New efforts!

[AlienOne]

I loved[/u those characters.  I loved them [not] because they were OP, but because I put a lot of time and effort into making them that way. Every time I took down a group of bad guys in just one AOE attack or could one shot a boss or go toe to toe with an EB and not break a sweat, I knew I had earned that easy victory. It also made me want to constantly push boundaries and eagerly await new content that promised to be more challenging because I knew I had a couple of Heroes that could really take a beating or dish out some insane damage. 

In the long run the "Nerfs" were good for balance, because it meant being OP was something you had to learn how to do and earn through the various methods and when you achieved it, it really did feel super.

Hear, hear.... That's really what kept me in CoH for well over 7 years. The "road to being super-powered," the time required, and the investments necessary to put yourself in a position where other players would look at your gameplay on Task Forces/Game Test videos and go "wow, how can you even do that?" was what kept me coming back for more. It's what made me dawdle around in Mid's for days/weeks at a time planning my next "build." It's what made me create a 52-page Word document guide on how to play/build human-form Warshades that got viewed on the forums more than 15,000 times. It's essentially what made me feel "wanted" or "accepted" by a community when I was in one of the most depressed times of my life (I couldn't find a job for over a year).

I have absolutely nothing against people who play to "role play," but the amount of joy I got out of creating awesome builds and figuring out cool new ways to show off my "power" has yet to be matched by any other game.

I guess with City of Heroes, the formula for difficulty/time/investment relative to "payoff" was such that it was perfect enough to keep people playing one really old game with "substandard" graphics for longer than other games even existed from concept to completion (I'm looking at you, Tabula Rasa).

Really the only "nerf" I didn't care for was the nerf to Quantum Ray gun/Cyst powers... I know that may sound ridiculous because there were so many "n00bs" out there unfamiliar with how to actually play Kheldians that complained about that weakness, but that played into what I was just talking about--the feeling I got when defeating a cyst by myself as a Warshade back when I actually HAD a weakness to cysts was a HUGE payoff. After they nerfed it, I was like, "meh...I defeated a cyst. So what? All I had to do was pound on it for a bit without fear of even being touched."

[OzonePrime]

If nothing else, we can have a gathering of torches at Atlas, to celebrate our return! :)

[rathe101]

Hear, hear.... That's really what kept me in CoH for well over 7 years. The "road to being super-powered," the time required, and the investments necessary to put yourself in a position where other players would look at your gameplay on Task Forces/Game Test videos and go "wow, how can you even do that?" was what kept me coming back for more. It's what made me dawdle around in Mid's for days/weeks at a time planning my next "build." It's what made me create a 52-page Word document guide on how to play/build human-form Warshades that got viewed on the forums more than 15,000 times. It's essentially what made me feel "wanted" or "accepted" by a community when I was in one of the most depressed times of my life (I couldn't find a job for over a year).

I have absolutely nothing against people who play to "role play," but the amount of joy I got out of creating awesome builds and figuring out cool new ways to show off my "power" has yet to be matched by any other game.

I guess with City of Heroes, the formula for difficulty/time/investment relative to "payoff" was such that it was perfect enough to keep people playing one really old game with "substandard" graphics for longer than other games even existed from concept to completion (I'm looking at you, Tabula Rasa).

I'll have to agree with this 100 fold. I played City of Heroes for years, and I loved the game more then any other game I've ever had, and a huge part of it, was the ability to create something that was overpowered, but knowing that it was only that way because of the hours/days/years of work i've put into it. The risk vs reward aspect of the game was spot on. I spent so much time on my bots/traps mastermind that my wife even jokes that I spent more time on my character then I did on her. I miss CoH, and all of the amazing things we could do in it.

[kiario]

Yes, I agree, this is really what sets the game apart from all other MMO's. There were so many power sets and combinations possible. And add to that no cool down on pots, what other MMO has that :)

[Ironwolf]

It was already posted on other facebook groups months ago, plus it's not like anyone is demanding names of the buyers to send them letters of thanks or offers of assistance. And I haven't seen a single post regarding writing letters to NCsoft to push for the sale to go through. Personally I think that's the more important thing rather than ignoring that it's happening. If absolute silence was required, this thread should have been ended as well and Ironwolf should have just posted "Someone's trying to buy the game but I can't talk about it at all" and then walked away.

No matter what the circumstances are, people are going to talk about any buy out attempt they hear about, whether it's just rumors or a complete hoax. It can't be stopped. People love the game and want it back and the slightest sliver of hope is going to get tongues wagging. If a conversation on facebook is going to sink the deal, next time the attempt needs to be kept completely silent, no posting here or anywhere else by anyone even tangentially connected to the attempt, and then there won't be any discussion going on.

