Ko's Twitter 'Rant' About #COH, #SaveCOH, and What the Community is Becoming...

[Samuraiko]

This past Saturday, I posted a 'rant' on Twitter that came out of reading the comments section on a gaming site in which, as per usual lately, the closure of COH came up. Said comments (on both sides) being rather negative, I found myself posting the following:

<rant on>The #COH community has long since been acknowledged as mature and friendly, a generally classy bunch...
Generally, I'm proud to be part of it. But there are times lately when I'm not so sure.
Am I angry with @NCsoftGames and @NCsoft for killing my game? Yes. But that's where my anger is directed - THEM.
Do I want @ArenaNet, @Carbine_Studios, Guild Wars, and Wildstar to fail just because of my anger? Absolutely not.
And these days, more than anything, I cringe each time I see #COH players commenting on other game articles because it's always so NEGATIVE.
Because for all the positive momentum that #SaveCOH built - this unmitigated bashing and bilespewing is killing it.
It's why so many other gamers look at us with a mix of disdain, disgust, and pity. We've sunk to a level that we normally never would have.
And it needs to stop. There has to be a better way. I don't know what it is. But there has to be one.
And I'm sure there are #COH players who are going to unfollow me or deem me a 'traitor' for these posts. So be it.
But even if the game comes back... it's going to take an even greater miracle to bring back the community that made #COH great.
That's all I wanted to say. <rant off>

On Sunday, I followed it up with:

Re: my #COH 'rant' last night - first off, I'm glad to see that a lot of people actually agreed with me (and thank you for the RTs).
Also, re: my #COH rant - for the record, no, @NCsoftGames and @NCSOFT will never be getting another dime from me.
Do I mention #COH while I play other games? Sure, if it's appropo (or if I do something dumb like forgetting I can't fly)...
... in fact, in @lotro, virtually everyone in our kinship on Gladden is a former #COH player. But we don't spam server channels about #COH.

I know I have a lot of followers on Twitter (many of whom played COH), and since posting those, yes, people have apparently unfollowed me, although no one has outright refuted me for saying any of this. And a couple of folks supported the idea of me sharing it here.

So, here it is. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm not naming names, I'm not saying any one person is to blame. I'm just saying that this is what I see. And I don't like it. At ALL. We're better than this, guys.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[downix]

I've run into a lot of that, and it is disheartening indeed.

[MakoMako]

As far as I'm concerned, NCSoft will not be getting another dime from me in any sense. This isn't to say any of the games it publishes are bad, but this is the only way that I, as a consumer, am capable of making my opinion heard without coming off as hypocritical. (Kinda like the masses of people that love bashing on Microsoft and how monopolizing their company is, while booting up Windows, signing onto MSN messenger, and logging into Microsoft Internet Explorer.)

I don't doubt that Guild Wars 2 is a fantastic game. And if it ever changes hands, I will play it undoubtedly. But I'm sorry, I just have trouble when it comes down to someone expressing their disgust of a company while... Still paying them? It gives that company no reason to listen to what we have to say.

[LT. Couper]

I can't agree more. We can't give up hope and lower ourselves to this sort of level.

<Insert Motivational Speach; Attempt #1>

In-game, whenever we were defeated, we have always had the courage to get back up, (or we've had a teammate there to rez us and keep us from staying down) to work off that xp debt, and get back in the fight. Heroes face impossible odds. This is no different.

[Kaos Arcanna]

I don't knock anyone's choices as to where they game or what they spend their money on. 

That being said, it will be a cold day in heck before NcSoft gets a penny of my money again.

I don't see as many comments about COH in DC Online or Champions ... though to be honest I haven't played Champions much lately.

[JaguarX]

This past Saturday, I posted a 'rant' on Twitter that came out of reading the comments section on a gaming site in which, as per usual lately, the closure of COH came up. Said comments (on both sides) being rather negative, I found myself posting the following:

On Sunday, I followed it up with:

I know I have a lot of followers on Twitter (many of whom played COH), and since posting those, yes, people have apparently unfollowed me, although no one has outright refuted me for saying any of this. And a couple of folks supported the idea of me sharing it here.

