Author Topic: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra  (Read 19710 times)

Golden Girl

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2013, 09:38:25 PM »
Libertaing the code would just be us flying free, which is what NCsoft asked us to do.
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UruzSix

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2013, 10:10:41 PM »
Sounds like the planned end was around a few months at least prior to shutdown announcement. Seems as if the inner upper management knew about it, tried their hardest and more to prevent it but last minute things sunk. Why not tell the employees what is going on so when the announcement came it was not out of the blue? While it looked like the from the sound of it, the deal was in the bag what seemed to have been forgotten is that nothing is for sure until the last dotted line is signed. Sounds like everyone was caught by surprised because it was assumed that the deal would go through. Of course no one wants to be the negative guy but there should always be ready for worse. 
Well what is done is done but its good more details have surfaced to had a little more clarity to the situation. And it seemed those people were very passionate about their jobs. Unfortunately it seems that sometimes passion is not enough when the head guys make a decision.

Yuuuuuup.  :-\

OzonePrime

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2013, 10:22:44 PM »
I guess its time someone ran an advertisement or two at some of these websites...........
Great idea!

LadyVamp

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »
Good find, TonyV.  That's probably the best write up on what happened and efforts to save it that I've ever seen.  It would be very interesting to know what the sticking points were.  I'm wondering if the team from PS that did the negotiations has talked to NCsoft recently.  Or perhaps our team that is pitching the idea to buy should consider putting out a feeler or two with NCsoft.  It couldn't hurt and the worst thing they could do they've already done.
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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2013, 11:19:45 PM »
Thank you Tony for the article. It was very informative.... excuse me tho, I think I need to go cry again. x.x

I wonder if their secret projects were the sticking points... I know that came up a couple months back--that CoX could have been a causality in a war over something else. I had a friend too who gave a conspiracy theory. How much money would DC or Marvel give to close the game no questions asked? While I didn't take to the theory, it did cause me to ponder a moment.

Man... two weeks away from fixing my blasters and corruptors... I don't know what's worse--not having that awesome tier 9 nuke or playing it out like I did. (I unfortunately never got onto beta.) Of course... having the fix for the last three months would have bitten the dust in an entirely new way... but.. I'd have respected my mains for it. :( And only one signature! *sighs* So much sadness here.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 11:30:31 PM by Menrva Channel »

LightBlack

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2013, 01:28:03 PM »
I think you'll find that most people would find stealing code a lot better morally than firing 80 people with little to no warning and no other preventative actions taken. Its not like they are going to be losing money over it.

I think Segev has provided a good response to this already, but I want to add a few comments to that.

I currently work in an employment and labor law firm. As Segev has noted: (1) there was warning (as the article noted, most people knew what was happening before and were aware of the decision coming into the office the day it was made effective), (2) there was reasonable compensation (severance, references, etc.), and (3) there were preventative actions (which unfortunately for them and us, were ineffective). Within the eyes of the law, this is a pretty reasonable package for PS employees.

Moreover, under the WARN Act and its Californian counterpart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraining_Notification_Act), NCSoft and PS are either exempt from this and are not obligated to provide notification OR they did provide notification and thus aren't being sued over it currently.

So, returning to the issue of whether or not NCSoft's actions are moral or reasonable, the argument can be made (and the law would plausibly support this argument) that their decision is both moral and reasonable. Whether or not you personally find it to be so is a different issue.

eabrace

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2013, 01:36:24 PM »
Moreover, under the WARN Act and its Californian counterpart, NCSoft and PS are either exempt from this and are not obligated to provide notification OR they did provide notification and thus aren't being sued over it currently.
As I understood it at the time, PS employees were no longer working after the announcement, but were still technically on the payroll until the day the servers went dark.  That would certainly qualify for providing notice in advance.
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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2013, 01:44:18 PM »
It bears mentioning that, as ruthless as they were to the studio itself and the players, they seemed to treat the devs well - I remember Zwilinger mention something about job fairs and generally helping them land on their feet? It doesn't excuse them from burying the game, but I guess it's a "pet the dog" kind of thing. Or maybe they didn't want the bad rap from the employees they just unceremoniously axed.