I very much doubt that'll be the case though. As long as the people keep their conversations on facebook or these forums or anywhere that doesn't interfere with the buyers or NCsoft, I don't see the harm in talking about it.

It is not top secret it is just it won't help for 100,000 letters to show up asking to sell the game. The main point is we tried that manner before and it was counterproductive. The pressures of the community didn't help the first effort - it made it harder. I know for a fact if I let the cat out of the bag people would be second guessing them and leaning on them for information.

I volunteered to take that pressure onto me and off of them. You can call me the first new unofficial community relations officer for the new group! I do talk to the lead Dev about every 2 weeks or so and get updates on where the game purchase is currently at. I honestly have had very few conversations about what hapens after the purchase because that isn't my call.

The folks who buy this will make it THEIR GAME. They paid for it and I intend to let them find their own way of moving forward. I have suggested a few things - I do not expect them to follow my suggestions - they are just my opinions. I may disagree with them in the future on the direction of the game/games coming out in the future - but for now I am completely on the same page as they are - get the game step one.

After that let the flood gates open and I will happily step away and quietly wait for the opening day to occur. I am more than happy for the community to send me messages, emails or even call me - I did post a way to contact me in an earlier post. Basically we just kind of all decided this would be a very low key effort and no grandstanding. I think it is just the personalities involved, we all seem to be low pressure sorts.

I do understand speculation but I don't know who the backers are (money guys) for all I know it could be Jack Emmert or a legion of other folks. I am using for this effort the old 7 habits of effective people - area of control and area of concern. I personally can only control the information I am given and spread along with conversations I have had with members of the team. I have a rough idea of what they would like to do and so I fill it out somewhat and ask for feedback if I am on target or not so far? They have said I am doing well so far and so I remain cautious and confident.

The folks who are behind it have been members of these boards either now or in the past. They truly are among us as fans and players - regardless of what positions they may have had in the past with CoH. So, please forgive me if I don't answer some of your questions that may come up because I often honestly don't know on some points and at this stage those questions aren't my concern. My concern is getting the game back - by hook or by crook.   

[Golden Girl]

The folks who buy this will make it THEIR GAME.

Which means it could go either way - a return to awesomeness, or a large amount of non-awesomeness.

[Ironwolf]

Yup, developers will go from hero to goat over night - once they get the game and start moving forward.

It will be too slow, too fast, not releasing with I24, Not releasing with I23 instead going with I24, Not a long enough Beta, too long a Beta - why do you need a Beta the game was working! The launcher isn't the same, the launcher doesn't have the options we wanted, the old account data is back and so i can't get a name I wanted to from an old player, the account data isn't back so I can't have my old stuff.

When is the market coming back? Why don't you change.....market, naming conventions, costumes, rewards, blah,blah,blah before after or when the game starts.


It will immediately go from happy to have the game back to second guessing what decisions the new team make. That is exactly why I am the middleman - to delay that until we actually have the game. Then - they get the onslaught.

[Spiny Lobster]

There is one thing they could change that would make it a deal breaker for me, and that's being able to fight tons of enemies at at time and winning.  Only Asheron's Call and City of Heroes have captured that for me.  I hate the one on one or one on three type (And its a struggle there!) of combat that prevails in MMO's.  I guess its like I want an action RPG's combat with legions of enemies stuffed into my MMOs :)  So long as they don't touch that I can roll with near anything!

[Ironwolf]

You can rest easy on that front - from every contact I have had with these folks they seem to really want to make the game experience the same. They "get" CoH and why people love it.

[Lucretia MacEvil]

I know for a fact if I let the cat out of the bag people would be second guessing them and leaning on them for information.

... you realize that this kind of statement only intensifies my desire for information, right?

That said, keep on going, Mystery Buyer People!

[MWRuger]

Iron wolf, I understand what you are saying. My view is this:

Right now I have nothing.  No game, no place to play CoH or anything even close.

When/If the game comes back, it may not be exactly the same. It may be exactly the same. I may love it. I may hate it (very doubtful). But the point is I WILL GET TO DECIDE whether I want to keep playing and supporting it with my money.

So whatever happens, STEP ONE - Get Game Running.

There are no other steps.

Not a single one that matters at this point.

I appreciate the update. I make my usual offer to help if I can in anyway. Just pass along my well wishes to whoever is doing this and my thanks for even trying to do this. I hope they succeed, but even if they fail, I thank them for the effort.

As I also thank all those who previously tried and failed. You can't always win, but you always lose if you never try. Thank you all!

[mrultimate]

Iron wolf, I understand what you are saying. My view is this:

Right now I have nothing.  No game, no place to play CoH or anything even close.

