Author Topic: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...  (Read 13915 times)

Kaos Arcanna

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Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« on: March 03, 2013, 11:18:09 PM »
So I've enjoyed DC Online, Champions Online, and now I've been dabbling a bit in Diablo 3.

I am REALLY missing COH's attitude about gear.

"Save your money, you'll need it for your gear", "You'll need to do raids for gear"...

I miss how in COH I could get a character to 50, and not have to worry about gear. Sure, I could
farm for IOs or buy them from the market, but there was plenty to do if I DIDN'T. I could roll up
dozens of alts-- I wound up with over 100 toons by the end-- and had plenty of content to entertain
me along the way.

Now it feels like every game I play now is expecting me to do raids or something else to trick my
character out... so I can do more raids...

Don't get me wrong. I've had fun in both DC Online and CO, but I'm not a raidy, gear kind of guy.

I just want something that doesn't seem to point me in only one direction for what I'm supposed to do
after I level a character.

Nos482

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 02:10:58 AM »
You're preaching to the choir here.
I'm bad and that's good.
I'll never be good and that's not bad.
There's no one I'd rather be than me.

...unless I could be Batman, of course. Everybody wants to be Batman.

Rotten Luck

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 04:03:02 AM »
Amen!
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

WolfSoul

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 04:12:55 AM »
Got to agree. Although, what frustrates me the most about gear is having to repair it. I don't want to stop someone and spend money "repairing" my gear, what a PITA.

Kuriositys Kat

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 04:23:51 AM »
Right there with you! 
In the game I play now *cough* involving a certain circular golden band object*cough* the gear question is always coming up.  Frankly I am tired of having to recalculate what  piece of armour is better for me and this is in just normal adventuring mode not raiding not PVPing.  Ah to be able to say this power is uber DPS  with a long recharge: three Damage, 1  Accuracy, 2 recharge and DONE!
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Mistress Urd

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 05:09:33 AM »
So I've enjoyed DC Online, Champions Online, and now I've been dabbling a bit in Diablo 3.

I am REALLY missing COH's attitude about gear.

"Save your money, you'll need it for your gear", "You'll need to do raids for gear"...

I miss how in COH I could get a character to 50, and not have to worry about gear. Sure, I could
farm for IOs or buy them from the market, but there was plenty to do if I DIDN'T. I could roll up
dozens of alts-- I wound up with over 100 toons by the end-- and had plenty of content to entertain
me along the way.

Now it feels like every game I play now is expecting me to do raids or something else to trick my
character out... so I can do more raids...

Don't get me wrong. I've had fun in both DC Online and CO, but I'm not a raidy, gear kind of guy.

I just want something that doesn't seem to point me in only one direction for what I'm supposed to do
after I level a character.

I really prefered the pre ED game with no hamidons. No loot made the game casual friendly. However, loot sells and keeps people playing and paying.

Tenzhi

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 05:14:25 AM »
I was quite often worried about gear in CoH.  It started out as a really irritating issue, as I could often scarce afford to move to DOs and then SOs much less worry about the fact that if I leveled up during a mission I might suddenly find myself a great deal weaker than before I leveled up.  I mean, lots of games have a system where your equipment can eventually "break" from use, but I think  CoH might be the only one I've played where all your equipment can break because you gained a level.

As the game evolved, income for DOs and SOs became a non-issue.  However, the specter of gettting-weaker-on-leveling still loomed until basic IOs came along.  At first those were prohibitive to get for me because I hate crafting, then they were available on the market in great quantities and I was able to purchase them (though really, they should have just replaced the existing and rather terrible TOs/DOs/SOs in the regular stores at *reasonable* prices), but after awhile they became scarce on the market.

And, of course, I would have liked to gear up with sets, but that whole system was irritating.  Some bits of sets seemed to be available in strangely located vendors using one of the bajillion currencies that I didn't accrue near enough of to be able to reasonably purchase anything - in recipe form, of course, which meant dealing with the annoying crafting system anyway.  Then there was the rare useful recipe drop.  And, of course, the possibility of paying way too much for them on the market (or else not being able to find it on the market because it wasn't popular enough to sell for hundreds of milliions of Inf so no one put it up for sell).

