Building a New Desktop...

[Paulitious]

[Ankhammon]

A couple questions for you. Are you looking at just replacing a computer you already have or also the mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer? This will affect the price if you plan on building yourself.

I know you stated you could potentially spend a little more, can you give a fixed amount of that more? I'm asking because computers can go very high if you want what is referred to as "bleeding edge" technology.

What else are you planning on using your new PC for?

Ultimately, when building your own PC (or buying) you want to know what you are planning to use it for and for how long you intend it to exist. How much security do you intend to have on the system?

Just give us what you can for answers and I'll see if I can help you.

One thing I will tell you is that with "already built" computer pricing you might be better off buying one there cost/effort wise. The more advanced PCs are cheaper to build then buy outright, but for the standard user it's the other way around generally.
Now if you want to build one yourself just for the experience, disregard the last paragraph.

[Paulitious]

A couple questions for you. Are you looking at just replacing a computer you already have or also the mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer? This will affect the price if you plan on building yourself

First off, thank you for responding Ankhammon!

I'm pretty much just looking to replace the computer I already have, which is a very old Dell laptop. It is so old that I am using a wireless keyboard & mouse (alongside a HDTV as a monitor) in order for it to retain basic functionality. All the aforementioned hardware can obviously be transferred over and I have no need or desire for a printer currently.

I know you stated you could potentially spend a little more, can you give a fixed amount of that more? I'm asking because computers can go very high if you want what is referred to as "bleeding edge" technology.

Well, I would say that my absolute limit would fall around the €750 - 800 mark but that would really be pushing it, I think.

What else are you planning on using your new PC for?

I work for an electronic engineering magazine (the irony is not lost on me) called Elektor, so I would primarily use the desktop to work from home. I do some editing and voice-acting using mostly freeware such as Open Office, Audacity and Inkscape. Aside from that, most of my computer usage is rather passive; reading E-books/comics
, watching movies and playing music. So, home entertainment, I guess? I hope that all makes sense?

Ultimately, when building your own PC (or buying) you want to know what you are planning to use it for and for how long you intend it to exist. How much security do you intend to have on the system?

Hm. I think I'd like a system that has some longevity, so that's I'm able to upgrade the necessary parts should a new MMO take my fancy. Also, having a machine that helps me to become more au fait with the maintenance and enhancement would be quite useful for the future. However, a PC that allows me to play a resurrected CoX (with high settings) and maybe CO/TSW as well would more than satisfy me, since they're games in which I have specific interest of varying intensity.

I'm not really sure what you mean by security. If I've misunderstood the question, please let me know!

Just give us what you can for answers and I'll see if I can help you.

One thing I will tell you is that with "already built" computer pricing you might be better off buying one there cost/effort wise. The more advanced PCs are cheaper to build then buy outright, but for the standard user it's the other way around generally.
Now if you want to build one yourself just for the experience, disregard the last paragraph.

Hm. I intend to give all the parts I purchase to my colleagues who work in the lab to construct so, while I would like to gain some experience in the area of construction, I would be lying if I suggested that it is my main focus at this point. I just want a rig that plays what I tell it to with good performance.

My only concern is that an "already built" computer might have inferior parts or end up draining funds I could have applied elsewhere. I'm so uninformed on the issue that these fears could be entirely unfounded.

Thanks for your help so far! I feel a little more at ease already. Before making this topic I was seriously considering getting a PS4 and a subscription to DCUO. Please, don't let it come to that!

P

[Arcana]

Honestly, MMOs do not tend to push the limits of computer technology, so anything you build or buy that is remotely reasonable would play CoH or CO fine.  Keep in mind that the computer I purchased in 2010 played CoH at maximum everything.  Today, if it was ported properly an iPhone 5 could probably play CoH at reasonable settings.

There are some very good system builders lurking around here that can make excellent recommendations, and while I'm a decent builder myself I'm not really aware of european issues of price and availability.  One thing I can suggest as a baseline to look at unless and until a solid recommendation comes in is the arstechnica system builder's guide, which they update semi-annually I think.  The latest is here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/ars-technica-system-guide-august-2014/

They generally make three basic recommendations for systems, what they call the budget box, the hot rod, and the god box.  The budget box is a decent personal computer that can play most games reasonably well and do other basic tasks.  The hot rod is the power user box that has more power than the average person needs and can do computationally and graphically intensive things very well.  The god box is the "money is no object what's the best I can reasonably do without going cuckoo" system.  The budget box target cost in parts is about $700, the hot rod about $1200, and the god box has fluctuated between $5000 and $12000.  For you, something between the budget box and the hot rod seems to be within your price range, depending on current pricing.

