Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1712205 times)

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #500 on: September 02, 2014, 04:43:55 PM »
I am also left with a HUGE question...will this new release/version of the game still be playable on the Mac?

That's been asked, and answered, a least a dozen times since last night...

Hyperstrike

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #501 on: September 02, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
Don't be hating on windows 8!

I don't hate Windows 8.

I simply think it's a decent OS with pathetically broken UI that doesn't belong on anything other than a tablet.

So the proper term is "disdain".

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #502 on: September 02, 2014, 04:45:12 PM »
Yes.  And Marvel had to basically build all their MMO structure from scratch, because UE3 is primarily an FPS/TPS engine.

Also, the Marvel game is... dreadful. :p

Illusionss

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #503 on: September 02, 2014, 04:45:23 PM »
I also balk at the word "licensing" as it was used a couple of time.  Licenses can always expire; contracts can be broken.  Will NCSoft now have some kind of hold or say in the successors if they choose to incorporate aspects of CoH into their games?

This crossed my mind as well; I don't want NCSoft having so much as a single tentacle on CoT. I don't want them anywhere near that game, they can keep their little grubbies to themselves.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #504 on: September 02, 2014, 04:46:19 PM »
I know many folks still use WinXp and Windows 7.
"Still" nothing. I only switched to Win 7 this year because I replaced my old desktop. :p
I really wish that were the case, but if they're buying the IP and only leasing the engine I really don't see how The Holding Company would have the ability to legally provide the server snapshot.
Sub-leasing is a thing. It depends on the lease terms from NCSoft, obviously.
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MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #506 on: September 02, 2014, 04:50:37 PM »
No, CoT's power system is different, more flexible. The adapting will be up to APR.

Yeah, I was curious about this as well. My understanding was that the powersets are very different and not locked to any specific role. Not sure how you would create a COH fire/fire blaster in APR without reworking a lot of the avatar creation system to limit selections. I think gameplay style is likely to be quite different if it is just a straight port from CoT to APR without some serious modding of the engine. But there is no way for us on the outside looking in to know.
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downix

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #507 on: September 02, 2014, 04:51:54 PM »
Yeah, I was curious about this as well. My understanding was that the powersets are very different and not locked to any specific role. Not sure how you would create a COH fire/fire blaster in APR without reworking a lot of the avatar creation system to limit selections. I think gameplay style is likely to be quite different if it is just a straight port from CoT to APR without some serious modding of the engine. But there is no way for us on the outside looking in to know.
You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood

Rubberlad

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #508 on: September 02, 2014, 04:54:54 PM »
I would like to address some other concerns.  One.  That Missing Worlds Media is using funds from the Kickstarter for the new holding company purchasing the COH Intellectual Property.  This is not so.  Funds from the Kickstarter raised for City of Titans are designated for City of Titans.  New funds will need to be raised separately at some point for the COH revival should the deal with NCSoft get approved.

That MWM somehow misused their funding to switch game engines from Unreal Engine 3 to Unreal Engine 4.  And that this transition set them back irreparably.
Unreal Engine 3 has zero MMO support.  Meaning that MWM would have had to either create their own code for handling the MMO portion of the game, or contract a third party to do so.  Such would have taken an unknown amount of time.  Unreal Engine 4 on the other hand has built in MMO support.  This is why when MWM was offered the chance to upgrade their licenses to the newer version they did so enthusiastically.  As this would be one less thing to have to work out. 

As to the setbacks...that has to do with the character rig on which our avatars will be built upon.  MWM was a little too ambitious with the amount of sockets the character rigs could hold and to how many pieces would make up the rig, and where their seams connected the pieces together would look and work in their game engine.  Some of the seams did not move properly once the rig was in motion.  Too many sockets used up too many resources leading to instability. 

It is my understanding that they are on the third iteration of the character rig.  Once all the kinks are worked out progress will proceed.  While this sets back the avatar builder somewhat it does not affect other portions of the game such as the background world building, lore, or art assets being created.  There are multiple paths all being worked on simultaneously.

Just because other Kickstarter projects have failed does not mean that this project has to fail.  As with any project their is a risk of failure.  There is also the possibility of success.  I prefer to be enthusiastically supportive of City of Titans and why I have contributed to the Kickstarter campaign.  If they start a new Kickstarter to revive City Of Heroes, I will contribute to that as well.  We can all be naysayers and be negative and say that all of this is a pipe dream and give up our hopes or we can be positive and look to a brighter tomorrow.  I prefer to do the latter.  Nuff said.

