Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)

[FatherXmas]

Came from the Midnight 2D showing.

Warner Brothers should immediately create a DC movie division and pay SynCopy whatever they want to be a production consultant.  The movie is excellent.  Don't care what the fanboys may think.  I love how they dealt with the Lois situation.  The fights were excellent but still gritty.  The revamped origin works.

Sure, people will compare it to the 2nd Reeves film because of Zod.  He is a product of what he is and unfortunately that makes him evil in our morality.

And I can see the 2nd movie now.  And yes, I'm betting Luthor as the antagonist but as the industrialist, someone who honestly considers Superman as a threat to mankind.  He'll be the major force behind rebuilding Metropolis (which gets significantly crushed with massive losses of life, 10s of thousands if not more).

Like I said, the back story works.  It jumps back and forth between Clark "finding" himself, doing the whole David Banner/Hulk wandering thing, and episodes about him growing up.

Russell Crow was great as Jor-El.  Keven Costner was a great Pa Kent.  Amy Adams was a great Lois Lane and lastly Henry Cavill is the best Superman ever, including Christopher Reeves.  Now maybe that's because his Superman/Clark is NOT corny at all and he doesn't strike me as someone who would skip off planet and find a son when he gets back.

Go see.  Must see.  This IS the Superman fans have always wanted to see.  Yes they strayed from decades of dogma but they made it work.

Previews included RIPD, 2nd Hobbit film and Catching Fire.

[Tenzhi]

The Superman I want to see has red trunks.  That solid blue costume sucks in the comics, and desaturating and over-texturing it for Extra Gritty Realism (TM) doesn't help.  But I'm hoping the rest of the movie will be good enough that I'll be able to say "If only they'd got the costume right, it would've been great!" afterwards.

[Magus Prime]

This is the Superman I've been waiting to see!

*Spoilers*

It did take it's share of liberties with the tale but altogether a well-built story from beginning to end.  The only thing I'm not clear on is how many people know who he is.  It looked like the secret was pretty easy to unravel. 

I've never liked how Pa Kent keeps getting killed in the interest of giving Clark a source for angst but the death scene was so powerful.  It was concise and ostensibly pivotal. 

The costume didn't detract like I thought it would.  I hope at some point they decide to brighten the hue in a sequel.  I thought Henry Cavill's slightly unkempt hair would bother me but he was definitely Supes.

I was worried Snyder would make the same mistake other directors make.  With the bar being raised so high by the likes of Iron Man and The Incredibles, every director aspiring to make a superhero movie needs to ask themselves, "Can I make a movie that even approaches this level of storytelling?"  (This goes out to you Misters Bay, Shyamalan, Johnston, and Singer.)  Zack Snyder does this with flying colors.  Pun intended! 

[Arnabas]

I saw one review that commented "if you think organic webshooters started a massive forum outcry, you ain't seen nothing yet", which has really got me curious and concerned.

Anyhow, will see it tomorrow and be back with my thoughts.

[Atlantea]

Just got back from seeing it.

Yeah - they tweaked his origin some. And the costume. But they kept the essence true. And they REALLY emphasized how difficult is was for him to come to terms with his powers. Especially his enhanced senses. This becomes very important when he's fighting Zod and the other Kryptonians later in the film. (What? Not like that's a huge spoiler - it's been in all the trailers.)

And about that conflict -

Remember the "World Made of Cardboard" scene from the last episode of Justice League Unlimited? Remember earlier in the same series the fight between Superman and Captain Marvel?

The entire second half of the movie is that.

And. IT. IS. AWESOME.

For the very first time in any Superman movie, I think you REALLY get the visceral sense of what beings like that could do. The impacts, the collateral damage, the sheer SPEED at which they can react and move!

Just... damn.

Go see it. Highly recommended.

[FatherXmas]

It did take it's share of liberties with the tale but altogether a well-built story from beginning to end.  The only thing I'm not clear on is how many people know who he is.  It looked like the secret was pretty easy to unravel.

Well Pete Ross, IHOP manager both knows him, remembers what he did with the bus AND has seen him in the suit.  In canon (at least one of them, not talking Smallville) Lana figured it out.  I'm also not sure if the Priest/Minister Clark confided in knows who he is.  He could have stopped in any church in a 100 mile radius. 

The military would of course wonder why the Kryptonians went to Smallville.  On the other hand they know they have nothing to defeat him, that they are willing to try, so it's best NOT to do anything to tick him off.  Now whether they share that info with politicians is another thing.  Most of those who may have been able to guess went down with the plane. 

