the end. This will not be judged on when things are going well but when mess hits the fan when the decisions that may not be popular must be made for the greater good of the game and or company. When the game is not covering the running costs and how to cut things and or change stuff so that it will cover those running costs. One complaint in CO chat on COX is that CO doesnt have many updates. But updates cost money, personnel cost money, even fixing bugs cost money and would thye be happy if more updates came out at the expense of killing off the game? Or if the way to keep the game running was to cut back on updates and the player base would be happy, then why the complaints in the first place? Remember it was said that COX was the most profitable SuperHeroMMO out there and fro mthe sheets that have been provided it wasnt much, so I can only imagine the razor thin profits CO is running on.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:25:53 PM by JaguarX »

DrakeGrimm

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2012, 12:36:31 AM »
fair enough. But if this is war, those that declared war probably should step up the heat and the firepower as all NCSoft have to do is sit and do nothing and still their goal is achieved. While the other side goal seem to be to get that IP (I think) which NCSoft holds and will take work in one way or another.

Several projects are in the works. Just have the popcorn ready. Gonna be a hell of a show, I have my way. Our City is gone. We are not. Short of shady assassination attempts, I can't think of a single thing NCSoft can do to stop us, now.


(All assassinations must be scheduled ahead of time, and I'll need those forms in triplicate NCSoft.)
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JaguarX

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2012, 01:08:33 AM »
Several projects are in the works. Just have the popcorn ready. Gonna be a hell of a show, I have my way. Our City is gone. We are not. Short of shady assassination attempts, I can't think of a single thing NCSoft can do to stop us, now.


(All assassinations must be scheduled ahead of time, and I'll need those forms in triplicate NCSoft.)

which reminds me. I'm fresh out of popcorn. Better head to the store and get some more before I miss something.

johnrobey

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2012, 12:58:45 PM »
I am SO banning you for this!

not...

(Was that really a worry?)

LOL and thanks!  I appreciate what you and others posted in reply.  I really felt I had to say it, even as I expected to get flamed for it and even questioned myself about offering that opinion to a grieving community.  I'm really glad to see people having discussions here as well as reaching out to one another, commiserating our loss.  I probably would have felt less trepidacious altogether were it not for what I saw on the official CoH forums those last few weeks.  Even amid cherished memories and other great stuff, much of what I saw there was ugly and toxic.  (and, yeah, I just wrote a lot of that off as how those individuals were grieving and coping with their loss.)

I hope I never become Unicorn-y and will be perusing these forums for ways I can help the Pancakes at NCSoft to part with the IP and look forward to the day I can log in again.
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healix

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2012, 01:20:53 AM »
JR, you are kind, considerate, intelligent and often the voice of reason. I can't imagine anyone commenting about a post of yours in this way:


Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

Colette

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2012, 01:31:26 AM »
JR, I for one appreciate your circumspection and consideration.

Yeah, toward the last, the official boards were a cess-pit. I'm glad they're gone, though the loss of things like all our guides will be hard to replace.

Again, I have no interest in "hating" NCSoft either, but as they have made themselves our adversaries, I'm afraid I dont think we can afford to be sympathetic to them. We must do what it takes (within law and ethics) to get the job done, then move on. And we have so few tools at our disposal!

Mandrake

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2012, 01:45:08 AM »
Although there is the *possibility* that *somebody* HTTracked the forums *before* they were shutdown and have about 41.36 GB stored off on a server...
Just sayin... it's possible...

Aggelakis

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2012, 02:14:48 AM »
Although there is the *possibility* that *somebody* HTTracked the forums *before* they were shutdown and have about 41.36 GB stored off on a server...
Just sayin... it's possible...
A whole bunch of somebodies, including archive.org.
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Colette

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2012, 05:12:46 AM »
Guides... love those guides. Wrote a couple I'm proud of m'self. Happy now.

Mandrake

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2012, 05:42:36 AM »
A whole bunch of somebodies, including archive.org.

Indeed. There should be plenty of browse-able backups available methinks.

johnrobey

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Re: Reopen Negotiations...Here is Why
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2012, 12:57:05 PM »
As usual, this community continues to impress me with continued compassion and warmth, as well as my own personal boggle over the collective IT-competence and successes in preserving so much that otherwise was lost.  Thank you!   8)
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine