Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1749775 times)

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1460 on: September 07, 2014, 11:03:50 PM »
IF NCSoft kept account data, it would be a small matter for them to check the vet status of each account and send the owner of said account a verification that could then be submitted to MWM granting all the rewards thereof.

I'd even pay for the priviledge. To cover the overhead needed to recover my data.
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Dareon Kale

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1461 on: September 07, 2014, 11:14:10 PM »
You could link the Vet rewards to levels. You get this or that at level 5, 10, 15, etc. with the caveat that once unlocked on any given character, it would be unlocked for every other toon on your account. I suppose that could be a little rough on the folks with severe altitis who never actually finish leveling a toon, though.

MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1462 on: September 07, 2014, 11:18:32 PM »
IF NCSoft kept account data, it would be a small matter for them to check the vet status of each account and send the owner of said account a verification that could then be submitted to MWM granting all the rewards thereof.

I'd even pay for the priviledge. To cover the overhead needed to recover my data.

Me thinks the people can negotiate this with NC Soft while also paying them X amount of dollars just to access the data. They will say, we don't want access to the information, but we will negotiate a price for the end users to have access to that data. If that end user is willing to pay to have their data retrieved, then you can charge them X more amount of dollars individually. In a sense this will have NC Soft double dipping for the same piece of information and will probably be incising enough for them to release it.

saipaman

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1463 on: September 07, 2014, 11:21:57 PM »
A lot will depend on just what is in this mysterious 'server image'.

This could simply be a cover to use files that an employee "liberated" before the shutdown.

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1464 on: September 07, 2014, 11:22:28 PM »
I suppose you could link vet rewards to levels, but then they wouldn't really be vet rewards anymore.

It matters little until we know how this plays out in the end anyways.
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1465 on: September 07, 2014, 11:24:54 PM »
Given that NcSoft apparently didn't keep anything other than an image of the game, is it likely they will have the data that can indicate how long someone was subbed to a game that no longer exists?


opprime2828

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1466 on: September 07, 2014, 11:26:11 PM »
Play CO for about 30 minutes.  They have voice talent.  It's bad.  As in pure sliced Velveeta cheesy bad.

Why spend the money for the voice acting if it's going to be... bad? 

TSW does OK voice acting.  It's via cutscenes and works well.  But it's rather jarring to be walking towards a contact and suddenly, "WHAM!" cutscene.

I don't have a problem with reading dialog boxes (and I'm not saying that settles it.)  Often, in voice overs, I miss what is said...

Which was exactly my point: the dialogue in CO is bad because it's BADLY WRITTEN, just like everything else in the game. They went with the ridiculous, over the top antiquated views of a comic book universe and it was their downfall across the board.
 
The dialogue in TSW is well written, and so, it's good. 
 
It's all about the writing.

As for "missing things", that's where you should have the proper combination, as I said before, so those like yourself can just turn off voiceovers, and those like myself, who often "miss" things in text boxes because it's too hard and time consuming to read, each have options that satisfy us.
 
Also, voice over work really isn't that expensive. Seriously.  It's not.  I know that from experience.

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1467 on: September 07, 2014, 11:33:50 PM »
IF NCSoft kept account data, it would be a small matter for them to check the vet status of each account and send the owner of said account a verification that could then be submitted to MWM granting all the rewards thereof.

I'd even pay for the priviledge. To cover the overhead needed to recover my data.
That could cause some people problems, since they no longer have their original email account however, there could be a work around for this issue.
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

opprime2828

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1468 on: September 07, 2014, 11:53:09 PM »
The problem isn't that all voice acting is bad or all superhero scripted dialog is silly.  The problem is that voice dialog and the gameplay scaffolding that goes along with it is much more frictional in MMOs specifically than in single player games.  In single player games the game runs at whatever pace you want.  But in MMOs you have to design all (or almost all) content on the presumption that teams will run it.  And SWTOR isn't considered "advanced" because of its voice scenes.  Its generally considered to be "annoying" when not being played single-player.

Good design is not about using the most technically advanced features possible.  Its about fitting form to function in the best way possible with available technology.  With written text its possible for some players in the team to read quickly and dismiss the text at their own pace while other players can read slower, and with the right technology even go back and read it again if they can't read it fast enough.  I screencapped all dialog in CoH specifically to allow myself to do that, and I'm the fastest reader I know.  Absolutely no one was reading mission dialog faster than I was, but it was still convenient for me to save for future reference.  Its not as easy to do that for voice acted cutscenes.



 
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts.  There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option.  If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.   
 
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has.  And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well.  Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial?  To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
 
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
 
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc.  But it is a strike. 
 
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional. 
 
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home.  I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc.  Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum.  Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours.  In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
 
6,000 dollars.  That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work. 
 
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.   

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1469 on: September 08, 2014, 12:01:50 AM »
You are correct opprime2828, voice talent is very affordable.

My wife writes voice over script for marketing. Cost of talent and production is miniscule, updating easy.
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Darkfaith

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1470 on: September 08, 2014, 12:02:56 AM »

 
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts.  There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option.  If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.   
 
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has.  And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well.  Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial?  To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
 
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
 
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc.  But it is a strike. 
 
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional. 
 
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home.  I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc.  Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum.  Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours.  In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
 
6,000 dollars.  That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work. 
 
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.

"Isn't that expensive" is relative. MWM, and probably CoH 1.5, have a very limited budget. Very limited. That $6000 is that many fewer tools for their people to work with. That many fewer software licenses, that much less hardware. Makes the budget tighter on servers. As far as bang for their buck, there are probably better ways they can spend that money. Does that cut out the option of adding voiceover work later? No, of course not, but there are probably better ways to spend their limited development money pre-release, so I wouldn't expect to see voice work at release.