Lois figured it out by using her investigating journalist skills and charm to backtrack Clark's travels.  And now that he's saved the world, I would say most people who put 2 and 2 together, that the stranger who blew through town is Superman, will zip it around other journalists, military and FBI types.

Of course Batman would know.

I really like the fact that Lois knows before he starts work at the Daily Planet.  She can help him maintain his cover.  Cover for him.

I'm going to guess that Clark was able to salvage any remaining functioning tech from the downed scout ship and the world builder so humans wouldn't find anything that could become dangerous in the wrong hands and that they are now located "where he hangs his cape".

[Todogut]

Saw the midnight screening in 3-D. (Don't bother paying for 3-D, it didn't add much to the experience. See it in 2-D.)

Did not like it. I don't think it's meant to be liked nor enjoyed. It seems to be intended to make a point like an intellectual exercise.

I'm tired of seeing movies about American superheroes made by British filmmakers who seem to want to adapt superhero mythos for social commentary on present concerns including post 9/11 terrorism. One reviewer commented, they gave Superman the Dark Knight treatment. Indeed. (Currently 58% negative reviews among critics on rottentomatoes.com.)

Problem is, Superman is very different from Batman. Jules Feiffer, in The Great Comic Book Superheroes, essayed about how kids reading comic books fell into two camps: those who saw the world as a big, scary place gravitated toward Batman, while those who were happier and more secure liked Superman. That's because Batman's imagery is dark, scary, and vengeful, while Superman's world is bright, sunlit, altruistic, and optimistic.

I was hoping Christopher Nolan and his crew would go in this traditional direction; but, no. Instead, they continued along their Dark Knight path. And why not? It's made a lot of money.

Great visual spectacle. We knew Zack Snyder would deliver.

Henry Cavill, Amy Adams, Michael Shannon, and the rest of the cast were appealing. (Personally, I could have done with less Jor-El as action hero and without Perry White wearing an earring. Give me Richard Donner's Superman.) Still, as one reviewer commented, not much fun, humor, romance, nor charm.

Were we supposed to know who the Daily Planet staffers were that accompanied Perry White? One was a middle-aged, bald white guy who hit on Lois Lane and the other was a brunette young woman. From reading posts on comicbookmovie.com, I gathered she was (possibly) a revisionist, female version of Jimmy Olsen. But, as a negative review pointed out, the characters in the movie are so underdeveloped, why should we care about any of them?

Most comic book fans lauded the Nolan Batman movies. I fell asleep during each of them. (The Joker was the best part.) I feel they are very much over-rated.

Sorry to see Superman get painted with the same brooding, angsty colors. However, I expect this version will be very successful.

[FatherXmas]

But that's Nolanverse, trying to but a realistic spin on DC superheroes.

How would mankind, the US react to a being from another planet, who looks like us, who is invulnerable to our weapons, who is faster, stronger and can fly including out of our atmosphere?  Pa Kent was right, people would fear him.  And fear makes the masses do stupid things.  Fear makes governments do stupid things.  The way the usual trope goes when facing a superior "human" is to control them or kill them.

There are a lot of people who will blame him for the deaths due to the world engine and the fights with Zod and his 2nd in command.  Way to many people died.  Those who weren't near the fighting may accept him for now but he's going to have to build up a lot of street cred to make that acceptance permanent.

As for Perry and the Daily Planet, yes, they are seriously underused but were necessary to provide the initial background for Lois and at the end Clark's new place of employment.  Personally I thought Perry was an idiot to not evacuate the building as soon as the first pulse brought down buildings instead of waiting until the destruction was a block or two away.  I guess they decided they needed known figures in peril to add suspense to the Superman/World Engine fight.  But since Perry White figures prominently in the mythos of course you knew he wouldn't die.

Didn't even notice the earring.

Jenny/Jimmy, never thought of it that way, I just thought she was there as a work friend.  I can't think of a Lois Lane who had female friends, heck any friends.

As for Lois falling head over heals with Clark, I like the slow pace.  Always annoyed me that Lois falls so quickly for him.

As for Rotten Tomatoes/Metacritic, critics be damned, user ratings are through the roof.  I think it's going to do very well this weekend.  Of the top 12 super hero films opening weekends, only Iron Man and Spider-man weren't sequels and when compared to just them, Man of Steel will do very well.  Certainly a LOT better than Superman Returns.

[houtex]

Yay, Man of Steel Thread! 

I have four problems with the movie.  Having said that, right off, I want to reiterate what Father said right off: THIS is the Superman movie we've been looking for since '78.  Loved it, raised my hands and clapped when the credits rolled and shouted "BEAUTIFUL!" in a room full of patrons.

