Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1750585 times)

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2980 on: September 24, 2014, 10:28:55 PM »
Which is precisely what I did, as fast as I could.  I waited for years, wanting that Assemble the Team power (and others, like Reveal), and finally I could just bribe my way to the top.  I was thrilled.

lol
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Harpospoke

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2981 on: September 24, 2014, 10:39:45 PM »
Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.

Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2

As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.
I just reformatted my HD and re-installed...Win XP.   :)

From reading this thread, Win 7 will be where I end up next.

JanessaVR

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2982 on: September 24, 2014, 10:54:53 PM »
From reading this thread, Win 7 will be where I end up next.
Wise choice.  The learning curve from XP isn't that hard.  Going to Win8 from XP is like stepping sideways into some weird parallel dimension.

Harpospoke

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2983 on: September 24, 2014, 11:14:28 PM »
*ahem*

This is not idle speculation about code leaks central.

It is "gods damnit, I hate calling Korea" central. Man my phone bill is going to suck.
All I saw was, "they are still talking".   That's good news.
I was once told a good piece of advise by a friend - allow others to help you - it benefits their souls and lets them feel good about themselves.
That's good.  I'm really bad at accepting help...I need to remember that.
Except, vet rewards were no longer vet rewards as of when the game closed. They were Paragon Rewards, and tied to the store token system, so you could buy your way to them.
I didn't even know that. 

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2984 on: September 24, 2014, 11:57:03 PM »
The Manhattan Project was indeed kept super secret.

That simply can't be true if we all know that name. . .  ;D
We're almost there!  ;D

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blacksly

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2985 on: September 25, 2014, 12:32:14 AM »
That simply can't be true if we all know that name. . .  ;D

Uh, sure it can. Operative word being "was".

MegaWatt

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2986 on: September 25, 2014, 12:32:28 AM »
Hi all first post here....i sort of squeed when i saw this news! i hope it happens - i've been thinking who i'd remake and realizeing my duos with other people can actually work what with level pact (i can play all day and they can come back with out being levels down - yay !)

On the subject of Vet rewards: i'd kind of like mine back.....i had a lot of years built up and liked the costume bits i got from them.
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2987 on: September 25, 2014, 12:48:11 AM »

At any given time on my PC I'm running Windows Media Center (yes, it's my main DVR hooked up with an HD Homerun) and running multiple browsers, each with multiple tabs (I use a seperate browser each for work and personal browsing) and can be running any portion of Adobe Creative suite or running PC games including graphics intensive MMOs, as well as my music player.  I never have any problem finding what I want. Alt tab to the window of the app/program I want, and it pops up, just like I do in Windows 7.  Want to find an app I don't have open? Just swipe my mouse down from the top right corner and the search bar pops up for me just as fast if not faster than having to click the start tab in Windows 7.   By the way, this is on a far from high end machine.  I'm running and i5 processor with 8 gigs of ram and and GTX 550 video processor.  Not low end, but definitely not high end. 
 
Arcana, what shortcuts or pathways are you using in windows 7 that have been taken away in Windows 8?  Honestly, at home I use Windows 8, at work I use Windows 7, and I really don't see ANY functional difference once I got the 8.1 update and had the ability for it to boot right to the desktop, avoiding the metro interface altogether.
 
 
I'm wondering,  are you relying mostly on the built in "apps" via the metro interface, or using the actual stand alone programs like you would in Windows 7?  Maybe that's the issue. I don't use -any- of the built in apps via the app store or metro interface because they are, by design, bulky and take over the full screen, like you'd see on a tablet, etc.  But those are easily avoided if you're using Windows 8 on a PC.  As a matter of fact, I NEVER even see the metro interface on my home PC.  I boot to the desktop by default and every program I use is one I've installed myself, the same way I would on any other PC.  I don't even know what the market interface looks like on Windows 8 PCs, honestly.
 
Could that be the cause of your frustration?

