And the mask comes off.

[Arcana]

Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.

I think technology has changed things in a way where its a lot easier - for good and bad - for more people to reach larger audiences.  As a result, you do get more homogenization of music, and in fact all art.  But I don't think that's a question of standards being dropped, or the overall quality of art dropping.  I think there is about the same number of good artists today as yesterday.  I think its easier for lesser artists to become more popular, and for more of them to find success.  But I don't think that's necessarily bad.  Those same forces also make it a lot easier for smaller reach artists who a century ago would have never found an audience to find one.  Its just that you have to look harder to find them, away from the center of mainstream distribution channels.

Also: tropes are not good or bad.  Take Inception, which I call Christoper Nolan's love letter to story telling.  Its loaded with tropes of course, but then again its meta-story is about the nature of storytelling: it *has* to have tropes by necessity.  Sure, there are probably too many save the cat scripts out there, but its only recently we've started critiquing things in terms of tropes and structure.  We admire Sergio Leone and call his use of tropes and structure "style."  One can only wonder if he came along today if the spaghetti western would be seen as the creation of a genre, or the tired repetition of a man out of ideas.

[MWRuger]

I think technology has changed things in a way where its a lot easier - for good and bad - for more people to reach larger audiences.  As a result, you do get more homogenization of music, and in fact all art.  But I don't think that's a question of standards being dropped, or the overall quality of art dropping.  I think there is about the same number of good artists today as yesterday.  I think its easier for lesser artists to become more popular, and for more of them to find success.  But I don't think that's necessarily bad.  Those same forces also make it a lot easier for smaller reach artists who a century ago would have never found an audience to find one.  Its just that you have to look harder to find them, away from the center of mainstream distribution channels.

I have had this discussion many times with my music and artist friends and they pretty much concur with your view. They would add that the plethora of mediocre music and art tend to drown out the better pieces that are being done.  Basically, very hard to hear one voice when everyone is shouting.

You can easily see this when you look at art and popular culture from the 20's and 30's. Only the cream is still well known. There many recordings and books and films that were made that no one has seen or heard for years. Occasionally, someone will "discover" a work that really is amazing that we have forgotten about, but believe me,  as much as I love early Jazz there is a ton of stuff that sounds exactly the same or with so little difference it doesn't matter.

[LaughingAlex]

I think it is fitting and proper to be proud of your country but it should always be tempered by an understanding that you are not alone on this planet and trampling over others to preserve profit margins for large corporations can lead to huge problems. Plenty of examples of this historical and recent.

That is exactly my view of things, in that one can be a patriot without going so far as to believe "might makes right".  To me patriotism in america isn't just believing in the country just because you were born here or believing ideals it was founded on and whatnot but both.  The country was founded as a republic eventually to both keep the colonies united but also allow for everything to eventually develop towards the society we are familiar with today.

Using the military "As a hammer" and treating every problem "As a nail" kind of makes us little different than everyone the forefathers were leaving behind so long ago and, to me, it steps us backwards.

[Thunder Glove]

Oh, what would I give for a single person in the world to understand even ONE point I ever made...

Whatever, I'm used to it by now. I could name at least one hundred other artists of today that are exactly the same. What did the "I know" end up as? Was there a point to it? Did he actually know something? Oh yeah... It was that when she was away, life wasn't worth living or that the house wasn't a "home" when she was gone. Sir Paul McCartney's message was to convey a love to someone.

Rihanna's song? Ummm... Is there a deep meaning behind wanting the p***y?

Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.

I could go back further.

"Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti" - and that song IS about sex, nothing more.

I'm not saying the Rhianna song is good, but claiming that music has been going downhill has been sort of a thing for as long as there's been music.  And the argument that one modern song has nonsensical lyrics or little meaning completely ignores the point that plenty of songs have always had nonsensical lyrics or little meaning.

[Arcana]

I could go back further.

"Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti Tutti Frutti Oh Ruti" - and that song IS about sex, nothing more.

You should have stopped off in the 70s and grabbed "A horse with no name."

There were plants and birds and rocks and things...

Indeed.

[FloatingFatMan]

You should have stopped off in the 70s and grabbed "A horse with no name."

There were plants and birds and rocks and things...

Indeed.

I'd rather listen to 70's music than 99% of the absolute dross that gets released these days...

[blacksly]

You should have stopped off in the 70s and grabbed "A horse with no name."

There were plants and birds and rocks and things...

Indeed.

I really hope nobody is going to complain about Purple People Eater.

[Minotaur]

I'd rather listen to 70's music than 99% of the absolute dross that gets released these days...

