Author Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)  (Read 7321 times)

Tenzhi

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Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« on: May 22, 2013, 12:55:32 PM »
Stop me if you've heard this one:  Robocop, Mickey from Doctor Who, and Sherlock Holmes walk into Starfleet...

I kid, I kid...  I had fun watching this one, even if it turned out to be utterly predictable.  However, I've discovered that I don't like Klingons without facial hair.  I don't think the new Uhura is as sexy as the original was.  And I'm beginning to think that Scotty's alien friend is all in his head.

And I like Benedict Cumberbatch as the villain, though I think he'd make a better Cardassian or Romulan than a Khan Noonien Singh.
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Codewalker

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 01:33:32 PM »
I was going to go see this because it looked interesting, then I read some spoilers and now have absolutely zero interest in it.

If it had been an original plot it might have been a fun action movie. But ripping off key parts and scenes of ST2 and jumbling them up as a 'twist'? That's just lame.

Now I might netflix it one day if I'm bored.

Tenzhi

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 07:31:57 PM »
I think only one key scene was taken and twisted.  The plot, however, was different enough from Star Trek 2 that if the main villain had remained named John Harrison then that small twisted bit near the end could only be seen as an homage.

That reminds me - I was also amused by the reference to Section 31.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 09:46:53 PM »
Heh... a few days ago (no doubt to promote this film) Yahoo gave a list of the most memorable quotes from Star Trek. The #1 quote was from Into Darkness. All the others were pre-Abrams. Oh yeah... and that #1 quote...  ripped from pre-Abrams Trek.  8)

houtex

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 01:57:23 AM »
Indeed, it's somewhat predictable.  I knew *instantly* when he asked for the torpedo count who John Harrison really was.  I was surprised it took them that long to actually have him voice it though.

I was hoping I was wrong... as he simply isn't Khan-like.  Oh, he's a bad ass villain type, that's for dang sure, but he's not Khan-like in the looks.  Totally immersive-defeating, that.

Excepting that, heck of a show, ripped off scenes and everything.  Still don't know how the heck you can kick something in a downward manner and have it magically turn that force 90 degrees and realign perfectly, but hey... movie.  Fiction.  Stuff ain't real anyway. :)

And while I'd look forward to a third installment of this cast setup... I would rather there be a new, original story.  Enough of revisiting the old timeline, let's get something new in here, 'k?  K.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 03:01:37 AM »
I am more of a Next Gen fan than the original series, but I really did enjoy it. More than I thought. I had enough spoilers to know people would die, etc but not enough to know all the specifics. I really liked how they wrote Khan's story. I also liked that what they did with this movie was bridge it for sequels to be about new material. And Benedict was /amazing/ as a villain. Maybe he isn't... physically what Montoban was, but the personality really carries. I thought he did a great job manipulating the audience /and/ the characters. Also, seeing Klingons and Tribbles made me happy. I also thought the key scene flip was... interesting. I think Kirk and Spock also evolved as characters too. Considering that Abrams doesn't have the whole series to work with, I overall liked what he did and thought the movie was well written. I also thought it was cool to hear some of the original quotes in a new context.

houtex

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 04:12:19 AM »
Somehow I think I didn't phrase that quite right.

By saying Cumberbatch wasn't "Khan-like" I meant he simply doesn't look like what his full name, Khan Noonien Singh, would normally imply.  Also, the 'history' was written for him to have ruled from Asia to the Middle East:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9qQmuvtjkA&t=4m45s

Fully understanding that Ricardo Montalban wasn't from there either, but he sure looks the part in TOS.  However, it is entirely possible that, given the background of what he is, he could have been Asian, Polynesiean, African, Italian, Scottish, Irish, whatever... his 'creator' would have named him, and he could have still wound up owning that portion of the world under his rule.