The cause of my frustration with Windows 8.x is that at best, I can maybe get back something close to my Windows 7 experience if I punch it in the face enough times, and absolutely none of the UI changes improves things.

I would prefer to have a non-metro interface because tiling notwithstanding its worthless for multitasking.  I can do that in theory by booting to desktop, if I upgrade to 8.1 and configure for it, wasted effort and something I have to deal with on every Win8 system I end up going anywhere near that isn't mine.  I would prefer a hierarchical start menu to the flat start screen because hierarchical folders are superior to scrolling screens for any computer you aren't holding in your hand and I can't get that at all (without expending a stupid amount of effort hand-crafting a start screen or just flat out downloading a desktop replacement).  And I don't want to leave the desktop just to start another program.  I don't want hotspots on my screen to be popping menus up all over the place, because it limits the amount of screen I can use without worrying about unnecessary distractions.  And I remote control systems at times out of necessity, and most (which is to say: all) remote control does not currently mesh well with systems with overt touch-style interfaces without actual touch-style input.

The question should really be: on a non-touch computer, what can Windows 8.x do that you can't do in Win7 that anyone actually wants to do?  If there isn't any such thing, then the fact that it is different at all is three automatic strikes against it.  Change for no reason is breaking the prime directive of user interface design.  Its the rule no one has any excuse to break.  As you say, I don't actually use a lot of built in Windows apps and features myself (which is why I'm not complaining about the goofy glitches in windows search, the problems with UAE and intermixing legacy and modern apps, etc).  So what I need is Win32/Win64 compatibility, desktop manager, and a way to launch apps.  How does Windows 8.x help me there?  There's no possible way ejecting me to the start screen is faster than a start bar, no matter what sort of sort settings you set on it.  There is no way having multiple hot spots is better for desktop screen use efficiency.

opprime2828

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2988 on: September 25, 2014, 01:29:37 AM »
The cause of my frustration with Windows 8.x is that at best, I can maybe get back something close to my Windows 7 experience if I punch it in the face enough times, and absolutely none of the UI changes improves things.
 
...

The question should really be: on a non-touch computer, what can Windows 8.x do that you can't do in Win7 that anyone actually wants to do?  I

I have an immense amount of respect for you and your technical expertise, so I'll leave this is my last post on this topic so I don't seem like I'm badgering you.
 
First, don't you think you're overstating the effort needed to make Windows 8.1 boot directly to the desktop?  It, LITERALLY, involves three steps: right click on the task bar, click the navigation tab, then check a box to show the desktop on start or when all apps are closed.  Done. From there on out you never have to see tiles or the metro screen again, unless you want to.   
 
The second part of your question, for me at least, includes instant start up and shutdown, improved speed all around, incredibly fast search and integration of my windows ID with my Xbox Live ID, hotmail (I know, I know), etc. The ease of upgrading, with the ability to upgrade from the Previous OS (windows 7) to the new one without having to reinstall all of my programs or lose any of my data was also a nice bonus. They also added back an (in my opinion) improved version of the start button, where right clicking gives you MUCH faster access to most of the common things you had to dig to get to before, like Device manager, disk manager, power management, etc.   I will say that since I switched to a Nokia Lumia, I'm seeing why, if I had a Windows tablet as well, I'd REALLY like Microsoft's decision to try and get some uniformity in their OS systems across platforms.  That was their long term strategy: to try and make a single Windows system that really feels like it transcends the PC to unify all types of devices. 

Sorry you don't like it, and really, it doesn't matter what OS someone chooses to use.  I just think Windows 8 gets a bad wrap.  It didn't work with the general public, but I think that was as much the public just not seeing the need yet as it was the actual attempt being an inferior one.  They should have made Windows 8's metro menu be the option you enable, instead of the other way around. That alone might have saved it from initial culture shock.  Who knows? 
 
