Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1712269 times)

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #440 on: September 02, 2014, 11:56:27 AM »
;D Yeah, It's pretty. You guys should see it in-game. hehe.

Well, you could always crank up FRAPS and show us... ;)

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #441 on: September 02, 2014, 11:58:04 AM »
Is that what the team has been proving to NCsoft :)

So far as I know, NCSoft hasn't seen anything from Revival. I'm not directly part of the purchasing effort, so I'm not privy to what they show NC.
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HEATSTROKE

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #442 on: September 02, 2014, 12:10:15 PM »
 Its great to see that Nc Soft is actually talking and open to possibly selling the IP, but we have a long way to go still. I applaud everyone who has worked on this to #SaveCoH.

 I am still hopeful that somehow character data can be rescued. One of my biggest concerns if character data is not available are that many veterans will not return to the game. I was thinking about this last night and im coming from my own personal view and I know the shared views of others.. Its twelve years later since the launch of City of Heroes. I am not the person I was then. I am married now.. with a family.. different responsibilities that require more time. I dont have the time to sit and play hours and hours and hours on end like I did previously. And in all honesty I dont want to play the same content over and over and over AGAIN that I already have. If I had to start over and remake every character and earn and purchase all those enhancements all over again I just dont know if I would want to do that. Would I remake everyone.. no.. but they are some core character that I would and even those are 25-30 plus characters..

 And having no idea what will happen to the maintenance mode long term or if those character will be ported over to CoH 1.5... Its a very challenging situation.. I know several people in my SG that I have remained in contact with feel the same way..

 Everyone of us will ABSOLUTELY play if/when the games comes back. The question is will they support the game like they did in years past.. will they stay long term..

 At this point im taking the Tony V position more seriously.. be patient.. and wait until everything unfolds..

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #443 on: September 02, 2014, 12:16:47 PM »
So, for the curious, would it be possible to enlighten us as to the current state of progress in APR?  Do you have any zones "finished"?  Can you walk around in any of them? Is there any kind of character creation in the works?
Also, just as an aside, are you re-creating the map geometries from scratch, or are you importing it from the game files?

I suppose I could be convinced to bring some APR-related enlightenment to the masses.
Let's see here... Zone wise...

Atlas Park - The zone with the most work into it, by far. Perhaps 70% finished. All the streets are laid out, many of the buildings are in place, Trees are even starting to be put down in places.
Steel Canyon - 20-30% completed
Galaxy City - 20-30% completed
Independence Port - 10% completed
Founders Falls - 20-30% completed
Talos Island 10-20%
Perez Park - 10%
"The Hollows" - 10%
Sirens Call - 5%
Pocket D - 50%
and of course, the zone we unveiled our move to Unreal Engine 4 with...
Ouroboros - 95%

Technically, I can walk around any of the zones atm. I'm nothing but a Rikti Drone, and I've got no powers or anything.
Since we're going to be using a version of the City of Titans UE4 build, more work on character creation and powers and what have you is dependent on their work schedule. Not that APR is lacking in work in the mean time!

The geometries from the meshes are currently mostly pulled from Legacy CoH, but rarely are they un-modified. Many meshes have simply had to be re-built from scratch for one reason or another.
Don't even get me started on textures. -shakes head- 64x64 textures for the sides of buildings might have cut it in 2004.

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff...I really should write all this down. heh
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FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #444 on: September 02, 2014, 12:22:32 PM »
I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff...I really should write all this down. heh

Neat!

It's fascinating stuff, too!  How much work was involved in the Town Hall building, as an example?

ukaserex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #445 on: September 02, 2014, 12:33:27 PM »
Its great to see that Nc Soft is actually talking and open to possibly selling the IP, but we have a long way to go still. I applaud everyone who has worked on this to #SaveCoH.

 I am still hopeful that somehow character data can be rescued. One of my biggest concerns if character data is not available are that many veterans will not return to the game. I was thinking about this last night and im coming from my own personal view and I know the shared views of others.. Its twelve years later since the launch of City of Heroes. I am not the person I was then. I am married now.. with a family.. different responsibilities that require more time. I dont have the time to sit and play hours and hours and hours on end like I did previously. And in all honesty I dont want to play the same content over and over and over AGAIN that I already have. If I had to start over and remake every character and earn and purchase all those enhancements all over again I just dont know if I would want to do that. Would I remake everyone.. no.. but they are some core character that I would and even those are 25-30 plus characters..

 And having no idea what will happen to the maintenance mode long term or if those character will be ported over to CoH 1.5... Its a very challenging situation.. I know several people in my SG that I have remained in contact with feel the same way..

 Everyone of us will ABSOLUTELY play if/when the games comes back. The question is will they support the game like they did in years past.. will they stay long term..

 At this point im taking the Tony V position more seriously.. be patient.. and wait until everything unfolds..

At the risk of being a little late for work, Heatstroke, I think many of us vet players can relate to your position. Am I looking forward to finding the time to clobber 1000's of Longbow, or waiting possibly years until enough people have incarnate level characters and we can form a large enough league with enough savvy players to take down Marcus Cole in The Really Hard Way badge effort?