If nothing else, the thought process put into the choice of parts is something worth reading, just to give you an idea of the kinds of things a system designer thinks about (and the kinds of questions someone might ask when designing one for you).

[Ankhammon]

[Paulitious]

Honestly, MMOs do not tend to push the limits of computer technology, so anything you build or buy that is remotely reasonable would play CoH or CO fine.  Keep in mind that the computer I purchased in 2010 played CoH at maximum everything.  Today, if it was ported properly an iPhone 5 could probably play CoH at reasonable settings.

That is very good to read, Arcana. Thanks!

My ultimate goal will always be to play CoX again, but knowing I could play CO in the meantime would provide me much comfort. I would love to play TSW and perhaps make it my main MMO, but it seems much more demanding in regards of PC specifications than either CoX or CO.

There are some very good system builders lurking around here that can make excellent recommendations, and while I'm a decent builder myself I'm not really aware of european issues of price and availability.  One thing I can suggest as a baseline to look at unless and until a solid recommendation comes in is the arstechnica system builder's guide, which they update semi-annually I think.  The latest is here: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/ars-technica-system-guide-august-2014/

They generally make three basic recommendations for systems, what they call the budget box, the hot rod, and the god box.  The budget box is a decent personal computer that can play most games reasonably well and do other basic tasks.  The hot rod is the power user box that has more power than the average person needs and can do computationally and graphically intensive things very well.  The god box is the "money is no object what's the best I can reasonably do without going cuckoo" system.  The budget box target cost in parts is about $700, the hot rod about $1200, and the god box has fluctuated between $5000 and $12000.  For you, something between the budget box and the hot rod seems to be within your price range, depending on current pricing.

The link you provided is very helpful, thank you. I shall peruse it more deeply whilst at work tomorrow. I've thus far been wary of trusting sources with whom I cannot engage a dialogue, since much of the language they use I cannot fully comprehend and I do not wish to start copy-pasting their suggested parts into my eventual purchase without some feedback along the way. However, since you attest to their name, I'll bookmark the page and keep it in mind (:

OK. So it looks like we are pricing between 600-850 Euros which will probably get you a decent system (depending on taxes and stuff I have no idea about ).

Your basic peripheral needs are all there which will cut the cost by quite a bit. You are not looking to replace headphones/speakers/mic?

I am already equipped with some very nice speakers & headphones, so will not need to replace them and my workplace provides me with some very agreeable microphones too.

Are you looking to get into a good sound card? Was the sound card in your old system adequate?

I don't think I'm that bothered about having a good sound card. It's certainly not a priority for me, as long as it enables me to perform all my basic audio recording tasks and enjoy various recreational media. I can always upgrade it at a later date, should I require, no?

Are you into things like recording for youtube or anything like that? You would have to consider this for your HD space and probably some other considerations too (graphics card, cpu and possibly other considerations).

I have never even uploaded a video to Youtube, let alone recorded something. I do have some interest in becoming more adept with various image editing software, but video work is outside of my interests.

For security, I was referring to things like antivirus, firewall, router, surge protector or other hardware/software that you might use or need for your new system.

Security isn't a huge priority for me. However, I do wish to physically protect my desktop from the most common causes of malfunction, so will defer to outside advice on the importance of such hardware. Is anti-virus software really necessary? Would I be a fool to forgo it?

The games you've listed are not high end (anymore) and won't require a really expensive video card, so that's good news.

This makes me very happy. Are you also including TSW in that statement?

I will tell you that I used to build my own PCs, but I found that doing smaller things like buying a decent system and adding a video card (maybe swapping out power supplies) got the job done for much less than I could do building from scratch.
By the time you've invested in the pc and the software you have to purchase you start to realize that a good store bought system makes a lot of sense unless you need the advanced tech for some reason. Such as a high end sound card for professional voice over work.

Fortunately, I am paid for my voice alone, rather than my skill at capturing it. All the real audio magic is done by our in-house producer, so my requirements regarding a sound-card are nothing out of the ordinary.

I still feel somewhat precarious about venturing near store-bought machines; old prejudices die hard. I hope this additional information I have provided will help you advise me further.