 
Also...to make this topical, I upgraded my Mastermind bots to Windows 8.  They kill even faster now, but no one takes them seriously. ;-)
 
 

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2989 on: September 25, 2014, 04:36:12 AM »
They should have made Windows 8's metro menu be the option you enable, instead of the other way around.

That would have been one of the best decisions Windows ever made.
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FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2990 on: September 25, 2014, 04:46:54 AM »
The cause of my frustration with Windows 8.x is that at best, I can maybe get back something close to my Windows 7 experience if I punch it in the face enough times, and absolutely none of the UI changes improves things.

3 words.  Classic Start Menu.

It took me less than 30 seconds to download and install that to Windows 8, and restore my desktop to the Windows 7 feel.  I never see Metro, everything rocks. :)

Also, boot time from cold to desktop? 5-6 seconds. :D

It really is a shame that, once again, the media have gotten away with ruining the rep of what really is a good OS, with just a few minor issues that were mostly fixed in the first update; just like Vista.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 04:52:57 AM by FloatingFatMan »

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2991 on: September 25, 2014, 05:09:23 AM »

I have an immense amount of respect for you and your technical expertise, so I'll leave this is my last post on this topic so I don't seem like I'm badgering you.

I wouldn't worry about that unless you start using an actual live badger.

Quote
First, don't you think you're overstating the effort needed to make Windows 8.1 boot directly to the desktop?  It, LITERALLY, involves three steps: right click on the task bar, click the navigation tab, then check a box to show the desktop on start or when all apps are closed.  Done. From there on out you never have to see tiles or the metro screen again, unless you want to.

First, I didn't say it took an immense amount of effort.  I said it was wasted effort, and only possible if your platform is upgraded to 8.1, and you can only do that on your own personal desktop and not anyone else's desktop without your permission.  So there's the separate question of how usable Windows 8.x is for your own personal tweaked system, and how usable it is in an environment where the choice is to deploy Windows 7 everywhere or Windows 8 everywhere.

And: its impossible to avoid seeing tiles or the metro screen short of a desktop replacement, because that's what Windows 8.1 replaces the start bar with.  You can only avoid seeing it if you don't ever need to start a program ever again that isn't pinned to your task bar.
 

Quote
The second part of your question, for me at least, includes instant start up and shutdown, improved speed all around, incredibly fast search and integration of my windows ID with my Xbox Live ID, hotmail (I know, I know), etc. The ease of upgrading, with the ability to upgrade from the Previous OS (windows 7) to the new one without having to reinstall all of my programs or lose any of my data was also a nice bonus. They also added back an (in my opinion) improved version of the start button, where right clicking gives you MUCH faster access to most of the common things you had to dig to get to before, like Device manager, disk manager, power management, etc.

Windows 8 starts up faster, but that's an improvement in the part of the system that matters least on a regular desktop.  It is a huge improvement on laptops and tablets, although Windows 7 starts up pretty fast with SSD drives.

Calling the ability to upgrade from Windows 7 a benefit of Windows 8 is actually backwards: its Windows 7 that can be upgraded to 8, not Windows 8 that's capable of upgrading Windows 7.  It was XP that could not be upgraded to 7.  If Windows 8 was better than Windows 7 in that regard, it would have been able to do what Win7 could not do: upgrade XP, but of course it can't do that any more than Windows 7 can.

"Integrating" online account information with local account information sounds good on paper.  In practice, its what you set up for grandma so they have one less thing to do.  A lot of everyone else actually hates this feature, and the fact that it takes several steps once again of wasted effort to work around.

The right-click pseudo-start bar is a welcome addition to Windows 8.1, and I'm sure I'll enjoy using it in Windows 9 or Windows 10, whichever one Microsoft gets right, but its a concession to the fact that those things were so difficult to find, remember, and use in Windows 8.  I think its (and this is a general criticism, not one aimed at you specifically) extremely disingenuous for the Windows 8 welcoming committee to sell the story that those features were trivially easy to use, and are now saying that in Windows 8.1 they are even more trivially easy to use than ever before.  That's a bandaid for something that is generally broken in Windows 8: most people can't find things without being told where they are.


