New efforts!

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

When did I ever say PvP is the only way to be better at CoX? You told me there was no transferable skills from PvP to PvE so I told you the things PvP can do in a PvE situation. Please quote me where I said PvP is the "only way to become better at CoX" Again quote me. This style is the most that entertains me (could be because I work with Data I found little data quirks entertaining) Not playing by your style is considered as"stop having fun guy"? Again going this just go back to what I said about you telling people you don't care where they from or what their experience is, you will tell that person how to live their life.

This is my opinion of course, but there were very few PvP-specific skills that could be transferred to PvE. Actually, i can't think of any offhand. The major thing the i13 revamp of PvP did was make it so that there was less overlap between PvP and PvE gameplay. Due to how extensively game mechanics changed there were very few build and play skills that were highly effective in both environments. In general the more highly optimized a build was for one environment the less optimized it would be for the other. i had a few builds that on some alts that were fairly effective in both environments, but that was a rare exception. PvP was good practice for adapting to different styles of gameplay, it was almost like playing a different MMO that happened to use the same graphics, but in terms of PvP giving additional insights into PvE gameplay it was not very useful at all. By design.

[hopelives]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

  ROFL! :)

[LaughingAlex]

This is my opinion of course, but there were very few PvP-specific skills that could be transferred to PvE. Actually, i can't think of any offhand. The major thing the i13 revamp of PvP did was make it so that there was less overlap between PvP and PvE gameplay. Due to how extensively game mechanics changed there were very few build and play skills that were highly effective in both environments. In general the more highly optimized a build was for one environment the less optimized it would be for the other. i had a few builds that on some alts that were fairly effective in both environments, but that was a rare exception. PvP was good practice for adapting to different styles of gameplay, it was almost like playing a different MMO that happened to use the same graphics, but in terms of PvP giving additional insights into PvE gameplay it was not very useful at all. By design.

Exactly one of the points I was trying to make.

Powers I knew that were "useless" in pvp, or very very weak.

All energy blast powers.  You could only knock a person once every ten seconds.  This was in pvp 1.0.  It was also common for people to have some minor -knock anyways, so most knocks in energy blast were not very good for it.

Alot of AoEs.  They do reduced damage to single enemies, not good for duals and not necessarily good for zone pvp either.

Fire blast powers fire breath and rain of fire.  Fire breaths damage is not bursty.  Rain of fire is easy to dodge unless your also hit with a strong -slow like freezing rain.  Most pvpers only used fire ball, fire blast and blaze(and quit when pvp 2.0 made blaze do less damage than flurryLOLOL).

Flight: Gets crippled when you attack, slowing you so much your left an easy target.  Especially for that night widow moving around at high speed with SJ and SS who'd get 4 attacks in one second on you with the first one taking off 90% of your health in a single shot and giving you a ton of degen damage on top of it.

Fire breath and rain of fire were great in pve, but were very unfavorable in pvp.  In fact most powers here were good pve but bad in pvp.

Edit: Damn my Z key for never working when I need it to.

[BadWolf]

I don't know if wow would be bad enough a punishment, only the legendary Superman 64 is up to this task! :P

I actually bought that game. When it came out. At full price.

Anything anyone tells you about how bad it was pales in comparison to the reality. :)

[MM3squints]

This is my opinion of course, but there were very few PvP-specific skills that could be transferred to PvE. Actually, i can't think of any offhand. The major thing the i13 revamp of PvP did was make it so that there was less overlap between PvP and PvE gameplay. Due to how extensively game mechanics changed there were very few build and play skills that were highly effective in both environments. In general the more highly optimized a build was for one environment the less optimized it would be for the other. i had a few builds that on some alts that were fairly effective in both environments, but that was a rare exception. PvP was good practice for adapting to different styles of gameplay, it was almost like playing a different MMO that happened to use the same graphics, but in terms of PvP giving additional insights into PvE gameplay it was not very useful at all. By design.

I agree, there are only a few that do x-fer over (like the ones I stated, number crunching popping insp reflex, team coordination, etc) I agree with your second statement, that's probably the reason why you could have 2 builds on one character. The retort I was making was pvp isn't completely useless in pve application. This is probably most prevalent with any supports. If you have a PvP support playing PvE, you will always be buff, there will always be atleast 3 stacks of CM or other mez control on you, you always will have SB/ID on you, and fort will be given to the dps. It's strange, even when we are not in a spiking situation and more laid back like in pve, the buff rotation remains the same. No PvP support will just sit there spamming healing aura and resurrecting even in a PvE situation, you will rarely even see them take any secondary powers unless they are a kin, sonic, or rad.

