Author Topic: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)  (Read 45209 times)

Nos482

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2013, 09:50:00 PM »
I just got back from the cinema and have to say:
Best. Superman movie. Ever.
I'm bad and that's good.
I'll never be good and that's not bad.
There's no one I'd rather be than me.

...unless I could be Batman, of course. Everybody wants to be Batman.

Lightslinger

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2013, 09:50:58 PM »
Get better writers.  Ones that don't write me into a corner that they can't write me out of withou turning me into something I'm not.

Something you don't think he is. Superman has killed in the comics, in the past movies and now in Man of Steel. It was not a case of bad writing that made him do it. Whether you like the decision or not, the writers specifically wanted it to happen. This movie was pretty much Superman Begins, here we see the horrible situation that made Superman take his no killing stance. For me personally, that's a lot more powerful than "He's just like that".

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2013, 09:55:17 PM »
Something you don't think he is. Superman has killed in the comics, in the past movies and now in Man of Steel. It was not a case of bad writing that made him do it. Whether you like the decision or not, the writers specifically wanted it to happen. This movie was pretty much Superman Begins, here we see the horrible situation that made Superman take his no killing stance. For me personally, that's a lot more powerful than "He's just like that".

When he first appeared, Superman killed fairly often. Gradually, like Batman, he developed a code against killing.

FatherXmas

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2013, 05:51:46 AM »
There was a couple of lines I wanted to shout out during the movie.

First was when Superman surrenders himself and everyone was training their weapons on him.  All I could think of was the line from the Doctor Who episode "A Good Man Goes to War" where he says "Please, point a gun at me if it helps you relax.  You're only human. "

Second was in the Zod fight when Zod took hold of Superman's cape and swung him around, all I could think of was the "NO CAPES!" line from The Incredibles.

As for "the Superman we know wouldn't have killed Zod and would have prevented any collateral loss of life during the fight with him",  remember he's new at this.  Never faced anyone or anything that taxed his abilities and never fought in a crowded area before.  This is rookie Superman, new to the whole saving the world thing.  And more people would be killed if he lost again Zod so he couldn't give Zod an opening such as stopping that gas tanker from exploding into that parking structure where moments earlier we see people watching the fight.  Superman loses, everyone loses.  The only thing going through his mind was stopping Zod.  Period, end of story.  It's the trolley problem just on a much bigger scale.

And Zod wouldn't be willing to move the fight to a safer local because threatening humans lives gave Zod an edge.  If he one he would spend the rest of his days gladly killing off each and every human personally just to pass the time. 

Sore points

Clark, when the bad guy is suffering sensory overload like you intended him to get, DON'T tell him how you learned to overcome it!  Sure Zod might have been able to figure it out on his own but it would have bought you more time.

Jor-El taught Lois that the big secret was turn on the phantom drive on the baby carrage and chuck it at the Zod's ship.  Hope she took notes on such a complex and nuanced plan.

Jor-El designed Zod's ship/former prison yet the best he could do once uploaded was to change the atmospherics and open and close doors.  Couldn't say jump the ship deep into Jupiter's atmosphere or say into the Sun.  Nope just parlor tricks and pranks.

How many times reporters and the Weather Channel have to tell people don't take shelter from a tornado under an overpass before people listen?

And if you see a giant space ship descending over your city, you leave, NOW!  Not when it starts the thumper beam and not after you realize the radius of the thumper beam is increasing.  And you certainly don't ever run toward the giant space ship!  What, nobody remembers ID4?  At least one of the Daily Planet trio knew to run laterally from the falling building.

Other Points

According to the tombstone and assuming the movie is set in 2013, Clark was 17 when Jonathan was killed.

Only let the alien kiss you after the third time he saves your life, it's a rule.  She's going to have to get into some more peril if she wants him to get to 2nd base.

So we have a Lexcorp building and a Wayne Corp satellite.  Well it's something at least.

Edit: Edited for Houtex
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 07:20:54 AM by FatherXmas »
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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2013, 01:54:45 AM »
Loved this movie!  Always been a big superman fan and this movie really tried to capture what I think is so great about superman.  They showed him finding self and making him into the man that could change the world.  Superman could walk in the white house and rip the president in half, he could be judge, jury, and executioner and no one could stop him.  Yet he doesn't.  He uses his untold powers for good, even though the world wouldn't do the same for him.  He choices not to kill unless he has too, he choices to try and use reason over brawn, he choices to protect humanity instead of try and rule them. That is why I love superman.  His costume and origin aren't what make me a superman fan.  It is that he is the world's greatest hero

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2013, 03:34:53 AM »
Here is a link to Red Letter Media's review of "Man of Steel". Ooh, they really did not like it.

