New efforts!

[ivanhedgehog]

The negative language just keeps a-comin.

I dont see it so much as bad but a true description of their feelings..I understand a sense of loss over characters you worked on for thousands of hours..there is nothing wrong with feeling that.. so they feel some bitterness over losing their longtime creations...understandable. I left 34 50's and billions inf/millions prestige....it is my choice to look past that and theirs to not be willing to look past that..nothing wrong with either choice.

[MM3squints]

This kind of shows something to me though.  There are parts that kind of say your being the stop having fun guy, in many ways, as your pointing out the absolute REQUIREMENTS for pvp that if you don't have, you near automatically lose.  The travel power issue definently falls into that category.  Flight was unviable compared to the super speed super jump combo that took up half of your powers guaranteed.  Especially with acrobatics also being a "requirement".  That killed the fun for a lot right there.  Certainly killed the mood for me.  Especially when I was trying to learn it and the stop having fun guys started throwing condescending remarks belittling my knowledge of the game when I actually knew the buff/debuff/cc mechanics better then they did(they thought for instance KNOCKBACK was time based, not magnitude based, total fail there).

It's not a requirement (you can pvp the heck you want like how I pvped with my ice/rad) those are the perimeters and tested powers to be the most effective in PvP. It's like anything competitive, you steamline the most effective components and build around that. Do you needs those components to "win" nope, but it will clearly give you an advantage. Best way to describe this is Nascar. Why do all the cars have similar builds? Why aren't people being more creative? Because the current design and tactics are proven what is the standard to win. Also same goes for the opposite. You can have most OP purrpled out PvP toon, but if you don't know how to play it like if you don't know how to properly drive a Nascar, you will not be effective. Again you learn you adapt, then you can make any toons into a PvP toon. I even had a AR/fire blaster. Possibly the worst combo in PvP and still did well.

Firstly, pvp doesn't help you pve better.  Really it doesn't all that much.  I know there are those who don't have any concept of hit and running, I'll tell you i'm not one of those.  I knew how to hit and run the mobs very well.  In fact I very, very rarely died, I was mercilessly efficient at taken even malta operatives and knives down when the above players were outright fearful of those same mobs.  I played a wide variety of archtypes even and having played multiple archtypes that also evolved my strategies.  This from just playing pve for crying out loud.

Not true, pvping makes you crunch ever number for your builds, makes players make literal hot rod toons to focus on their primary job and the part where they are lacking will be covered by their teammates. This makes teamwork and coordination very important. PvP helps reaction time and when to pop insp when needed. PvP dosn't make you a better pver? How come the first group that completed the Recluse Strike Force in all of City of Heroes server was my PvP group Old School from Triumph (This is when they had that weird crazy AV Regan "bug") and was the first to complete the Master STF. Everything in pvp is about efficiency and that carries over to pve. From Farming to general game play.

The luring pve players into zones is due to rewards that shouldn't have been exclusive to pvp in the first place.  Only true pvpers should be pvping one another, not those who'd only pvp for the reward.  If I wanted to pvp anyways I'd play an fps/rts/fighting game.

No one is pointing a gun to your head to go in the zone to get the reward. Those rewards are powerful yes? That's probably why they put them in the zones. Only true pvpers should be pvping others? Obviously your a pvper so you know what goes in the mind of a pvper. that statement in general is so bad (borderline saying ignorant) In a sense its like telling one someone "I don't have any of your life experiences, nor do I care for it, therefore, this is how I believe you should live your life." Want to know what the reward of PvPing is to a PvPer? PvPing. Doesn't matter what the target is who the target is, your in the zone you are flagged to be good to go, game on. The best part of your statement is basically telling me what you would like to do for "pvp" Try to figure out why I think this statement is so funny from everything you just told me and how ironic it is.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

I didn't really care one way or the other about this MLP thing until the final days of the city where every page of the shutdown thread was littered with MLP crap. It was annoying as hell. So thank whoever that was for my distaste for the herd

This isn't like someone who is gay or black being traumatized. They don't have a choice about who they are. Personally, I certainly don't have a problem with an 11 year kid being a fan. Are you an 11 year old boy? If you a 30+ year old man it's a little odd.

When I wore my boy scout uniform to school in the mid 70's I ate a heap of pancake for it. That was my choice.  The Broherd certainly is making a choice. To those of us on the outside it seems like you have got to be kidding about this My Little Pony thing.

When you call yourself "The Herd" or get tattoos of your favorite pony on your arm and run around saying things like "Friendship is Magic" what do you expect? No one is saying you can't do whatever you want but you can't stop people from thinking it's weird (but whatever).