[LaughingAlex]

I actually bought that game. When it came out. At full price.

Anything anyone tells you about how bad it was pales in comparison to the reality. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7PlY_7TSJA&list=PL6537A2F60C44CF57

This guy disagrees.   He says it's so bad, it's a GOOD game LOL.  He just enjoys exposing and even discovering new glitches still undiscovered in it occasionally.

[Harpospoke]

That's the theory, here's the reality.

I would refresh my Shivan Shards and Nukes at around 3am, when those zones were mostly deserted, after hiding myself from searches and loading up on every bit of stealth I could scrounge up.  If I was unlucky, some trash-spewing jerks would be out to grief me, in which case I'd promptly abandon the zone and try again later.

Those of us who don't want to PVP, don't want to PVP.  Putting those goodies in PVP zones doesn't make us "earn" them, it just makes us have to potentially deal with griefer jerks to get them, and typically try to only be in those zones when said griefer jerks likely weren't there so we wouldn't be harassed.  Trying to lure PVE players into PVP zones just makes us resentful, it does not turn us in PVPers.

Four and half years of CoH taught me to hate PVPers with the flaming passion of a thousand suns.

Same here.   I'm even fearful that all of us announcing when we would go there to collect Shivans and Nukes will result in more PvP'ers deciding to wait in those zones in the middle of the night.

I can't quite recall when I first heard about Nukes.   It was some TF or something.   The guy leading it told us all a day or two in advance to "go get Nukes".  I had no idea what he meant until it was explained to me.    I was very depressed to learn I had to go to a PvP zone to get them.   As MM3 said:

No one is pointing a gun to your head to go in the zone to get the reward. Those rewards are powerful yes? That's probably why they put them in the zones.

Putting a very useful PvE reward in a PvP zone doesn't make any sense to me.  (Unless PvP players used Nukes and Shivans)

I guess I kinda get the allure of PvP?   My heart was racing the entire time I was in the zones.   It's definitely a rush...but I didn't find the feeling to be pleasant.   It's like being in a mild panic for many minutes in a row.   The few times I encountered anyone I would run.   Luckily most of my toons had TP and I was quick on the trigger with it.  (I'm still grateful to the person who came up with that keybind)   I did go into that one zone where teams try to take out turrents and stuff.  That was better since I had teammates.  But my powers weren't "optimal" so I doubt I helped much.

Like others, I heard that some of my favorite powers were useless in PvP.   I can't take Fly or AoE powers?   Gee...that's awesome.

Which illustrates the main reason I didn't care for PvP.   It didn't really feel like CoH to me.   I don't play any other games.  I've tried a couple and they don't play the same.   PvP....doesn't play like CoH for me so it's tough to get me interested.

[Baja]

I'm going to chime in on this PvP fiasco since it seems like everyone has forgotten about the ability to SWITCH BUILDS. Like sweet baby Jesus, you can literally have the best of both worlds if you want. Seriously if post i13 pvp doesn't work for you then don't play or quit crying about it, we all know it was better before and we all want it back, but you know what? Stomping your feet while crying won't exactly change this very fragile situation.

I pretty much exclusively played pvp in this game and loved it all the time. Even after i13 it wasn't a big deal because it meant I got to try something new and make other characters, which I loved doing. CoX is a game that really doesn't allow people to be the best at everything, incarnate powers were an attempt to fix this but really just made people grind away at the same select objectives. If you want a god mode character play something single player with no internet connection, I strongly suggest the prototype series.

My jaw is on the floor right now, we finally get the game we loved so much back (possibly) and the only thing people can do is say "You should fix X and Y problems because that's what made -me- not like a very specific attribute to this game." Just stop. Seriously. I was nothing but excited to hear this news and this thread is like a negative black hole where all of everyone's little problems are being aired.

If you have trouble with nukes, don't f*****g get nukes, problem solved. Oh but you think you're somehow entitled to nukes? Too f*****g bad. Deal with it. Nukes were put in a pvp zone so they couldn't be farmed to no end and exploited it's pretty obvious how over powered they were.

I plain and simple just want this game back in any shape or form, the only thing bugging me is that it could shut down again in a couple years for 1.5. I don't want 1.5 at all, I want the original, I could care less how cluttered and problematic it is because I know this community is capable of finding a way to fix said problems. Like many others I would have a machine dedicated to this game alone. I really don't see how they could port this entire game over to a new engine within that time frame but if they actually do port -all- of the powers and AT's I'd probably give it a try. I just don't see that as a reasonable possibility.