On top of that, in CoH you were concerned with equipping, what, 70+ pieces of gear by the time you got to level 50?  The usual number of equipment slots is a lot less than that.

The only good things I can say about it, is that it allowed for micromanagement of your equipment bonuses (at a basic level, even, IO set bonuses notwithstanding) and it didn't impact character appearance.
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Lothic

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 03:50:59 PM »
In the game I play now *cough* involving a certain circular golden band object*cough* the gear question is always coming up.  Frankly I am tired of having to recalculate what  piece of armour is better for me and this is in just normal adventuring mode not raiding not PVPing.  Ah to be able to say this power is uber DPS  with a long recharge: three Damage, 1  Accuracy, 2 recharge and DONE!
As much as I actually like the setting of that game one of the main reasons I don't play it anymore is that I find the clothing-based gear system it uses to be very tedious/annoying.  Having to worry about whether my dwarvish pinky-ring that provides +3.5% protection versus toxic damage on Tuesdays works well with my elvish pants that gives me +4.7% versus Goblins with pink polka dots is just far too much open-ended micro-management for my evolving tastes in gaming.  Sure you could say CoH's IO system required micro-management too, but at least it was more structured/limited and didn't rely on random items providing random combinations of buffs. :-\

I was quite often worried about gear in CoH.  It started out as a really irritating issue, as I could often scarce afford to move to DOs and then SOs much less worry about the fact that if I leveled up during a mission I might suddenly find myself a great deal weaker than before I leveled up.  I mean, lots of games have a system where your equipment can eventually "break" from use, but I think  CoH might be the only one I've played where all your equipment can break because you gained a level.

As the game evolved, income for DOs and SOs became a non-issue.  However, the specter of gettting-weaker-on-leveling still loomed until basic IOs came along.  At first those were prohibitive to get for me because I hate crafting, then they were available on the market in great quantities and I was able to purchase them (though really, they should have just replaced the existing and rather terrible TOs/DOs/SOs in the regular stores at *reasonable* prices), but after awhile they became scarce on the market.

And, of course, I would have liked to gear up with sets, but that whole system was irritating.  Some bits of sets seemed to be available in strangely located vendors using one of the bajillion currencies that I didn't accrue near enough of to be able to reasonably purchase anything - in recipe form, of course, which meant dealing with the annoying crafting system anyway.  Then there was the rare useful recipe drop.  And, of course, the possibility of paying way too much for them on the market (or else not being able to find it on the market because it wasn't popular enough to sell for hundreds of milliions of Inf so no one put it up for sell).

On top of that, in CoH you were concerned with equipping, what, 70+ pieces of gear by the time you got to level 50?  The usual number of equipment slots is a lot less than that.

The only good things I can say about it, is that it allowed for micromanagement of your equipment bonuses (at a basic level, even, IO set bonuses notwithstanding) and it didn't impact character appearance.
I suppose one could argue that CoH's gear system was a little hard to deal with, especially in the first few years and/or if you never got involved with crafting.  On the other hand if you did do a bit of crafting you could literally afford almost any gear possible in the game without having to do hyper-annoying raids where you only have like 1 in a 1,000 chance to get the super rare "+5 Holy Vorpal Toothpick of Doom" or some-such that you have to suffer with in other games. :'(

I never really considered myself to be a major crafter in CoH.  But by the end I managed to streamline a specific set recipes I could churn out that would net me roughly 100-150 million INF a day with only about 10 minutes of effort a day.  That's not even counting any big loot I'd get in drops to make even more INF.  This almost trivial amount of crafting allowed me to easily equip all of my alts with decent enhancements and eventually get multiple purple/PvP IO sets for my mains.