Thank you for your responses, Arcana and Ankhammon! I had no expected such a swift and informed response

[microc]

[microc]

[microc]

with anti virus there few free ones out there avg and avast. every year they do tested list of anti virus and there rating. malware bytes is for malware. most mb now have good sound cards..I would use the onboard sound first then try a asus or soundbaster card. one build has a slower cpu and a ssd for fast boot speed. for gpu I would wait till the 960 drops.

[Ankhammon]

let me start by saying that Microc has some pretty nice ideas (I like the first one except Windows 8 ).

Before you go this route (baking from scratch), make absolutely sure that your people are comfortable with placing a motherboard into a case. Some techies actually don't do this. If not, you can buy a tower which includes the case with a motherboard and power supply attached.

What OS are you currently using? Is it Windows 7 or 8? The reason I'm asking is that Windows went a different direction with windows 8 that left many people (me included) feeling cold about it. Basically, they made the usage feel like a tablet or other device that does not use keyboard/mouse (but you can still use them). The whole thing was just odd to me.
If you don't like that kind of thing you can still get a version of Windows 7 for your new pc.
From what you've said, sounds like the home version of either would work for you, but the professional versions offer more options.

Using an antivirus (with a firewall in it) would be something I would highly recommend. The last thing you want to do is get everything working on your pc and for it to be the first day CoH was back (praying) and then you get hit with a virus and your OS goes boom.
I've been using Eset for a while now and it seems to be doing the job. It has an advantage of using a newer algorithm to look for viruses which is easier on gamers. Companies like McAfee use an older algorithm that's more akin to brute force, effective but uses considerable amount of resources (you can get lag).

Last word is that there is a huge amount of difference in graphics cards and the prices. You can go cheaper than Microc suggested, but from what I've read it's a pretty good card.

Hmmm... maybe I can buy this setup for myself and use Win 3.11... have to  get a floppy drive too...

[SerialBeggar]

I subscribe to MaximumPC magazine to keep up with computer tech.  You can peruse their website which includes articles from the magazine. 
http://www.maximumpc.com/

[microc]

there also toms hardware system builders guild.

[Microcosm]

I personally agree with microc on the sound card, totally an upgrade you make at a later time if you really want it. I'm not going to add to all the advice you're already getting in this thread (don't want to drown you with different opinions), but I will say if you really want to be able to maintain your system in the future, you should consider doing the actual building of it yourself, maybe with one of your lab friends as a guide.

[Paulitious]

[Arcana]

I can make neither head nor tail of this statement, I'm sorry 

microc's first build uses a somewhat slower CPU (the 3.2 GHz Pentium as opposed to the 3.5Ghz Core-i5 - not only is the clock slower but the Pentium has only two cores as opposed to the four cores in the I5 - its like having two processors instead of four although many games would not use all of that CPU power either way).  But it adds an SSD flash drive on top of the normal hard drive which can significantly speed up overall disk performance: Windows can be configured to use some of that space to cache the files it uses most when it boots up, greatly speeding up booting and starting up.  It can also use that space to accelerate access to commonly used files.

The 960 he refers to is I believe the NVIDIA 960 GTX video card, which should be releasing any day now (probably in October).  If I understand correctly (I don't follow NVIDIA consumer gpu releases very closely) the 960 is intended to be targeted at the lower end of that generation of gpu technology, and would be the basis of the more affordable cards using the latest NVIDIA technology, which should make them better bang for buck.

[Fridgy Daiere]

...

I currently use Windows 7 and find it manageable.

...

I'd love some second (or third) opinions on the first build microc suggested. If most people think it's the most effective use of my budget, then I'll probably go with it. Any more feeback is truly welcomed!

Did you purchase a retail copy of Windows 7 for your old computer?  If so (and you're not going to use the old computer anymore), you can just install it on the new one to save some money.

...

In my experience, while an aftermarket CPU cooler offers better cooling than the one that comes with your CPU, most people don't need one as long as they're not overclocking.

The GeForce GTX 760 in microc's list is comparable to the Radeon r9 270, but is between 40-50 Euros more expensive.  And for those who keep up with such things, yes, I understand that the 270 gives slightly less performance than the 760, but it is still sufficient for all of his needs as outlined in his posts at a significant price reduction.

The GeForce GTX 960 microc mentions waiting for is rumored to make its debut on the market at around 250 USD, which is 196 Euros according to Google.