But hey, it's Star Trek, and it's a movie.  Stuff ain't real. :)

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 05:34:03 AM »
Just to put this in perspective, if Adolf Hitler came on TV and started spouting off about this or that, he'd either be laughed away or hunted and killed. Now, give him some modern cosmetic surgery to disguise him into a new identity, and we have a whole different level of madman.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 12:27:40 PM »
Somehow I think I didn't phrase that quite right.

By saying Cumberbatch wasn't "Khan-like" I meant he simply doesn't look like what his full name, Khan Noonien Singh, would normally imply.  Also, the 'history' was written for him to have ruled from Asia to the Middle East:

I agree, really.  I thought he made for an excellent villain, but he didn't look like a Khan to me.  If I didn't enjoy his acting quite as much as I did, I might raise a fuss about it.  They could've at least gotten him a spray on tan...
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 03:25:49 PM »
Just to put this in perspective, if Adolf Hitler came on TV and started spouting off about this or that, he'd either be laughed away or hunted and killed. Now, give him some modern cosmetic surgery to disguise him into a new identity, and we have a whole different level of madman.

Logical, even plausible, but if so, they could have taken 10 seconds to describe something like that, rather than leave people (especially newer fans) scratch in their heads.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2013, 05:17:25 PM »
I was going to go see this because it looked interesting, then I read some spoilers and now have absolutely zero interest in it.

If it had been an original plot it might have been a fun action movie. But ripping off key parts and scenes of ST2 and jumbling them up as a 'twist'? That's just lame.

Now I might netflix it one day if I'm bored.

Correct me if I am wrong, which happens somewhat frequently.  But isn't this reboot of Star Trek suppose to be somewhat of a different timeline?  From the first one, you meet the "actual" Spock from the TV show after he traveled back in time on accident.  And then the current Spock and Kirk didn't like each other when first meeting, and probably would of continued not doing so if he hadn't seen that massive paradox that would of melted a mortal man's eyes.(Meeting future Spock)  I dunno, I haven't seen this new movie.  But that is what I got from the first one, especially since this timelines Vulcan planet is super dead.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 06:00:23 PM »
Yes, which is why after going to all the trouble of invoking time travel (ugh) to create a blank slate, they should actually use it and write fresh stories, IMO.

Not rehashing old ones by putting characters in situations with extremely unlikely parallels to the timeline that they've already massively diverged from. Khan should not be in this film -- it's a move completely unessential to the otherwise somewhat-original plot and probably made solely for marketing reasons.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 06:17:52 PM »
As far as Kahn is concerned though, he would've still become a potential problem.  Changes to the Trek timeline only begins to affect humanity at the point in which humans first acquire warp drive (and were originally then welcomed to the galactic neighborhood by the Vulcans). The Botany Bay was launched prior to World War 3, making it considerably older than "First Contact."

I wouldn't expect to see much more of this happening. We won't be meeting V'ger again, or get a climatological disaster from a super whale probe. I'm sure they only opted to go back to Kahn, because it was about as Starwarsy as the original Star Trek films ever got.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 06:47:48 PM »
It's still extremely unlikely. The Abramsverse split off from the main Trek timeline right around the time Kirk was born, so very recently in the grand scheme of things.

In the original timelime, it was Kirk who found the Botany Bay, significantly later in the timeline (since his taking command of the Enterprise was vastly accelerated due to the destruction of Vulcan and decimation of Starfleet). Given the vastness of space and Starfleet's priority being on rebuilding rather than exploration, I have hard time coming up with plausible scenarios in which Adm. Marcus could have not only found Khan, but known what he was capable of (and yet still somehow believed that he could keep him under control with threats).

At least other than handwaving that the mysterious Section 31 somehow knew about him and decided to act on it in this timeline, while failing to do so for many years in the original.