Do what you like, by all means, but you cannot possibly be surprised when people look askance. There is a difference between tolerance and joyful acceptance.

i find much about MLP:FIM amusing despite not being a particularly big fan of the show. i watched a few episodes a while back and thought it had pretty good writing and characterization for a show aimed primarily at kids, but it never had a very strong appeal for me personally. That said, i do find some of the characters and concepts very amusing and the fandom rarely fails to entertain me. YMMV of course.
Long story short there are two ponies that would actually have a good chance of turning me into an active fan:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/14945257398_6e1eaa0eac_o.jpghttps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/15131822115_98f2d86663_o.jpg

[Scendera]

The one group who seems to get it are - rednecks - they just laugh at themselves. I have relatives from lower Ohio in the mountains and they just revel in the jokes.

We have to prove we got it somehow!  ;D

[LaughingAlex]

It's not a requirement (you can pvp the heck you want like how I pvped with my ice/rad) those are the perimeters and tested powers to be the most effective in PvP. It's like anything competitive, you steamline the most effective components and build around that. Do you needs those components to "win" nope, but it will clearly give you an advantage. Best way to describe this is Nascar. Why do all the cars have similar builds? Why aren't people being more creative? Because the current design and tactics are proven what is the standard to win. Also same goes for the opposite. You can have most OP purrpled out PvP toon, but if you don't know how to play it like if you don't know how to properly drive a Nascar, you will not be effective. Again you learn you adapt, then you can make any toons into a PvP toon. I even had a AR/fire blaster. Possibly the worst combo in PvP and still did well.

Not true, pvping makes you crunch ever number for your builds, makes players make literal hot rod toons to focus on their primary job and the part where they are lacking will be covered by their teammates. This makes teamwork and coordination very important. PvP helps reaction time and when to pop insp when needed. PvP dosn't make you a better pver? How come the first group that completed the Recluse Strike Force in all of City of Heroes server was my PvP group Old School from Triumph (This is when they had that weird crazy AV Regan "bug") and was the first to complete the Master STF. Everything in pvp is about efficiency and that carries over to pve. From Farming to general game play.

No one is pointing a gun to your head to go in the zone to get the reward. Those rewards are powerful yes? That's probably why they put them in the zones. Only true pvpers should be pvping others? Obviously your a pvper so you know what goes in the mind of a pvper. that statement in general is so bad (borderline saying ignorant) In a sense its like telling one someone "I don't have any of your life experiences, nor do I care for it, therefore, this is how I believe you should live your life." Want to know what the reward of PvPing is to a PvPer? PvPing. Doesn't matter what the target is who the target is, your in the zone you are flagged to be good to go, game on. The best part of your statement is basically telling me what you would like to do for "pvp" Try to figure out why I think this statement is so funny from everything you just told me and how ironic it is.

Everything you said here screams your a Stop Having Fun Guy.  You believe that pvp is the only way to become better at CoX including pve from number crunching more.  Not everyone does that and also even some pve'ers number crunch alot.  In fact I didn't use mids, I used a sheet of paper, a calculator, and knowledge of the mobs I dealt with.  Could I have used mids?  Sure, heck, I even did a few times, only to see if I could fit x or y power in, but I didn't look at the exact IO's in the build in mids, I used a sheet of paper to do that.

I'm also very familiar with coordinating with teammates.

Fact is your saying everyone should be pvping to get better a the game when in reality, it's just one way to do it and even then, pvp builds were not even close to being the most effective pve builds.  Because the strategies were different but you wouldn't know that.

You wouldn't know that because your no different then the scrub you probably think I am.  You believe your way of playing is the only way.  Pvp was your game, thats great.  But don't go saying we all suck for not being pvpers.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys

Quote: "Yep, that's right, he's the exact opposite of the Scrub...but just as annoying.
This kind of player takes the "pro" mentality to an annoying extreme, generally giving other tournament players a bad name (while his counterpart, the Scrub, takes the casual mentality to an annoying extreme and generally gives other casual players a bad name). In the real world, there's room for both, and game companies generally try to put something in their games for both Player Archetypes."

Now, I know they don't like being referenced but, hey, you sound way to familiar to me already.

You just come off as that kind of person, really.  Your saying your way to play is the only way to improve and only way to play.  You enjoyed that, more power to you.  I didn't enjoy putting up with people like ya who had that attitude.

[JanessaVR]

No one is pointing a gun to your head to go in the zone to get the reward.  Those rewards are powerful, yes?  That's probably why they put them in the zones.

