Building a New Desktop...

[HEATSTROKE]

[microc]

when your looking at builds and doing your list. have a little cheat sheet on things your looking for or want the pc to do. as a tech for a long time and a pc builder I seen pitfalls of some builds and have made my own errors over the years. the stock intel cooler is not a bad cooler if intel stopped making it out of plastic and use cheap push pins. I seen a lot of new builders snap a leg off the cooler or have 3 of the four push pins in tight. I also find that the push pin coolers can fall off the mb real easy over time. the better coolers air ones have a back plate and screws. gpu and power supply's. power supply 12v rail is the main rail today both the cpu and gpu use it. buy an under sized or cheap unit and your rig can lock up or reboot or become unstable.
also sizing it to small would make you replace it latter if you put in a larger gpu. newer power supplys now have fans that ramp up when the units get warm. buying a slightly larger units keeps these fan from not turning on or running slow and quiet. with gpu you dont want to just build the gaming pc for coh..if you do and try play other games you have wasted your money.
so you dont get lost what I trying to say is if you look at amd 7770/260/270 line.
before the 7770 was the 6770 5770 4770. ect. with each newer rev of the card the gpu got faster but they also are now using less power and run cooler. the gpu core tech changes with each newer rev. read up on amd tonga and nvidia maxwell. coh graphics right now are old and the engin is old so a lot of low and mid size cards can run the game at a good fps. the issue now is there going to use the newer unreal engine for coh 1.5. what I dont want to see happen is when your in a larger mob fight like a rikit spaceship raid..you cant move and are dying and running back to the ship over and over. under powered gpu will run hot under heavy game load and you player will just be lagging out. (bad fps). that why toms hardware and other review sites use gaming pc and stock games to show base line fps of gpus. one other thing to watch out for is fan noise. 120mm fans if run at 100 percent can over time be to loud for some people. motherboards with pmw 4 pin case pins they can control the speed better then a 3 pin voltage fan. if you do want more fans then fan ports are on the mb then look at a 5 channel fan controller and plug all the fans into it. you can then turn the fans up or down. one last warning..cases with a lot of led....make great night lights...but hard to sleep. I have 2 foot nxzt green led strip...my condo people know when I late night gaming (my unit glows bright green at night). also look into a good head set...loud gaming at 2am make for the police to show up at your door.

[LadyVamp]

As far as I know, every version of Windows from Win7 on up supports trim.  I'm not familiar with the Intel 340; did you mean the Intel 335 or 520?

Personally I'm using a pair of 840 EVO 1TB drives in my work system, and they work great.  Also, for people interested in SSD endurance, I've been following Tech Report's tests for a while now: http://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment.  They are up to 1.5 PB as of a week ago: http://techreport.com/review/27062/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-only-two-remain-after-1-5pb.  Very interesting reading.

Yes.  thanks.  I meant the 520 line.  I very rarely use windows anymore preferring vmware's esxi, centos (rhel clone), and freebsd platforms.  rhel and clones do support the trim command even if you do device wide encryption using luks.  Does require adding some parameters to the mounts. zfs is claimed to be friendly to ssds.  recommendations I've been seeing are to use hdd for storage and put the zil on the ssd.

I haven't tried an ssd yet though I am interested in them.

[Arcana]

Yes.  thanks.  I meant the 520 line.  I very rarely use windows anymore preferring vmware's esxi, centos (rhel clone), and freebsd platforms.  rhel and clones do support the trim command even if you do device wide encryption using luks.  Does require adding some parameters to the mounts. zfs is claimed to be friendly to ssds.  recommendations I've been seeing are to use hdd for storage and put the zil on the ssd.

I haven't tried an ssd yet though I am interested in them.

When specing zil, be aware that 1) async writes don't use the zil and 2) low latency is the most important thing.  Look for the lowest latency write speeds for slog devices (offloaded zil).  Read speeds are totally irrelevant for slog devices because ZFS never reads the slog except after power failure (its a common misconception that slogs need fast read performance when ZFS basically never reads the slog at all, it only writes to it except when the system suffers a crash or power faillure).  We use ZeusRAM for slogs in our higher performance ZFS arrays and symmetric or read-optimized SSDs for L2ARC (actually, the 520s are pretty good for L2ARC).

ZFS handles SSD well in one respect: its a copy on write filesystem, and that means no matter how much you (try to) write and rewrite and rewrite the same data blocks repeatedly, those writes will actually get written to other blocks and not overwrite the same blocks.  This prevents concentrated wearing out of cells, but it creates a potential problem: write leveling.  Because every cell is written to about the same number of times as ZFS continuously overwrites blocks, you could have the case of all of them wearing out about the same time.  You have to be careful about that when monitoring the health of SSD drives backing copy on write filesystems (ZFS is not the only such filesystem: btrfs is also copy on write).

None of this has anything to do with someone building a new PC running Windows for the first time, so I would advise anyone reading the thread for that purpose to just ignore all of this: its not relevant to that exercise in any way.

[Harpospoke]

Good reading here.   