Actually there’s a lot more that can be said on the points you raised (although I admire your ability to gloss over any and all criticism with a stroke of the Rainbow Brite wand):

1)   MWM didn’t know Unreal 3 engine wasn’t MMO-tech friendly (at least that reason wasn’t clearly stated when they announced the switch to UE4 which came *after* the Kickstarter campaign had already successfully concluded. If they knew prior to the campaign that UE3 wasn’t the right tool but they went ahead with marketing the campaign as a UE3 tool… (while *also* knowing that they had jumpstarted a renew discussion with NCsoft to buy back the CoH IP) well, that opens up a whole new can of worms. That said, I think your spin on these events very unlikely and/or didn’t happen. What I think is more likely is that the MWM team made the decision to switch to UE4 later (and post Kickstarter award) because the UE team saw they’d gotten $600k cash in the Kickstarter campaign and wanted a piece of that action – so why not make the suggestion to the team to upgrade?

2)    MWM isn’t a fully-staffed, self-reliant resource company; it is (or was) a woman-owned, small-business and loosely organized start-up company that is completely dependent on its volunteers to get the job done. How a “company” dependent on volunteers to get one project up and running (CoT) can suddenly think themselves successfully aligned/fully staffed (albeit with part-time volunteers) and resourced to take on a *second* MMO-driven product (even if its CoH revived) using a second and wholly separate fundraising opportunity without publicly acknowledging how they’re going to pay for the pre-negotiated “doable” rate that NCsoft is supposedly comfortable with (but then there goes Warcabbit saying they’ll need fundraising for new servers, networking, etc. on top of producing the money that actually *buys* the IP itself)… that’s not a company with good business sense or a detailed 5-year plan. That’s a bunch of guys flying by the seat of their pants trying to wing this (and maybe take some cash/bonus IT equipment/career development training home on the side, or hopefully get bought out by a bigger game developer/publisher down the road which is another great way to cash in).

3)   Like everyone here, I love CoH and I *want* to believe that the IP can be purchased, the engine licensed, and everything will be happy, hunky dorey come login day – but that’s a lot of blind faith to have in one company (let alone a volunteer-based company) and I’m just not that naive (stupid? yes; naive? no...). Opportunities for fiscal mismanagement come fast and often (even when started with the best of intentions) and that’s not cause to always see everything branded “ Save CoH” as only a good thing. In theory, yes it’s great news; in practical execution, those “i”s had better be dotted and every “T” crossed” on the business operations plan before any money ever changes hands.

Bottom line: there’s good reason to be happy if NCsoft is opening the door to discussions again (regardless of whomever they speak to – and it’s sad to think Brian Clayton’s team came so very close only to lose out because they didn’t want to license the engine -- *if* that was the real reason why their negotiations fell apart) but there’s also good reason to be cautious, reasonably skeptical and ask the tough, sobering questions which can still keep these projects on the road to potential future success. This is a publicly funded initiative, after all, so while folks can yell in another thread “YEAH, BUT WHAT DID YOU DO TO HELP?!” the answer is – we helped contribute the money required to make (COT/COH) happen (which you couldn't and still can't do without the fan base's financial support) ---- and now I say to the MWM team – good job getting on getting NCsoft to open this door again; good luck developing not one but two MMO IP’s simultaneously with a part-time volunteer staff, and most importantly --- in the immortal words of RuPaul herself…

“...DON’T F*CK IT UP.”
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 05:04:55 PM by Rubberlad »

Magus Prime

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #509 on: September 02, 2014, 04:55:35 PM »
Thank you, Downix.  Eager to see what the future brings!

pinballdave

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #510 on: September 02, 2014, 05:05:25 PM »
That's been asked, and answered, a least a dozen times since last night...

Maybe we should compile a list of FAQ's with quoted answers by downix and Irish_Girl

MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #511 on: September 02, 2014, 05:10:52 PM »
You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood

Very Cool. You know, if this works, there might be other licensing opportunities for CoT if it is that flexible. Imagine if you wanted to do a legit space opera game with Psi powers, blasters, etc. and could mode CoT to do a traveller-esque experience. It could radically effect MMO development cycles if it could work as a starting platform MMO.