Come now, you know that's not the case.  If that were true, all of the Incarnate Trials would be strictly PVP.  It had nothing to do with "risk vs. reward" and everything to do with "how can we lure PVE players into the PVP zones to be cannon fodder for the amusement of the PVPers?"  That was - blatantly - the only reason for putting them there.  And then people wonder why PVE players dislike PVPers so much.

[Felderburg]

But that doesn't make it...um, what's that word, starts with an "R"...oh, yes. Right. :) I'm saying, "Hey! Let's try to be nicer to people! It makes everyone's day better, it's not hard, and it even makes people like you more!" Is it going to work on everybody? No. Are insults going to stop because of it? No. But I'm going to keep trying because it's the right thing to do and it'll definitely never get done if everyone just gives up. I'm honestly surprised and a little bit depressed that I have to explain this to you, of all people.

Battle of the Wolves!

I'm with BadWolf on this one. Even though the comment was a minor joke, things like that build up. IronWolf, you mentioned that black people get called names; telling a black person on a forum to "go eat some fried chicken" wouldn't be as bad as certain name calling, but it would be offensive and contribute to certain stereotypes and a general air of making a racial group "different" or "the other". Saying "everyone gets called names" and advising people to "not take attacks personally" on the internet, because some jokes are unintentionally offensive, might be good advice for lowering an overly offended person's stress level, but it doesn't contribute to making the corner of the internet you have some dominion over a better place. In my fried chicken example, it's a slippery slope from furthering offensive stereotypes to name calling. Nip it in the bud at the start, and you avoid the whole thing entirely.

Sure, you don't want to have to type on eggshells because you might say something that is offensive. But once made aware of an offensive thing, it behooves a decent person to take note of the offense, and try to use it less.

I think this XCKD encapsulates the general vibe of things better: http://xkcd.com/471/

Come now, you know that's not the case.  If that were true, all of the Incarnate Trials would be strictly PVP.  It had nothing to do with "risk vs. reward" and everything to do with "how can we lure PVE players into the PVP zones to be cannon fodder for the amusement of the PVPers?"  That was - blatantly - the only reason for putting them there.

I don't think the designers wanted people to be "cannon fodder" - that was a side effect. It always makes me sad when I see stories like yours about people who were forever turned away from PvP because a few jerks griefed them when they were doing PvE stuff.

[Waffles]

While we're on the topic of PVP...

Pre-i13 PVP was probably some of the funnest and most psychotic PVP I've had in any game.

Post i-13 was just....ew.

Still, In what other game could you kick a catgirl off a forty story building, jump and skydive after them, and proceed to beat them down mid-flight and then finishing them off with eye-lasers?

[FloatingFatMan]

While we're on the topic of PVP...

Pre-i13 PVP was probably some of the funnest and most psychotic PVP I've had in any game.

Post i-13 was just....ew.

Still, In what other game could you kick a catgirl off a forty story building, jump and skydive after them, and proceed to beat them down mid-flight and then finishing them off with eye-lasers?

Or, in the case of my catgirl, skydive after them and get eaten. :p

[LaughingAlex]

Battle of the Wolves!

I'm with BadWolf on this one. Even though the comment was a minor joke, things like that build up. IronWolf, you mentioned that black people get called names; telling a black person on a forum to "go eat some fried chicken" wouldn't be as bad as certain name calling, but it would be offensive and contribute to certain stereotypes and a general air of making a racial group "different" or "the other". Saying "everyone gets called names" and advising people to "not take attacks personally" on the internet, because some jokes are unintentionally offensive, might be good advice for lowering an overly offended person's stress level, but it doesn't contribute to making the corner of the internet you have some dominion over a better place. In my fried chicken example, it's a slippery slope from furthering offensive stereotypes to name calling. Nip it in the bud at the start, and you avoid the whole thing entirely.

Sure, you don't want to have to type on eggshells because you might say something that is offensive. But once made aware of an offensive thing, it behooves a decent person to take note of the offense, and try to use it less.

I think this XCKD encapsulates the general vibe of things better: http://xkcd.com/471/

I don't think the designers wanted people to be "cannon fodder" - that was a side effect. It always makes me sad when I see stories like yours about people who were forever turned away from PvP because a few jerks griefed them when they were doing PvE stuff.

My story of pvp and CoX, where to begin.

