Building a New Desktop...

[Paulitious]

[Ankhammon]

A couple questions for you. Are you looking at just replacing a computer you already have or also the mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer? This will affect the price if you plan on building yourself.

I know you stated you could potentially spend a little more, can you give a fixed amount of that more? I'm asking because computers can go very high if you want what is referred to as "bleeding edge" technology.

What else are you planning on using your new PC for?

Ultimately, when building your own PC (or buying) you want to know what you are planning to use it for and for how long you intend it to exist. How much security do you intend to have on the system?

Just give us what you can for answers and I'll see if I can help you.

One thing I will tell you is that with "already built" computer pricing you might be better off buying one there cost/effort wise. The more advanced PCs are cheaper to build then buy outright, but for the standard user it's the other way around generally.
Now if you want to build one yourself just for the experience, disregard the last paragraph.

[Paulitious]

A couple questions for you. Are you looking at just replacing a computer you already have or also the mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer? This will affect the price if you plan on building yourself

First off, thank you for responding Ankhammon!

I'm pretty much just looking to replace the computer I already have, which is a very old Dell laptop. It is so old that I am using a wireless keyboard & mouse (alongside a HDTV as a monitor) in order for it to retain basic functionality. All the aforementioned hardware can obviously be transferred over and I have no need or desire for a printer currently.

I know you stated you could potentially spend a little more, can you give a fixed amount of that more? I'm asking because computers can go very high if you want what is referred to as "bleeding edge" technology.

Well, I would say that my absolute limit would fall around the €750 - 800 mark but that would really be pushing it, I think.

What else are you planning on using your new PC for?

I work for an electronic engineering magazine (the irony is not lost on me) called Elektor, so I would primarily use the desktop to work from home. I do some editing and voice-acting using mostly freeware such as Open Office, Audacity and Inkscape. Aside from that, most of my computer usage is rather passive; reading E-books/comics
, watching movies and playing music. So, home entertainment, I guess? I hope that all makes sense?

Ultimately, when building your own PC (or buying) you want to know what you are planning to use it for and for how long you intend it to exist. How much security do you intend to have on the system?

Hm. I think I'd like a system that has some longevity, so that's I'm able to upgrade the necessary parts should a new MMO take my fancy. Also, having a machine that helps me to become more au fait with the maintenance and enhancement would be quite useful for the future. However, a PC that allows me to play a resurrected CoX (with high settings) and maybe CO/TSW as well would more than satisfy me, since they're games in which I have specific interest of varying intensity.

I'm not really sure what you mean by security. If I've misunderstood the question, please let me know!

Just give us what you can for answers and I'll see if I can help you.

One thing I will tell you is that with "already built" computer pricing you might be better off buying one there cost/effort wise. The more advanced PCs are cheaper to build then buy outright, but for the standard user it's the other way around generally.
Now if you want to build one yourself just for the experience, disregard the last paragraph.

Hm. I intend to give all the parts I purchase to my colleagues who work in the lab to construct so, while I would like to gain some experience in the area of construction, I would be lying if I suggested that it is my main focus at this point. I just want a rig that plays what I tell it to with good performance.

My only concern is that an "already built" computer might have inferior parts or end up draining funds I could have applied elsewhere. I'm so uninformed on the issue that these fears could be entirely unfounded.

Thanks for your help so far! I feel a little more at ease already. Before making this topic I was seriously considering getting a PS4 and a subscription to DCUO. Please, don't let it come to that!

P

[Arcana]

Honestly, MMOs do not tend to push the limits of computer technology, so anything you build or buy that is remotely reasonable would play CoH or CO fine.  Keep in mind that the computer I purchased in 2010 played CoH at maximum everything.  Today, if it was ported properly an iPhone 5 could probably play CoH at reasonable settings.