I'm shopping around on ebay for a copy of Win 7.   I notice I can get an "upgrade" cheaper.   From what I understand, upgrading from Win XP means you lose all your installed programs.   If that's the only downside, no problem...I can reinstall everything I need with no problem.

Would it be better to get a full copy of Win 7 or is an upgrade just as good?

[microc]

the upgrade cd is a full version os it just looks for xp or one of the os that is a qualifying upgrade. one issue with xp and windows 7 is xp most times uses ntfs partions for data security and windows 7 uses newer fat 32 for larger hard drives. windows 7 can run on ntfs. most times when you run the upgrade os it backs up the old os to a win.bac folder that just waste space on your drive. from a tech side your better off buying full version of windows and then removing all of the partions and data and then let windows make new restore and data partion. before you do this have google drive account and move your personal files off the pc and onto the cloud. google drive puts itself into windows explorer and it drag and drop your files onto google. the other issue is make sure you have a cd or usb stick with the motherboard chipset drivers and video and ethernet and printer drivers and any other hardware the pc has. if your switching from xp microsoft may have free windows 10 upgrade path for you. right now windows 10 beta you can download it and kick the tires. most betat and rtm will expire in 180 days. if you dont care to wipe and reinstall your os it can be fun to see if you like the os before you buy.

[Harpospoke]

the upgrade cd is a full version os it just looks for xp or one of the os that is a qualifying upgrade. one issue with xp and windows 7 is xp most times uses ntfs partions for data security and windows 7 uses newer fat 32 for larger hard drives. windows 7 can run on ntfs. most times when you run the upgrade os it backs up the old os to a win.bac folder that just waste space on your drive. from a tech side your better off buying full version of windows and then removing all of the partions and data and then let windows make new restore and data partion. before you do this have google drive account and move your personal files off the pc and onto the cloud. google drive puts itself into windows explorer and it drag and drop your files onto google. the other issue is make sure you have a cd or usb stick with the motherboard chipset drivers and video and ethernet and printer drivers and any other hardware the pc has. if your switching from xp microsoft may have free windows 10 upgrade path for you. right now windows 10 beta you can download it and kick the tires. most betat and rtm will expire in 180 days. if you dont care to wipe and reinstall your os it can be fun to see if you like the os before you buy.

Thanks!     It shouldn't be too expensive to find a full version of Win 7 on ebay.

I've got all my stuff backed up on a separate HD so I'm covered there.  I'll look into google drive anyway to see if there are advantages there.

[Harpospoke]

So anyone have an opinions on this build?   I'm settling around the $700-$800 mark.   I don't know how important that issue with the case not being quite big enough for the video card might be. 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/P7YVf7

(do we need a sticky thread for "new builds" and "computer advice" in lieu of a looming need for new gaming rigs?)

[microc]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DtzP7P
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DtzP7P/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($159.99 @ Micro Center)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($28.99 @ Micro Center)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($137.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: *Mushkin Stealth 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.42 @ Amazon)
Storage: *Hitachi Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($47.49 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 270X 2GB DEVIL Video Card  ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $798.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-09 14:10 EDT-0400

[microc]

the amd cpu is not bad for a entry gaming system. the issue is amd has kileld of the fx line and the cpu board that it was on (990/990fx). the newer 9500 fx can only run on few mb with over sized vrms. amd newer cpu are mostly apu now. the intel x9x chipset will take the haswell or newer brodwell cpu. intel is killing off the 1150 mb when skywell drops next year (1151) pin mb on the x100 chipset. the amd fx mb is 2 years old. the intel mb you have the newer sata m2 connector if you need a faster ssd. the intel mb all have pci 3.0 slots now. older amd chipset dont do sata 6g or pci 3.0. intel cpu core is also better for gaming.

[Harpospoke]

the amd cpu is not bad for a entry gaming system. the issue is amd has kileld of the fx line and the cpu board that it was on (990/990fx). the newer 9500 fx can only run on few mb with over sized vrms. amd newer cpu are mostly apu now. the intel x9x chipset will take the haswell or newer brodwell cpu. intel is killing off the 1150 mb when skywell drops next year (1151) pin mb on the x100 chipset. the amd fx mb is 2 years old. the intel mb you have the newer sata m2 connector if you need a faster ssd. the intel mb all have pci 3.0 slots now. older amd chipset dont do sata 6g or pci 3.0. intel cpu core is also better for gaming.

Thanks Microc!   Though I don't completely understand everything you said, it looks good to me.   

I'm reading that the intel cpu....though it looks "slower" to my eyes...will actually work better for reasons of upgradeablity?   I ask this because I tend to hang onto a build for years.   If the other cpu is faster it won't matter much to me since I'm likely to still have it in 5 years.  (I'm just now leaving Win XP behind!)   

[mrultimate]

As far as store bought machines go what is the word on the Dell XPS 8700 series?

[microc]

dell like that you need to replace the power supply and the video card. the 720 is slower then 750ti and most dells have undersized power supplys.

[Harpospoke]

So I'm buying pieces at a time.

