New efforts!

[BadWolf]

I guess he's not of the mind of a typical "mmohtg player", particularly those who just think in terms of end game and skipping the game.  Many game developers probably wouldn't imagine people using things like AE to powerlevel because they aren't ones to powerlevel or demand others play very specifically or only play for the reward.  Some people don't have fun playing a game, they only have a small amount of fun when they are rewarded.  To them a game is just as well be another job, though they'll never admit to that, deny it even to themselves that they only do what they do for that big carrot that, if they get it, odds are they'd quit :/.

That would be a sensible excuse, if not for the fairly large number of people who were leaving feedback on the beta for that issue that said things like, "You know you can level from 1-50 in about eight hours with this thing, right?" and "This particular set of mobs is only balanced because you can't make a whole map of them--without other enemies of that faction, they're very easy to beat and give amazing XP. This is really, really broken and can't be launched as it currently stands." That should probably have tipped him off. Just a little. :)

[Azrael]

The key word there really is "authenticity" - if we get our game back, and the new team is guided by someone like War Witch, Positron or Brian Clayton - or all 3, ideally - then even though the rest of the team would be new, it'd still be pretty much Paragon Studios under a new name, so we'd have the continuity to minimize the effect of the closure period on the future development of the game.

Sound points. 

Yes. 

The 'Fulcrum Shift' would be to have War Witch, Positron and Brian Clayton involved in some capacity.  Even if the 'new' team was guided on a consultative basis, they would have more 'authenticity' in terms of getting those undeveloped issues out as 'intended' and 'authenticate' the development effort going forwards. 

The worst the 'new' team could do would be to approach the said individuals and get them involved in some form.

In short, you don't need to get the entire 'band' back together.  Just the 'key' members...

Azrael.

PS.  As for Ed.  My fondest memories of CoH are pre-ED.  I remember it very well.  I could six slot Energy Torrent for damage.  But forgo accuracy.  I could four slight flight and have turbo boost.  I could have perma hasten quite easily.

I was rather bemused by IOs and the sort.  Far more complicated than the CoH's original pick up and play.  Sure, I've done IO builds and had fun putting them together...and had fantastic builds.  I'd still rather have a tank pulling have the Hollows map and 6 slot Hasten for perma hasten.  That was fun.  Pre-ED didn't stop by Blasters or my Defenders from face planting.  IOs were just a more complicated exploit in my view.  Just as the AE was 'good intentions and all that' but surely the developers could have seen how human nature would exploit that too..?

In the end, it didn't matter.  Some people made good content.  Some people like spam fritters with their power levelling.

I don't see how pre-ED was any less legitimate than post ED.  Post ED didn't stop CoH subscribers getting bored and leaving the game.  MMO crowd can be a fickle bunch.  As we found out when CoH's closure was announced.  CoH was like a ghost town.

That said.  Many things post ED I did like.  Power diversification.  The power colours.  ITF (the best 'TF' since the Volta one for me...) was a brilliant swan song even though I wasn't super keen on TFs.

But that's CoH.  Everyone has their own view on what they liked about it.  Paragon did a decent job, with NC Soft's investment, of transforming the game beyond those early issues.

If you offered me CoH pre ED right now?  I'd take it.  (Though I might miss the Dominator archetype... :P

[roribeedm]

Sound points. 

Yes. 

The 'Fulcrum Shift' would be to have War Witch, Positron and Brian Clayton involved in some capacity.  Even if the 'new' team was guided on a consultative basis, they would have more 'authenticity' in terms of getting those undeveloped issues out as 'intended' and 'authenticate' the development effort going forwards. 

The worst the 'new' team could do would be to approach the said individuals and get them involved in some form.

In short, you don't need to get the entire 'band' back together.  Just the 'key' members...

Azrael.

Wasn't Manticore the one who designed most of the good story arcs early on? If he was having him and the "Lore Bible" I heard he maintained back would be a huge boon to any new team.

[Azrael]

Wasn't Manticore the one who designed most of the good story arcs early on? If he was having him and the "Lore Bible" I heard he maintained back would be a huge boon to any new team.

Well, just look at the signature moments in CoH's development history.

In issues 1-4 it should be apparent.

After the buyout of Cryptic by NC Soft?  It should also be apparent.

Key individuals drove its development.

We don't need all 80-90 members of the Paragon Studio that was 'let go.'  With all due respect.  As mentioned by Golden Girl, just having 3 key developers from that studio would be more pivotal.

Whether that pans out.  Or even the buy out pans out...is another matter.

But I feel it would be worth trying should things come to pass.

Azrael.

[Harpospoke]

Sure an All Blaster ITF might have been a little more difficult in the final fight with Romulus but I'm certain it could be done.  Hell now that I think about it I kind of want to try...

That's one of the things I would like to try too.  I routinely made all Controller teams for the sheer fun...but never tried it with other AT's.

[Fanta]

Yup, developers will go from hero to goat over night - once they get the game and start moving forward.