Short answer is, "Heck yeah!".

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this. You'll have help in getting all the things you want in game, pretty much every step of the way, regardless of what server you call home.
This time around, there will be things that we'll see that we missed the first twenty or thirty times around. At least, I'm pretty sure I will.

Gotta jet.
And yeah, patience is a virtue - and kind of like a muscle. Use it or lose it.
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #446 on: September 02, 2014, 12:37:24 PM »
Neat!

It's fascinating stuff, too!  How much work was involved in the Town Hall building, as an example?

Town hall... If I never have to work on that building again, It'll be too soon.
Heh, Sorry. The town hall was the very first building I started working on. I was pretty much learning everything as I went, as well.

Basically, for any standard object. I use a method that I picked up waaay back when from Arcanaville, to pull a capture of CoH as it's running. (Thank you, Demos.)
This capture is a huge mess of everything that's being rendered at that time. So if I want, say, the Blimp. I have to pick out the blimp, and delete everything else. (Which can sometimes be quite a pain). Next up is making sure the model doesn't need any editing, some of the old models are...old. But we'll skip that for now.
The next part is by far my least favorite: re-skinning the UVW Mapping. Basically, in non-game-dev speak, this means attaching the texture so it shows correctly. So that the numbers on the side of our blimp are, well, actually in the correct spot. This is not an easy process, nor a fun one.
If everything looks good, I export the model and then import it to Unreal 4.
...Then I realize I did something wrong, and have to go back and fix it. Repeat that a few times.

A simple object like a trash can might take an hour, one of the pretty skyscrapers in Atlas Park tends to take a few days.

TL;DR: City Hall is my most hated object in Atlas Park now.
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Lead Developer and Master of Mischief - Revival Project.
Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #447 on: September 02, 2014, 12:40:11 PM »
TL;DR: City Hall is my most hated object in Atlas Park now.

Well, in that case... I'm sure I read somewhere that UE4 makes destructible objects easy to do... ;)

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #448 on: September 02, 2014, 12:43:11 PM »
Well, in that case... I'm sure I read somewhere that UE4 makes destructible objects easy to do... ;)

REALLY early back in APR's development, still in UE3, I was seriously considering making the entire zone destroyable... lol.
I should have taken pictures of the statue of Atlas, shot to pieces. lol.
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Fridgy Daiere

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #449 on: September 02, 2014, 12:51:59 PM »
Personally, if I'd known there was a discussion in progress with NCsoft, I wouldn't have then gone out and asked folks for money to fund the spiritual successor of a game that I was actively (but quietly) trying to buy back. That alone has all sorts of red flags - but I digress.

The single largest obstacle for any of the successor projects was holding the community together long enough to release the games.  It's like the "be back" rule of sales: if the customer leaves the premises saying "I'll be back," statistically he WON'T be back.  The goal then, is to keep him in the store until the sale is final.

In this scenario, going for the IP and launching CoX in maintenance mode enables all of the successor projects to keep us in the store, as it were.  Instead of the fanbase scattering to the four winds--making later marketing of the new products much more difficult for any of the new projects--we will be nicely grouped.  Instead of CoX being a distant fond memory, it will be fresh on our minds, again making marketing of the new games much more efficacious.

Rather than raising red flags, this strategy displays both business acumen and a strong sense of fair play.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #450 on: September 02, 2014, 01:10:59 PM »
For the EQ and WoW private servers I have knowledge of, it's replacing a single file, or even just manually editing an IP or two in the file already on your machine to point at the new servers. Pretty easy stuff if you have more computer knowledge than the average grandma. Haven't poked around in my i23 install but I can't see it being drastically different for CoH.
Literally running the executable with an extra parameter. Can be solved with a custom launcher easily.
Would someone be kind enough to PM and explain what SCoRE is.  I think I know, and Ive found a blog site by that name associated with CoH.
Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers.
I don't know exactly what APR/cox 1.5 really is, or how they are moving to unreal engine. Are they just building it from scratch and including the old environment and missions etc?
Yes.
My question is, if the binaries are turned over, and the IP rights are licensed, does that give the new device group the ability to legally reverse engineer the server? Would that even be worthwhile? I don't know if reverse engineering would make Cox 1.5 easier or not. If nothing else it could at least give them the ability to do updates to the original game.
It would not affect CoX 1.5 much if at all. If it becomes legal to reverse engineer the server and there is a live instance, I believe it would aid SCoRE's efforts quite a bit.
I'm totally ok with this, but my question based on that is.... Does that mean when Win 9 is released, the maintenance mode CoH is effectively shut down? Or, does it mean that the maintenance mode will run in perpetuity and Win 9 users simply won't be able to play the game? (I say this because I don't plan on upgrading to Win 9....also, some of us play CoH on OS X)...
The latter, as far a I understand.
tony one issue that been posted is a red flag to me. they posted that coh would be in maintenance mode till windows 9 comes out.
No, they didn't. What Nate said is that they are expecting Windows 9 to have compatibility problems with the game. If that is the case, it will become an issue by the time Win 9 gets widely adopted (unless you keep an XP/ 7 / 8 system around), but by then CoH 1.5 should be available as a replacement. I'm guessing there may be some sort of second sunset after the majority of the player base switches to CoH 1.5
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Surelle

