Author Topic: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?  (Read 32825 times)

Pengy

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2013, 05:24:44 PM »
Also, the base portals should have been the red Dr. Who phone booths.
Behind a series of security doors that would shut on your nose if you weren't careful.

dwturducken

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2013, 06:25:02 PM »
The Wentworth's remote access was a vet reward. One of the guys in my Friday night group got it about a month ahead of any of the rest of us, and he would mock the rest of us for having to go in person while he parked someplace out of the way and pulled it up. It was all in good fun, but, yeah, it was annoying. :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Thunder Glove

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2013, 07:27:28 PM »
Wow, this is an illuminating topic.  I thoroughly enjoyed the various tweaks to user-friendliness, including merging of the rail lines and the trainers-as-tailors.  (That goes double for Redside, where the ferries were ridiculous before the merging, and there were only two Facemakers total - and I could never remember where the second one was, so I wound up in Cap Au Diable every time I had a new costume idea).

Part of me did miss the immersion of having to actually go to Icon/The Facemaker, but it was far outweighed by just how convenient it was.  And I never, not even for a minute, missed the separate rail and ferry lines and all the running back and forth I had to do just to get to the zone I wanted to get to.

primeknight

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2013, 07:55:08 PM »
As someone who has recently started playing star trek online, and as someone that has little more than an hour max every few days to play games.  I've noticed how much of a time sink the game can be: I can spend a good 10 - 15 minutes just going back to the main Space Dock and sell stuff or <insert activity of choice>.  City of Heroes helped to rectify this over the years and I applaud all the steps they took to lessen travel times or help the player speed up their various activities. 

The example of making contacts double as tailors was brilliant, in that it allowed the player, from any level, to access one of the most wonderful aspects of the game quickly and easily from any part of the city.  I hope the Plan Z projects are going to make their games just as user friendly :)


Phaetan

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2013, 08:38:45 PM »
As someone who came aboard with Freedom, this is an entertaining and interesting read.
I'm glad that it didn't take two years to reach lvl 50, for example, because I didn't get that long before the game shut down.  Really, TUNNEL sees a little too easy and not well-integrated into the gmaeworld itself, but otherwise I was very happy for the user-friendly adaptations.  And don't forget that while any trainer could adjust a costume, for the big changes, you still needed to see a specialist.

dwturducken

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2013, 09:00:56 PM »
I thought STO had a Transwarp feature that allowed you to zip instantly back to Earth. You still had to go the long way back, but it still would save time.

(I haven't played STO in some time, but I will be going back to it in a couple of weeks. Must try out the new content!)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Aggelakis

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2013, 11:11:57 PM »
I thought STO had a Transwarp feature that allowed you to zip instantly back to Earth. You still had to go the long way back, but it still would save time.

(I haven't played STO in some time, but I will be going back to it in a couple of weeks. Must try out the new content!)
Transwarp has a 15 minute -spacetime- cooldown (meaning it only counts down while you are logged in, in space). Additionally, Transwarp is only accessible from Sector space (so not just puttering around space within a sector, but the meta-game 'warp speed space').
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doc7924

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 12:24:27 AM »
As someone who came aboard with Freedom, this is an entertaining and interesting read.
I'm glad that it didn't take two years to reach lvl 50, for example, because I didn't get that long before the game shut down.  Really, TUNNEL sees a little too easy and not well-integrated into the gmaeworld itself, but otherwise I was very happy for the user-friendly adaptations.  And don't forget that while any trainer could adjust a costume, for the big changes, you still needed to see a specialist.

I can understand that coming late into the game.

But I always felt that newer players after AE and the easy leveling really had no idea how hard it was to get a 50 seeing as a lot of them got a 50 in about 6 hours.

Also lets forget there was no debt cap early on. Many toons took a long time to get to 50 simply because working off debt was huge. After they put the cap and half debt in missions and patrol xp - debt became a joke.


Rust

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2013, 01:08:53 AM »
In regards to the original post: I don't think the game was too user friendly at the point of shut down. City of Heroes had evolved to keep pace with the needs and demands of the players. Let's face it - City was a big place. And it when it was developed was a far different time, development wise. City of Heroes was a bit anachronistic in that regard - the game design and level progression (that progression that was in the game at the start, not those story arcs added later) is very much a product of its time. While the final months of the game saw a lot of old content sidestepped for more "punch".

What I adored about the City was it never invalidated older content - it just made new content available. But the old methods were still just as viable. When Galaxy City collapsed, I cannot tell you how thankful I was that was the case. The Hollows became an escape rather then a requirement.