You missed out the "and get off my lawn"

[Twisted Toon]

I'd rather listen to 70's music than 99% of the absolute dross that gets released these days...

60's and 70's is my favorite era of music.

Did we seriously have a page or three of discussion on Starship Troopers?  ???

[JanessaVR]

Did we seriously have a page or three of discussion on Starship Troopers?  ???

Well my preferred version was done by RiffTrax Live! - it was hilarious.  ;)

[MWRuger]

Did we seriously have a page or three of discussion on Starship Troopers?  ???

It was a pretty interesting discussion of movie vs source material and always good to talk about Heinlein. Besides, it beats the hell out of another round of "Why haven't we heard anything? DOOOOM! The global conspiracy is keeping things from us about CoH"

[Kaos Arcanna]

Doom.

Now that was a fun game. :D

[Arcana]

You missed out the "and get off my lawn"

I think that's implied by the use of the word "dross."

Also, I actually like The Horse With No Name, but that might be because my parents had the album and I can still hear the song play when the room gets quiet.  In general, for me thought-provoking entertainment is welcome but not mandatory: I mostly like my entertainment entertaining.  I'm more opposed to incompetently stupid than deliberately stupid.  Sharknado is deliberately stupid.  Superman III is incompetently stupid.

Of course, then there's transcendentally bad, like Leonard Part 6 (a movie so bad I find people rarely mention it among lists of worst movies ever, because hysterical blindness blocks all memory of the movie).

[Arcana]

Doom.

Now that was a fun game. :D

Not a very good movie, though.  Even with Hercules and Judge Dredd in it.

[Power Gamer]

I can go even further back...

I went into the chandlers shop some candles for to buy,
I looked 'round the chandlers shop but no on did I spy
I was disappointed so some angry words I said
When I heard the sound of a (thump thump thump) up above my head

Traditional

[Kaos Arcanna]

Not a very good movie, though.  Even with Hercules and Judge Dredd in it.

I totally agree with you there.

[Arcana]

That is exactly my view of things, in that one can be a patriot without going so far as to believe "might makes right".  To me patriotism in america isn't just believing in the country just because you were born here or believing ideals it was founded on and whatnot but both.  The country was founded as a republic eventually to both keep the colonies united but also allow for everything to eventually develop towards the society we are familiar with today.

Using the military "As a hammer" and treating every problem "As a nail" kind of makes us little different than everyone the forefathers were leaving behind so long ago and, to me, it steps us backwards.

I can go even further back...

I went into the chandlers shop some candles for to buy,
I looked 'round the chandlers shop but no on did I spy
I was disappointed so some angry words I said
When I heard the sound of a (thump thump thump) up above my head

Traditional

Someone tangled the thread again.  Where did I leave those cable ties...

[Power Gamer]

lol

[Felderburg]

If the end of minority report was happy i read it completely wrong.

Your spoiler'd note is a theory I rather liked when I first heard it. I don't believe it to be the intent of the movie, though. But is a much more Dick ending.

(well, and the omission of the Tales of the Black Freighter, but I admit I never really liked that anyway)

It's my understanding that they released that as an animated feature with the DVD. I saw the theatrical release of Watchmen, because it was the thing to do... I still really think I should have just waited for the 5 hour long, full director's cut. I suspect it would have been better for me.

Sorry, but you can't convince me that standards haven't dropped.

In my Greek class in college, we translated an ancient Greek play that had a dick joke. Sure, it was making fun of Socrates, but still. There's high-falutin' stuff in every era, and low brow stuff in every era. Lucky for us, we have Roman graffiti preserved in Pompeii to prove it the universality of low standards.

Besides, there's plenty of brilliant lyrics in the modern day. Anyone can single out any single song that's crap, and say "things ain't what they used to be!" Or, as those arguing against you did, "things ain't any worse!"  Or as people above this post argue - lots of mediocre drowns out the good, sometimes - but there is indeed plenty of good to be found.

You can easily see this when you look at art and popular culture from the 20's and 30's. Only the cream is still well known.

Read what Neil Gaiman said about 50 Shades of Grey - in short: yes, it's popular now, but there are tons of books that were popular for a short time, that no one remembers now. The classics endure, and consistently sell forever - they aren't a flash in the pan like many huge money makers are.

[Vee]

Of course, then there's transcendentally bad, like Leonard Part 6 (a movie so bad I find people rarely mention it among lists of worst movies ever, because hysterical blindness blocks all memory of the movie).

It's entirely possible that recent unfortunate revelations have made Leonard part 6 hilarious. I for one am not willing to subject myself to it to find out though.