Paulitious, to put the video card thing into perspective, I bought a Radeon HD 5770 in 2011 which would play CoX in Ultra Mode (medium settings) without lag except for league and giant monster situations.  Today, it is still able to play every game my husband throws at it, most of them with high settings.  The 5770 has only half of the memory of and is *5 steps below* the cheapest card mentioned here on chart I linked to above.

[LadyVamp]

microc's 2nd system looks interesting.  The windows 8, at least right now, can still be downgraded to windows 7.  Microsoft is about to close that option off for new machines though.  Time is short on the downgrade option though.  Support for windows 7 is slated to last until Jan 2020.

About the SSD on the first build, I looked at that drive as a possible for my esxi system at home.  I ended up shying away from it.  The performance increase would have been nice since esxi 5.5 can use the ssd for enhancing disk access.  It can also handle gracefully the failure of the device.  The issue was with the device itself.  If your OS support the trim command, the evo can last for many years giving great performance.  If not, it doesn't take long before the performance drops and its life it reduced.  If you are interested in ssds, stick with the intel 340 series.  The drives are prosumer or better and will stand up to use without trim support.

[Paulitious]

[Arcana]

About the SSD on the first build, I looked at that drive as a possible for my esxi system at home.  I ended up shying away from it.  The performance increase would have been nice since esxi 5.5 can use the ssd for enhancing disk access.  It can also handle gracefully the failure of the device.  The issue was with the device itself.  If your OS support the trim command, the evo can last for many years giving great performance.  If not, it doesn't take long before the performance drops and its life it reduced.  If you are interested in ssds, stick with the intel 340 series.  The drives are prosumer or better and will stand up to use without trim support.

As far as I know, every version of Windows from Win7 on up supports trim.  I'm not familiar with the Intel 340; did you mean the Intel 335 or 520?

Personally I'm using a pair of 840 EVO 1TB drives in my work system, and they work great.  Also, for people interested in SSD endurance, I've been following Tech Report's tests for a while now: http://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment.  They are up to 1.5 PB as of a week ago: http://techreport.com/review/27062/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-only-two-remain-after-1-5pb.  Very interesting reading.

[Fridgy Daiere]

I fell down a rabbit hole after reading the articles Arcana posted and found this.  The "Sweet Spot" build  would clock in a bit over your new budget, but you could swap to a less expensive case and drop the sound card to fix that.

Also, a list can be found here which includes online computer part stores in your country.  Happy building!

[HEATSTROKE]

[microc]

when your looking at builds and doing your list. have a little cheat sheet on things your looking for or want the pc to do. as a tech for a long time and a pc builder I seen pitfalls of some builds and have made my own errors over the years. the stock intel cooler is not a bad cooler if intel stopped making it out of plastic and use cheap push pins. I seen a lot of new builders snap a leg off the cooler or have 3 of the four push pins in tight. I also find that the push pin coolers can fall off the mb real easy over time. the better coolers air ones have a back plate and screws. gpu and power supply's. power supply 12v rail is the main rail today both the cpu and gpu use it. buy an under sized or cheap unit and your rig can lock up or reboot or become unstable.
also sizing it to small would make you replace it latter if you put in a larger gpu. newer power supplys now have fans that ramp up when the units get warm. buying a slightly larger units keeps these fan from not turning on or running slow and quiet. with gpu you dont want to just build the gaming pc for coh..if you do and try play other games you have wasted your money.
so you dont get lost what I trying to say is if you look at amd 7770/260/270 line.
before the 7770 was the 6770 5770 4770. ect. with each newer rev of the card the gpu got faster but they also are now using less power and run cooler. the gpu core tech changes with each newer rev. read up on amd tonga and nvidia maxwell. coh graphics right now are old and the engin is old so a lot of low and mid size cards can run the game at a good fps. the issue now is there going to use the newer unreal engine for coh 1.5. what I dont want to see happen is when your in a larger mob fight like a rikit spaceship raid..you cant move and are dying and running back to the ship over and over. under powered gpu will run hot under heavy game load and you player will just be lagging out. (bad fps). that why toms hardware and other review sites use gaming pc and stock games to show base line fps of gpus. one other thing to watch out for is fan noise. 120mm fans if run at 100 percent can over time be to loud for some people. motherboards with pmw 4 pin case pins they can control the speed better then a 3 pin voltage fan. if you do want more fans then fan ports are on the mb then look at a 5 channel fan controller and plug all the fans into it. you can then turn the fans up or down. one last warning..cases with a lot of led....make great night lights...but hard to sleep. I have 2 foot nxzt green led strip...my condo people know when I late night gaming (my unit glows bright green at night). also look into a good head set...loud gaming at 2am make for the police to show up at your door.