WARNING: This video review includes pervasive profanity and dirty guy-talk humor.

houtex

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2013, 04:12:14 AM »
"According to the tombstone and assuming the movie is set in 2013, Clark was 17 when Jonathan was killed."

I'm... not real sure why this is a sore point.  Sounds like it's a good number?  Was he supposed to be older or younger?

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2013, 04:42:19 AM »
Something you don't think he is.

Which is what matters vis-a-vis my enjoyment of the film.  This is a beloved and iconic character, and thus many people are going to have their own preconceived notions of who he is, what he stands for, and what he should look like (along with similar ideas about his key supporting cast).  Challenging such ingrained preconceptions is risky business.

You say this particular preconception has been sacrificed on the altar of character development, apparently based on the assumption that Superman should/will be spurred to become the character of my preconception by this moment, but this isn't something that actually happened in the movie.  If there is a sequel, what you're assuming may be shown to be the case, but it's not currently there and without that development the moment is far from "powerful" it's just tearing down a preconception for the sake of it.

Bear in mind that despite various issues I have with the film, I thought it was decent.  Sometimes that gets lost in my vociferous negativity on aspects I'm unhappy with.  I loved the Lord of the Rings movies, but I've gone off on some rather tooth-gnashing rants about the elves at Helm's Deep and the inappropriate weakness of Faramir.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

FatherXmas

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2013, 07:21:31 AM »
"According to the tombstone and assuming the movie is set in 2013, Clark was 17 when Jonathan was killed."

I'm... not real sure why this is a sore point.  Sounds like it's a good number?  Was he supposed to be older or younger?

Sorry, shifted gears there.  Fixed previous post.
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Magus Prime

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2013, 09:16:03 AM »
Here is a link to Red Letter Media's review of "Man of Steel". Ooh, they really did not like it.

WARNING: This video review includes pervasive profanity and dirty guy-talk humor.

Just watched that review.  First time ever seeing these guys.  The review itself was so disjointed and awkward.  The main guy was mildly funny on occasion and the guy in the middle laughed at ALL his jokes.  Either middle guy laughs at everything that was ever intended to be funny or those two share a special bond and were destined since the dawn of time to meet and review movies.

As the review went on it just seemed like they didn't even try to enjoy the film.  It became this blob of negativity that just fed and collapsed on itself.  And when construction guy started complaining about why the origin story can't just be a regular origin I knew everything kind of came full circle and not in a revelatory way but more like a "we're not really getting anywhere" kind of way.  I was like really?  This was cause for rampant gesticulation?  You were peeved because the origin story was filled with action scenes and wasn't just your plain run-of-the-mill origin?  What is a plain origin anyway?

Sigh.  To sum up, this is what happens when you  take three guys with no social skills who love to harp on stuff and give them one beer each. 

Golden Girl

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2013, 04:36:50 AM »
To sum up, this is what happens when you  take three guys with no social skills who love to harp on stuff and give them one beer each.

The review or the movie? :P
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houtex

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2013, 04:40:00 AM »
I think that's a little hypercritical of the movie, GG.  It wasn't The Last Airbender bad.
 
/Curse you M. Night for screwing that up so royally.  How dare you, sir.  How dare you.

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2013, 05:47:14 AM »
I think a lot of the blame for how badly Man of Steel failed as a Superman movie can be laid at the feet of Superman Returns - it seems that they decided that because Superman Returns was a bad movie, they had to ditch everything linked to traditional Superman movies, rather than realizing that the main reason that Superman Returns failed was that it had a bad story concept - so while Man of Steel is a better movie than Superman Returns, Superman Returns is a much better Superman movie than Man of Steel.
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Olde Glory

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2013, 06:56:25 AM »
As a superhero movie, it was pretty good - as a Superman movie, it wasn't so good.

THIS.

Olde Glory

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2013, 07:30:57 AM »
*SPOILERS* :P

As a long time fan of Superman I am really conflicted when it comes to this movie. There was a lot to like about it but in the end it really missed the mark on the heart of the character in fundamental ways. In fact, I enjoyed the first 2 hours (minus one tornado) a lot. It wasn't until the fighting started that I noticed that things were "off".

It started gradually with brawls in the streets of Smallville and escalated into unbridled destruction in Metropolis. I couldn't put my finger on it until I realized that They were brawling in the streets.

As I watched them punch each other through buildings I kept waiting for the point when Superman would take them away from the inevitable collateral damage.

Because, you know, that's what he does.