I think the game put a lot more emphasis on the more "User Friendly" aspects - the Travel Power at Level 6 and the modern content - but unlike other MMOs I could mention (World of WarCraft, specifically) the City never negated content. As a player with no interest in the Incarnate Trials (My main was a Batman-esque character - a vigilante. It made zero sense to make him some kind of avatar of divine might), when my altaholism subsided enough to let me play my main I was extremely grateful the Shadow Shard was still available. It was a ghost town, but it was still available.
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Phaetan

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 02:02:11 AM »
I can understand that coming late into the game.

But I always felt that newer players after AE and the easy leveling really had no idea how hard it was to get a 50 seeing as a lot of them got a 50 in about 6 hours.

Also lets forget there was no debt cap early on. Many toons took a long time to get to 50 simply because working off debt was huge. After they put the cap and half debt in missions and patrol xp - debt became a joke.
Well, to each their own.  Maybe things were just different in Pinnacle, but there were not many AE babies there and almost all of those were actually alts on accounts with 5+ year vet badges...

My first 50, my namesake here, was an elec/devices blaster.  She rarely teamed, and tried AE twice before Incarnate levels and fled in terror after accidentally entering two Fire Farms while looking for, you know, story.  One of my happiest moments was when I managed to finally take down Frostfire with her solo.  Then I found out that I probably shouldn't have been able to pull that off (this was before I had subbed, so only small insps, no IOs or funky temp powers.)  She spent a fair amount of time at the debt cap and more than once I was told that she was worthless and I should delete the character by the aforementioned "old guard" AE farmers.  You can probably guess how well that went over, and I did feel the sting of debt, but just used it as a gauge of how much I needed to learn to play better.

Thankfully the vast majority of veteran players on Pinn were good people who didn't hold my newness against me and happily explained mechanics to me when I was confused.  They also let me stubbornly work my way through things when I didn't want advice, and generally just treated me as another regular almost immediately.  Hell, they happily let me in teams and leagues despite ping times that rarely dipped below 700 and slow zoning, thanks to the satellite internet.

Long story short, I suppose, is that for myself and the friends I brought into the game, we didn't see the things you seem to feel all new players did.  I guess we were just very lucky in our badge and booze-happy home.  My apologies for the long ramble and enjoy your reminiscing.

Lucretia MacEvil

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2013, 03:39:49 AM »
Besides, it's not like they put Null's powers in all the trainers

IMO, they really should have.  I would sometimes wish to change those settings temporarily (and check up on my Praetorian AV kill list) and going to and from Pocket D to do so was a hassle.

Twi

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2013, 05:03:52 AM »
This game has gone to the americans and jerk hackers with all this ease of access.
I am a defender and so can you.

Kistulot

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2013, 05:17:36 AM »
Icon has terrible lighting. having it be the only tailor is pretty awful when the second you step outside your costume looks worse.

Having two trainlines only made things take longer. The city gave you plenty of reasons to fly around. Nothing stopped you from artificially continuing to play the same way. That is true for almost everything here.

Just... this hurts me, really. The game was being made better, enhanced to be more fun, cutting out the crap that was old and not enjoyable to make the game a more fun experience. Wanting it to go back to before that just makes me wonder why not just play CO, it hasn't received any updated to make it a more fun game in years and that's going great.

The newer content had less kill alls, too...

Frankly, I'm sorry, but complaining the game was made "easier" and "more accessible" when the actual gameplay was just as hard, and the accessibility made it so more people were able to have fun doing more things screams of "back in my day... up hill both ways... young whipper snappers..."

No one forced anyone to take advantage of the AE for quicker leveling, or ITFs for that matter. No one forced people to use Miss Liberty to fix their costume instead of creating a brand new character because of no icon, or having to run all the way over there to tweak what could be done in two seconds. You're all free to your opinions obviously, and I'm only trying to express my own to boot, but with the obvious, glaring exception of PvP which was broken and then ignored... this thread just reminds me of reasons I avoided the official forums :(
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JaguarX

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2013, 06:51:25 AM »
This PvP Online strip (from partway through a series of strips Scott Kurtz did about City of Heroes -- the sequence begins here if you've never read them).
lol. never heard of these guys or knew of their existance until now but their comic strips are pretty, well very very accurate about COH, in a good way, especially in the early days. People take their role play seriously.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 05:10:25 PM by JaguarX »

JaguarX

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2013, 06:53:08 AM »
I can understand that coming late into the game.

