well things got complex.

[Yoru-hime]

You asked for an address and you got it. Why?

Perhaps...

...you asked nicely and someone was feeling helpful?
...you suggested that you might have business relevant to the legal department? (You mentioned a subpoena.)
...there are legal requirements or company policy requiring them to provide such information if court business may be involved? (See above. I know where I work, if there's a hint of lawyers, they want the legal office involved immediately.)
...this isn't really a big company secret and you didn't imply that you were just going to harass them over an issue they consider dead and gone? (Has anyone ever tried to get this particular piece of information before?)

There are plenty of explanations that are far simpler than the one you posted. Are any of them necessarily right or wrong? The only person who knows for sure is the one who answered your request.

I certainly wish you all the best in gathering information from NCSoft, and don't want to dissuade you from seeing what else they might be willing to share, but your reports make it very difficult to see the line between the solid information you've obtained and your interpretation of those facts. You're doing a form of research, so structure this sort of post similar to a research paper. Start with what you did and how you did it (Who did you contact? How did you contact them? [phone, email, letter?] What did you say?). Follow up with what you found out, in as straightforward a fashion as possible (Just the facts: Who responded? What did they say? How long did it take to get a reply?), then finish with your interpretation of your findings (I think this means that...). I know how tempting it is to jump to the juicy part, but mixing things as you do makes it very hard to form an independent opinion of the information you've retrieved.

[Ironwolf]

All I could think of as a reply was' "wild eyed pistol wavers who aren't a fraid to die......."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNw6J9g5ahw

[Ironwolf]

Who
What
When
Where
How

Answer those as you get to them.

[JaguarX]

I certainly wish you all the best in gathering information from NCSoft, and don't want to dissuade you from seeing what else they might be willing to share, but your reports make it very difficult to see the line between the solid information you've obtained and your interpretation of those facts. You're doing a form of research, so structure this sort of post similar to a research paper. Start with what you did and how you did it (Who did you contact? How did you contact them? [phone, email, letter?] What did you say?). Follow up with what you found out, in as straightforward a fashion as possible (Just the facts: Who responded? What did they say? How long did it take to get a reply?), then finish with your interpretation of your findings (I think this means that...). I know how tempting it is to jump to the juicy part, but mixing things as you do makes it very hard to form an independent opinion of the information you've retrieved.

yeah I wished all the information posted about the dealings from now to all the way to the beginning was posted in that structure. Usually it's "wI know a guy that know a guy that know a guy that might have contacted them  because *opinion* opinion* *opinion* and they didnt sell because *opinion *opinion* but we cant give details but they wont sell because *opinion *opinion* so NCSOFT is *opininion *opinion*.

I think if it postings of that matter were structed as you suggested, with only facts laid out, then it would be clearer of exactly what happened, what went on, the reason ,the process used, what worked what didnt work, and such. No telling maybe they turned down the offer because the offerer was coming across as a d-wad at any suggestion that benefitted NCSOFT. Who knows.

But they was Joshex structured and said seems to have become the norm. All a person have to do is say, NCSOFT rejected the "reasonable" offer, while never stating what the reasonable offer was or verifying if the offer was in fact reasonable to the seller, and people run with it as NCSOFT is being buttholes. But when it's a reason conjured outside circumstanstial evidence that is not addding to the rumors, opinions and guesses that "prove" ncsoft to be the villain then all of a sudden they want the strictly facts and such proving it. When in reality the facts should matter for both ways or none for both ways.

[Joshex]

So... that entire conjecture is based on solely the fact that NCSoft gave you an address for their legal department when you asked for it.

Yeah, pretty much what I expected.

no, they gave me the legal address for Marvel, and not just a legal department but the department that had handled thier particular case.

[Golden Girl]

Hi titan, I've been absent a while.

things in my life have gotten very complex since I went back to college, I was intending to take legal actions to try and get CoH back again someway or another, I had a lawyer lined up but havn't had time to contact him (he'll be busy at town hall for a while anyways concerning the library)

oh well lets get this on track to City of heroes as that is where I'm posting it. I have found out some information regarding the shutdown that I intend to share.

the shutdown was due to a combination of factors.

Marvel VS NCSoft : the people at NCSoft would be happy if someone could straighten out that case on better terms. NCSoft was given a ruling by the court that it thought was a win. that seeing as Marvel at that time had no plans for an MMO of it's own NCSoft was not guilty of the charges, but an added implication from that was ignored. "if Marvel ever did develop such software City of Heroes could be served a cease and desist."

and thats what happened and why the shut down was so sudden, marvel served NCSoft with a cease and desist and refrain from conversing publically about the terms.

the case between marvel and NCSoft is still open for appeal. Naturally NCSoft is merely trying to take the verdict gracefully, but outside forces are welcomed.