I have read a TON of Superman comics ranging from the Golden-Age all the way up until the late 90's and there isn't a whole lot that is comparable other than the "Death Of" with Doomsday. Even then, Superman's first priority was to protect the innocent. In Man of Steel he could have at least minimized the damage by moving the fight somewhere else. Once Zod decides that it's time to kick in Supe's head, he could have forced him down somewhere less populated after, I don't know, they careened off of a satellite?




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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2013, 10:26:01 AM »
Zod knew that humans meant a lot to Kal-El, why would he want to give up that advantage to fight in the middle of nowhere?  As for Kal-El the whole saving the world thing is brand new.  He has never had a challenge like this before.  He's never had to fight someone before.  He never had anyone who could move him if he didn't want to be moved before much less actually hurt him.  Collateral damage is something he never had to consider before.

The best he could do in Smallville was to tell the frightened citizens to get off the streets.  In Metropolis there was already a mile wide area turned to dust by the thumper beam and hopefully those who weren't pounded into a fine powder had the common sense to try and get out of the city.

So cut him some slack, he's a newb at this.
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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2013, 10:37:49 AM »
I think a lot of the blame for how badly Man of Steel failed as a Superman movie can be laid at the feet of Superman Returns - it seems that they decided that because Superman Returns was a bad movie, they had to ditch everything linked to traditional Superman movies, rather than realizing that the main reason that Superman Returns failed was that it had a bad story concept - so while Man of Steel is a better movie than Superman Returns, Superman Returns is a much better Superman movie than Man of Steel.

I will have to disagree.  It's an old canard that doesn't ring true all the time but it does in this case, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Honestly, if they made another goofy, campy Superman, no matter how well written the story, I would have shot MY first born into space.





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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2013, 04:55:09 PM »
I have to say that I partially agree with GG.  There was something 'magical' missing from Man of Steel.  As much as I loved finally seeing Superman punch someone and get punched through a building.  The movie was missing Superman being... well Superman. 

Superman Returns I did not like. Mopey stalker dead beat dad Superman is not something I like in my superheroes. But it did have that great scene with rescuing the plane.  Even from the first Superman, when the plane loses its engine, Supes takes its place and when the pilot looks out he just gives him a waves and a smile.  Saving Lois and catching the helicopter.  Man of Steel was missing those moments that just make you want to cheer.  The closest Man of Steel had was Clark catching that tower on the oil rig.  Beating up the bad guys with superpowers is great, but there's just a different type of elation from seeing him perform these acts of heroics when saving people. Because unlike Batman, Superman is about trust and hope. He needs those feel good shout out loud moments, as well as those visceral punch the baddie moments

But with all the death and destruction by Zoe and crew, it does leave the door open for Lex to step in as evil genius industrialist that thinks Superman is a threat to humanity. Evil real estate agent Lex Luthor has gotten too silly.  I want to see a Luthor who's out to defeat Superman, not because he stands in his way of cheap ocean side property, but because Lex  feels like he's a threat to humanity and his own ego. Like in the comics he would feel what Superman can do belittles human accomplishments, and therefore his own. That combined with his need for power makes a better villain.  Then have Luthor create someone like Parasite or Metallo to give Superman someone to hit and you get a fun movie.
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Battlechimp

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2013, 05:03:00 PM »
There was a couple of lines I wanted to shout out during the movie.

First was when Superman surfrenders himself and everyone was training their weapons on him.  All I could think of was the line from the Doctor Who episode "A Good Man Goes to War" where he says "Please, point a gun at me if it helps you relax.  You're only human. "

Second was in the Zod fight when Zod took hold of Superman's cape and swung him around, all I could think of was the "NO CAPES!" line from The Increibles

Glad to know I'm not the only one who had the Doctor saying that in their head at that point. :-)

But the cape thing just reminded me of Booster Gold.
'I used to have a cape you know, back when I first started. But superman took it away from me, he said I wasn't ready for a cape
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Golden Girl

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Re: Man of Steel (There Be Spoilers)
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2013, 07:42:19 PM »
I will have to disagree.  It's an old canard that doesn't ring true all the time but it does in this case, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Honestly, if they made another goofy, campy Superman, no matter how well written the story, I would have shot MY first born into space.

Here are 2 scenes from Superman Returns, featuring Superman looking and acting like Superman, but removed from the context of the stalker/deadbeat dad storyline:

The airplane rescue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xiwISrp1H4

And saving Metropolis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIMbqMmkZCI

Which parts of these traditionally presented Superman scenes are goofy and campy compared to what we saw in Man of Steel??
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