I'll always consider CoH's loot system to be much less "headache-inducing" than most games.  By the end the game's market/crafting system made it effectively a non-issue.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

LadyShin

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 05:14:04 PM »
 :roll: just wait, there'll be a summer blockbuster event where The Watcher will allow top level heroes in DCUO to unlock their potential in a hybrid IO/Incarnate slotting system.  :P
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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 05:22:07 PM »
I'll always consider CoH's loot system to be much less "headache-inducing" than most games.  By the end the game's market/crafting system made it effectively a non-issue.

So far I agree.  While I had trouble affording super-top-end gear in COH -- it took me about three months each time I decided to put set IOs onto a 50, and I only completed a limited number of "finished builds" -- I could do it.  In NO other game have I gotten top-end gear more easily; it's always harder or outright impossible.  I still play Diablo 2 at least once a week, sometimes more often; its "statistical rarity based" distribution of top end gear means there are still items I've never found one of despite what, 12-13 years of playing?

zaprobo

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 05:45:21 PM »
For me, I miss the detachment of "gear" from appearance.

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 08:46:02 PM »
In GW2 they do provide a method to combine the looks of one armor with the stats of another through the use of an item that's dropped frequently enough that I have like 60 so far.  However these won't work on armor that is at the level cap, you need an item that's only available at their proxy currency shop.  Fortunately they provide a way to earn proxy currency in game so you don't need to spend real money.
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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 08:35:47 AM »
For me, I miss the detachment of "gear" from appearance.

This has become somewhat common in MMO's actually.  It is still a rising trend but its seem to be catching on faster and faster.  A lot of people like the way their gear looks, but the gear is also effectively getting them killed because it just doesn't suit the level you are.  So companies like Blizzard and Bioware have added the ability to take you raid armor/high level gear.  And make it look like what ever you want, you just transfer the stats from that armor to the other one.  Makes PvPing a PITA.

JWBullfrog

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 03:15:21 PM »
Well, there is sort of a compromise system going on over in TSW. Your appearance and your stats are completely (with an exception I'll come back to) seperated. Nothing you wear effects how tough you are. That is all handled by the stats you put points into and the talismans (non-visible) that you wear.
Yes, you do have to upgrade your talismans as you progress but I've found that they are given out as rewards often enough. Also, if you choose to brave their crafting system, you can make your own. In either case, you never see them.
The only exception to this are your weapons which are always visible and can (with modifications) affect your stats.
 
I know it's not a game for everyone, just mentioning.
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Tenzhi

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 05:38:11 AM »
I never really considered myself to be a major crafter in CoH.  But by the end I managed to streamline a specific set recipes I could churn out that would net me roughly 100-150 million INF a day with only about 10 minutes of effort a day.  That's not even counting any big loot I'd get in drops to make even more INF.  This almost trivial amount of crafting allowed me to easily equip all of my alts with decent enhancements and eventually get multiple purple/PvP IO sets for my mains.

Up until the last year I never had a single character who had 100+ million Inf at any given time.  I'm not sure if they upped rare salvage drop rates, but before that last year there were often times I'd be grinding through missions for hours on end without seeing a single rare salvage drop (and when I did it wasn't always one of the expensive bits).  People were doing things with Tickets to get salvage and recipes, but I could never accrue them quickly enough for that to be worthwhile.  When there were Hero/Villain merits I eventually got around to checking out where to spend them (and had a heck of a time locating the entrance and then the vendor itself inside the place) only to find out that the prices were predictably out of my meager range not to mention that the offerings were woefully incomplete.  And I never had enough regular merits on any given character to afford anything of note from *those* ridiculously overpriced vendors.

However, in the earlier days of sets, while recipes of all sorts were far more plentiful, over a gratuitous length of time I managed to setup a single character almost exactly how I wanted it (minus a couple of Regen/Recovery Uniques which were far too costly for me).  It took many days of chewing up minions in Founders Falls hoping for the elusive orange bit of salvage to appear, and trying to remember which of those bits I was actually going to need for the crafting annoyance lest I have to inefficiently repurchase something I had gotten via drop and then sold.  Unfortunately that character was a Toggle-Man inspired build and the setup was necessarily focused on Recovery and Endurance bonuses.  He didn't kill most things fast, and he could easily get in over his head, but he rarely ran out of Endurance despite running as many toggles as I could acquire.