P.S If you want something good at pvp and pve there are all kinds of options. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie. How do I know? I did it all the time, and it didn't take very much time to figure it out.

[JanessaVR]

Nukes were put in a pvp zone so they couldn't be farmed to no end and exploited it's pretty obvious how over powered they were.

I repeat - if that were true, then all of the Incarnate Trials would have been PVP-only.  It is transparently obvious to the most casual examination that the reason those PVE rewards were put in those zones was to lure PVE players into those zones to be cannon fodder for the amusement of the PVPers.  It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

[Kistulot]

I repeat - if that were true, then all of the Incarnate Trials would have been PVP-only.  It is transparently obvious to the most casual examination that the reason those PVE rewards were put in those zones was to lure PVE players into those zones to be cannon fodder for the amusement of the PVPers.  It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

I speak as a minority of the PvE only crowd... but while I hated getting ganked in RV while trying to solo pillboxes for the badge... I did really enjoy my time hunting nukes, getting my shivan pet, etc.  It was different, and it presented a different way of thinking. 9/10 you ran into someone from the other faction in any non RV zone, they would run from you. I tended to do the same.

But a few times I was there alone, or with friends, and got into some PvP... it was kinda fun! Not in RV where you had people with PVP IOs and specialized builds, but it was kinda neat as an asside in content you really didn't need. Nukes helped in the Cathedral of Pain, but they weren't necessary - esp with incarnate powers being so common.

[MM3squints]

Same here.   I'm even fearful that all of us announcing when we would go there to collect Shivans and Nukes will result in more PvP'ers deciding to wait in those zones in the middle of the night.

I can't quite recall when I first heard about Nukes.   It was some TF or something.   The guy leading it told us all a day or two in advance to "go get Nukes".  I had no idea what he meant until it was explained to me.    I was very depressed to learn I had to go to a PvP zone to get them.   As MM3 said:Putting a very useful PvE reward in a PvP zone doesn't make any sense to me.  (Unless PvP players used Nukes and Shivans)

I guess I kinda get the allure of PvP?   My heart was racing the entire time I was in the zones.   It's definitely a rush...but I didn't find the feeling to be pleasant.   It's like being in a mild panic for many minutes in a row.   The few times I encountered anyone I would run.   Luckily most of my toons had TP and I was quick on the trigger with it.  (I'm still grateful to the person who came up with that keybind)   I did go into that one zone where teams try to take out turrents and stuff.  That was better since I had teammates.  But my powers weren't "optimal" so I doubt I helped much.

Like others, I heard that some of my favorite powers were useless in PvP.   I can't take Fly or AoE powers?   Gee...that's awesome.

Which illustrates the main reason I didn't care for PvP.   It didn't really feel like CoH to me.   I don't play any other games.  I've tried a couple and they don't play the same.   PvP....doesn't play like CoH for me so it's tough to get me interested.

Actually this is the the most sane justification why Shivans and Nukes are not supposed to be in PvP zones. They really don't have any application in PvP (unless you want to set off 8 nukes and try to lag the other team out, but I never even seen that)

[MM3squints]

I'm going to chime in on this PvP fiasco since it seems like everyone has forgotten about the ability to SWITCH BUILDS. Like sweet baby Jesus, you can literally have the best of both worlds if you want. Seriously if post i13 pvp doesn't work for you then don't play or quit crying about it, we all know it was better before and we all want it back, but you know what? Stomping your feet while crying won't exactly change this very fragile situation.

I pretty much exclusively played pvp in this game and loved it all the time. Even after i13 it wasn't a big deal because it meant I got to try something new and make other characters, which I loved doing. CoX is a game that really doesn't allow people to be the best at everything, incarnate powers were an attempt to fix this but really just made people grind away at the same select objectives. If you want a god mode character play something single player with no internet connection, I strongly suggest the prototype series.

My jaw is on the floor right now, we finally get the game we loved so much back (possibly) and the only thing people can do is say "You should fix X and Y problems because that's what made -me- not like a very specific attribute to this game." Just stop. Seriously. I was nothing but excited to hear this news and this thread is like a negative black hole where all of everyone's little problems are being aired.

If you have trouble with nukes, don't f*****g get nukes, problem solved. Oh but you think you're somehow entitled to nukes? Too f*****g bad. Deal with it. Nukes were put in a pvp zone so they couldn't be farmed to no end and exploited it's pretty obvious how over powered they were.