Quote
I will say that since I switched to a Nokia Lumia, I'm seeing why, if I had a Windows tablet as well, I'd REALLY like Microsoft's decision to try and get some uniformity in their OS systems across platforms.  That was their long term strategy: to try and make a single Windows system that really feels like it transcends the PC to unify all types of devices.

It has been for many years, and it will be the death of Microsoft if they don't let it go.  Microsoft hasn't had a good day in the non-gaming space since the 90s when they first brain-locked into the Windows-everywhere strategy.


Quote
Sorry you don't like it, and really, it doesn't matter what OS someone chooses to use.  I just think Windows 8 gets a bad wrap.  It didn't work with the general public, but I think that was as much the public just not seeing the need yet as it was the actual attempt being an inferior one.  They should have made Windows 8's metro menu be the option you enable, instead of the other way around. That alone might have saved it from initial culture shock.  Who knows? 

If it was actually meant as a genuine usability improvement, that is what they would have done.  But it wasn't an attempt to actually give users better tools: it was an attempt, as you referenced above, to try to create a one-size-fits-all OS for PCs, tablets, and mobile devices, and Microsoft thought they had the market power to rewrite the standard for how people use PCs.  From a strategic business perspective, Windows 8 was an attempt to reproduce Apple's success with the iPad.  Apple created a market segment out of thin air with the iPad, and in the process they set the standard by which all tablet computers would be judged.  And they were able to create a whole new UI metaphor that people were willing to adopt quickly.  That gave Apple tremendous power over the marketplace.  Microsoft attempted to reverse that strategy and take their dominance on the desktop and translate it into a way to penetrate the tablet space: if everyone was using Windows 8 on the desktop, it would make them more likely to want the Metro interface on their tablets than IOS.

The problem for Microsoft is that it doesn't work that way.  A lot of people blamed the failure of Windows 8 on factors like the fact that people just don't like new things.  But that's absurd.  IOS itself proves that is totally false.  Moreover, Microsoft has never had the backslash to Windows 8 that they had to previous versions of Windows.  People didn't complain wildly when they introduced Windows 95, a radical departure from the Win3 interface.  They complained wildly about the features introduced in Vista, but when they were implemented correctly and with an actual eye to usability the complaints about the very same features mostly disappeared in Windows 7.  The evidence is that people are willing and able to accept new things if they are genuine improvements, and are equally willing to reject them when they are not.

The proof is how absolutely alone Microsoft was and is in their Windows 8 strategy.  Apple uses different interfaces for OSX and IOS, and that differentiation allows each to leverage their platforms in a way users appreciate.  Most Android systems have a similar differentiation, with larger systems having a more desktop-looking interface, smaller tablets and phones having a more IOS-looking interface, and Google is working on a different UI again for wearables.  Would Microsoft put a charms bar on a watch?  Don't answer that; my answer is look at what they did with Windows CE.  They would in fact put a charms bar on a watch.

Windows Mobile 7 is actually a pretty good mobile OS.  But it took years for them to abandon what they were doing before with Windows Mobile prior to that: prior to that Windows Mobile looked like someone tried to squeeze Windows onto a phone, and it was horrible.  I had a Windows mobile phone: settings like muting the phone required going into the control panel and changing a device profile.  That's ludicrous.

If Microsoft doesn't learn their lesson soon, Apple and Google will eat them alive.  Their primary safe haven was the desktop, and Windows 8 shows they think they can bet all those chips on red over and over again because they will never lose.