When/If the game comes back, it may not be exactly the same. It may be exactly the same. I may love it. I may hate it (very doubtful). But the point is I WILL GET TO DECIDE whether I want to keep playing and supporting it with my money.

So whatever happens, STEP ONE - Get Game Running.

There are no other steps.

Not a single one that matters at this point.

I appreciate the update. I make my usual offer to help if I can in anyway. Just pass along my well wishes to whoever is doing this and my thanks for even trying to do this. I hope they succeed, but even if they fail, I thank them for the effort.

As I also thank all those who previously tried and failed. You can't always win, but you always lose if you never try. Thank you all!

+1

[Ironwolf]

I will also say thank you for everyone who tried to buy the game earlier. You laid out the path we need to follow to be successful.

Without the first Hail Mary effort we would not have gathered the informaton we needed for this attempt or meet the people we needed to move forward.

We found out the customs and methods of business are slow and steady. So many lessons learned from those who tried and failed. It's like the first Hamidon raids - success built on failures that added knowledge. We just have to hope we have learned enough.

[AlienOne]

I will also say thank you for everyone who tried to buy the game earlier. You laid out the path we need to follow to be successful.

Without the first Hail Mary effort we would not have gathered the informaton we needed for this attempt or meet the people we needed to move forward.

We found out the customs and methods of business are slow and steady. So many lessons learned from those who tried and failed. It's like the first Hamidon raids - success built on failures that added knowledge. We just have to hope we have learned enough.

I'd just like to mention that my birthday is July 15th... If someone decided to, say, make an "announcement" that day for my birthday, I wouldn't be mad....


:P

[Des_Tructive]

I'd just like to mention that my birthday is July 15th... If someone decided to, say, make an "announcement" that day for my birthday, I wouldn't be mad....


:P

I hoped the same for May 26, with the same reasons. ;)

[kiario]

For me the city will always be the city, of course some changes will happen when a new company ownes it. I does not really matter to me. I have full confidence in the new owners because they like the game as much as we do. Nothing can take away the soul in the City.

[roribeedm]

For me the city will always be the city, of course some changes will happen when a new company ownes it. I does not really matter to me. I have full confidence in the new owners because they like the game as much as we do. Nothing can take away the soul in the City.

Two quotes spring to mind.

One I can't remember in it's entirety, but it was in a TV series and the town had been destroyed and the mayor or someone was explaining to the main characters that a town wasn't the buildings or the land, it was the people. And that's what City of Heroes is. It's not the game itself, a clone could spring up and as long as the people were there it would still be City of Heroes no matter what it was named.

The other is from Babylon 5, and is used by DJ Pheonyx  at the end of his shows: "I believe that when we leave a place a part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in these halls, when it is quiet and just listen. After a while you will hear the echoes of all of our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone, our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit that the part of me that going will very much miss the part of you that is staying." Part of CoH has stayed within all of us, and wherever it resides, part of us is still there. If NCsoft were to fire up the servers privately, they would hear the echoes of our conversations, the cheers of victory after a difficult battle, the cries of anguish after a crushing defeat. They would see the shadows of hundreds of thousands of heroes everywhere they looked. We have not left Paragon. We carry it with us every day, everywhere we go. And it carries a piece of us with it wherever the server's drive may be stored.

[LaughingAlex]

Well, those were examples off the top of my head...but especially running permanent Unstoppable is a sign something's broken....

:)

Also, I never used Mids.  every character I made, ever, was concept driven.  Their powersets were always dictated by their backstory.  I'm actually kinda proud of that, and yeah that's kinda elitist/snobby of me.  I loved Paragon for the STORIES....the plot lines as well as the wild bios of other players.

I wouldn't say your being elitist myself :).  I do the same thing with my characters, they have to fit a concept.  But see I ended up getting into roleplaying on virtue.  What happened more was, I'd come up with a powerset combo and find out how to min/max it after, not before.  I very rarely used mids either except to plan out the order I took the powers but often, I'd do all the slotting on paper.

And I kept my build designs practical.  I almost never went for an "Awsome yet impractical" concept, as I felt it unnecessary to go for full purples nore would I begin to solo on 8x until perhaps the last year of the game(when I really started to get rich in the game).  I can still remember the, I think I had 67.5% global recharge on my kin/energy blast defender.  And even more on my fortunata, but even so I was able to shave alot of the expense of influence off and make her into a very powerful high defense mini-dominator.  Those were the two most expensive toons I made.