Awesome stuff.  They did a great job, overall.

However, as I said, four issues, and I just have to get them out.  Sorry.

1) The tornado scene.  Pretty dumb.  You DO NOT tell Clark to 'get your mother to the overpass.'  You protest and say "us or the dog, Clark!" and Clark goes to save the dog anyway in defiance... gets back, dog saved... not having done anything spectacular or revealing... and everyone survives the experience... until Jonathon keels over anyway due to the stress.  Heart attack, burst blood vessel in the brain... or maybe they're walking out and an unseen piece of something catches him from above... whatever.  And whatever it is keeps him alive long enough for him, and Martha, to ensure Clark doesn't do something 'dumb' like superspeed him to a hospital, whereupon the same point is made... You can't save us all, and you can't yet reveal yourself.

2) Atmospheric effects upon Kal-El cause him to be nonsuperman?  Uh... ok, sure.  Means that he can be suffocated.  And therefore, likely, deprived of food too.  This is a vulnerability that I'm not sure has been previously dealt with.  Oh, and the yellow sun issue, sure, but he has no reserves to speak of or something.  Very odd that.  Also, just put him in a lead lined vault in the middle of a mountain... he's gonna die pretty quick, I'd imagine.  Suffocation, and also non-super due to yellow sun depravation.  And forget all those "going to other planets" things, that just ain't gonna happen.  He's just meat at that point, ready to be slaughtered.

3 and 4 are in the same scene...

3) "On your right side, you see the ever inching closer to you heat vision from General Zod.  My it's hot, isn't it?  And noisy too!  Goodness me, it DOES seem rather dangerous, yes?  Better not let it touch you!  Now, if you'll notice, to your left side, plenty of empty space with which us four 'victims' can escape.  And we're walking... and we're walking..."  Seriously, there was THAT MUCH TIME, as well as space.  So either they were just absolutely the dumbest people on the Earth and deserved to be baconized, or Zod was just playing around with Kal, making a gigantic point of "I will NEVER stop toying with them, torturing them, and you, until you KILL ME."   Meaning that a twitch of his eyes, or his head, and they're toast.  I have to believe that was the case.  Still, seriously.  Just... GO TO YOUR LEFT, people!

3a) So they can only be FIRIN' MAH LAZORS! straight out of their eyes, direct linear aim, regardless of where they're looking?  No, wait, Clark did a cauterizing heat thing on Lois, so that's not true.  So... how exactly did Clark keep Zod from offin' those people?  Zod's eyes were NOT aimed out his right corners of his eyelids.  He *MUST* have been toying then.  Forcing the point.

4) Which leads me to:  Zod... dies?!  Really?  So... that's all there is to it?  Twist of the head and off switch?!  No less than 5 people saw this directly.  Superman just made himself vulnerable to brute force.  I have severe difficulty in believing that Lex or whomever can't exploit that.  Certainly Doomsday and Darkseid could.  You can shoot them with missiles, big ass bullets, but all that you really need to do is get him to crane his head in just the right way, then have a gigantic shove on top of that... no more Supes. 

---

Not that I'm a critic or anything...

Now, what I *don't* have a problem with is why Kal had to make the choice, and do it right then.  It obviously affected him... he just offed the LAST OF HIS KIND, having already decided that his kind were not worth more than the current population of Earth... he is now truly singular.  PLUS he just did something he had been trained, in effect, by both of his fathers... be better than the rest.  Having said that, the situation where the echo of Jor-El makes the decision that these last few dozen Kryptonians must be stopped at all cost, including their being undone... well, he goes along with that.  A black hole is ok.  Eternal suffering, in effect, that's fine.  He'd already decided that killing is ok, with that decision to go along with Dad's idea.

But the taking of Zod with his own bare hands... that's different.  Sort of the difference between a general ordering a bomb drop and a cop having to right then decide that he/she must shoot someone dead.  The second is much more traumatic to the person making that decision.  You see that in his after-reaction.  But he MUST come to grips with it... and that right then.  And Lois was there for him.  And later, his Earth Mom.  And all his life experiences.  Also, he's NOT us.  But we like to think he is.  Silly humans.  He will learn, and likely NOT do it again, because once is enough, thanks.
 
---
 
Whew.  All that is now outta my system.  Heh.
 
I want to yet one more time say: FANTASTIC movie.  Liked it a lot.  There are flaws, but that's true of every movie.  Find me one that doesn't have them. 
 