Tenzhi

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 08:11:56 PM »
It would be easier to believe that this was a different holdover from the eugenics war, or that this Section 31 was experimenting with genetically altered humans.  Take out the name Khan and the tacked on original Spock scene et voila.
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houtex

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 02:36:20 AM »
Oh, V'Ger and Whale Probe are easily possible.  The timeline wasn't affected in anyway regarding those two.  Ditto Guardian of Forever, Mr. Atoz, the Iotians, CharlieX, heck, even the Gary Mitchell thing is still possible.  Naked Time.  The Corbomite Maneuver.  The Doomsday Machine.  Obession, only has Kirk seen the cloud before or not?  Daystrom's M5 computer.  Day of the Dove with the anger fed alien.  Tholians.  Garth.  Lights of Zetar.  Methuselah.  Even the Genesis Device is still in play, as is the not-God, and Praxis exploding, and yes, even the Nexus.
 
Of course, we'd have to go with the Salt Monster... wouldn't that be a good revisit?  Heh.   Oh, and definitely Spock's Brain.  Have to do that.

Kidding about those last two, by the way...
 
To me, what would be *very* interseting, and I personally would dearly love to see is the Talosians revisited, as in The Menagerie/The Cage.  General Order 7 HAS NOT BEEN ISSUED YET, as Pike never got there.  He's dead now, Jim.  So if Kirk and company were to somehow stumble upon them?  Without the General Order?  A little bit more desperate Talosian population maybe due to the closer-to-extinction issue?  And Vina as the Orion Slave Girl.  Heck yeah.  Let's see that.
 
Although, it's possible they were discovered by another ship... or Marcus got to them, but that's highly unlikely, let's be honest about it.  If he had... he wouldn't be there to take the Vengeance out in the first place, I'd bet.

Oh, you want Star Wars/Khan like?  How about going after Balance of Terror?  Might as well get the Romulans some play, although we already know what they look like and all that.  But the same idea.

No?  Trelane then.  Yep, that'd be fantastic.  Or how about Let That Be Your Last Battlefield?  Mirror Mirror?   GARY FREAKIN SEVEN, people... that had a lot of good potential right there.

Point is, there are SO many TOS episodes and not-yet-seen-in-this-new-timeline characters and/or plots that would work, and work well, if done right.  Not even 'with a twist', just reimagined for the new timeline, and haven't yet BEEN affected by the timeline, and won't be, likely.  Whatever their story in TOS, the situation with the Federation and Nero would simply not have made any difference to them, so they're still there, awaiting their discovery by the Enterprise.

Having said that... I sincerely hope they go elsewhere for a story instead of taking yet another piece of TOS and mucking about with it.  New content.  Original.  Well, as original as a couple thousand years of story writing will let 'em be. :)

---

Re: 'controlling' Khan.  The difference is that Marcus was being proactive, as he explained, in searching for new ways to defend the Federation.  And they got to Botany Bay sooner.  Figured out what was going on (like Spock did in the original show) with Khan, et al.  Decided to hold the others hostage to make Khan do their bidding.  That's it.   As far as how he go to her sooner... Yeah.  That is quite interesting, but if you have enough sensors actively whacking everything possible... a DY-100 class Sleeper Ship would definitely show up. 

The problem with the Botany Bay and her whereabouts is this:  Some say only 20 LY away from Earth, some say 300, and anywhere in between.  As there were no records of the Botany Bay being launched, nor who was in it, the trajectory was not known.  Turns out it was towards Betelgeuse, which is 'south east' of Klingon space... according to the maps in Star Trek Encyclopedia, anyway...

Point is... rather amazing that she was found by Marcus.  But excepting that, 'controlling' Khan would have been easy as he cared about his fellow ship mates enough to do it... and bide his time.  They were safe, just frozen, after all.

Adm. Marcus was a person of which good riddance was deserved (as written).  Having Khan off him with the skull crush in front of Carol?  A bit horrid, over the top, but pointing out what Spock Prime said "Ruthless and will kill you to get what he wants."  (paraphrased)
 
---
 
Wow.  I did carry on, didn't I?  :)
 
I'd like to say this about Trek movies vs a series on TV (or cable... or even internet)
 
The problem with a movie is it has to be a heavy hitter, hitting hard, to keep the entertainment value.  Long, interesting, intellectual/topical stories like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield do not do well in the theatre.   Star Trek is NOT movie material, by and large.   Final Frontier, Insurrecton, and Nemesis.  All did badly.  Especially Nemesis.  And yet, Nemesis was about as TNG as TNG got, and Final Frontier was the same for TOS. 
 
