Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1748244 times)

CrimsonCapacitor

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2000 on: September 11, 2014, 06:29:46 PM »
<<SNIP>>

how comfortable are you with bit packing and the math behind quaternions?

Is it just me, or does this sound like something from "Buckaroo Banzai"?
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Illusionss

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2001 on: September 11, 2014, 06:32:22 PM »
Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues.  I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.

Well, I am never FOR that sort of thing. Learned pretty quick, though, that if you tried to do something like run the Underground Trial and about 2/3 of the league was not AT LEAST +2, when you got to that last War Walker there might be some problems. So I never booted anyone; but I could be known to look through the roster and ask those who had one, if they'd consider switching to a higher level 50 for the good of the league, so to speak.

Some of those upper-level trials had baddies in 'em that could be kinda.... mean for folks who were on toons that hardly had Judgement, even.

MAN I miss Judgement. When you had Judgement, you were a GOD. Especially Dark or Pyronic. Until you met that War Walker, anyways.

Von Krieger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2002 on: September 11, 2014, 06:51:22 PM »
I just realized that I don't recall if there's a repository anywhere of data regarding enemy power effects.

There's City of Data for PC power effects, but there's probably at least as many, if not more, NPC attacks.

MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2003 on: September 11, 2014, 07:05:06 PM »

The only time "Pay to Win" would be an issue in PvE is in the market, but I think it was amply demonstrated that you didn't need great drops or lots of drops to be a marketeer.


I never relied on drops, great or not, or even farming, AE tickets or even flipping salvage (except for mundane stuff to open up wentworth slots) and I had billions. I bought low and sold for what people willing pay for pre-crafted I/O's. No need for luck.
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JanessaVR

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2004 on: September 11, 2014, 07:12:06 PM »
I never relied on drops, great or not, or even farming, AE tickets or even flipping salvage (except for mundane stuff to open up wentworth slots) and I had billions. I bought low and sold for what people willing pay for pre-crafted I/O's. No need for luck.
I did all of the above, and more!  :)  I did whatever it took to accumulate INF.  By the end, however, it was pretty easy as the devs started just selling INF directly in the cash shop.  "No they weren't!", you say?  "Sure they were", I reply.  They sold Super Packs.  Spend $100 on those, and dump what you don't need on the market, or use the Reward Merits from them to buy Luck of the Gambler recipes (or whatever else was going for high prices on the market at the time).  It was basically a cash-for-INF marketing scheme, which I took gleeful advantage of.

MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2005 on: September 11, 2014, 07:12:45 PM »
I've read a lot about voice overs on this thread and since I think it unlikely to happen, I'm not fussed.

But I will say this, I'm not particularly impressed with it in any MMO I've played.  Yes, I've played Secret World and even dabbled in Star Wars Old Republic, before I remembered why I'm done with Star Wars, and while it's fine the first time through, it's annoying on second trips. Now if the game is like Secret World where alt-ing is pretty pointless that's fine. But a game like CoH that encourages alt-ing? I'd pass on it.

For me, it's much faster to read the text then to someone read through it again. Essentially the same problem I have with internet video articles when a short block of text would do.

So if it were a democracy, I'd vote NO on VO.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 09:35:45 PM by TheDevilYouKnow »
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MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2006 on: September 11, 2014, 07:17:05 PM »
I did all of the above, and more!  :)  I did whatever it took to accumulate INF.  By the end, however, it was pretty easy as the devs started just selling INF directly in the cash shop.  "No they weren't!", you say?  "Sure they were", I reply.  They sold Super Packs.  Spend $100 on those, and dump what you don't need on the market, or use the Reward Merits from them to buy Luck of the Gambler recipes (or whatever else was going for high prices on the market at the time).  It was basically a cash-for-INF marketing scheme, which I took gleeful advantage of.

I guess I did the same thing. I used the merits ti outfit characters rather than acquiring it on the market. So I spent far less of the INF i earned. It was just so much easier to get the sets at 35 that way then hoping that someone would have it for sale at a price I wanted to pay.