There are some very good system builders lurking around here that can make excellent recommendations, and while I'm a decent builder myself I'm not really aware of european issues of price and availability.  One thing I can suggest as a baseline to look at unless and until a solid recommendation comes in is the arstechnica system builder's guide, which they update semi-annually I think.  The latest is here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/ars-technica-system-guide-august-2014/

They generally make three basic recommendations for systems, what they call the budget box, the hot rod, and the god box.  The budget box is a decent personal computer that can play most games reasonably well and do other basic tasks.  The hot rod is the power user box that has more power than the average person needs and can do computationally and graphically intensive things very well.  The god box is the "money is no object what's the best I can reasonably do without going cuckoo" system.  The budget box target cost in parts is about $700, the hot rod about $1200, and the god box has fluctuated between $5000 and $12000.  For you, something between the budget box and the hot rod seems to be within your price range, depending on current pricing.

If nothing else, the thought process put into the choice of parts is something worth reading, just to give you an idea of the kinds of things a system designer thinks about (and the kinds of questions someone might ask when designing one for you).

[Ankhammon]

[Paulitious]

Honestly, MMOs do not tend to push the limits of computer technology, so anything you build or buy that is remotely reasonable would play CoH or CO fine.  Keep in mind that the computer I purchased in 2010 played CoH at maximum everything.  Today, if it was ported properly an iPhone 5 could probably play CoH at reasonable settings.

That is very good to read, Arcana. Thanks!

My ultimate goal will always be to play CoX again, but knowing I could play CO in the meantime would provide me much comfort. I would love to play TSW and perhaps make it my main MMO, but it seems much more demanding in regards of PC specifications than either CoX or CO.

There are some very good system builders lurking around here that can make excellent recommendations, and while I'm a decent builder myself I'm not really aware of european issues of price and availability.  One thing I can suggest as a baseline to look at unless and until a solid recommendation comes in is the arstechnica system builder's guide, which they update semi-annually I think.  The latest is here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/ars-technica-system-guide-august-2014/

They generally make three basic recommendations for systems, what they call the budget box, the hot rod, and the god box.  The budget box is a decent personal computer that can play most games reasonably well and do other basic tasks.  The hot rod is the power user box that has more power than the average person needs and can do computationally and graphically intensive things very well.  The god box is the "money is no object what's the best I can reasonably do without going cuckoo" system.  The budget box target cost in parts is about $700, the hot rod about $1200, and the god box has fluctuated between $5000 and $12000.  For you, something between the budget box and the hot rod seems to be within your price range, depending on current pricing.

The link you provided is very helpful, thank you. I shall peruse it more deeply whilst at work tomorrow. I've thus far been wary of trusting sources with whom I cannot engage a dialogue, since much of the language they use I cannot fully comprehend and I do not wish to start copy-pasting their suggested parts into my eventual purchase without some feedback along the way. However, since you attest to their name, I'll bookmark the page and keep it in mind (:

OK. So it looks like we are pricing between 600-850 Euros which will probably get you a decent system (depending on taxes and stuff I have no idea about ).

Your basic peripheral needs are all there which will cut the cost by quite a bit. You are not looking to replace headphones/speakers/mic?

I am already equipped with some very nice speakers & headphones, so will not need to replace them and my workplace provides me with some very agreeable microphones too.

Are you looking to get into a good sound card? Was the sound card in your old system adequate?

I don't think I'm that bothered about having a good sound card. It's certainly not a priority for me, as long as it enables me to perform all my basic audio recording tasks and enjoy various recreational media. I can always upgrade it at a later date, should I require, no?

Are you into things like recording for youtube or anything like that? You would have to consider this for your HD space and probably some other considerations too (graphics card, cpu and possibly other considerations).

I have never even uploaded a video to Youtube, let alone recorded something. I do have some interest in becoming more adept with various image editing software, but video work is outside of my interests.

For security, I was referring to things like antivirus, firewall, router, surge protector or other hardware/software that you might use or need for your new system.