But in the big screen... not so much, no.  So you have to go with flashy explody tenseness of dramatic.  And with a few exceptions, that's not TOS, nor is it really Trek.
 
It is going to have to be though, if they want to keep this ship afloat on the big screen.
 
Maybe I shut up now. Heh.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:01:29 AM by houtex »

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2013, 08:26:22 PM »
Another problem that you have, is there was a time when films were necessary to take a low-budget TV concept and take it to the next level. With the introduction of CGI, that isn't nearly as necessary. For sci-fi shows in particular (because they require a lot more work for things that don't exist in everyday life), this presents an unusual imbalance.

What amazes me though is there were a LOT of places they could have gone with the original timeline. Places that would've presented plenty of opportunities for death, lasers, and star ship 'jibs.' Starfleet history has seem more than its share of wars, and any one of them could have been turned into a film-worthy tale.

That didn't seem to be enough for Hollywood though. I fear that humanity has reached a moral plateau of sorts. We once looked up to our heroes, and aspired to become better people, so we could be more like them. One only needs to watch Batman torturing the Joker in an interrogation room to realize that we no longer want to look up to our heroes. We want them to come down to our level, so they don't tell us we're doing something wrong.

The problem isn't that old Star Trek didn't have the capacity for blockbuster epics (The Wrath of Kahn proves that). They had to take it a step further, and increase the inter-personal drama between the crew. They didn't want that heartwarming camaraderie anymore. They didn't want life on the Enterprise to feel like family. They had to make it more on par with society's barbaric and paranoid nature, even to the point at making Spock, Star Trek's quintessential voice of reason, into an emotionally unstable, sexually impulsive (Pon Farr does NOT count)... human.

*************

As for going over the old material. Yes, there's a lot of great stories in TOS. But you also have to keep in mind that at the time, those plots were very unique. Since that time, they've been recycled in a hundred other mainstream films and shows, and are now more like cliches.

I'd love to see the Planet Killer though... if only they could find a way to make it look more intimidating without shredding CANON in the process. The original solution for destroying it just... didn't make much sense, considering the fact that it probably swallowed entire volcanic worlds without even getting indigestion.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2013, 09:52:07 PM »
Does anyone feel like Banner's signature line from The Avengers, "That's my secret Captain, I'm always angry" can now be said by Spock as well?  Spock SMASH!

Again this is like the problem doing a Superman movie that doesn't have either Lex Luthor or Zod in it.  That's what the public remembers about the last time a Superman movie was made.  Name the "villain" from the original TOS movies.  Vger, Khan, Klingons, Space Whale Probe, false God and hawkish elements Star Fleet itself.  You could clump both Vger and Space Whale Probe into the giant ship that can kick Star Fleet's butt.  We sort of got that with Nero's ship.  In this movie we got both Khan and hawkish elements of Star Fleet.  All we are missing now is the false God plot and their probably won't redo that because it was an odd number ST movie.

They could do the Guardian of Forever but haven't we done enough time travel already?  The planet killer is a good idea but we all know how to kill it so we would need a twist on it.  I like what Peter David did with the planet killer in his NexGen novel Vendetta.  In it we find out what Kirk fought was a prototype of an anti-borg weapon.  But it does fall into the "giant ship that can kick Star Fleet's butt" classification so done that recently, twice if you count the Admiral's Killerprise.

Problem is ST:TOS due to it's time period is mainly contained stories.  Isolated on a planet or within the ship and not really space battles.  It was about exploring, meeting new civilizations (from the viewers PoV) and then browbeating them to our morality.  Vger was Nomad.  Honestly I can't think of a plot from TOS that hadn't been done in a fashion already that could be used in a Summer Tent Pool movie.
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JetFlash

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2013, 07:08:09 PM »
Enjoyed the movie, had to really stretch my Suspend Disbelief power at times however.  I still don't care for the iBridge and a still don't like the Brewery - er, Engineering.  The Warp Core looked OK however.