Segev

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2013, 01:55:40 PM »
At the risk of raising old specters, the almost loving care given to ease the employees themselves into the next stages of their careers with other employers, just like some of the more negative internal reactions hypothesized by some of our community, can in some ways be explained (whether accurately or not) by the concept of East Asian culture and power structures. Not kibun, exactly, but still, an employer in East Asia is, in many ways, still viewed in the same light that an ancient feudal lord would have been.

Even if an underling shows great disrespect, to the point that you can no longer countenance his House staying with yours, you, as lord, have a responsibility for all who owe you fealty. If you are forced to renounce them for anything short of an extremely public breach of etiquette so severe that you would have to call for their ritual suicide to cleanse the stain of dishonor, it is far better to construct a polite fiction that hides the reason you must get rid of them, for you and for them. You then treat them with almost paternal care, ensuring they find a way to "land on their feet," precisely because the polite society fiction that all will nod to in order to (publicly) ignore spectacle is that it's a regrettable necessity but you're parting on amiable terms and you, as lord, are still seeking to provide for your vassal even in the last days of his service to you.

No, I'm not saying this paints NCSoft back in a villainous light. Their actions in this one respect are laudable. They're also understandable through a lens of East Asian cultural expectations. It falls under one of their versions of "common decency."

JaguarX

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2013, 02:06:36 PM »
It bears mentioning that, as ruthless as they were to the studio itself and the players, they seemed to treat the devs well - I remember Zwilinger mention something about job fairs and generally helping them land on their feet? It doesn't excuse them from burying the game, but I guess it's a "pet the dog" kind of thing. Or maybe they didn't want the bad rap from the employees they just unceremoniously axed.

To tell you the truth I never heard of a way of being ceremoniously axed. Unless ya a big wig CEO that get a gold watch a car and the company jet use on weekends to go with the golden parachute when they get fired. For most people, which usually don't raise a single brow, is usually either mail or hand delivery of two week notice or called in the boss office saying ya done. No severence package no being on payroll for three months at home getting paid no job fairs, ya completely on your own. So in reality compared to how it mostly work the firing process of PS was pretty nice compared to how average joes get kicked to the curb for as little of a reason the board want to increase CEO christmas bonus but want to balance the pay roll. Or hell for no reason at all because they can.
I don't think they should but probably would have gotten a bad rap. This us 80 people. But how many did GM Chrysler Ford Apple Microsoft Best Buy and banks and etc let go? Yet no bad rap for them. Any many if those fired from said company had less warning whole department and in some cases whole stores and not a single dime gained from sitting at home nor any semblence of severence package.

Too much magnifying ncsoft actions but not bat eyelash or passing off as normal. Just things to consider ss the effort gains more publicity. 

Segev

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2013, 02:21:04 PM »
No, seriously. We need to not be treating companies as evil enemies. As a general rule, they aren't. They don't hate their employees. No company LIKES having to downsize, but sometimes it's necessary. Employees are hired because employers expect them to generate more revenue than it costs to employ them. If that turns out to be untrue, they have to let the employee go, and that stings because it means the employer is not making as much money as he could be. And that's leaving aside the fact that, believe it or not, businesses are run by human beings with hearts that beat in their chests and minds that do understand that real people depend on their jobs for their livelihoods. Sure, not every business manager is a good person, but far fewer than you probably imagine are not evil people, either. Just people trying to do their best to do their duty to their families, the employees they CAN keep on, and possibly their own bosses (who are, themselves, just people...often you or me, if you own any stocks at all).

P51mus

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2013, 02:30:18 PM »
But there are also people fired due to the incompetence of their employers.

Segev

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2013, 02:51:35 PM »
Indeed. Generally, said employers also are "fired," either literally (because they have bosses who do so) or effectively (as their incompetence causes their business to fail).

It's sad for those who had no fault in it and would be unreasonable to necessarily blame them for not seeing how inept their boss was and moving somewhere else. If they were good enough to know how to run things, they probably would be starting their own business to do it.

But, such is life. It doesn't make anybody in particular evil to be incompetent, and, moreover, their companies failing is good in the long run, as the competent employees will find jobs at better-run businesses and ultimately do better, while the inept employers will be demoted by reality's exigencies to a role more suited to their skills.