Now, all of this is not to say that Windows 8 is irredeemable.  Lots of people like it, and in many environments it works well, or at least a lot better.  On tablets its not bad.  In much simpler work environments its not bad.  In non-legacy environments its not bad.  If you like it, I have no problem with that.  But the people that don't like it aren't just too stupid to figure it out, and there is such a thing as objective UI design, and Windows 8 would fail most industrial UI design classes: that's just a fact.  Most importantly, if you're the guy responsible for making a new operating system designed explicitly to be used by the 400 million Windows users out there, there's no question whatsoever that Windows 8 was a giant failure in that regard.  The fact that that guy made maybe half those people happy and pissed the rest off when there was absolutely no reason for that (you mentioned it yourself: if Metro was good enough to sell itself, they didn't have to force it on anyone; it could have been a nice optional extra) makes him an complete idiot.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2992 on: September 25, 2014, 05:26:27 AM »
3 words.  Classic Start Menu.

It took me less than 30 seconds to download and install that to Windows 8, and restore my desktop to the Windows 7 feel.  I never see Metro, everything rocks. :)

Also, boot time from cold to desktop? 5-6 seconds. :D

It really is a shame that, once again, the media have gotten away with ruining the rep of what really is a good OS, with just a few minor issues that were mostly fixed in the first update; just like Vista.

The media was not responsible for people not upgrading to it and forcing PC manufacturers to demand the ability to sell Windows 7 again.  It was people like me who saw it, beta tested it, provided feedback that basically said you can't be serious, all but threatened them if they released it they would see to it that it would never be installed on any system they had control of over their dead bodies (actually, I did threaten that), saw that Microsoft decided to call our bluff, and then found out we were not bluffing.

Also, my Windows 7 desktop boots to login prompt in about 15 seconds.  Based on a 10 second time save on boot up, I would have to use Windows 8 for about eight thousand years before that boot time reduction was worth it.  On a laptop or tablet, I might reboot every day, maybe more than once a day.  I reboot my desktop once a month or so.  Meanwhile every time I accidentally triggered the charms bar to pop up that costs me a second or two.  Just those two factors alone mean Windows 8 would cost me more time than it saved me every month.

I'm aware of Classic Start Menu.  I'm also aware that I already have the Classic Start Menu.

When Coca Cola came out with New Coke, I bet an actual Coca Cola employee, someone significantly up the management ladder, my entire lifetime salary against his that Coca Cola would be forced to roll the recipe change back.  First it was explained to me how much money went into New Coke research.  Then it was explained to me that even if the results were less than optimal the company had too much invested to change back.  Then it was explained to me that the reason it was being rolled back was because the media had blown people's reactions to it out of proportion, and given enough time New Coke would have won out.  Needless to say I was never able to collect on that bet.

When Windows 8 came out I bet everyone who defended it that not only would it fail to be deployed in the corporate space, it would be rejected at such a high rate by personal computer users that people would be demanding Windows 7 be loaded over Windows 8 if PC manufacturers forced it upon them.  I haven't really collected much on that bet either, but it clearly happened, and it wasn't the media's fault.  It was entirely Microsoft's fault.  I know when my preferences are in the minority and the majority want to head in a different direction.  Windows 8 was not one of those times.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2993 on: September 25, 2014, 05:48:33 AM »
I should make it a point to say that at no time did I state nor did I have any intention to imply that people who like Windows 8, or who feel they are more productive in Windows 8, are wrong.  A lot of that is driven by personal preference, and there's no arguing personal preference.

The problem is that while few people argue that the people who like Windows 8 are wrong, lots of people imply that the people who hate it are idiots.  That's simply not the case.  I spend my professional days learning new things constantly.  I teach people how to use new systems.  I learn how to use new systems.  I install, configure, debug, and deploy new systems.  I'm not incapable of learning new things, and I dare say at my billable rate I better be better at it than most people.  Its not that I'm incapable of making Windows 8 work.  I don't need solutions to make it work.  It simply doesn't work as well, and there are objective reasons why it doesn't work as well.  What I do the most, the things that have the most impact on me, is that I wallpaper my screens with application windows, many of which are real-time updating, looking at and managing a lot of information simultaneously.  I have tons of applications that I need to use randomly at any time on any day: I don't have six apps I use every day and a bunch I only use twice a year. 