The strength of the film (as was the first one) was the casting of the Enterprise officers.  Karl Urban's McCoy especially.

My 2 INF, YMMV. :)


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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2013, 08:59:59 PM »
The strength of the film (as was the first one) was the casting of the Enterprise officers.  Karl Urban's McCoy especially.

Karl Urban plays a great McCoy. His portrayal is one of the few things that might tempt me to go see it in spite of all the reasons not to.


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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 09:31:05 PM »
Karl Urban plays a great McCoy. His portrayal is one of the few things that might tempt me to go see it in spite of all the reasons not to.


There were AT LEAST 3 occasions where I could have sworn I was listening to DeForest Kelly's voice.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 09:33:26 PM »
There could be a reason for that.

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/17/18326545-star-trek-reaches-warp-speed-at-real-fusion-lab?lite

Yup, I did notice that it appeared to be an actual location like that.  I thought it more appropo than a friggin' brewery.


houtex

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 02:08:53 AM »
Actually, they are testing it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White%E2%80%93Juday_warp-field_interferometer

And it's here in Houston.  Sweet. :D
 
Not that they've gotten far, but yep, we're gonna send a soda can to Proxima Alpha and back, and take only a few weeks...
 
...Soon(tm).
 
/Oh, how I loved that phrasing by the Devs. :)

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 02:14:51 AM »
Actually, they are testing it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White%E2%80%93Juday_warp-field_interferometerAnd it's here in Houston.  Sweet. :D

Yeah, I know they're working on it, but I keep waiting to hear an estimate for when they expect to be ready to run the beam test. It's been at least a couple of years since I first heard about it.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 01:39:26 AM »
So the wife and I took in Star Trek: Into Darkness today. I apologize in advance if I've covered other peoples points, but I haven't been following the thread closely as to avoid the majority of spoilers.


From the very opening scene of this movie, it grabs you by the neck and doesn't let you go until the credits are rolling. There are moments when you get to breath, but they're very short sequences and generally are there simply to allow you some time to catch your breath before the roller coaster starts back up again.

Let me just say that ultimately I found this a good Star Trek movie. Star Trek (2009) was a good film, but Into Darkness is probably the first Star Trek movie we've had since The Undiscovered Country. What do I mean by that? I mean this film has meat on its bones beyond the action slugfests we normally have. And while it is buried underneath the action, the film does have a actual narrative to it.

Specifically, it's addressing a long standing issue with the Trek franchise as a whole - Is - and Should - Starfleet be militarized? This is a obvious callback to the dialogue in Star Trek II (as are a lot of things in the film), but it's given more prominence and the weight of the subject isn't merely glossed over.

Admiral Marcus believed war with the Klingon Empire was inevitable, so he and Section 31 took steps to be ready for that war - even if it meant violating every rule on the books to do so. In addition to this, we get two fold growth from both Spock and Kirk. Kirk in the film gets a firsthand and very visceral lesson of what can result when you ignore orders and regulations you don't agree with, and Spock gets growth in his confrontation with Khan in that in some instances, Cold Logic isn't enough.

I really liked the themes and elements of the movie. Khan himself seemed like a side show, the low hanging fruit of the franchise to serve as the antagonist that drives forward the plot and then ultimately the final foil (Though I'd say Admiral Marcus is the film's true menace since everything in the movie was done to cover up the fact Section 31 unthawed Khan). As to Khan, I have to say I'm glad Cumberbatch wasn't forced to emulate Montiban and instead allowed to do Khan in his own way. It really helped the story that Khan wasn't a simple carbon copy. I also liked that he was less an adversary for most of the film and more a unwilling ally. It helps build the eventual conflict all the more, specifically because Kirk was the one who initially betrays Khan when he orders Scotty to drop him. Khan didn't have to save Kirk during the ship jump, after all.