Nebularian

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2013, 03:08:44 PM »
Indeed. Generally, said employers also are "fired," either literally (because they have bosses who do so) or effectively (as their incompetence causes their business to fail).

It's sad for those who had no fault in it and would be unreasonable to necessarily blame them for not seeing how inept their boss was and moving somewhere else. If they were good enough to know how to run things, they probably would be starting their own business to do it.

But, such is life. It doesn't make anybody in particular evil to be incompetent, and, moreover, their companies failing is good in the long run, as the competent employees will find jobs at better-run businesses and ultimately do better, while the inept employers will be demoted by reality's exigencies to a role more suited to their skills.

Well said.  I was constructing a post to say about the same thing....but decided against it since I was going, I think, a bit too far.  Again.  Well said!
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TonyV

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2013, 04:02:27 PM »
For most people...no severence package no being on payroll for three months at home getting paid no job fairs, ya completely on your own.

For the record, once you reach a certain level (and developers would be in this group), it is extremely unusual to not get some kind of decent severance package if you're let go.  I'm not a CEO or vice president or executive, but I've gotten severance of at twelve weeks every time I've been let go since the first time I experienced that back in 1997, and all of my coworkers have gotten that when they've been let go.  I'm not saying that every company is like that, but I do think it's the rule, not the exception for it to happen, especially if you're let go due to layoffs.

Plus, it's not like NCsoft was just giving them money out of the kindness of their hearts.  There are strings attached to severance packages, such as agreeing not to talk to the press or disparaging the company.  Believe me, that was a factor in why there weren't a lot of people all over the gaming press sites spilling their guts after the studio shutdown.  (The other major factor being that if you're looking for a job, it kind of looks bad to prospective employers if your name shows up in Google searches in articles complaining publicly about your previous employer.)

JaguarX

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2013, 04:06:30 PM »
For the record, once you reach a certain level (and developers would be in this group), it is extremely unusual to not get some kind of decent severance package if you're let go.  I'm not a CEO or vice president or executive, but I've gotten severance of at twelve weeks every time I've been let go since the first time I experienced that back in 1997, and all of my coworkers have gotten that when they've been let go.  I'm not saying that every company is like that, but I do think it's the rule, not the exception for it to happen, especially if you're let go due to layoffs.

Plus, it's not like NCsoft was just giving them money out of the kindness of their hearts.  There are strings attached to severance packages, such as agreeing not to talk to the press or disparaging the company.  Believe me, that was a factor in why there weren't a lot of people all over the gaming press sites spilling their guts after the studio shutdown.  (The other major factor being that if you're looking for a job, it kind of looks bad to prospective employers if your name shows up in Google searches in articles complaining publicly about your previous employer.)

Yup but a lot of working stiffs are not at that level.
And absolutely correct about the public complaining part. I don't think all companies even give two week notices out the kindness of their hearts. In many places, its the law.

Cinnder

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2013, 06:32:53 PM »
Thanks for the link, Tony, and for continuing to represent our interests in the best ways possible.  Your posted comment makes the most of this opportunity to shine more light on the topic.

The fact that people are still talking about the closure -- combined with the fact that we still have a strong community with leadership producing such cogent responses -- is keeping my hopes alive.

Bold

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2013, 06:37:37 PM »
Looks like this write-up has been noticed by Stumbleupon, so yay for coverage!

Mistress Urd

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2013, 08:29:03 PM »
Keep putting the pressure on NCSoft folks, know that we don't go away.

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Illusionss

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Re: Huge new write-up of CoH/PS closure on Gamasutra
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2013, 02:24:35 PM »
Well, that just refires my rage at NCsoft.

ONE SIGNATURE AWAY FROM KEEPING OUR GAME!

TWO WEEKS AWAY FROM I24!

So mad again.

In spite of of our rage we are all still rats in a cage.

[But not NC$oft's cage. YOu can bet your sweet bippy on that one. Nope, this little rat has fled the building.]

So. Much. Hate. for that bunch. May they be treated just exactly like how they treat their customers.