I did have some level locked toons who did alignment missions to get Alignment merits so they could generate I/O's at specific levels. Of Course my level 35 guy got the most play but I don't really consider that farming.
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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2007 on: September 11, 2014, 07:21:51 PM »
Wait... I asked "Is it option A or option B?" and your answer is "Essentially." :P I think the implication is that you're saying "essentially" to the "licensing would not limited" part, which is good!

Mostly - we don't know. If the IP is sold, there are no limitations save any contractual obligations made in the sale, such as honoring an existing contract to a third (fifth?) party.  But the counter proposal/offer response hasn't happened yet.
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Codewalker

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2008 on: September 11, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
I just realized that I don't recall if there's a repository anywhere of data regarding enemy power effects.

There's City of Data for PC power effects, but there's probably at least as many, if not more, NPC attacks.

All of the NPC powers are in City of Data as well, if you know where to look.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2009 on: September 11, 2014, 07:36:37 PM »
I still maintain that "Pay to Win" only applies to PvP. If you're using paid powers to complete things faster, and get more items... well, for me, I don't care. Sure, you're "winning," but you're beating NPCs. Whereas in PvP, the whole conceit of that endeavor is that everyone starts on a level playing field gear wise, and skill / build choices / etc. allow you to defeat other players. If you pay for an item that allows you to easily defeat other people in PvP, that is the literal definition of paying to win.

The only time "Pay to Win" would be an issue in PvE is in the market, but I think it was amply demonstrated that you didn't need great drops or lots of drops to be a marketeer.

That's a sort of player-centric view of pay to win where the definition of "winning" is mostly congruent with "beating other players."  But I think it fails to capture the sense that City of Heroes was a game, to distinguish it from an open sandbox, say.  Many players took the position that the purpose of the "game" was to give the players whatever they wanted that the dev team could reasonably accomplish: that's why (although I'm not saying you're saying this per se) many players felt that increasing reward rates was something the devs only failed to do out of malice: since its trivial to simply increase those numbers, and takes no real effort on their parts, the only reason for not doing it is to punish or otherwise manipulate players.

But neither Cryptic nor Paragon viewed CoH in that way.  As open as they tried to make the game in many ways, it was still something they considered an actual game with rules and reward systems and content structures that were about delivering a structured playing environment.  Given that, there is a lot of validity to the statement that if the devs placed strong limits on  most players, but allowed some of them to buy their way past those limits, that was a form of pay to win, in that it was a way to pay to break the rules.  Not everyone thought the rules should even have been there in the first place, but that's not really relevant.

I tended to take the more moderate position that something became pay to win not just when it improved performance but did so in a way that significantly exceeded the normal design rules by a higher margin than non-exploitive non-purchased gameplay could accomplish.  So in the case of Codewalker's example of using the store-bought team teleporter on DocQ, I think for me that's a grey area that comes very close to the line.  It does significantly improve the rate at which  you could earn merits, and if you were *fast enough in all respects* you could earn merits significantly faster than most other activities I could think of.  There's definitely a pay to win aspect to that.  But its not so much higher that I think its definitively pay to win, when combined with the fact that the *overall* reward rate for running a highly accelerated DocQ is still not outside the rate the standard game supported with non-exploitive reasonably optimal gameplay.  I think quick-ITFs would, in the long run, meet or exceed fast-Q (not on pure merits, but overall) with less need for perfectly optimized gameplay.  Since quick-ITFs could be run by any reasonably powerful team without the need for any purchased powers or marginally ultrahigh or ultrarare game rewards, that places fast-Q for me on the edge, but not necessarily obviously far over the edge.

Fast-Q is, however, a good illustration of how the eye should be kept on the overall prize - net overall reward earning rate - and not on overly specific gameplay elements (like critter defeat rate or offensive output) when deciding if something boosts players' ability to exceed what the game design intended in ways fundamental to the way the game rewards gameplay.  Gameplay-rewarding game rewards are the way *the game* defines "winning" even if it doesn't call it that.  That's the definition that I think should be the primary one when judging "pay to win."