All in all, I am tremendously satisfied with Into Darkness. It's by no means the "Best Trek Movie ever" but it's a triumphant return to the franchise's movie "roots" of being an action movie with more meat on the bones. The fact Cumberbatch's Khan is probably the least Khan-like villain we've had since The Undiscovered Country also helps immensely too.

Some other random bits of the movie I liked:

- The Dress Uniforms. Given the movie's undertone about whether Starfleet was or wasn't a military organization, I loved the new Dress outfits. It gives an air of professionalism that the multi-colored jumpers sorely lacked, while at the same time not being a full on Dress Uniform like a Military would have. They honestly looked like Cops...which is what they are, if Starfleet is ultimately a peacekeeping organization.

- The Admirals Uniforms. They took about the only good looking outfit from Star Trek: The Motion Picture and adapted it. Bravo.

- The Klingons. I was bracing myself for this, and almost immediately I desperately wanted to see more of them. I love everything about them. Their merging of TOS and TNG styling, the Helmets (Which also saves the extras from being forced into 2+ hour makeup sessions simply to be on screen for thirty seconds). The new forehead ridges, the redesigned Bat'leths, the atmospheric Birds of Prey (Which looked like ungainly lumps of nothing in stills but are amazing in motion)...More! More! More! More! MORE!

- The violation of the Prime Directive. I know this scene caused some stink because the Enterprise is under water (Which is a tad odd. Even if they can't use transporters due to magnetic interference, why send the entire ship down?), but I liked it because it gave us an alien species that had more effort put into it then simply slap a forehead on them. Great use of body paint to give them a dried out, parched skin look.

- Spock and Khan's knuckleduster. Not only is it a culmination of Khan's original comment to Spock about "breaking bones" but logically (heh) Spock is the only one of the main cast that is comparable to Khan in strength. If they were going to have a slobberknocker, Spock was the one to do it.

- Sulu in the Captain's chair. Obvious foreshadowing may be obvious, but it's nice to see the new Trek acknowledge that Sulu has it in him to be a good Captain. "Lieutenant, remind me never to piss you off."

- The "TOS Feel" is still alive and well from the previous movie. It just "feels" right.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2013, 05:02:16 AM »
I finally got around to watching this - which is odd, as I liked the 2009 one, but just didn't have the time to check the new one out until now.

I've never really been a Trek fan - I've kind of just dipped in and out of the various series and seen a few of the movies, so I've been able to watch these new versions without having too many expectations about what should or shouldn't be in a Trek movie, and I've really enjoyed them both - they seem much more energetic than the earlier ones, and I think the new cast has been able to avoid just doing impersonations of the original cast, and make the characters their own.
Apart from the one obvious bad part, I also liked the addition of Carol to the crew - and Khan now joins Loki as another recent addition to the list of implausibly hot British bad guys :P
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2013, 04:54:28 AM »
I think the new cast has been able to avoid just doing impersonations of the original cast, and make the characters their own.

Karl Urban somehow does both excellently at the same time and, in my opinion, is the best of the bunch because of it.  It still boggles my mind that this is the same guy who did Dredd (not because the movie is bad, but rather because it's such a character difference both in attitude and physical presence).
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2013, 04:39:26 PM »
Karl Urban somehow does both excellently at the same time and, in my opinion, is the best of the bunch because of it.  It still boggles my mind that this is the same guy who did Dredd (not because the movie is bad, but rather because it's such a character difference both in attitude and physical presence).
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2013, 08:08:47 PM »
Karl Urban somehow does both excellently at the same time and, in my opinion, is the best of the bunch because of it.  It still boggles my mind that this is the same guy who did Dredd (not because the movie is bad, but rather because it's such a character difference both in attitude and physical presence).