Security isn't a huge priority for me. However, I do wish to physically protect my desktop from the most common causes of malfunction, so will defer to outside advice on the importance of such hardware. Is anti-virus software really necessary? Would I be a fool to forgo it?

The games you've listed are not high end (anymore) and won't require a really expensive video card, so that's good news.

This makes me very happy. Are you also including TSW in that statement?

I will tell you that I used to build my own PCs, but I found that doing smaller things like buying a decent system and adding a video card (maybe swapping out power supplies) got the job done for much less than I could do building from scratch.
By the time you've invested in the pc and the software you have to purchase you start to realize that a good store bought system makes a lot of sense unless you need the advanced tech for some reason. Such as a high end sound card for professional voice over work.

Fortunately, I am paid for my voice alone, rather than my skill at capturing it. All the real audio magic is done by our in-house producer, so my requirements regarding a sound-card are nothing out of the ordinary.

I still feel somewhat precarious about venturing near store-bought machines; old prejudices die hard. I hope this additional information I have provided will help you advise me further.

Thank you for your responses, Arcana and Ankhammon! I had no expected such a swift and informed response

[microc]

[microc]

[microc]

with anti virus there few free ones out there avg and avast. every year they do tested list of anti virus and there rating. malware bytes is for malware. most mb now have good sound cards..I would use the onboard sound first then try a asus or soundbaster card. one build has a slower cpu and a ssd for fast boot speed. for gpu I would wait till the 960 drops.

[Ankhammon]

let me start by saying that Microc has some pretty nice ideas (I like the first one except Windows 8 ).

Before you go this route (baking from scratch), make absolutely sure that your people are comfortable with placing a motherboard into a case. Some techies actually don't do this. If not, you can buy a tower which includes the case with a motherboard and power supply attached.

What OS are you currently using? Is it Windows 7 or 8? The reason I'm asking is that Windows went a different direction with windows 8 that left many people (me included) feeling cold about it. Basically, they made the usage feel like a tablet or other device that does not use keyboard/mouse (but you can still use them). The whole thing was just odd to me.
If you don't like that kind of thing you can still get a version of Windows 7 for your new pc.
From what you've said, sounds like the home version of either would work for you, but the professional versions offer more options.

Using an antivirus (with a firewall in it) would be something I would highly recommend. The last thing you want to do is get everything working on your pc and for it to be the first day CoH was back (praying) and then you get hit with a virus and your OS goes boom.
I've been using Eset for a while now and it seems to be doing the job. It has an advantage of using a newer algorithm to look for viruses which is easier on gamers. Companies like McAfee use an older algorithm that's more akin to brute force, effective but uses considerable amount of resources (you can get lag).

Last word is that there is a huge amount of difference in graphics cards and the prices. You can go cheaper than Microc suggested, but from what I've read it's a pretty good card.

Hmmm... maybe I can buy this setup for myself and use Win 3.11... have to  get a floppy drive too...

[SerialBeggar]

I subscribe to MaximumPC magazine to keep up with computer tech.  You can peruse their website which includes articles from the magazine. 
http://www.maximumpc.com/

[microc]

there also toms hardware system builders guild.

[Microcosm]

I personally agree with microc on the sound card, totally an upgrade you make at a later time if you really want it. I'm not going to add to all the advice you're already getting in this thread (don't want to drown you with different opinions), but I will say if you really want to be able to maintain your system in the future, you should consider doing the actual building of it yourself, maybe with one of your lab friends as a guide.

[Paulitious]

[Arcana]

I can make neither head nor tail of this statement, I'm sorry 

microc's first build uses a somewhat slower CPU (the 3.2 GHz Pentium as opposed to the 3.5Ghz Core-i5 - not only is the clock slower but the Pentium has only two cores as opposed to the four cores in the I5 - its like having two processors instead of four although many games would not use all of that CPU power either way).  But it adds an SSD flash drive on top of the normal hard drive which can significantly speed up overall disk performance: Windows can be configured to use some of that space to cache the files it uses most when it boots up, greatly speeding up booting and starting up.  It can also use that space to accelerate access to commonly used files.