But I always felt that newer players after AE and the easy leveling really had no idea how hard it was to get a 50 seeing as a lot of them got a 50 in about 6 hours.

Also lets forget there was no debt cap early on. Many toons took a long time to get to 50 simply because working off debt was huge. After they put the cap and half debt in missions and patrol xp - debt became a joke.

yep and it made it indiretly harder to find a team for some stuff because people was too busy getting as many 1-50s in AE as fast as they or focus on farming once they do hit 50 if not before.

doc7924

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 02:12:54 PM »
yep and it made it indiretly harder to find a team for some stuff because people was too busy getting as many 1-50s in AE as fast as they or focus on farming once they do hit 50 if not before.

That was a big peeve of mine. They put a lot of work into the game creating mission arcs, Task Forces, backstories for the villians,  etc.

Most of the big enjoyment for me was following the 'story' of Paragon City, not just "OMGZZZZZZZZZZZ I NEEDZ TEH 50!"

I felt that a good number of people missed out on the game by basically camping their ass in AE and making 50's all day long.


adarict

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 05:29:03 PM »
I don't think I would say it was TOO user friendly near the end.  And I think a lot of the reactions depend on how long you had been playing.  I started right before I3.  I have a TON of fond memories of trying to get to Steel Canyon Icon without getting pummeled.  I took it as a challenge, and made it into a minigame.  Same with the train lines not being connected.  After a while though, I had created so many alts that all I really wanted was a quick way to accomplish the things I wanted to do.  Not the levelling up part.  I was fine with how long it took, even in the obnoxiously slow level ranges.

The problem was, with the new people.  OK, poor wording choice.  What I mean is, new people never had to deal with any of those things.  For them, these benefits simply made everything easier for them, and was normal.  There are always going to be those who want everything now, without having to do any real work for them, but at least on Guardian, those people seemed to be in the minority.  The changes making things easier just made the game that much easier to enjoy, for newbies as well as old timers.  For some of the old timers, it engenders feelings of "When I was a kid, we walked to school, uphill!  Both ways!"

I don't think they made the game too easy.  I think they made it more enjoyable for more people.  i do sometimes feel a bit sad that newer people didn't get to have some of the fun the earlier players had.  How many stories have we all read about hovering all the way across the Hollows, or the long trips back from the hospital after getting smacked down yards away from your mission entrance?

Aggelakis

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 05:35:07 PM »
I probably would have stopped playing if they hadn't started "dumbing it down" (which I honestly don't think they started doing until after Freedom - a couple of their most recent changes seemed to be straight out of 'casual gaming', TUNNEL e.g.)

I have no interest in the run around/fiddling part. I want to get to the dings and the story. Making it easier for that to happen means I'm way more likely to stick around.

An example is Neverwinter. You can get real XP from crafting, and since you can craft from a smartphone, I can progress even when I'm at work. I have probably gotten two or three full levels worth of XP from all the crafting pancake I've done. You also get a big pile of XP from "invocation" which you can do once an hour (though only the first three or four invocations a day grant XP). With all this extra XP, I am repeatedly at the top end of my questing area's level range, which means I can enjoy the STORY without fearing for my LIFE. Granted, I do die occasionally but that's usually because I'm being cocky. :p

I play games to enjoy myself. I don't play games to challenge myself unless *I* put those challenges on *myself*. Flashbacks with challenge modes were perfect examples.
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AltaholicX

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 11:31:30 PM »
I'm enough of an old curmudgeon to think that it might have been a good idea to keep the more convenient tailor/hospital/travel/AE experience assets locked until you at least had one character at level 30 or possibly higher. Half the fun with you first toon was trying to get across the Hollows or Steel Canyon without getting killed.

saipaman

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Re: Do you think the game got TOO user friendly at the end?
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 11:36:15 PM »
This kind of was what bothered me the most about the merger. Real cities have multiple lines. Maybe as a narrative device, it's OK, and they didn't set up the original tram system so that you had to get on the train that opened when your desired zone was on the scrolling sign above the doors, but the merger took away from the feeling, like EK was saying, of it being a world. More insulting was the instantaneous 'port from one end of a zone to another, like from the former Yellow Line terminal to the former Green Line terminal in Steel or Skyway to "shortcut" traveling all the way across the zone to your destination. I used it, sure, but it annoyed the hell out of me, all the same.

Myself, I would have preferred something more realistic (which is what I think you wanted).  Perhaps double decked stations in which you would exit from the tram, change levels and board a short line to the other station in the zone.  Come out there and then switch back to the mainline.