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #451 on: September 02, 2014, 01:12:01 PM »
So for those asking what is APR?   :o

APR stands for Atlas Park Revival.  What is Atlas Park Revival?  :-\

Atlas Park Revival is Irish_Girl's project to take the existing geometries...the meshes as it were of the existing environment of City of Heroes and recreate them using Unreal Engine.  To what end?  To create the environment for an updated City of Heroes game with a newer game engine.  So while the Issue23 build of City of Heroes will not be able to be updated at all due to lack of the original source code.  APR will be using a license from the COT (City of Titans) build, which uses Unreal Engine 4, to make the next generation of City of Heroes.  Same COH IP, similar COH game play, updated graphics and capabilities.  What is being dubbed City of Heroes 1.5.  This version will be able to be updated with new content, power sets, story arcs etc.

Irish_Girl can correct me if I am incorrect in any of my understandings of this project.   ;D

Here is the link to the webpage.  http://apr.pc-logix.com/

Here is an example pic of Atlas Park in Unreal Engine.  http://apr.pc-logix.com/uploads/gallery/album_1/gallery_1_1_14817.jpg

Here is a video done in Unreal Engine.  http://youtu.be/Bg_xIAekCys

That looks fantastic and I am very impressed with the whole shebang!   My main concern is that it would take way too long to bring this project to completion even with a large team of volunteers who knew what they were doing but were working for free around their "real jobs, lives and families."

That being said, sign me up, Irish_Girl!   ;D  I really want to volunteer my help with this project (and getting the CoH backup running) if the NCSoft talks don't go south on everyone.  I'm an Irish Girl myself (okay, not so much a girl, I'm 48), currently in college for Digital Forensics.  I'm more of a hardware person by nature but I need to learn code inside and out anyway.  So what do you use?  C?  Point me in a direction and I will go there.  Incidentally, my daughter does 3D modeling for SOE games (they hired her while she was still in high school off some Blender samples she sent them) and would like to get involved should this project go live as well.  She does do basic coding too but she's really more into 3D modeling. 

Send me a PM.  Hit us up. 

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #452 on: September 02, 2014, 01:27:20 PM »
I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.

The "Classic COH" servers wouldn't necessarily have to shut down at any point at all for the U4 engined version, though I suspect it eventually would.

Thanks for the Sig addition, squire!

And I finally remembered where my avatar image is stored online. Everyone loves a unique David Nakayama original.

To be even slightly on-topic about this, while I'm aware this isn't even remotely a done deal, the direction this is going is awesome, to be frank (join the army).

I eagerly anticipate more news!
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smokesignal

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #453 on: September 02, 2014, 01:40:55 PM »
Amazing work and outstanding effort. Please be assured that even if some vets like myself seem absent and uninvolved, we remain attentive and excited. I don't care if I have to start at level one with absolutely nothing, I'll be there in my tights ready to throw fire.

Love.

FreckledAvenger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #454 on: September 02, 2014, 01:48:33 PM »
*comes out of deep lurker mode*

This is really good news. REALLY. Even though nothing's set in stone yet, it's amazing to hear about the effort that you all have put in to keep the hope alive.

And like many have said before me, I'm ready with wallet or skills or both to help out however I can!

Hobgoblin Steve

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #455 on: September 02, 2014, 01:57:22 PM »
Amazing work and outstanding effort. Please be assured that even if some vets like myself seem absent and uninvolved, we remain attentive and excited. I don't care if I have to start at level one with absolutely nothing, I'll be there in my tights ready to throw fire.

Love.

Id like to quote this for truth, as someone who checks this board a million times a day for updates :)

Thanks to everyone involved, we can't wait

Turgenev

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #456 on: September 02, 2014, 01:58:27 PM »
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?
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FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #457 on: September 02, 2014, 01:59:50 PM »
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?

It's an assumption, and a pretty unlikely one at that.

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #458 on: September 02, 2014, 02:00:48 PM »
I see a lot of possibilities and it is great that the team is thinking out of the box.

For those worried about the Original CoH shutting down - this opens the possibility that you may be able to fund your own server. If you have funds once the game is in escrow and you can load that snapshot onto a server - nothing would stop you from leasing your own copy and hosting a server.

All of the other folks can now license to actually use all the old lore in their game. I see a lot of continuity for the game this way. If you only ever want to play the old game - it will eventually fade away, but now it may live in many other ways and even that fading could take years to come. This is honestly better than what I had hoped for - now we just need to see if NCSoft is indeed actually open to the discussion.

Well done all and this is just step one. More work to be done and I am inspired!

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #459 on: September 02, 2014, 02:04:27 PM »
Question on "binary compatibility" with Windows 9. Is there more detail on what the incompatibility is?
There is as far as we know no actual incompatibility discovered yet. The issue is that when there is one - because that will eventually happen, if not with plain Win 9 then with Win 9 SP 1 (or whatever SP-equivalent terminology is used) or whatever comes after that - there won't be any way to patch the game and fix it.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.