The 960 he refers to is I believe the NVIDIA 960 GTX video card, which should be releasing any day now (probably in October).  If I understand correctly (I don't follow NVIDIA consumer gpu releases very closely) the 960 is intended to be targeted at the lower end of that generation of gpu technology, and would be the basis of the more affordable cards using the latest NVIDIA technology, which should make them better bang for buck.

[Fridgy Daiere]

...

I currently use Windows 7 and find it manageable.

...

I'd love some second (or third) opinions on the first build microc suggested. If most people think it's the most effective use of my budget, then I'll probably go with it. Any more feeback is truly welcomed!

Did you purchase a retail copy of Windows 7 for your old computer?  If so (and you're not going to use the old computer anymore), you can just install it on the new one to save some money.

...

In my experience, while an aftermarket CPU cooler offers better cooling than the one that comes with your CPU, most people don't need one as long as they're not overclocking.

The GeForce GTX 760 in microc's list is comparable to the Radeon r9 270, but is between 40-50 Euros more expensive.  And for those who keep up with such things, yes, I understand that the 270 gives slightly less performance than the 760, but it is still sufficient for all of his needs as outlined in his posts at a significant price reduction.

The GeForce GTX 960 microc mentions waiting for is rumored to make its debut on the market at around 250 USD, which is 196 Euros according to Google.

Paulitious, to put the video card thing into perspective, I bought a Radeon HD 5770 in 2011 which would play CoX in Ultra Mode (medium settings) without lag except for league and giant monster situations.  Today, it is still able to play every game my husband throws at it, most of them with high settings.  The 5770 has only half of the memory of and is *5 steps below* the cheapest card mentioned here on chart I linked to above.

[LadyVamp]

microc's 2nd system looks interesting.  The windows 8, at least right now, can still be downgraded to windows 7.  Microsoft is about to close that option off for new machines though.  Time is short on the downgrade option though.  Support for windows 7 is slated to last until Jan 2020.

About the SSD on the first build, I looked at that drive as a possible for my esxi system at home.  I ended up shying away from it.  The performance increase would have been nice since esxi 5.5 can use the ssd for enhancing disk access.  It can also handle gracefully the failure of the device.  The issue was with the device itself.  If your OS support the trim command, the evo can last for many years giving great performance.  If not, it doesn't take long before the performance drops and its life it reduced.  If you are interested in ssds, stick with the intel 340 series.  The drives are prosumer or better and will stand up to use without trim support.

[Paulitious]

[Arcana]

About the SSD on the first build, I looked at that drive as a possible for my esxi system at home.  I ended up shying away from it.  The performance increase would have been nice since esxi 5.5 can use the ssd for enhancing disk access.  It can also handle gracefully the failure of the device.  The issue was with the device itself.  If your OS support the trim command, the evo can last for many years giving great performance.  If not, it doesn't take long before the performance drops and its life it reduced.  If you are interested in ssds, stick with the intel 340 series.  The drives are prosumer or better and will stand up to use without trim support.

As far as I know, every version of Windows from Win7 on up supports trim.  I'm not familiar with the Intel 340; did you mean the Intel 335 or 520?

Personally I'm using a pair of 840 EVO 1TB drives in my work system, and they work great.  Also, for people interested in SSD endurance, I've been following Tech Report's tests for a while now: http://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment.  They are up to 1.5 PB as of a week ago: http://techreport.com/review/27062/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-only-two-remain-after-1-5pb.  Very interesting reading.

[Fridgy Daiere]

I fell down a rabbit hole after reading the articles Arcana posted and found this.  The "Sweet Spot" build  would clock in a bit over your new budget, but you could swap to a less expensive case and drop the sound card to fix that.

Also, a list can be found here which includes online computer part stores in your country.  Happy building!