[LadyVamp]

As far as I know, every version of Windows from Win7 on up supports trim.  I'm not familiar with the Intel 340; did you mean the Intel 335 or 520?

Personally I'm using a pair of 840 EVO 1TB drives in my work system, and they work great.  Also, for people interested in SSD endurance, I've been following Tech Report's tests for a while now: http://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment.  They are up to 1.5 PB as of a week ago: http://techreport.com/review/27062/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-only-two-remain-after-1-5pb.  Very interesting reading.

Yes.  thanks.  I meant the 520 line.  I very rarely use windows anymore preferring vmware's esxi, centos (rhel clone), and freebsd platforms.  rhel and clones do support the trim command even if you do device wide encryption using luks.  Does require adding some parameters to the mounts. zfs is claimed to be friendly to ssds.  recommendations I've been seeing are to use hdd for storage and put the zil on the ssd.

I haven't tried an ssd yet though I am interested in them.

[Arcana]

Yes.  thanks.  I meant the 520 line.  I very rarely use windows anymore preferring vmware's esxi, centos (rhel clone), and freebsd platforms.  rhel and clones do support the trim command even if you do device wide encryption using luks.  Does require adding some parameters to the mounts. zfs is claimed to be friendly to ssds.  recommendations I've been seeing are to use hdd for storage and put the zil on the ssd.

I haven't tried an ssd yet though I am interested in them.

When specing zil, be aware that 1) async writes don't use the zil and 2) low latency is the most important thing.  Look for the lowest latency write speeds for slog devices (offloaded zil).  Read speeds are totally irrelevant for slog devices because ZFS never reads the slog except after power failure (its a common misconception that slogs need fast read performance when ZFS basically never reads the slog at all, it only writes to it except when the system suffers a crash or power faillure).  We use ZeusRAM for slogs in our higher performance ZFS arrays and symmetric or read-optimized SSDs for L2ARC (actually, the 520s are pretty good for L2ARC).

ZFS handles SSD well in one respect: its a copy on write filesystem, and that means no matter how much you (try to) write and rewrite and rewrite the same data blocks repeatedly, those writes will actually get written to other blocks and not overwrite the same blocks.  This prevents concentrated wearing out of cells, but it creates a potential problem: write leveling.  Because every cell is written to about the same number of times as ZFS continuously overwrites blocks, you could have the case of all of them wearing out about the same time.  You have to be careful about that when monitoring the health of SSD drives backing copy on write filesystems (ZFS is not the only such filesystem: btrfs is also copy on write).

None of this has anything to do with someone building a new PC running Windows for the first time, so I would advise anyone reading the thread for that purpose to just ignore all of this: its not relevant to that exercise in any way.

[Harpospoke]

Good reading here.   

I'm shopping around on ebay for a copy of Win 7.   I notice I can get an "upgrade" cheaper.   From what I understand, upgrading from Win XP means you lose all your installed programs.   If that's the only downside, no problem...I can reinstall everything I need with no problem.

Would it be better to get a full copy of Win 7 or is an upgrade just as good?

[microc]

the upgrade cd is a full version os it just looks for xp or one of the os that is a qualifying upgrade. one issue with xp and windows 7 is xp most times uses ntfs partions for data security and windows 7 uses newer fat 32 for larger hard drives. windows 7 can run on ntfs. most times when you run the upgrade os it backs up the old os to a win.bac folder that just waste space on your drive. from a tech side your better off buying full version of windows and then removing all of the partions and data and then let windows make new restore and data partion. before you do this have google drive account and move your personal files off the pc and onto the cloud. google drive puts itself into windows explorer and it drag and drop your files onto google. the other issue is make sure you have a cd or usb stick with the motherboard chipset drivers and video and ethernet and printer drivers and any other hardware the pc has. if your switching from xp microsoft may have free windows 10 upgrade path for you. right now windows 10 beta you can download it and kick the tires. most betat and rtm will expire in 180 days. if you dont care to wipe and reinstall your os it can be fun to see if you like the os before you buy.