So, here it is. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm not naming names, I'm not saying any one person is to blame. I'm just saying that this is what I see. And I don't like it. At ALL. We're better than this, guys.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Yeah. It's good to see people that isnt afraid to speak exactly what is on their mind and calling stuff as they see it. Good stuff. But yeah I think what you have said came up a few times here and I think it's been reeled in by the mods a little lately.


And yeah, MakoMako, I one of my friends have major beef with Google and refuse to use any of their products or anything that have anythign to do with them. She said the same thing. What is the point of bitching moaning and groaning about a company yet still running back to use the same products that is causing the bitching moaning and groaning? Of course she got all types of names on the old forum but one thing I can respect her for, is never changing who she is regardless of what others say.

[pewlagon]

I agree with 'Ko 100%. I'm being forced to make life alter decision atm and I could blame my former employer for everything, but the fact is I met a lot of wonderful people there and don't want to see any of them in my position. The one bad element that was there was removed recently and I had a sence of satisfaction, but I have not gone any where near the store or attempted to rub anyone's face in it. I have taken the high road and decided to move my life forward, much in the same way I have done with NcSoft.

I know one of the world designers for A-Net and her passion for creating is amazing and infectious. A-Net is a great bunch of devs and don't deserve the disdain afforded by their publishing arm. Besides, their contracts afford them some amazing backbone should NcSoft attempt the same thing they did with Paragon. Carbine Studios, I know one of the voices of Wildstar. Again, a company I have personal ties, but owned by NcSoft. I wish them nothing but success in their venture and pray the game is not forced out early due to pressure. I do not want to see American jobs affected because the companies happen to be under an unsavory umbrella.

As to NcSoft titles, I may not be as vocal as some people, but I will speak with my wallet. B&S won't see a dime from me, but I won't actively bash anyone playing it. A game is a game and to each their own stress relief. I have nothing against educating players on NcSoft's track record, but actively seeking out and bashing developers, harrassing them, and such... That is not the high road.

Developing, creating, sticking together.... These are ideals we should represent and what we should adhere to. It is ok to be angry at the actions that ended our game, but that portion of this has come and gone. We need to move forward. Work with V.V. on the Wild Card Team, Help the Phoenix Project (and Heroes & Villains), support each other when comfort is needed, but please let our voices be for something positive.

[Palladiamors]

Anyone who unfollowed you for that is part of the problem,  not part of the solution.  Probably people who have done exactly what you were speaking out against,  and didn't like being brought to bear for it.

This trip isn't going to get any easier.  People are angry,  and I get that.  But lashing out mindlessly doesn't do us any favors.  It undermines what we've built,  that sense that we as a playerbase are more mature and accepting.  If people keep it up then we'll just be another whiney fanbase of a dead game,  and that isn't what we want or need.

[MakoMako]

"The one bad element that was there was removed recently..." -Pewl

That's the thing exactly. I made it clear to everyone when CoH was announced as being shut down that NCSoft's decisions on the matter would prove whether or not they could be trusted with my money ever again.

If NCSoft just sold the IP to interested parties, then I probably wouldn't have even an ounce of disgust towards them, and probably would've continued paying them for other things.

For now? I'm voting with my wallet. So long as it has an NCSoft logo on it, I will not be buying it. If people claim this is hurting ArenaNet or whatever... All I can say is that if NCSoft really thinks that the answer is to fire them, then it's probably for the best, as they'll only get treated like crap and scapegoated for other problems, if NCSoft will blame ArenaNet for its own mistakes.

[Arcana]

We're better than this, guys.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "we."  Overall, I found the CoH player community to be a good one, and a better one than average when it came to suppressing internet-amplified brain damage.  However, "we" never were immune from having members that were various amounts of deranged.

There are a lot of people constantly on the lookout for excuses to be asshats.  Some of them self-identify with being City of Heroes players.  We may not need them and may not want them, but we will never be free of them, as will no other gaming community.

Unfortunately, every community is judged in large part by its most visible members, and its often the case that the most visible ones are the least palatable.  This is particularly true now, when there is less opportunity for more positive elements to compare to.  The only thing you can do is to visibly reject their actions, to make sure that people know they aren't representative elements of the greater community. 

Just remember this: what makes them children is reacting with 100% anger and 0% brains.  What makes them asshats is continuing to do so, over and over again, long past the point of having any real point or purpose.  We should reject them, but we should not dwell on them.  We should not become the people that waste time being angry at the people who waste time being nothing but angry.