Overall though?  This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxjlNnAlBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxjlNnAlBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxjlNnAlBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxjlNnAlBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxjlNnAlBQ
http://www.yout... well, ok, you get the idea, I'm sure. 
 
/Note: Don't click that last... I don't *think* it goes anywhere... but hey, internet's a weird place.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Saw it today.

I liked it. My impression of the Phantom Zone plan was that the Kryptonians would wind up in the Phantom Zone not dead.

The ending with Zod was different, but I thought it worked well given the scenario that Kal-El was presented with.

[Magus Prime]

I think for a lot of folks that didn't like the movie, their biggest complaint was it wasn't the campy Superman that's been the dominant caricature for decades.  I can agree that it could have benefited if Goyer and Snyder seized a couple more comedic opportunities but all in all, this tale needed to be more accessible by modern audiences.  I found it more feasible that an alien would be conflicted about going public.  Donner's Superman just jumped on the scene and everyone seemed to be on board. 

Thanks to writers like Alan Moore, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, and Mark Waid, we got to know a Superman whose world wasn't always happily ever after and I needed to see this version of Supes outside of print and fully realized on screen.  This movie was the proper treatment and I'm relieved someone finally got it right.

[Tenzhi]

IMO, Superman should be a character of largely-unconflicted Good.  No worrying about whether people will think he's a freak because of his powers.  He's not Super-X-Man, The Last Emo of Krypton, he's Superman the <expletive> Man of Steel - he's got powers, he saves people, he wears primary colours, and the world can deal with it because Invulnerability.

And I have trouble imagining a non-alternate-reality scenario where Superman directly kills someone outright that I'd not be disgruntled about.

[Kaos Arcanna]

I think for a lot of folks that didn't like the movie, their biggest complaint was it wasn't the campy Superman that's been the dominant caricature for decades.  I can agree that it could have benefited if Goyer and Snyder seized a couple more comedic opportunities but all in all, this tale needed to be more accessible by modern audiences.  I found it more feasible that an alien would be conflicted about going public.  Donner's Superman just jumped on the scene and everyone seemed to be on board. 

Thanks to writers like Alan Moore, John Byrne, Dan Jurgens, and Mark Waid, we got to know a Superman whose world wasn't always happily ever after and I needed to see this version of Supes outside of print and fully realized on screen.  This movie was the proper treatment and I'm relieved someone finally got it right.

In the Silver Age Superboy stories there were a number of stories that showed that Clark didn't have an easy time of it growing up. Because he had to worry about protecting his secret identity, Clark didn't have any really close friends and let himself be a target for all manner of bullies ... even kids much younger than he was.

In fact, Pete Ross was introduced in a story that played off Clark's loneliness. Pete was a popular, talented, athletiic, good looking kid-- and he was NICE and went out of his way to befriend Clark. In fact, he was so popular that he was brought back after what was going to be a one-off appearance and even learned Superboy's secret-- and didn't tell him he knew until he and Clark were adults.

(Bit of a Silver Age Pete Ross fan here since every subsequent appearance has made him into a loser.)

Just wanted to point that out to show that Wad et al didn't invent "Clark Kent had an unhappy childhood" trope.

That being said, I do think that Clark himself didn't come across as being excessiively dark ... especially at the end. Granted, I was surprised that he did kill Zod, but at least it was shown as something he found personally horrifying to do.

[Magus Prime]

IMO, Superman should be a character of largely-unconflicted Good.  No worrying about whether people will think he's a freak because of his powers.  He's not Super-X-Man, The Last Emo of Krypton, he's Superman the <expletive> Man of Steel - he's got powers, he saves people, he wears primary colours, and the world can deal with it because Invulnerability.

And I have trouble imagining a non-alternate-reality scenario where Superman directly kills someone outright that I'd not be disgruntled about.

Not so much that he has powers but that he's an alien.  That was the point they were trying to drive home.  Were the people ready for the answer to "Are we alone in the universe?"  This is a much more profound revelation than finding out my next door neighbor has wings or giant feet, super agility, and unparalleled intelligence.  And despite being able to overpower anyone who questioned his right to be here, his humility doesn't let him.  In fact, he realizes he's the visitor and he chooses to try to earn their trust.

As for killing Zod, part of me agrees that it seemed out of character since I'm accustomed to a Superman who would never resort to ending the life of another.  On the other hand, in the comics he brought himself to execute Zod and Co. so the idea isn't all too foreign.  I'm willing to let them run with it and see where it goes.

[Zombie Man]

I liked it. I like the update into more realism... as much as *Superman* can be 'real.'