[Harpospoke]

the upgrade cd is a full version os it just looks for xp or one of the os that is a qualifying upgrade. one issue with xp and windows 7 is xp most times uses ntfs partions for data security and windows 7 uses newer fat 32 for larger hard drives. windows 7 can run on ntfs. most times when you run the upgrade os it backs up the old os to a win.bac folder that just waste space on your drive. from a tech side your better off buying full version of windows and then removing all of the partions and data and then let windows make new restore and data partion. before you do this have google drive account and move your personal files off the pc and onto the cloud. google drive puts itself into windows explorer and it drag and drop your files onto google. the other issue is make sure you have a cd or usb stick with the motherboard chipset drivers and video and ethernet and printer drivers and any other hardware the pc has. if your switching from xp microsoft may have free windows 10 upgrade path for you. right now windows 10 beta you can download it and kick the tires. most betat and rtm will expire in 180 days. if you dont care to wipe and reinstall your os it can be fun to see if you like the os before you buy.

Thanks!     It shouldn't be too expensive to find a full version of Win 7 on ebay.

I've got all my stuff backed up on a separate HD so I'm covered there.  I'll look into google drive anyway to see if there are advantages there.

[Harpospoke]

So anyone have an opinions on this build?   I'm settling around the $700-$800 mark.   I don't know how important that issue with the case not being quite big enough for the video card might be. 

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/P7YVf7

(do we need a sticky thread for "new builds" and "computer advice" in lieu of a looming need for new gaming rigs?)

[microc]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DtzP7P
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DtzP7P/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($159.99 @ Micro Center)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($28.99 @ Micro Center)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($137.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: *Mushkin Stealth 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.42 @ Amazon)
Storage: *Hitachi Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($47.49 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 270X 2GB DEVIL Video Card  ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $798.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-09 14:10 EDT-0400

[microc]

the amd cpu is not bad for a entry gaming system. the issue is amd has kileld of the fx line and the cpu board that it was on (990/990fx). the newer 9500 fx can only run on few mb with over sized vrms. amd newer cpu are mostly apu now. the intel x9x chipset will take the haswell or newer brodwell cpu. intel is killing off the 1150 mb when skywell drops next year (1151) pin mb on the x100 chipset. the amd fx mb is 2 years old. the intel mb you have the newer sata m2 connector if you need a faster ssd. the intel mb all have pci 3.0 slots now. older amd chipset dont do sata 6g or pci 3.0. intel cpu core is also better for gaming.

[Harpospoke]

the amd cpu is not bad for a entry gaming system. the issue is amd has kileld of the fx line and the cpu board that it was on (990/990fx). the newer 9500 fx can only run on few mb with over sized vrms. amd newer cpu are mostly apu now. the intel x9x chipset will take the haswell or newer brodwell cpu. intel is killing off the 1150 mb when skywell drops next year (1151) pin mb on the x100 chipset. the amd fx mb is 2 years old. the intel mb you have the newer sata m2 connector if you need a faster ssd. the intel mb all have pci 3.0 slots now. older amd chipset dont do sata 6g or pci 3.0. intel cpu core is also better for gaming.

Thanks Microc!   Though I don't completely understand everything you said, it looks good to me.   

I'm reading that the intel cpu....though it looks "slower" to my eyes...will actually work better for reasons of upgradeablity?   I ask this because I tend to hang onto a build for years.   If the other cpu is faster it won't matter much to me since I'm likely to still have it in 5 years.  (I'm just now leaving Win XP behind!)   

[mrultimate]

As far as store bought machines go what is the word on the Dell XPS 8700 series?

[microc]

dell like that you need to replace the power supply and the video card. the 720 is slower then 750ti and most dells have undersized power supplys.

[Harpospoke]

So I'm buying pieces at a time.

Got Win 7 and a solid-state drive sitting here.   What is the best course of action to install Win 7 on the SSD and reformat the old HD?  (everything is backed up)

[JennSpace]

I don't want to be a bad luck crow but I heard there are chances that if City of Heroes come back, it might run on the Unreal engine 4 so we'll all need a better computer than what we needed to run CoX on maximum settings! If I read well between the lines, if the deal between Missing Worlds Media and NCSoft goes through, they'd re-release City as CoH 1.5 or 2 with better graphics using all the content the people working on the Atlas Park Revival already rebuilt using Unreal. I hope I didn't lose any of you in this mess of an explanation XDD but that's why I'm holding off on buying a new computer before I get the confirmation we'll get our game back and I know the definitive specs needed to run it on maximum settings. That's a lot of if and might but it's a real possibility and personally, I don't want to take any chance! I'm just hoping your computer will be strong enough no matter what happens Harpospoke, I wish you only that.