But ultimately every character I made was designed around my style of play, which evolved over the years as an especially aggressive and adaptive style of play.(note though I didn't bother with pvp, I didn't like pvp 1.0 or 2.0, nore did I like the players playing 1.0 yet hated 2.0's tendency to be even MORE broken).  Yet, they all kept to the theme, which ultimately is the reason I favored CoX over CO, since CO punishes you for trying to stick to theme(for a game as easy as it is, it can also end up hard for the worst reasons if you make a gimped character and many powers are neigh-useless, as in literally neigh-useless not just compared to better ones).  CoX you could make any theme then min/max it if you want.

I honestly don't think ED really stopped very many players.  Sure many believe it was a disaster, timing and all I can understand that(all to well with pretty much the same mistakes plaguing CO it's ENTIRE lifespan when it did get attention).  But I noticed that CoX was still far more popular then any other super hero mmorpg on the pc.  All of us are players here who were long time players and I certainly look forward to things to come.

[LaughingAlex]

Hear, hear.... That's really what kept me in CoH for well over 7 years. The "road to being super-powered," the time required, and the investments necessary to put yourself in a position where other players would look at your gameplay on Task Forces/Game Test videos and go "wow, how can you even do that?" was what kept me coming back for more. It's what made me dawdle around in Mid's for days/weeks at a time planning my next "build." It's what made me create a 52-page Word document guide on how to play/build human-form Warshades that got viewed on the forums more than 15,000 times. It's essentially what made me feel "wanted" or "accepted" by a community when I was in one of the most depressed times of my life (I couldn't find a job for over a year).

I have absolutely nothing against people who play to "role play," but the amount of joy I got out of creating awesome builds and figuring out cool new ways to show off my "power" has yet to be matched by any other game.

I guess with City of Heroes, the formula for difficulty/time/investment relative to "payoff" was such that it was perfect enough to keep people playing one really old game with "substandard" graphics for longer than other games even existed from concept to completion (I'm looking at you, Tabula Rasa).

Really the only "nerf" I didn't care for was the nerf to Quantum Ray gun/Cyst powers... I know that may sound ridiculous because there were so many "n00bs" out there unfamiliar with how to actually play Kheldians that complained about that weakness, but that played into what I was just talking about--the feeling I got when defeating a cyst by myself as a Warshade back when I actually HAD a weakness to cysts was a HUGE payoff. After they nerfed it, I was like, "meh...I defeated a cyst. So what? All I had to do was pound on it for a bit without fear of even being touched."

Totally agree with you there, I felt some other changes were also unnecessary.  I kind of felt the debt nerf was unnecessary, as I almost never actually had problems even fighting some of the tougher enemies in the game, since I played my characters correctly.  People complained blasters sucked when, in reality, they made mistakes with them.  Same with any AT, really.

I never made the common mistakes or I learned from my own, such as;

1: Using fireball on lone enemies wasting endurance, especially after the flairs buff.
2: Not picking targets with intention to destroy on a blaster, but instead only waifing away with only fireball and one or two single targets when a rain of fire+fire breath +fireball chain would have not only wiped the mobs but guaranteed survival.
3: Kept build up on auto cast, that's a sure sign your playing the wrong AT and WILL die dozens of times.
4: Generally using AoE attacks on lone enemies that are highly endurance in-efficient for those enemies(I didn't need stamina for a reason, I didn't use as much yet still out-damaged other blasters).
5: Skipped set-defining powers.  That was perhaps the one most bad players repeatedly made that guaranteed a high faceplant rate.

There are more, but those are the ones that come to mind for me and blasters.  The kheldian changes I can half agree with, but I also feel ya there in that it seemed the changes were made due to people not knowing how to play them.  I agreed with the damage changes, for sure, as they did no more damage than a defender, and nova form certainly did a little less then needed.

But the debt change, I was left thinking "only reason they were implementing that was because some people never learn how to play better".  When I played a blaster, I knew that I was best off destroying by hitting hard where it counts, that I needed to remove the damage sources before they became a problem.  I was proactive on them, many weren't, and so while I didn't get destroyed very often I found many blasters tried to be reactive and, well, died before they could react :).

[Dev7on]

I will also say thank you for everyone who tried to buy the game earlier. You laid out the path we need to follow to be successful.

Without the first Hail Mary effort we would not have gathered the informaton we needed for this attempt or meet the people we needed to move forward.

We found out the customs and methods of business are slow and steady. So many lessons learned from those who tried and failed. It's like the first Hamidon raids - success built on failures that added knowledge. We just have to hope we have learned enough.

That's a relief for me because when I had an idea to try to get the game back I was in A LOT of pressure from the community and I'm pretty sure that Ironwolf is in A LOT of pressure also. I feel sorry for him and I do understand what he's saying on my view point. I know it's going to be nerve-racking once we have the game back. We just need to.....stay calm, stay quiet, keep being patient, and stay confident. I know everybody is anxious but, we don't want to mess everything up!