I talked with some, I was on virtue, I was curious about it.  This group I was with though started telling me to toss alot of powers I'd grown accustomed to on my character.  It wasn't just that though, these were powers that were vital to the make, theme and everything of the character.  A fire/stormer pve build, requires rain of fire and fire breath both to really kill enemies fast enough to be effective in teams and also defend itself.  Active Defense 101: Kill your enemies fast if you can, if your fire blast, kill the minions and lieutenants first with your three AoEs(not one).  People with only fireball get killed many times purely for not killing the lieutenants and minions in time.

Now I had other defenses, yes.  I had freezing rain and everything.  I didn't use flight on this char, I used super speed, but I made up for that with good positioning when I did use gale.  Freezing rain wasn't just to stop attacks from coming as much, it was to debuff resistances so I could kill them faster.  I knew how to herdicane, in fact I even had a lot of advanced herdicane tactics mixing even tornado into the mix with a fairly wide variety of terrain features(such as the shallow curve pin, in which I'd pin mobs into a curved wall rather than a flat 90 degree corner).

So, I was being told by this one person so many powers suck.  She told me super jump and super speed were both requirements and then told me acrobatics was required as well.  She'd be condescending to me, somewhat.  Her friends did nothing but power level in pve, never fighting anything but freaks and council or some other farmable enemy.  They also didn't take any joke as a joke, they took everything seriously.  I was feeling like it wasn't worth it.

Then the conversation with her friend who taught her everything, that conversation really turned me away.

The person flat out said "I taught <player> everything you so BETTER listen to me!", the person was somewhat snide and insulting even.  I then thought a long time about it.  This person was very forceful, and annoying to me.

A certain grief moment in pvp when I tried it on a controller way before that didn't help, either, got slaughtered there to when some friends of mine made the utterly stupid decision to go in without a full team with any force multipliers.

With all that I decided, fuck it, they are all unpopular for a reason, let them suffer for it.  Indeed, pvp 2.0 came along, I was left with a mixed feeling.  A spiteful side of me was left "Well those stop having fun turds will move on, no more harrassment from them" another side of me was left "well geesh, now I'll never get around to pvp now".  I fully understood castle's decision, though.  He was inspired by another game, guild wars, to have the powers behave differently.  He just did what GW did poorly.(In guild wars, skills in pve behaved differently in pvp, it was done so a skill to good in pvp could be nerfed without impacting pve).

[MM3squints]

Everything you said here screams your a Stop Having Fun Guy.  You believe that pvp is the only way to become better at CoX including pve from number crunching more.  Not everyone does that and also even some pve'ers number crunch alot.  In fact I didn't use mids, I used a sheet of paper, a calculator, and knowledge of the mobs I dealt with.  Could I have used mids?  Sure, heck, I even did a few times, only to see if I could fit x or y power in, but I didn't look at the exact IO's in the build in mids, I used a sheet of paper to do that.

When did I ever say PvP is the only way to be better at CoX? You told me there was no transferable skills from PvP to PvE so I told you the things PvP can do in a PvE situation. Please quote me where I said PvP is the "only way to become better at CoX" Again quote me. This style is the most that entertains me (could be because I work with Data I found little data quirks entertaining) Not playing by your style is considered as"stop having fun guy"? Again going this just go back to what I said about you telling people you don't care where they from or what their experience is, you will tell that person how to live their life.

I'm also very familiar with coordinating with teammates.

Fact is your saying everyone should be pvping to get better a the game when in reality, it's just one way to do it and even then, pvp builds were not even close to being the most effective pve builds.  Because the strategies were different but you wouldn't know that.

When again did I say everyone should be PvPing to get better? Again quote me. So far what I'm seeing from you is your retort to me is putting words in my mouth. This means you can't argue back with my retorts, so you need to make your own narrative with fake facts to better argue your side. There is a search function please tell me when am I saying all these things? You said "Its a fact I said" so show me.

You wouldn't know that because your no different then the scrub you probably think I am.  You believe your way of playing is the only way.  Pvp was your game, thats great.  But don't go saying we all suck for not being pvpers.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys

Someone has a lowered self confidence... When did I call you a scrub or anyone? Why do you think I call you a scrub, because you see yourself as one so you think that's what others think of you? Again quote me when I called you a scrub. Don't put words in peoples mouth and think higher of yourself. "Again when did I tell people people you have to play like this?" or "you all suck for not being pvpers" Quote me again.

Quote: "Yep, that's right, he's the exact opposite of the Scrub...but just as annoying.
This kind of player takes the "pro" mentality to an annoying extreme, generally giving other tournament players a bad name (while his counterpart, the Scrub, takes the casual mentality to an annoying extreme and generally gives other casual players a bad name). In the real world, there's room for both, and game companies generally try to put something in their games for both Player Archetypes."