The most important thing about irony is to try very hard to avoid being a poster child of it.

[Electric-Knight]

I was going to reply with something very similar to what Arcana expressed... so, in a warm fuzzy glow of good ol' times, I am, instead, just going to say...
Arcana wonderfully expressed my views on this matter.
 
Big surprise.


Oh, fine, I'll just add...
Indeed, all it takes is one or a handful of people wearing our t-shirt, making some unnecessary noise about something or other in an inappropriate way for other people to see them as us (and/or us as them).
While that is seemingly an inevitable pattern for people to follow, I don't get caught up in it myself.
And, as I always said on the forums... every civilization has its waste/sewage.

[Rotten Luck]

I agree with you.  I don't follow anyone, but I never posted a negative about any game or group.  My anger where it's belongs on the shoulders of the NCsoft CEO and Board of directors who chose to cut CoH.  The Devs of the other games had no say in that. 

Those Devs are just like our Paragon studios, people doing what they love and have to follow orders of the Ogers in NCsoft HQ.

[houtex]

Well, for my part, I hope that I've not come across as bashing NCSoft except for a business decision issue.  I don't think I've spewed vitriol about the situation.  I get it.  I don't like it, but I get it.

RE: spending a dime on NCsoft, well, they don't make anything I want anymore.  Therefore, I will spend my money elsewhere.  Simple as that.  If they DID make something... that would be difficult, but if it were simply that good, then yes, I might 'cross the line'.  I kinda hope I don't have to do that.  And always in the back of my mind is the "if I do stuff, they'll just take it away too."  So it's likely I'd steer clear as a matter of my own principle and desire to not get hurt again.

But wishing the other studios ill will, and even NCSoft themselves, is just... bad karma, and I don't wish them badly, never have.  If I said words to that effect, they were far ago, and I've calmed down I'd think, since then.  I do seriously think it would be best for Carbine and ArenaNet and the rest to somehow extricate themselves and their products from NCSoft's grasp, as I do not believe NCSoft will survive much longer.  This is simply my belief.  They are run very badly, it seems.  As such... do you want to go down with a sinking ship?  Do you have a choice in the matter?  Those are the questions.  Whether I'm right or not, time will tell, and that's all we can truly know for sure.

But never, ever, do I wish any of the aforementioned ill will.  I simply wish a little sanity would take over in NCSoft's management, sure.  But no ill will.  That people do?  Kinda sad, really.  Be mad, ok, fine, I am a bit as well.  But don't be vengeful.  It's not a good thing (tm).

/And what EK said about Sewage.  Unfortunately, that's a truth.  Sigh...

[Nebularian]

Sigh,

Going to have to say I don't agree with you, Ko.  Not because you took a stand...not a problem with that, but you referred to "negative" comments without giving the context.

Do I want other NCSoft games to fail?  It would not break my heart.   But that is just my opinion.  I vote with my wallet, as some one else on here stated. I will not give a single dime to NCSoft...and I DO "SUGGEST" that others do the same.   There is nothing wrong with this...nothing evil or demeaning.   It is simple consumer action...nothing more.

Now if the "negative" comments were directed at people who decide to play the game, then that is another matter.    If people disagree with my stand and decide to continue funding NCSoft, that is their right!  I may think they are wrong...but I am just as sure they think I am as well.

No, as a consumer that has been, in my opinion, done dirty by NCSoft, I do not believe that there is anything wrong with me, as a consumer, doing what I can to convince others (through reason and calm discussion) to join with me in doing what ever can be done, legally, to hurt NCSoft financially.   It is NOT okay, however, to lash out at other consumers that do not agree with me.

[Samuraiko]

Sigh,

Going to have to say I don't agree with you, Ko.  Not because you took a stand...not a problem with that, but you referred to "negative" comments without giving the context.

Do I want other NCSoft games to fail?  It would not break my heart.   But that is just my opinion.  I vote with my wallet, as some one else on here stated. I will not give a single dime to NCSoft...and I DO "SUGGEST" that others do the same.   There is nothing wrong with this...nothing evil or demeaning.   It is simple consumer action...nothing more.