I plain and simple just want this game back in any shape or form, the only thing bugging me is that it could shut down again in a couple years for 1.5. I don't want 1.5 at all, I want the original, I could care less how cluttered and problematic it is because I know this community is capable of finding a way to fix said problems. Like many others I would have a machine dedicated to this game alone. I really don't see how they could port this entire game over to a new engine within that time frame but if they actually do port -all- of the powers and AT's I'd probably give it a try. I just don't see that as a reasonable possibility.

P.S If you want something good at pvp and pve there are all kinds of options. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie. How do I know? I did it all the time, and it didn't take very much time to figure it out.

Couldn't agree with you more,  and geting the game at its last state i23 is good enough for me. I think the conversation of what the PvP was going to be like is when Irish_Girl said she would get an earful in what 1.5 would look PvP would look like (boy was she right xD) Also like you said, if PvP is the reason is reason delayed, screw pvp, just get the game and be grateful. Once we have all the piece then worried about it when we cross that bridge

[Teikiatsu]

My approach to PvP was superior numbers.  I rarely went into Bloody Bay or Warburg alone.  I went with my wife or SG mates, and we watched each other's backs.  Normally the griefers worked solo or in pairs, so when our 3rd and/or 4th buddy de-stealthed and zerged one opponent then the other, we bought ourselves enough time to accomplish our tasks before the reinforcements arrived.

[JanessaVR]

Couldn't agree with you more,  and geting the game at its last state i23 is good enough for me. I think the conversation of what the PvP was going to be like is when Irish_Girl said she would get an earful in what 1.5 would look PvP would look like (boy was she right xD) Also like you said, if PvP is the reason is reason delayed, screw pvp, just get the game and be grateful. Once we have all the piece then worried about it when we cross that bridge

Oh, indeed.  If we get an image of i23, well, that's that, and hey, we're all happy - no changes can be made, but we have the game back "as was."  But - the Atlas Park Revival people will have the option to make changes with their version, and that's what started this off.  Me, I'm completely in favor of you PVPers getting whatever you want in your PVP zones.  No, really, I mean it.  Sky's the limit.  My only caveat - don't put PVE rewards in those zones, so that they can truly be PVP only, and we PVE players will never have reason to enter them.

[darkgob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7PlY_7TSJA&list=PL6537A2F60C44CF57

This guy disagrees.   He says it's so bad, it's a GOOD game LOL.  He just enjoys exposing and even discovering new glitches still undiscovered in it occasionally.

He doesn't actually think it's good.  There's a lot of ring-flying stages later in the LP (which he so far as yet to finish! he might have a record if he ever does) that he fast-forwards through.  He knows what he's playing.

For me, I realized it was an awful game when I rented it.  Picked up a car, walked up a slight incline, clipped through the incline and had the car fall on top of me.  Superman, trapped under a ramp with a car on top of him, helpless.

[MM3squints]

Oh, indeed.  If we get an image of i23, well, that's that, and hey, we're all happy - no changes can be made, but we have the game back "as was."  But - the Atlas Park Revival people will have the option to make changes with their version, and that's what started this off.  Me, I'm completely in favor of you PVPers getting whatever you want in your PVP zones.  No, really, I mean it.  Sky's the limit.  My only caveat - don't put PVE rewards in those zones, so that they can truly be PVP only, and we PVE players will never have reason to enter them.

So will I get a badge called "The Sky"? :P

[JanessaVR]

So will I get a badge called "The Sky"? :P

Yeah, sure, why not?  ;D

[Kistulot]

So will I get a badge called "The Sky"? :P

Everyone humming Jimi Hendrix in 5...4....3....2...

[MM3squints]

Everyone humming Jimi Hendrix in 5...4....3....2...

Yes

[Baja]

I repeat - if that were true, then all of the Incarnate Trials would have been PVP-only.  It is transparently obvious to the most casual examination that the reason those PVE rewards were put in those zones was to lure PVE players into those zones to be cannon fodder for the amusement of the PVPers.  It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

So as a pvp'r does that mean all my rewards shouldn't involve any PvE? Why should I have to spend hours farming for rewards? I mean technically if you don't want anything to do with PvP why should I have to suffer through PvE? I don't want to spend hours killing a single mob for some accolade, but I did. I don't want to rinse/repeat missions for incarnate rewards, but I did. I don't want to have to team up with random people to achieve some certain objective to gain levels, but I did. I'm pretty sure you having to spend -maybe- an hour trying to achieve a nuke isn't that big of a deal.

I think if PvE'rs don't want to be involved with any pvp then the opposite should be the only fair option. If that becomes the case, great, if not? I don't have a sliver of sympathy when it comes to -one- goal being in a pvp zone.