I have an addess for a subpoena concerning this case supplied by our former overlords. and honestly this problem needs to be cleared up first before we can even enter into talks to get the game back.

also any plan Z projects are baiting Marvel to try and create characters like thiers and take you to court over it. if that happens I would suggest opting to reopen NCSoft's case for a further appeal allong with your own.

it is my understanding of the situation of the attempted talks of buying the IP that Paragon was given a valid price but the terms could not be met, according to this sitation the terms were simply "if you want to do this you need to settle all the discrepencies with marvel or you can't charge money for the game" and paragon's employees did not like that honestly cause they didn't have the time or money to battle Marvel over such a topic. - thats the second issue of the shutdown. the people who needed to act did not have the time nor money to do so.

NCSoft no doubt considered the cost of an appeal and with it's legal costs decided it would cost more than the game typically earns in 3 years (which is what any decent lawyer would advise against) So yes i figure there is some sort of inability to act from NCSoft's financial perspective.

it is my expert opinion that the following should be prepared before Marvel is taken on, 3 carefully prepared characters from other series and or custom made characters who are in direct violation of Marvel's likeness rights, then prepare short and decisive placating comments to illustrate that the concept of your character is entirely just emotion and feeling because those are things no company can legally own. the characters should be an expression of feelings. thats the start of the appeal.

after that you need to state that although characters similar to marvel's trademarks could be made in city, they were not made often and the moment the moderators find out the character will be 'nerfed'. now I will note this was only touched on briefly in NCSoft's case and the wording was not made to make it a definite argument against Marvel's claims so it may be a nice trump card. (moderators delete this bit if you feel necessary)

if you can prove that said costume combinations are illegal in game, you also need to prove that marvel does not exclusively own the trademark or copyrights to certain aspects such as wolvarine's claws or the hulk's green rage form. for that you'll need other prepublished characters who also untilize these 'trademark aspects'. they wont be hard to find. beastboy gorrilla form rage anyone? good old freddy kruger?

I can't say i'll definitely be able to do this as I might have to go to china soon.. so I'm dropping in all the information I have incase anyone else would like to help straighten this out.

[Mazz vs The World]

Some of you guys are just flat out rude. He is simply stating his opinion maybe he does feel like this is factual. If you want to prove it's not then do that without insulting the guy, dang! I for one try not to come here much, mostly because I get sick of the bickering. I am highly skeptical of whatever Joshex is attempting to state but if he believes it then let him prove it. I'm not gonna waste time and try and ridicule him for whatever reason. I will however log in and take up for someone if I feel like they are being attacked. So stop already, he offered some information if you believe it you do if not you don't. Comment on that, but don't insult someone for trying to dig up something about this game cause many have given up period! Also another sidenote I feel like alot of people within this community feel like they always have to prove how smart they are and often at times use their ability to type abusively. Be careful with your words and stop bullying. In the words of Sweet Brown "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Response to bold: ...what??...

Examples take many forms...
Good examples: "You see that? That's how it should be done."
Bad examples: "You see that? Never, ever, ever, EVER do that."
Mediocre examples: "You see that? It's good enough, but not great."
Inexplicable, sanity-rending examples: "You see that? What is that I don't even..."

[JaguarX]

Examples take many forms...
Good examples: "You see that? That's how it should be done."
Bad examples: "You see that? Never, ever, ever, EVER do that."
Mediocre examples: "You see that? It's good enough, but not great."
Inexplicable, sanity-rending examples: "You see that? What is that I don't even..."

good point.
Everything and anything can be a lesson.

[Stone Daemon]

no, they gave me the legal address for Marvel, and not just a legal department but the department that had handled thier particular case.

Well...yeah. Of course they did. You asked for information about the case with Marvel, implying that you wanted to send them a subpoena. The case is no longer their problem, so yeah, they would have given you Marvel's address to send you along on your merry way.

And guys? Mazz is right. Whatever else you might think of his theory, he's still one of us. Let's play nice, huh?

[SerialBeggar]

Who
What
When
Where
How

Answer those as you get to them.

Tsk-tsk.

[MaidMercury]

If by that logic, why doesn't World of Warcarft get sued by Marvel? I'm sure there's a gadzillion Conan, Thor look-a-likes in that game.

Something doesn't jell with me about that theory...especially since CoH had the Generic'd Police clamping down any trademarks, even in AE.

Anyway, the retail store I work at , the best selling game right now is the new version of GTA.
Call of Duty, Halo, and Walking Dead...........No one ever talks about Marvel Heroes or DCUO.

[PSI-on]

More interestingly, the new Marvel one is free to play with some DLC, which I've noticed lately was reduced. Also they closed CoX in November but the Marvel game didn't come out til June or July of this year, can't imagine a reason to close so much earlier and as can be seen it hasn't made us hungry for their game.

If by that logic, why doesn't World of Warcarft get sued by Marvel? I'm sure there's a gadzillion Conan, Thor look-a-likes in that game.

Something doesn't jell with me about that theory...especially since CoH had the Generic'd Police clamping down any trademarks, even in AE.

Anyway, the retail store I work at , the best selling game right now is the new version of GTA.
Call of Duty, Halo, and Walking Dead...........No one ever talks about Marvel Heroes or DCUO.