E.g., the suit. The original comic suit was a child of Victorian men's beach ware and work out gear that had to show modesty from ankle to wrist to neck. It then became the standard suit of strong men and wrestlers. So, the whole idea that a superhero would wear such an antiquated costume is absurd. We would think it absurd if they dressed in Roman togas for no good reason. And so, Man of Steel's 'costume' is the base of an armored suit. Makes sense. Armored suits don't wear trunks on the outside. Makes sense. Perfectly fine with me. The fact we accept trunks and spandex for battle in the superhero genre is a rather odd and absurd convention... but we live with it to look at the hot bodies. We got bare chested Clark as fan service, thank you very much. Now put on a real armored suit and not crazy spandex.

The same with killing Zod in the end. The very original Superman would do that. The golden age standards-and-decency age Superman aimed at children wouldn't. Makes sense. But the modern updated one was faced with a genocidal, genetics-bred killer who claimed he had nothing to live for and was going to take everyone with him. Just like 'suicide by police' when someone who want to die pulls a gun on a bunch of police officers, Zod was begging to be killed, and made sure it happened.

It's kind of Dr. Whovian in a way: A complete rejection of your own people when you realize they are genocidal maniacs and the only way to stop them is destroying them.

[Golden Girl]

As a superhero movie, it was pretty good - as a Superman movie, it wasn't so good.

[houtex]

Yeah.  Same was said about Batman Begins by a lot of people/critics.  And they're beating up on this movie just the same... "It sucks!  Here's how!"

Don't know if it's a valid argument anymore.  It's a franchisable movie now... or again, whichever.  That's the main point... will people buy the sequel or not now?  I am betting yes on that.

Also, I disagree.  As a Superman movie, it was good, just different.  Don't really know why you'd say it wasn't a good one.  It had the same elements, differently done, that makes him Superman by the end of the movie, by and large.

However, there was a LOT of effort to NOT call Kal-El 'Superman'.  Lois almost said it, and then he was classified as such by the military.  Mostly he was 'Kal' or 'Clark', but 'Superman' the word was only mentioned twice, iirc, in the movie at all.  It'll be interesting to see if they keep trying to not make that a word or not in the next movie.

Which I think is the point... they *weren't* trying to make a Superman movie in the first place.  They were making a Kal-El/Clark Kent movie.  Spin is everything.

[Tenzhi]

Armour generally has a separate section covering the groin and butt.  It need not necessarily be trunks, but it needs to be red. 

[Golden Girl]

As a Superman movie, it was good, just different.  Don't really know why you'd say it wasn't a good one.

Because it lacked soul - there wasn't really a spark there - it was pretty entertaining and pretty well made, but lacked any real magic.

[Arnabas]

OK, I haven't seen it yet, but I want to comment on a few things regardless.

What some people call "antiquated" I call "classic". I can live with the new costume, but would have preferred the original. I don't need change for change's sake. I remember many of us bitching about the costume in Superman Returns, but I would take that over this one. If they really had to remove the briefs, they should have made the belt more visible. The costume benefits from having a visual break at that level. And explaining it as a Krytonian outfit is fine, but how are they going to explain it changing for every movie? You know they need to alter it to sell toys.

As for killing Zod... I predicted that even before they started filming. The modern view of superheroes is that they have to kill the bad guys to be realistic. This is why I LOVED Captain America saying "I don't want to kill anybody" when asked if he wanted to go kill Nazis. I have often said things like "I would kill anyone who hurts my family" and I mean that. But I am not Superman. I am not a superhero. Once upon a time, heroes could be looked up to as personifications of ideals to emulate. Now, they are made to reflect the lowest common denominator. Many will say "it's more realistic", but when did we decide it was better to celebrate our weaknesses than create ideals to strive for? Even Spiderman-- who is about as decent and moral as anyone in any comic universe-- became a murderer in Raimi's first film. He LET Uncle Ben's killer fall to his death, making no move to save him and showing no remorse afterwards. The Peter Parker I grew up with would never do that.

And really, do we need to make it super realistic? I usually hear people coming out of movies saying "wow that was cool" or "exciting" or maybe "fun". I don't thin I ever heard anyone rave "oh my god, that's sooooo realistic!" Are we going to see people in a religious frenzy over him? Are we going to see other countries panicking over America's new "weapon" and launching some sort of preemptive strike? Are we going to see thousands of civilians pooling their efforts to sue Superman for the deaths of their loved ones and loss of property? No? Then I guess they're not REALLY going for realism.

I have to say that I generally prefer the Marvel Movie Universe. At least they don't seem ashamed of the source material.