To me, it seems that you have to include so many powers and effects for a Superhero game that you have almost everything you need for other genres. If MWM pulls this off, well let's just say, OMG that's freaking cool!
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adarict

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #512 on: September 02, 2014, 05:11:33 PM »

Either it will feel like CoH or it won't.   I plan to find out.   Knowing they are going for the same feel is important to me.

I was commenting that "similar game play" sounds more like what CoT is going for.   That's different than what Irish Girl said:That sounds like the goal is much more than "similar".

That was one of my points.  If they change the engine, there is the possibility that it still won't "feel" the same.  Doesn't mean it WON'T, and obviously, they are planning to keep it as close as possible, but when you are trying to take something that was heavily modified in the first place, to make it work the way we remember, and force it into a new engine, there may be some things that you either can't directly emulate, or it requires a lot more work and workarounds to make it do the same thing.

I think it is admirable that 1.5 is aiming to mirror the old mechanics as close as possible, but there is always the possibility that it can't be entirely done.  From Irish Girl's comments, she appears to be the sole person working on it.  If there are things that don't have a one to one equivalent, it may take her much longer to find a way around it.  I would also assume though, that there WILL be additional people working on it, so it may end up being a non-issue.

And just to be clear, I'm not implying that it is impossible, or that the 1.5 project is doomed.  I just don't think people should EXPECT to see the exact old game with new graphics.  Some things might still feel "off".  Those minor things could end up being ironed out through the process.  It is really too early to say one way or the other.  UE4 might be flexible enough that it isn't an issue, I have no idea.  I just don't think it is a good idea to be so unequivocal about there being no significant changes to the feel of gameplay itself due to the change of engine, especially this early in the process.

Overall, I am still quite interested in 1.5.  Having the old system back with a shiny facelift would be pretty darn fantastic.

Ezuka

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #513 on: September 02, 2014, 05:17:12 PM »
I think an FAQ sticky for this would be really helpful.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #514 on: September 02, 2014, 05:18:00 PM »
Overall, I am still quite interested in 1.5.  Having the old system back with a shiny facelift would be pretty darn fantastic.

Look at it this way...  If you don't like the "Update", you'll still have CoH1.0  to play.

Win/Win in my books.

candidate

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #515 on: September 02, 2014, 05:21:56 PM »
Quote
I simply think it's a decent OS with pathetically broken UI that doesn't belong on anything other than a tablet.

LOL, another one that has not heard of Startisback and other apps, that bring the start button back.

And prolly not even tried Windows 8.




Tacitala

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #516 on: September 02, 2014, 05:26:22 PM »
Thank you to everyone involved and the best of luck to you on pulling this off.  No pressure or anything ;)

Say what?

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AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #517 on: September 02, 2014, 05:27:39 PM »
LOL, another one that has not heard of Startisback and other apps, that bring the start button back.

And prolly not even tried Windows 8.

I've tried it and also tried three different programs that bring the start menu and desktop back, and I still don't care for it. I think it's a FABULOUS tablet interface (and if I can ever afford the Surface Pro 3, I'll certainly have Win 8.1 on it), but between Win 7 and 8, Win 7 is the clear winner for desktop users--especially for desktop users like me who own hundreds of PC games (ranging from 1998 releases to today) and have gotten them all to somehow finally work on Win 7. Sorry, but I won't be migrating over to 8 anytime in the near (or far) future. I'm happy you like it, but it's not everything to everyone.
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Shard

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #518 on: September 02, 2014, 05:29:44 PM »
You can make a new UI which does the job, as the results are under the hood

To expand slightly. The under the hood system for powers/effects was built to be general purpose rather than to emulate an an exact et of powersets. As the sets are built, new wrinkles get added. It should be straight forward to tailor new sets that are close.
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dpawtows

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #519 on: September 02, 2014, 05:32:45 PM »
I guess I'm not really understanding this point from everything, and it's probably just my own density. What I am assuming is that the basic way the powers are chosen and enhanced is identical between CoH and CoT. In other words, you choose Hover, then you six slot it, then you put enhancements in it - but not six of the same kind because, you know, that would be weird. What does it mean for APR to use CoT's build?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/959841