If they can add it in a way that they're happy with, and doesn't take away from other potential features, sure. But when your budget is $600,000ish to develop a whole MMO, $6000 can be a lot.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 12:16:53 AM by Darkfaith »

HEATSTROKE

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1471 on: September 08, 2014, 12:07:22 AM »
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..

downix

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1472 on: September 08, 2014, 12:09:09 AM »

 
I'm sorry but you're stating a bunch of your preferences as facts.  There is NOTHING about voice acting that takes any longer than any other cut scene, and in fact, can be much faster than text based cut scenes that don't have a "skippable" option.  If there IS a skippable option, there is nothing about voice over cut scenes that make them somehow "unskippable" anymore than text based ones.   
 
It sounds like you're suggestion is we shouldn't have cut scenes at all, which CoH already has.  And lets not forget that voice over work can be done outside of cut scenes, as well.  Why do you think they added voice over work to the newer tutorial?  To make the game feel less dated than it really was.
 
The devs believed exactly what I'm saying: purely text based MMOs feel dated, and it's a strike against them.
 
You may be willing to take that strike. So may the makers of CoT/Coh 1.5, etc.  But it is a strike. 
 
And it's one that really doesn't seem, to me anyway, to offer any advantages to it that couldn't easily be countered by simply making voice over work optional. 
 
And voice over work isn't that expensive. I know this from experience. As a matter of fact, it's something that a group of volunteers from the community could get done fairly quickly, probably for free, and in a quality that is at least as good as that on The Secret World, from the comfort of their own PCs at home.  I teach Film production, I've got extensive experience in making voice overs, including with effects, etc.  Even still, if you wanted to hire professionals, you can get quality services doing one hour sessions of recordings for around 500 dollars, and each addition hour being just 100 dollars. So lets imagine that if we did EVERY cut scene existing in City of Heroes, and added in just ambiance voice over work for 50 contacts (A quick "hello" when you walk up, etc.), based on my experience as a QUICK guess from memory of the game, we're talk 10 hours of voice over work, maximum.  Assuming you'd need 5 male and 5 female voice actors to cover the number of contacts you have in the game, you'd be running around 14,000 dollars if you used ALL ten of them for the ENTIRE 10 hours.  In reality, you wouldn't, you'd be using each one for about 2 hours, so more likely a total cost of 6,000 dollars.
 
6,000 dollars.  That's for every cut scene in the game to have a voice over option, and for 50 of the most famous/popular contacts to have ambient voice over work. 
 
And it can be done much cheaper. Some quality voice acting talent work for 25 dollars a page for non-broadcast work.
Your argument falls apart. You said $6k for everything, but then $25/page. Both of these numbers are suspect, so let's go and look at what real professionals cost, and how much VO runtime real game titles have.

For a typical MMORPG, we are talking about 100,000 minutes of dialog to voice. According to Interactive Voices, Inc, one of the largest VO management groups in the US, the going rate is $100 per minute of recorded dialog. That's $10 million to record.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 12:26:00 AM by downix »

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1473 on: September 08, 2014, 12:26:46 AM »
If the revived CoX has about 34000 subs at $15, it will net $500k/month.

Makes a $6000 investment seem a no-brainer.  :roll:
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 12:34:23 AM by Power_Gamer »
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

downix

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1474 on: September 08, 2014, 12:32:37 AM »
If the revived CoX has about 3400 subs at $15, it will net $500k/month.

Makes a $6000 investment seem a no-brainer.  :roll:
There is no $6k investment here. It's a $10,000,000 investment.

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1475 on: September 08, 2014, 12:35:38 AM »
There is no $6k investment here. It's a $10,000,000 investment.


Excuse me?

Did you say 10 million dollars?

Is that the asking price for what NcSoft is offering?

Aggelakis

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1476 on: September 08, 2014, 12:36:25 AM »
No.
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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1477 on: September 08, 2014, 12:41:53 AM »
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..

+1

It'd be a huge waste of time/recorces. I doubt many people care eough about voice overs to warrant their inclusion. Just look at it this way. Money made from their addition would more than likely not bring a ROI sufficient enough or in a timely enough manner to justify it, if at all.

On the topic of vet rewards. I'm sure a kickstarter would help to fund APR, why not make them a backer perk for legacy and 1.5 (assuming its the same company). That way people that want to back the project and get the vet rewards sooner could purchase them and everyone else could earn them with time. You could even spread them out over a realistic backed amount and what vet rewards you don't pony up for can be earned over time with credited time equalling backer level.
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hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1478 on: September 08, 2014, 12:46:32 AM »
Ah, the memories.  AC was my first MMO, and left there to play Horizons for a goodly while.  (Loved the crafting there, and playing a dragon!). After that City of Heroes.  After that primarily LOTRO, but always came back to CoX.  Just never got over Flying, Radio Missions, Wenty's and Base/IO crafting...

 totally agree. I never created a char. in coh/cov that did not have flying,lol,just couldn't do it-loved flying :)  I do Lotr a little and enjoy it when I do. That also is done by turbine,and seeing how well they treat us Asheron's Call fans, I have no fear they will ever abandon Lotr either. They have created a lot of trust and confidence by their actions and other company's would do very well to imitate that :) 

Illusionss

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1479 on: September 08, 2014, 12:53:20 AM »
For the record...I could give a crap less about voice acting..

I find it intrusive and stupid. The best examples I have run into so far can be found in DCUO; the voice acting over there is almost bearable. But I don't need bosses spouting the same tagline 400 times during a boss-fight; I end up turning my sound off.

CoX did not need voice-overs, and lets just leave it at that.