Got Win 7 and a solid-state drive sitting here.   What is the best course of action to install Win 7 on the SSD and reformat the old HD?  (everything is backed up)

[JennSpace]

I don't want to be a bad luck crow but I heard there are chances that if City of Heroes come back, it might run on the Unreal engine 4 so we'll all need a better computer than what we needed to run CoX on maximum settings! If I read well between the lines, if the deal between Missing Worlds Media and NCSoft goes through, they'd re-release City as CoH 1.5 or 2 with better graphics using all the content the people working on the Atlas Park Revival already rebuilt using Unreal. I hope I didn't lose any of you in this mess of an explanation XDD but that's why I'm holding off on buying a new computer before I get the confirmation we'll get our game back and I know the definitive specs needed to run it on maximum settings. That's a lot of if and might but it's a real possibility and personally, I don't want to take any chance! I'm just hoping your computer will be strong enough no matter what happens Harpospoke, I wish you only that.

[Jorge Firebomb]

It is my understanding that the deal currently being pursued would be the Issue 23 server image being setup to run as a small, possibly non-profit company. Separately from that, would be the possibility of reverse engineering the existing game engine to run on Unreal 4 as a CoH 1.5 sort of thing to allow for running on Windows 10 or later, though this effort would take a significant amount of time, possibly years depending on how large of a team worked on it. Since the Atlas Park Revival is using Unreal 4, the possibility exists of expanding that project to be a true CoH 1.5, which could then have changes made to the game such as including Issue 24 content or other additions. This CoH 1.5 would hopefully allow for migration of characters from the Issue 23 server, though that is far from guaranteed even if the deal does progress in this fashion.

[JennSpace]

It is my understanding that the deal currently being pursued would be the Issue 23 server image being setup to run as a small, possibly non-profit company. Separately from that, would be the possibility of reverse engineering the existing game engine to run on Unreal 4 as a CoH 1.5 sort of thing to allow for running on Windows 10 or later, though this effort would take a significant amount of time, possibly years depending on how large of a team worked on it. Since the Atlas Park Revival is using Unreal 4, the possibility exists of expanding that project to be a true CoH 1.5, which could then have changes made to the game such as including Issue 24 content or other additions. This CoH 1.5 would hopefully allow for migration of characters from the Issue 23 server, though that is far from guaranteed even if the deal does progress in this fashion.

That's much better explained Jorge, thanks! I know Irish_Girl who's working on the Atlas Park Revival project said they were only 3 working on the project right now but they're waiting for the results of the negociations and knowing in which direction to go before expanding the team. :O I'm with you on the project taking a significant amount of time, I have a feeling it won't be before fall 2015 judging from the pictures I saw. It's advancing extremely well but the world of CoX is gigantic!! And they're just 3 rebuilding all that.

[Harpospoke]

I don't want to be a bad luck crow but I heard there are chances that if City of Heroes come back, it might run on the Unreal engine 4 so we'll all need a better computer than what we needed to run CoX on maximum settings!

I might be wrong on this, but I could have sworn I heard that UR4 puts less of a load on a computer than CoX did.   So we might all be in great shape on that one.

but that's why I'm holding off on buying a new computer before I get the confirmation we'll get our game back and I know the definitive specs needed to run it on maximum settings. That's a lot of if and might but it's a real possibility and personally, I don't want to take any chance! I'm just hoping your computer will be strong enough no matter what happens Harpospoke, I wish you only that.

Well, I just took my first step.   Running Win 7 now (and it's pretty cool) on a brand new SSD right now.   Gonna keep adding stuff until I get the whole thing built. 

[microc]

for your windows 7 install on a ssd and the hard drive having data on it. the easy way is plug in just the data cable to the ssd and run windows installer. after windows installs fine on the ssd turn the pc off and plug in the data cable for the hard drive then boot into bios and set the ssd as the first boot hard drive. you have to reinstall your aps and games you have to pick C: for ssd speed or D: or the drive letter windows makes for the other hard drive. to wipe the other drive after your data off of it is use windows disk management inside of windows.

[Harpospoke]

for your windows 7 install on a ssd and the hard drive having data on it. the easy way is plug in just the data cable to the ssd and run windows installer. after windows installs fine on the ssd turn the pc off and plug in the data cable for the hard drive then boot into bios and set the ssd as the first boot hard drive. you have to reinstall your aps and games you have to pick C: for ssd speed or D: or the drive letter windows makes for the other hard drive. to wipe the other drive after your data off of it is use windows disk management inside of windows.

Thanks micro.   That was pretty much what I did.  Really simple and fast.    The cool thing was that Win 7 actually fixed the bios settings for me during the install.  I just sat there and watched.

The only thing I'm still working on is that so many programs don't give me the option to install them on the old HD and instead install on the SSD.    Like Google Chrome for instance.   I'm not in love with the idea of Chrome piling up junk files on the SSD.    I suppose the upside is that it will be really easy to reformat and reinstall Win 7 later if needed.    (Which I will have to do when I get around to replacing the motherboard/processor.)