People like me do not want to be told how well Windows 8 works.  That's not to say I'm not open to suggestions or ideas in general; in fact if anyone has a recommendation for a remote control software optimized for Windows 8 that does not require touch controls on the client side, I'm all ears.  But I'm here to say that Windows 8 is hated not because the media tells me to hate it (in fact, in the time leading up to and post launch the overwhelming majority of media coverage for Windows 8 was glowing: the reverse was far less common; its only much later that the media seemed to grudgingly accept the fact that public sentiment was not as glowing).  Its not even because its a bad OS - its not a universally bad OS.  Its because it was a disservice to all the users like me for which Windows 8 was 5% improvement, 95% suck-it.   And we were told over and over again we just didn't get it, and that's the only reason why we didn't like it.

What really hurt Microsoft was the fact that the people who hated it were disproportionately two groups: the completely neophyte users, and the power users.  The people in the middle tended on average to like it more.  But the people who tended to like it less were the people who could get into the most trouble with it (neophytes and extremely casual users) and the people who could most damage its deployment (power users and technical support people).

But if you like Windows 8, more power to you.  I have nothing against you at all.  I almost envy you, because you get all of Windows 8's benefits with none of its downsides.  For me, the downsides aren't remotely worth it.  And there must be a lot of people like me, because Microsoft seems to be at least trying to make it up to us, because Microsoft does not develop operating system roadmaps based on bad media coverage.  They do it based on what will sell.


Edit: also, I should mention I haven't taken offense by anything said in the thread so far.  Honest voicing of opinions or honest attempts at information sharing aren't a problem for me.  What I was referring to above was more of the Microsoft party line and the people repeating it in support of Win8 leading up to and just after launch.  Not so much individual people voicing their own personal experience with the OS.  No live badger, so no problem here.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2994 on: September 25, 2014, 05:57:01 AM »
You're not the only one who beta tested Vista, or Windows 7, or 8, or going back a ways, Longhorn, XP and Millennium as well as the various server versions.  Microsoft have their reasons for making their decisions, and sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong.

With Windows 8, they made an error of judgement with the regards making Metro the primary UI on the desktop, but for the mobile space, it really is a great UI (I know, I have 2 Windows 8 tablets).  It's an understandable choice though, as they'd gotten caught wrong footed with the sudden surge in mobile OS's and they needed to get in on the action.  A lot of those issues were fixed with 8.1, and the rest will be resolved in 9.

None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media.  The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1.  What we have in 7 would have been another Vista service pack if the name itself hadn't been irreparably damaged.

Essentially the same is happening to Windows 8, too.  It has a few problems sure, but those are once again being ridiculously overblown by the media, forcing MS to abandon it and move to 9, even though once again the differences are minimal. So much so that the rumours are 9 will be either a free or very low cost upgrade to 8.

I have no problem with people who prefer 7 over 8, personal preference has always been a major factor in OS choice, but what really annoys me is the way that the media have once again managed to take a massive dump on MS in a completely disproportionate way, yet let them get away completely with what they did to Windows Phone 7 device owners (which really -was- unforgivable).

If people are going to vilify Microsoft for something, do it for the bad things they've deliberately done, rather than the mistakes they've made.

epawtows

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2995 on: September 25, 2014, 06:12:23 AM »
Is it worth it to put out that the Boeing Co. is very firmly using Windows 7 (we actually got rid of our last XP machines this spring).

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2996 on: September 25, 2014, 06:14:14 AM »
Is it worth it to put out that the Boeing Co. is very firmly using Windows 7 (we actually got rid of our last XP machines this spring).