He seems to be one of those actors that's able to really disappear into their role - unlike, say Tom Cruise or Samuel L Jackson - not that those 2 are bad actors, but they do tend to pretty much play the same character type in each movie :P
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2013, 02:10:56 AM »
SLJ at least changes his hair for each role. :)
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2013, 02:44:49 AM »
I don't know how you equate "Bad Ass Mo Fo" from this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ggJsfSAAu4&t=1m35s
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kBRC2co7Y

Yeah.  Totally the same character.  :)   You can very easily see him spouting scientific and computer code as Jules or Mace.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2013, 03:33:33 AM »
I said "pretty much", not "always" :P
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2013, 05:32:00 AM »
I know.  Just playin', GG! :)

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2013, 06:49:08 PM »
Another thing with this Trek reboot is that they seem to be actively encouraging the Kirk/Spock slashfic fandom, rather than trying to pretend that there's nothing going on :P
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2013, 04:37:05 AM »
They keep wanting it to happen, that K/S stuff... it's not going to happen, canonically.

/Then again, what do I know.  Freakin' reboots could mean Kirk and Spock get married next movie..  Star Trek: Into Honeymoon.  Thataway, Second Suite on the Right, and Straight on until Morning.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2013, 04:48:57 PM »
They keep wanting it to happen, that K/S stuff... it's not going to happen, canonically.

Carol's introduction to Kirk and Spock was pretty blatantly played to be taken that way :P
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2013, 01:06:20 AM »
Sure, if you WANT that to be the case, it is... much like possession vs law, belief is 90% of fact, right?  :D

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2013, 02:11:36 AM »
Spock was absolutely radiating jealousy from every word, look and bit of body language :P

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2013, 06:08:09 AM »
Coincidentally, my favorite moment of the movie is Kirk and Uhura in the elevator, when Kirk realizes the two are fighting.

"Ohmaigawd, what is that like?!"

Major props to Chris Pine for genuinely having fun with his character.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2013, 05:34:10 AM »
Spock was absolutely radiating jealousy from every word, look and bit of body language :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWg1BTCnAA4

Ok, yeah, looks like it, but that is not what's going on.  (note... I can't believe I'm having a K/S debate... for the record, I don't even get on board with (aka 'ship) that, but carryin' on...)

At first, sure, but it's Spock being *suspicious* first and foremost as to why Carol is even being allowed to come on board.  He is, as we all know, a hella smart person.  And also not nearly as controlled in his emotional department, as his carryin' on with Uhura shows, so there might be a hint of uncomfortable due to the recent crap and perhaps a little unsure about his position as well... but that was not anywhere near jealousy.  She is *superfluous*, and that makes him suspect her even being there in the first place.

But Kirk's the Captain, and he's the First Officer/Science Officer, so he can't really tell him no on this one.  She comes along.  And he discovers and uncovers her ruse due to his suspicion. 

/But on top of that, he's got Uhura.  Like she's gonna let Kirk horn in on her man.  As if.
//Or hell, maybe you're right, he's hella jealous and uncovers Carol's real nature in the hopes Kirk will rush into his arms and slip him the tongue like Spock is some sorta Big Damn Hero.  What do I know.
///Now, being as Zachary Quinto has come out as a gay man, perhaps in real life he couldn't help himself but be jealous of Alice Eve vis a vis Chris Pine... :D

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2013, 07:30:30 PM »
Just gonna say I really enjoyed it! It was especially cool to see it as part of a double feature - first Abrams movie at 9, new one at midnight.

Yes, which is why after going to all the trouble of invoking time travel (ugh) to create a blank slate, they should actually use it and write fresh stories, IMO.

Not rehashing old ones by putting characters in situations with extremely unlikely parallels to the timeline that they've already massively diverged from. Khan should not be in this film -- it's a move completely unessential to the otherwise somewhat-original plot and probably made solely for marketing reasons.

I did see a quote from one of the writers - I guess the two were at odds about putting Khan in the movie. They ended up starting to write the movie with a new villain, being coerced in some way to serve Starfleet for nefarious ends, but ended up deciding to make that villain Khan, because there was actually a plausible reason / way for him to be the villain that was being coerced.
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