It will be too slow, too fast, not releasing with I24, Not releasing with I23 instead going with I24, Not a long enough Beta, too long a Beta - why do you need a Beta the game was working! The launcher isn't the same, the launcher doesn't have the options we wanted, the old account data is back and so i can't get a name I wanted to from an old player, the account data isn't back so I can't have my old stuff.

When is the market coming back? Why don't you change.....market, naming conventions, costumes, rewards, blah,blah,blah before after or when the game starts.


It will immediately go from happy to have the game back to second guessing what decisions the new team make. That is exactly why I am the middleman - to delay that until we actually have the game. Then - they get the onslaught.

Hopefully, if and when this happens, the new team will share their vision/outline of what's going to happen with the community. Things don't always go according to plan, but good communication, and a direction, go a long way.

If the game comes back in I23/24 form, with no serious performance issues, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Well, I might whine a little if I have to start from scratch.

I seriously don't expect much to change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The rest can wait until the dust settles!

[Harpospoke]

Now thats what I wanted out of him.. so how did Mids assist me in that goal. I built a character that has +38% To Hit Buff and +60% accuracy without Aim. With Aim it jumps to 98% to hit buff. That means that Sureshot can hit pretty much almost any target. He has hit Paragon Protectors while running Moment of Glory. Obviously he runs Targeting Drone and Tactics

His cloaking device is obviously in his secondary, however he has a superior device. So he has the +Stealth Unbound Leaping in Combat Jumping as well.

Because Devices doesnt not have Build Up.. I slotted in about a 35% Damage Buff from IO;s which simulates his ability to detect weak spots in target causing them more damage. He also runs Assault. This was further enhanced with the Musculature Alpha ability and Reactive Total Core Incarnate abilities.

He uses the Increased Perception Unique IO which helps him see stealth targets and he can pretty much ignore a Widow's Smoke Grenade.

I eventually took those Drones from the Incarnate stuff as pets and even had that cheap pet you could drop for a few minutes that would die the moment it was attacked.. I took those because it was cool running around with 4 tech drones...

Now he doesnt have perma hasten.. or any defense in his build. He does use his rocket books and can hover around very fast ( three slotted hover and three slotted swift with Flight enhancements )

I said all that to say that you CAN build completely for a concept and using Mids at the same time.

I used MIDS for most characters, but I see here that I could have gotten much deeper into it!  :)

[Harpospoke]

Yup, developers will go from hero to goat over night - once they get the game and start moving forward.

It will be too slow, too fast, not releasing with I24, Not releasing with I23 instead going with I24, Not a long enough Beta, too long a Beta - why do you need a Beta the game was working! The launcher isn't the same, the launcher doesn't have the options we wanted, the old account data is back and so i can't get a name I wanted to from an old player, the account data isn't back so I can't have my old stuff.

When is the market coming back? Why don't you change.....market, naming conventions, costumes, rewards, blah,blah,blah before after or when the game starts.


It will immediately go from happy to have the game back to second guessing what decisions the new team make. That is exactly why I am the middleman - to delay that until we actually have the game. Then - they get the onslaught.

lol...sounds like you are familiar with MMO players.   ;D

[Celt]

I'm ready to have CoH back.

Damned ready.

[Codewalker]

Wasn't Manticore the one who designed most of the good story arcs early on? If he was having him and the "Lore Bible" I heard he maintained back would be a huge boon to any new team.

If I was picking a dream team, I'd love to have him (Sean Fish aka Manticore), Joe "Hero 1" Morrissey, War Witch, Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney, C.W. "pohsyb" Bennet, Hosun Lee, Phil Zeleski, Keetsie, and probably lots of others I'm forgetting on board in heartbeat, though I think most of them I've been stalking keeping up with are at new jobs now they probably wouldn't want to leave.

Positron? Could be okay, but only if he had some of the others there to keep him in check. He's got good ideas about some things, but others that make Jack on his worst day look positively sensible. If he'd had his way, the Incarnate game would have been 5 times grindier with multiple tiers of salvages and complex currencies galore to work your way up through. I wouldn't want him as the sole voice of "experience" running the show.

[AlienOne]

If I was picking a dream team, I'd love to have him (Sean Fish aka Manticore), Joe "Hero 1" Morrissey, War Witch, Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney, C.W. "pohsyb" Bennet, Hosun Lee, Phil Zeleski, Keetsie, and probably lots of others I'm forgetting on board in heartbeat, though I think most of them I've been stalking keeping up with are at new jobs now they probably wouldn't want to leave.

Positron? Could be okay, but only if he had some of the others there to keep him in check. He's got good ideas about some things, but others that make Jack on his worst day look positively sensible. If he'd had his way, the Incarnate game would have been 5 times grindier with multiple tiers of salvages and complex currencies galore to work your way up through. I wouldn't want him as the sole voice of "experience" running the show.

I would absolutely LOVE to get Back Alley Brawler back... His responses to the community (and ability to stop bickering in threads) as well as his sense of humor was legendary. I met Joe Morrissey both in-game and in real-life, and he's a really cool dude. I based all of my heroes on a story arc I created around Hero 1 (hence my name AlienOne), so it was pretty awesome to meet him in real life at Comic-Con 2009 when I did.