[Jorge Firebomb]

It is my understanding that the deal currently being pursued would be the Issue 23 server image being setup to run as a small, possibly non-profit company. Separately from that, would be the possibility of reverse engineering the existing game engine to run on Unreal 4 as a CoH 1.5 sort of thing to allow for running on Windows 10 or later, though this effort would take a significant amount of time, possibly years depending on how large of a team worked on it. Since the Atlas Park Revival is using Unreal 4, the possibility exists of expanding that project to be a true CoH 1.5, which could then have changes made to the game such as including Issue 24 content or other additions. This CoH 1.5 would hopefully allow for migration of characters from the Issue 23 server, though that is far from guaranteed even if the deal does progress in this fashion.

[JennSpace]

It is my understanding that the deal currently being pursued would be the Issue 23 server image being setup to run as a small, possibly non-profit company. Separately from that, would be the possibility of reverse engineering the existing game engine to run on Unreal 4 as a CoH 1.5 sort of thing to allow for running on Windows 10 or later, though this effort would take a significant amount of time, possibly years depending on how large of a team worked on it. Since the Atlas Park Revival is using Unreal 4, the possibility exists of expanding that project to be a true CoH 1.5, which could then have changes made to the game such as including Issue 24 content or other additions. This CoH 1.5 would hopefully allow for migration of characters from the Issue 23 server, though that is far from guaranteed even if the deal does progress in this fashion.

That's much better explained Jorge, thanks! I know Irish_Girl who's working on the Atlas Park Revival project said they were only 3 working on the project right now but they're waiting for the results of the negociations and knowing in which direction to go before expanding the team. :O I'm with you on the project taking a significant amount of time, I have a feeling it won't be before fall 2015 judging from the pictures I saw. It's advancing extremely well but the world of CoX is gigantic!! And they're just 3 rebuilding all that.

[Harpospoke]

I don't want to be a bad luck crow but I heard there are chances that if City of Heroes come back, it might run on the Unreal engine 4 so we'll all need a better computer than what we needed to run CoX on maximum settings!

I might be wrong on this, but I could have sworn I heard that UR4 puts less of a load on a computer than CoX did.   So we might all be in great shape on that one.

but that's why I'm holding off on buying a new computer before I get the confirmation we'll get our game back and I know the definitive specs needed to run it on maximum settings. That's a lot of if and might but it's a real possibility and personally, I don't want to take any chance! I'm just hoping your computer will be strong enough no matter what happens Harpospoke, I wish you only that.

Well, I just took my first step.   Running Win 7 now (and it's pretty cool) on a brand new SSD right now.   Gonna keep adding stuff until I get the whole thing built. 

[microc]

for your windows 7 install on a ssd and the hard drive having data on it. the easy way is plug in just the data cable to the ssd and run windows installer. after windows installs fine on the ssd turn the pc off and plug in the data cable for the hard drive then boot into bios and set the ssd as the first boot hard drive. you have to reinstall your aps and games you have to pick C: for ssd speed or D: or the drive letter windows makes for the other hard drive. to wipe the other drive after your data off of it is use windows disk management inside of windows.

[Harpospoke]

for your windows 7 install on a ssd and the hard drive having data on it. the easy way is plug in just the data cable to the ssd and run windows installer. after windows installs fine on the ssd turn the pc off and plug in the data cable for the hard drive then boot into bios and set the ssd as the first boot hard drive. you have to reinstall your aps and games you have to pick C: for ssd speed or D: or the drive letter windows makes for the other hard drive. to wipe the other drive after your data off of it is use windows disk management inside of windows.

Thanks micro.   That was pretty much what I did.  Really simple and fast.    The cool thing was that Win 7 actually fixed the bios settings for me during the install.  I just sat there and watched.

The only thing I'm still working on is that so many programs don't give me the option to install them on the old HD and instead install on the SSD.    Like Google Chrome for instance.   I'm not in love with the idea of Chrome piling up junk files on the SSD.    I suppose the upside is that it will be really easy to reformat and reinstall Win 7 later if needed.    (Which I will have to do when I get around to replacing the motherboard/processor.)