So, yeah, the only good experiences I had with crafted sets were the hypothetical constructions I made in Mids. 
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 10:56:27 AM »
CoH's system was a little wonky, but I loved it.

I kinda agree with Tenzhi that outright losing benefits from your enhancements as you levelled was dumb.  The way generic IOs functioned should've been how TOs/DOs/SOs worked.

However, this was, and is, my sole complaint with the system.  I enjoyed IOs when they were released, and I crafted the hell out of them when they were still new and market prices were still cheap (few people had hundreds of millions of inf).  The ability to use my enhancements without fear of them suddenly becoming useless was a vast, vast improvement over having to struggle with enhancement obsolescence, to the point where I eventually started selling any standard enhancements I picked up to NPCs in order to fund the purchase of more invention salvage.

Even with nothing but generic IOs, I was able to feel appropriately strong, was never really hard up for money (though I was never fantastically wealthy either), and felt that I was contributing to my team unless teamed with people running tricked out IO-set builds, or who were loaded up with things like Hami-Os.  Further, my enhancements never bothered my appearance, and within the limits of the costume parts available to me, I could always look JUST the way I wanted.

That was the beautiful thing about CoH's gear system.

So far, few games have ever let me have that level of customization.  Sure, there are games that let you separate a piece of gear from its stat bonuses, or allow you to graft the looks of one piece of equipment onto the stats of another, but it always feels like a poor substitute for the sheer versatility and flexibility of CoH's costume creation system.  Thus far, only Champions Online even comes close (and to be honest, it's actually a bit better in some ways - easier to create asymmetrical characters, for instance, even if it is more cartoony.)

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 01:07:00 PM »
I would run a tank or two in AE to get tickets for rare salvage and sell at Wents for big money.  I was happy a lot of folks did not know running AE could just net the salvage from tickets  ;)  Made a bunch of cash off that.

Also, in the early days, I would buy up cheap lvl 50 SOs on the market and sell to a store for extra cash...much slower, but kept my low to mid level toons up to date.
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LadyShin

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 12:34:19 PM »
I would run a tank or two in AE to get tickets for rare salvage and sell at Wents for big money.  I was happy a lot of folks did not know running AE could just net the salvage from tickets  ;)  Made a bunch of cash off that.

Also, in the early days, I would buy up cheap lvl 50 SOs on the market and sell to a store for extra cash...much slower, but kept my low to mid level toons up to date.

For some reason I wasn't able to run AE events (even as a premium account), so I was never able to capitalize on the extra cash..  :(

On top of that, I let the Blockbuster Event IO set(s?) slip out of my hands.  :gonk:
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Kistulot

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 10:06:16 PM »
Overwhelming Force's no KB with Solar Flare on a Peacebringer was the most sick thing I've ever seen in my life. Fully IO'd out, on a team with an Emp and a Time Manipulation character...

oooooh the memories...
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Sailboat

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Re: Man I Miss COH's attitude about gear ...
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 01:55:16 PM »
Overwhelming Force's no KB with Solar Flare on a Peacebringer was the most sick thing I've ever seen in my life. Fully IO'd out, on a team with an Emp and a Time Manipulation character...

oooooh the memories...

Heh.  Try Overwhelming Force's -KB proc in Tornado on a Stormie.  Auto-hit Tornado.  It made the 'Nado stay in place (mostly) instead of jumping around to new targets; it would just sit on someone and repeatedly hammer them to the floor while stacking disorient and buzz-sawing their hit points away.  It was easily permed.  It could not be killed or targeted.

I tried to make a Stormie in a couple of pen'n'paper roleplaying games and each time the GM was aghast at the idea that any system might let a player have a self-targeting, auto-hit, big-damage, AoE, unkillable, permanent, control pet. 

Too overpowered, I was told.  I wasn't allowed to have it as my ONLY power.  And Storm had plenty of OTHER powers.

:(