[candidate]

I remember seeing this:

http://www.gamegirladvance.com/2005/02/city-of-copies-marvel-vs-nc-soft.html

[Taceus Jiwede]

I can't say I believe it but you could probably get a better result Joshex if you posted the reply.  Although emails are easily forged so people probably still will question it.

[Captain Electric]

Good detective work Josh, keep it up.
We're all counting on you.

[Kyriani]

Some of you guys are just flat out rude. He is simply stating his opinion maybe he does feel like this is factual. If you want to prove it's not then do that without insulting the guy, dang! I for one try not to come here much, mostly because I get sick of the bickering. I am highly skeptical of whatever Joshex is attempting to state but if he believes it then let him prove it. I'm not gonna waste time and try and ridicule him for whatever reason. I will however log in and take up for someone if I feel like they are being attacked. So stop already, he offered some information if you believe it you do if not you don't. Comment on that, but don't insult someone for trying to dig up something about this game cause many have given up period! Also another sidenote I feel like alot of people within this community feel like they always have to prove how smart they are and often at times use their ability to type abusively. Be careful with your words and stop bullying. In the words of Sweet Brown "Ain't nobody got time for that!"

First of all no one is "bullying" Joshex in this thread. Second of all he has a history of making inane posts that make wild leaps of sanity (I am loathe to use the word logic) all with the result of getting people's hopes up with false or totally misinterpreted information. He needs to be called out on it because otherwise people might think he's actually informed in some way which he is not.

The bottom line is, despite his claims to the contrary, Joshex has no special insight into the workings of NC Soft, he is not doing anything remotely relevant to bringing back city of heroes and he's likely laughing at any and every person who buys his logic devoid posts. I'm not being mean here. I am not bullying. I am stating the facts as I see them. Joshex has never posted anything relevant in regards to the return of COH as far as I have seen. It would be irresponsible to simply let him continue to post his fiction unchallenged and let others build false hope based on his posts. The only thing Joshex's posts tell us is that he has a grasp of coding... and its not as firm a grasp as other posters such as Codewalker.

And speaking of Codewalker... if you want to place hope in someone look to him. HE is actually doing work that can help bring us COH in some form. HIS posts show that he knows what he's talking about. HE doesn't make grandiose claims using leaps of sanity to try and portray a fiction and a bad fiction at that. If I seem a little terse its because I disike being called a bully about as much as I dislike someone deceiving people I care about. And I care about this community.

[Captain Electric]

Hi Kyriani. What's up? *Hugs* So yeah, Josh makes crazy posts. Everyone knows it. Josh knows it. He knows we know it. It's good, mutual entertainment. From what I've seen of Titan staff's replies, they're pretty much on the same page as most of us. Sorry you never got the memo, but you shouldn't be this serious about it. Don't mess up Josh's vibes, yo. Also, that's clever what you did there. You said a bunch of mean, Internet Gestapo things and then said you just stated facts as you see them. That's pretty cool. I've never seen that before ever on Internet forumz lolololol.

Mazz, what bickering are you talking about? There's a lot of pretty cordial conversation around here, and most of the arguments are polite (insofar as impassioned arguments can be polite, but you should really have a thick skin around forums anyway). Seriously these forums are pretty chill. Most of the high maintenance people have moved on, leaving the rest of us to relax and answer that age-old question, what happens after the end of the world?

[Kyriani]

Hi Kyriani. What's up? *Hugs* So yeah, Josh makes crazy posts. Everyone knows it. Josh knows it. He knows we know it. It's good, mutual entertainment. From what I've seen of Titan staff's replies, they're pretty much on the same page as most of us. Sorry you never got the memo, but you shouldn't be this serious about it. Don't mess up Josh's vibes, yo. Also, that's clever what you did there. You said a bunch of mean, Internet Gestapo things and then said you just stated facts as you see them. That's pretty cool. I've never seen that before ever on Internet forumz lolololol.

Mazz, what bickering are you talking about? There's a lot of pretty cordial conversation around here, and most of the arguments are polite (insofar as impassioned arguments can be polite, but you should really have a thick skin around forums anyway). Seriously these forums are pretty chill. Most of the high maintenance people have moved on, leaving the rest of us to relax and answer that age-old question, what happens after the end of the world?

I apologize if my post seems "filled with internet gestapo stuff". I just don't find misinformation "entertaining". I'll leave it to others to respond to Joshex in the future then if I take him "too seriously".

[Captain Electric]

I apologize if my post seems "filled with internet gestapo stuff". I just don't find misinformation "entertaining". I'll leave it to others to respond to Joshex in the future then if I take him "too seriously".

You know what, both of our posts are breaking forum rules. I loathe misinformation too, but calling people out isn't our job, and this is like a three-car pileup. So, apologies for calling you out instead of sending a PM or notifying the Internet police or something. Or just posting a picture.

Well people, you know what they say. If you can't set a good example, then at least be a horrible warning. *Stands proudly*