Taliseian

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2010 on: September 11, 2014, 08:01:51 PM »
My thoughts on several subjects...

Voice Overs - was nice in SWTOR, the first or second time.  After that, I played sans in-game music and voices.  Not sure if the investment was worth it for SWTOR, or for MMOs in general.

Pay To Win - pretty much guaranteed to insure I'll never pay a dime or even play.  Rift does it well in my opinion,  you can buy vanity stuff and mounts, but you still have to craft or earn the real gear. 

PvP - Don't care for it personally, but I know a lot of people who do.  My opinion is that you never want to have something for PvE to have any connection to PvP either in access or components.  Also, it may be easier to balance if you give some sort of mystical/science reason that powers work differently so that you can do what you need to do to balance power for PvP and not worry about it's effects in PvE.

Galaxy City - I prefered the original GC.  My main leveling path was always Atlas, it was fun to run there every now and then.  However, toward the end it did seems as if the lowbies were split and that made some grouping options more difficult so I could understand why game-wise they made the change.


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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2011 on: September 11, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »
Is it soup yet? (Will there be soup?)  :P
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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2012 on: September 11, 2014, 08:06:45 PM »
Here's 1 thing I was wondering... Do you plan to bring Galaxy City back, or go with how the zone was in i23?

Please please please please please bring Galaxy City back! :p



Galaxy City was one of my favorite zones and my favorite starting zone.

KennonGL

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2013 on: September 11, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »


Galaxy City was one of my favorite zones and my favorite starting zone.

Yep I ALWAYS started my heroes in Galaxy City, at least up to the point where I couldn't any longer.

If we get a vote (hmm maybe a bribe would help?), then I'd vote that APR restore Galaxy City to a viable zone.


FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2014 on: September 11, 2014, 08:19:07 PM »


Galaxy City was one of my favorite zones and my favorite starting zone.

It was also the site of the longest running RP social spot on the Union server (the unofficial EU RP server).  When we lost GC, we lost our -home-! :(

ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2015 on: September 11, 2014, 08:22:57 PM »
Is it just me, or does this sound like something from "Buckaroo Banzai"?

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BadWolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2016 on: September 11, 2014, 08:28:10 PM »
I've read a lot about VO on this thread and since I think it unlikely to happen, I'm not fussed.

But I will say this, I'm not particularly impressed with it in any MMO I've played.  Yes, I've played Secret World and even dabbled in Star Wars Old Republic, before I remembered why I'm done with Star Wars, and while it's fine the first time through, it's annoying on second trips. Now if the game is like Secret World where alt-ing is pretty pointless that's fine. But a game like CoH that encourages alt-ing? I'd pass on it.

For me, it's much faster to read the text then to someone read through it again. Essentially the same problem I have with internet video articles when a short block of text would do.

So if it were a democracy, I'd vote NO on VO.

Just a tip for future posters--I got about halfway through this post before I realized it wasn't about Valiance Online. :)

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2017 on: September 11, 2014, 08:31:32 PM »
Just a tip for future posters--I got about halfway through this post before I realized it wasn't about Valiance Online. :)

Yeah, might be useful to actually use the word voiceover regarding that subject, since we've got letters for the other ones (CoT, CoH, VO, and APR)...
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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2018 on: September 11, 2014, 08:50:00 PM »

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2019 on: September 11, 2014, 08:50:09 PM »
Here's 1 thing I was wondering... Do you plan to bring Galaxy City back, or go with how the zone was in i23?

Please please please please please bring Galaxy City back! :p

Unfortunately I think it was stated that NCSoft has an image of the game in issue 23 status so for Galaxy to return would likely have to be in COH 1.5

What was funny was that way before the shutdown I had some old characters parked in tutorial that I never activated.  When I was making some CoH vids before shut down I saw those characters were still in the original tutorial so I was able to film the old and new one.

Also by running the old tutorial I was able to pick Galaxy City to start and it was the original fully functional GC.
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