You are just loosing me here, you are just pulling stuff out of air (not that you have been doing that for this entire rambling)

Now, I know they don't like being referenced but, hey, you sound way to familiar to me already.

You just come off as that kind of person, really.  Your saying your way to play is the only way to improve and only way to play.  You enjoyed that, more power to you.  I didn't enjoy putting up with people like ya who had that attitude.

From my take of all this, you have nothing to comeback to. Everything you said was pulled out of thin air and you are just trying to put words in my mouth. Biggest irony of these last few post is you are proving to have some kind of superiority complex that you say you hated about PvPers

[FloatingFatMan]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

[Blackout]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

I don't know if wow would be bad enough a punishment, only the legendary Superman 64 is up to this task! :P

[Mistress Urd]

Reality time, everyone is subject to insults at some point and sometimes just because it amuses the one insulting you. Blacks get called names, fat people get called names, skinny people get called names, white people, gay people, bronies, goths, anime lovers, gamers, politicians, actors, musicians and everything and everyone in between.

The point is when you narrow your own perspective down to take every single thing said personally - you ignore that as a famous man once said - people live lives of quiet desperation. We all get called names. We offend often without meaning to and often in jest when especially the internet it is nearly impossible to read emotion. So if you on the internet beieve everyone is attacking you - you are going to be miserable.

The one group who seems to get it are - rednecks - they just laugh at themselves. I have relatives from lower Ohio in the mountains and they just revel in the jokes.

Thanks for all your work IW. Going out there and taking lumps for all of us. I just hope folks can calm down just a little and see how things go.

Its still a long road folks, we still have hoops to jump through, but the goal is in sight.

[MM3squints]

I don't know if wow would be bad enough a punishment, only the legendary Superman 64 is up to this task! :P

That is just mean xD

[LaughingAlex]

The feeling is mutual.  Your reminding me more to much of the person who made me NOT want to pvp, way to damn much.

I do not like pvp and you keep defending it but then you say pvpers are better players than pve'ers constantly.  I don't like that.  At all, you just do not get it.  You never will.

Also I was quoting tv tropes in the mini quote where you said I was pulling stuff out of thin air.  *Facepalm*

What I am saying is it seems like the way you write EVERYTHING in your post you don't like non pvpers.  To you, we are all inferior players.  The fact you speak like pvpers are better automatically for being pvpers and saying pvp has depth when I look at it and see "This is just builds and number speaking and not alot else even more-so when you spend all that time making chars to counter the fotm".  The fact you spent all that time, for what?  To beat a few complacents?  While I like City of heroes, I don't see it as starcraft 2 or guild wars(even that had it's problems I dare not mention here that made anyone want to run for the hills, problems that really damaged it's community that were purely due to the community).  Or any fighting game for that matter.

I'd rather just play the game with my optimized and re-optimized builds and ignore a game played by SHFG's and scrubs.  I was left with no respect for the pvp crowd from so many who I dealt with, and my guns on my barrier are fully armed against them.

Again if I played pvp in a game, it would be a shooter, real time strategy game, or fighting game.

[LaughingAlex]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

No, forced to play CO pvp.  And then find how boring it is that even with a good build 90% fights ended up dragging on for 30 minutes both players doing the only things they can do until one of them physically tires and finally makes a defensive mistake.  Or how about a dual lasting for two hours?  Only because you ran out of different things to try to kill said player.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention, alot of those SHFG guys moved to CO after the pvp nerf, before growing bored of CO to(since it's pvp was even more your build since it was so imbalanced that some attacks could do 20k hits with only one second setup, or the absolute crippling challenge requirement otherwise the other player will just block and heal anytime he feels like it since blocking removes 80% of the damage taken from everything).

[Blackout]

That is just mean xD

Aha! Ahahaha!! >:D
I joke of course, It'd be interesting to see the pvp make a comeback in CoH, I only really became interested in partaking in it after it had already completely died out  ;D

[MM3squints]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

Don't lie you play WoW to be a panda :P

[JanessaVR]

My thoughts on PvP.

I suck at it, so I don't do it.

Also, people who smack talk are mindless cretins who should be shot, set fire too, drowned, shot again, buried in peat for 5 years, shot again, then fed feet first through a wood chipper. ;)

What's left should then be forced to play WoW. (Just because I'm a sadist!)

If you were a true sadist you'd demand they play WoW while having to listen to country music - but that violates several international treaties on inhumane treatment.  :)