[HEATSTROKE]

I don't want to be a bad luck crow but I heard there are chances that if City of Heroes come back, it might run on the Unreal engine 4 so we'll all need a better computer than what we needed to run CoX on maximum settings!

Well from what I understand Unreal Engine 4 requirements arent as high as some people are expecting.. and I wont need a new computer at all.. and I rarely if ever play at the highest settings..

[HEATSTROKE]

How big is your SSD ??

[Harpospoke]

How big is your SSD ??

120 gb

[microc]

harp with any program now you have to do an advance install and then tell it to install it on the hard drive. when you redo the drive and aps I try and make folders like games then install all the games into the games folder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/284934-32-tips-users#t1929070
with an ssd drive you have to leave room for wear leveling and clean up.

[Harpospoke]

harp with any program now you have to do an advance install and then tell it to install it on the hard drive. when you redo the drive and aps I try and make folders like games then install all the games into the games folder.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/284934-32-tips-users#t1929070
with an ssd drive you have to leave room for wear leveling and clean up.

Thanks!   Looks like a lot of reading ahead of me. 

[Harpospoke]

Wow...just switching to Win 7, a SSD, and a new video card has really improved my PC.   I guess I'll really be happy when I get the new motherboard, processor, and ram.

Bring on Ultra-Mode!

[JennSpace]

Wow...just switching to Win 7, a SSD, and a new video card has really improved my PC.   I guess I'll really be happy when I get the new motherboard, processor, and ram.

Bring on Ultra-Mode!

What did you get and how muchdid it cost you again? My old laptop just dieu and I need a new computer too... XD

[Harpospoke]

What did you get and how muchdid it cost you again? My old laptop just dieu and I need a new computer too... XD

Found Win 7 on Ebay for around $60.   

Got the video card listed in the build in this thread....it's also listed in an article "best video cards under $200" I read:  PowerColor Radeon R9 270X 2GB DEVIL Video Card  ($169.99 @ Newegg)

Spent about $60 on the SSD...120gb.   Several choices there.

I can take my time getting the MB and processor since those boosted my PC so much.   I'll just enjoy it for a while and then step up even more later.   ...Of course I'll get in a bigger hurry there if we hear some CoH good news. 

[microc]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ynHdJx
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ynHdJx/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($59.99 @ Micro Center)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($99.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($79.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Toshiba Product Series:DT01ACA 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($70.00 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer  ($14.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $434.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-28 03:43 EDT-0400
this will make a great entry level gaming pc. the g3258 and z97 mb is 99.00 combo deal at micro center. if there not a local micro center near you then swap out the z97 for h97 mb for savings. the intel mb will drop in another 150 cpu if you need it. left off the gpu for now as the intel cpu has onboard video. 22-24 inch monitors run 100-150.

[JennSpace]

Found Win 7 on Ebay for around $60.   

Got the video card listed in the build in this thread....it's also listed in an article "best video cards under $200" I read:  PowerColor Radeon R9 270X 2GB DEVIL Video Card  ($169.99 @ Newegg)

Spent about $60 on the SSD...120gb.   Several choices there.

I can take my time getting the MB and processor since those boosted my PC so much.   I'll just enjoy it for a while and then step up even more later.   ...Of course I'll get in a bigger hurry there if we hear some CoH good news. 

Thanks Harpospoke, it will definetely help me when I buy my new computer! I decided against getting another laptop because I don't outside my apartment (at all. lol) and I can get home pcs for cheaper. XD It's like my Sony Xperia blabla bla, yes I can do practically anything with it but I use NONE of it's super functions!! It's crazy how much money you can spend when you ask yourself : ''Do I really need this?'' before buying something. When my contract with Virgin expires in 8 months, I'll switch to a mobile all that is most basic and save over $40 per month!

Also, thanks Microc for the very nice build! I don't plan to buy my new home pc before a short while (cribbled with debts... ^^' lol) but once I'm free of all that, I'll check all those websites you mentionned and get a nice machine built, for me. 

[microc]

when your account for your phone is up look at att pay and you go company caleld cricket wireless. I just join them...25.00 a month for unlimited basic phone and text. only cost is 10.00 for there sim card. also on pc parts take as look at newegg dyi pc they toss together some parts at good price once and a while. also if a few months brodwell and skylake from intel may be dropping so you may be able to pick up an older haswell i5 at close out prices. if you do buy a dell or hp make sure you replace the power supply if your going to put in a higher wattage gaming card.