Corporations are -always- very slow to upgrade to a new OS.  That's the way it's always been and the way it will always be.  The OS itself is never the issue, it's a purely financial thing.  Upgrading isn't a cheap thing, especially for large corps.

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2997 on: September 25, 2014, 06:32:10 AM »
You're not the only one who beta tested Vista, or Windows 7, or 8, or going back a ways, Longhorn, XP and Millennium as well as the various server versions.  Microsoft have their reasons for making their decisions, and sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong.

With Windows 8, they made an error of judgement with the regards making Metro the primary UI on the desktop, but for the mobile space, it really is a great UI (I know, I have 2 Windows 8 tablets).  It's an understandable choice though, as they'd gotten caught wrong footed with the sudden surge in mobile OS's and they needed to get in on the action.  A lot of those issues were fixed with 8.1, and the rest will be resolved in 9.

None of that, however, alters one bit the sheer damage done to their rep by the media.  The Vista issues were ridiculously overblown by the media, causing damage so bad that MS were forced to dump it and launch Windows 7, even though there is very little actual difference between it and Vista SP1.  What we have in 7 would have been another Vista service pack if the name itself hadn't been irreparably damaged.

Essentially the same is happening to Windows 8, too.  It has a few problems sure, but those are once again being ridiculously overblown by the media, forcing MS to abandon it and move to 9, even though once again the differences are minimal. So much so that the rumours are 9 will be either a free or very low cost upgrade to 8.

I have no problem with people who prefer 7 over 8, personal preference has always been a major factor in OS choice, but what really annoys me is the way that the media have once again managed to take a massive dump on MS in a completely disproportionate way, yet let them get away completely with what they did to Windows Phone 7 device owners (which really -was- unforgivable).

If people are going to vilify Microsoft for something, do it for the bad things they've deliberately done, rather than the mistakes they've made.

My personal opinion is that Microsoft puts a lot of the damage on themselves. With the market dominance they have, they don't need to force feed beta versions on the masses, yet they've done it since NT (at least).

I really don't think that Microsoft was unaware of the reception they were going to get when they decided to go in a different direction with Win 8. After all, they were the company that brought out Vista and NT. Every so often Microsoft gets it into their corporate head to make a change whether people like it or not.
I also don't believe they were caught off guard by all this tablet business. They were trying to get into the tablet business in 2000. What they weren't ready for was the iPad. I personally think that Win 8 was a direct reaction a perceived intrusion onto their turf. 

And I didn't have any real problem with vista. Well, after two days of ripping out everything I could that distinguished it from XP... it worked fine. :)

There are reasons that many admins I know won't personally use a Microsoft OS until at least service pack 2 is out.

In summation.... Excellent.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2998 on: September 25, 2014, 06:34:00 AM »
Corporations are -always- very slow to upgrade to a new OS.  That's the way it's always been and the way it will always be.  The OS itself is never the issue, it's a purely financial thing.  Upgrading isn't a cheap thing, especially for large corps.

Yep.

They also can't get any good ROI and other numbers on it because it's effectively maintenance for the company. It's a huge problem for any IT department.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2999 on: September 25, 2014, 06:38:10 AM »
Yep.

They also can't get any good ROI and other numbers on it because it's effectively maintenance for the company. It's a huge problem for any IT department.

Our own IT department are currently rolling out Windows 8 across the network.  Almost -EVERYONE- is complaining about it, but at least they have a very very good reason.  We do a lot of client side support for our customers that requires that we connect to their systems, so we use VM's for that so that the VPN's they make us use don't disconnect us from -our- network.  Windows 8's Hyper-V has a huge bug in that it only supports 4:3 resolution screens, which is BLOODY ANNOYING when we all have dual 24" widescreen monitors, and they won't let us install any 3rd party VM solutions!

Why oh why they're not going straight to 8.1, where that problem is fixed, is beyond everyone's comprehension, and IT ain't sayin'... :/