[LaughingAlex]

That would be a sensible excuse, if not for the fairly large number of people who were leaving feedback on the beta for that issue that said things like, "You know you can level from 1-50 in about eight hours with this thing, right?" and "This particular set of mobs is only balanced because you can't make a whole map of them--without other enemies of that faction, they're very easy to beat and give amazing XP. This is really, really broken and can't be launched as it currently stands." That should probably have tipped him off. Just a little. :)

Yeah, perhaps, it may be he may have forgotten or he changed or something.  Go figure.  It amazes me how the average mmorpg player can have an especially one-tracked mind mentality of reward though, even though I played CoX for a while and even played CO for a while after shutdown.

[CheerGunbunny]

That's one of the things I would like to try too.  I routinely made all Controller teams for the sheer fun...but never tried it with other AT's.

I was part of an all-melee ITF.  spent forty five minutes beating on Rommie, we gave up.  Could not maintain enough beating on him and healing ourselves.  :(

[Biz]

So I started looking over my old Mids builds and what not...and it got me pondering.

Does anyone else feel like they would be a total noob and slightly lost on Day 2 if the game ever relaunches?

Especially if we have to start brand new accounts from scratch and I don't have my old builds to work from.

I will be totally and completely blind as far as putting together a decent IOed build.

Hopefully it'll be like riding a bike, and I'll remember once I hear the music as I load in.

[doc7924]

So I started looking over my old Mids builds and what not...and it got me pondering.

Does anyone else feel like they would be a total noob and slightly lost on Day 2 if the game ever relaunches?

Especially if we have to start brand new accounts from scratch and I don't have my old builds to work from.

I will be totally and completely blind as far as putting together a decent IOed build.

Hopefully it'll be like riding a bike, and I'll remember once I hear the music as I load in.

I wouldn't. I never played builds - I just played what I thought was cool or if I had a good idea for a concept in mind.

Of course I tried to make the build good with IO's and what not but I didn't make a big deal out of it.

I only used a MIDS build once and that was a friend who sent me one for a tank and I tried it and it worked out great.

But otherwise I just wing it.   

[Mistress Urd]

That would be a sensible excuse, if not for the fairly large number of people who were leaving feedback on the beta for that issue that said things like, "You know you can level from 1-50 in about eight hours with this thing, right?" and "This particular set of mobs is only balanced because you can't make a whole map of them--without other enemies of that faction, they're very easy to beat and give amazing XP. This is really, really broken and can't be launched as it currently stands." That should probably have tipped him off. Just a little. :)

I recall the commentary after of "City of instant 50s" or "AE babies" who didn't know where Kings Row is.

Personally, I'd rather release something late that works well than something on time that functions but is broken. I felt that way about arena also. Once something has the reputation of damaged goods, it takes quite a bit of effort to reverse it.

[CheerGunbunny]

So I started looking over my old Mids builds and what not...and it got me pondering.

Does anyone else feel like they would be a total noob and slightly lost on Day 2 if the game ever relaunches?

Especially if we have to start brand new accounts from scratch and I don't have my old builds to work from.

I will be totally and completely blind as far as putting together a decent IOed build.

Hopefully it'll be like riding a bike, and I'll remember once I hear the music as I load in.

IO'd? :p I only had IOs on one toon...they were sets, 3 of them...2 endu mod ones, and one melee one.  I found/bought those (had pile o inf)....and decided IOs were entirely too grindy/farmy (and the sets were really too "twinky min/max" on top of that) for my taste.  What can I say? I totally rock the uber-casual gamer thing.  :)  and my distaste for gear/crafting/farm is the biggest reason why NOTHING else can hold my attention.....the only MMO for me, is our fair city.

[Felderburg]

Wasn't Manticore the one who designed most of the good story arcs early on? If he was having him and the "Lore Bible" I heard he maintained back would be a huge boon to any new team.

There were tons of cool stories written after he left. And if you look at the Lore AMAs (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA) you can see that there are quote a few plot lines that were dropped because various writers left - so he wasn't the only one driving good stories.

Incidentally, the Lore AMA also reveals that while the "Story Bible" was generally followed, as head honcho Positron didn't want to force the writers to hold to it, "or else" - if they had a cool idea that didn't contradict anything in game, they could go for it, even if the Story Bible originally didn't allow for it.

[GamingGlen]

Does anyone else feel like they would be a total noob and slightly lost on Day 2 if the game ever relaunches?

Nope.  I'll make a new character and start pounding the pavement, er, I mean the mobs on the street and have a grand ole time.

Especially if we have to start brand new accounts from scratch and I don't have my old builds to work from.

I do not need my old characters and only one I would re-create.  Having Icon gave me ideas for new characters.  And by characters I mean personalities, not powerset or build  combinations.

I rarely used Mids, maybe 2-3 times.  I kept track of stuff on some scrap of paper, but otherwise could do that stuff in my head.

[silvers1]

I was part of an all-melee ITF.  spent forty five minutes beating on Rommie, we gave up.  Could not maintain enough beating on him and healing ourselves.  :(

Odd... the fastest ITFs I had been on were all melee.  I remember one all-shield ITF, now that one was epic. :)