Now if the "negative" comments were directed at people who decide to play the game, then that is another matter.    If people disagree with my stand and decide to continue funding NCSoft, that is their right!  I may think they are wrong...but I am just as sure they think I am as well.

No, as a consumer that has been, in my opinion, done dirty by NCSoft, I do not believe that there is anything wrong with me, as a consumer, doing what I can to convince others (through reason and calm discussion) to join with me in doing what ever can be done, legally, to hurt NCSoft financially.   It is NOT okay, however, to lash out at other consumers that do not agree with me.

By 'negative', I'm referring to people who bash not only on NCsoft, but on everything else - Carbine, ArenaNet, people who don't understand what the game means to us... and then they get sucked into arguments with trolls and become nearly indistinguishable from the trolls themselves.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[General Idiot]

I'll be honest, I want NCSoft to fall. I really do. And I wish that didn't have to involve some honestly pretty decent games falling with them, but the fact of the matter is with the way the company seems to be run it's going to. The further down they get, the more good people are going to get cut loose to protect the ones who're dragging them down.

[Colette]

Congratulations on using you right to free speech responsibly and reasonably. The Internet is a woderful tool for establishing the good or bad name of the people and organizations in our world. NCSoft was very foolish to so provoke us for a quick buck.

[Minotaur]

I think most people have been fairly mature about it. I've largely restricted my comments to correcting what I see as factual inaccuracies posted on other sites (CoH wasn't profitable, F2P was a disaster etc).

NCSoft will never see another penny of my money. Do I hope they fail ? yes, but only because I feel a firm administering a bankruptcy will not have the hangups about selling on the IP that NCSoft do. Do I expect them to fail ? probably not. Could they have avoided this ? yes, release the IP for a decent amount of money and there would have been very few hard feelings.

[Knightslayer]

I think most people have been fairly mature about it. I've largely restricted my comments to correcting what I see as factual inaccuracies posted on other sites (CoH wasn't profitable, F2P was a disaster etc).

Pretty much what I've been doing.
Other than that, NCSoft and I have parted ways - it's been months now since I've logged into my NCSoft master account - for all I know they could've banned it by now.
ArenaNet did a lot of great things, just like Cryptic and Paragon before them, and I have no doubt Carbine will do the same - sadly, they will be things I'm very unlikely to personally experience due to their affiliation with NCSoft.
Will I bash the companies themselves, or the people who play those games? Nope, not at all.
I refuse to have anything more to do with a company that has chosen to make it so blatantly obvious that it doesn't give a damn about any of its customers - had CoH been shutdown for a valid reason I'd have mourned it, sure - but I'd have moved on to the next game without any hard feelings, good chance it would've even been GW2.
However that's not the case, instead their reason pretty much comes down to "Just because we can" - which I find to be an unforgiveable slap in the face to everyone who has supported them over the years.

Arcana pretty much nailed it, every community has its rotten apples, some are troublemakers similar to the people who attend rallies just to pick fights, while others are borderline delusional, to the point where I think they are blaming NCSoft for every bad thing that's ever happened in their lives.
Minotaur's also right though, 90% of the posts I've seen are reasonable and polite - it's just that the negative ones tends to stand out more, something most newspapers and the media in general seem very familiar with.
Post three articles about people valiantly saving someone alongside one about someone commiting some atrocity, then see which one gets talked about the most.

[Captain Electric]

You've always been a class act, Samuraiko, and you'll get no argument from me by suggesting that people maintain their composure.

When we speak out in the comments sections of news sites and blogs, in forums and in games, we're frequently tossed into the same hat and regarded by the wider gaming community as members of a collective, not as individuals who only represent our own opinions. Maybe some of you think that's fair and maybe some of you don't, but that's a reputation and a situation that we earned through the SaveCoH movement.

We're spread around now, in other games and projects, but the purchase of City of Heroes and its IP, or the creation of new worlds, both are facets of mammoth undertakings that could take years to bring to complete fruition. If we want to see these things come to pass, then we should stop being vocally demoralized fans of the past, and start being excited and vocal fans for the future. Let the people doing the work know that you're still here and watching. Bug them for updates. Cheer them on before and after they reach important milestones. Bitch at them when you don't like something. Bicker amongst each other about game play mechanics.

Edited to remove like four paragraphs of babbling.