MMORPG.COM / MMOFTW - the top stories of 2012

[dwturducken]

You mean like this?

*Captain-Electric sighs wistfully and longs for the good old days...*

Yipe!  Jack-in-Irons in Founders!?

[TimtheEnchanter]

That's kind of interesting about Toast. I mean, it's terrible, and I feel terrible, even though I was one of the many trying to keep us on the non-racist side of that line, but the back story does put things into perspective. I feel pretty terrible about it, now, to be honest.

I got to talk to Toast in PM on the official forums near the end, after a really big overnight hellstorm that erupted and only died down when BP and TR showed up to lighten the mood. I wish there had been a grievance statement before leaving Titan, because it might've helped get people back in line. Toast tried to post in that thread about it, but it got largely ignored.

The jist of it is, the concept of Kibun that we got from online sources, was waaaaay off target, and much more subjective than it appeared. I compared it to trying to do Karate after just reading a book about it. It's far more subjective and probably would've just made us all look foolish if the idea had been taken further. And while we thought it was implying that we had been dishonored by NCsoft's actions, really all it was saying was NCsoft is a bunch of honor-less pigs. And that certainly wouldn't get us anywhere.

Kibun is also probably just as irrelevant to corporations there, as religious morality is to businesses in the West. So really all it was doing was ruffling the feathers of the wrong people. Apparently Toast isn't the only one who quit Titan over racially-charged overtones. There have also been some jokes flying around that looked pretty nasty when taken out of context.

[Captain Electric]

What Toast is misguided about is the kind of organization that Titan represents: it doesn't. Tony and others have reminded us of this many times, during the time that they've been gracious enough to host all of us within their forums.

The SaveCoH effort has been made up of many different efforts, some of them more tightly organized and some of them more loosely organized. By fans of City of Heroes. This is no different than if I had labeled all City of Heroes players on the forums racists, because I discovered racists on the forums--or perhaps more analogously, some folks who weren't racist at all, but just some people who were observably culturally naive but otherwise completely well-meaning. I also believe that BurntToast is aware that there are significantly more than 100 people who have participated and are participating in the SaveCOH efforts. So while I sympathize with some of the problems I'm certain he's had with racism during his lifetime, I also see that he has made a very nasty claim about thousands of fans of City of Heroes. Decent people, including folks who have stood up against racism and don't deserve this behavior to be leveled in their direction.

Don't be fooled. Specifically, don't be fooled by BurntToast. This isn't about an entire organization doing something wrong; it's about specific people. They ought to know who they are, and they ought to feel ashamed, but I'm afraid that some of them probably don't. If you weren't one of them, then you don't have anything to feel terrible about.

[Burnt Toast]

Tim and Captain Electric - Thank You for stating what you stated.


A history of my involvement in Coh/SaveCoH/Titan:


Prior to the announcement I like many others used Titan services for MIDs and the Wiki. When the announcement happened I came to the forums to see what was what. It was through these forums that I became involved in the SaveCoH movement: Rally, Zwillion Hero March, ExtraLife etc. It was because of SaveCoH that I made a twitter account and began tweeting everything SaveCoH I could.


Fast Forward to October 2012. I was deeply involved on these forums as well as the main forums for two reasons: 1. Trying to raise money for ExtraLife (It is a great cause and I was so happy that myself and a friend contributed to the $9,500+ raised.) 2. I believed in Titan/SaveCoH and wanted to help bring back the game I love(d) for over 7 years (3 accounts subbed for 7 years 9 months; except for a 2 month break after Issue 7).


While I was in the middle of pushing ExtraLife a topic came on these boards of doing a/some kibuns to NCSoft. It is no secret that I am  a Korean American (the issue came up in September when someone made a racist comment regarding Koreans). I sent a few kindly worded PMs to people asking them not to go forth with the kibun...and was basically ignored. I was THIS close to abandoning ExtraLife because I did not want to be affiliated with a group that would do something which I, as a Korean, consider to be extremely racist and demeaning. I didn't though...because I believed in what we were doing for ExtraLife and wanted to make as much of a difference for the families and patients helped by ExtraLife/Children's Miracle Network.


I quietly tried talking people out of the kibun by speaking with a few people I "knew" here at Titan, but was basically told "it's not racist." I always found that insulting..to tell a Korean that using Korean culture against Koreans...isn't racist. Shortly thereafter I found out that certain key people at Titan were/are working on an emu. So now I am involved with a group who has some serious racist motives and who are also condoning something that if I were involved with...I could lose my job. At this point the choice was very simple...leave Titan - and I did. I stopped participating in the forums, I deleted my twitter account, etc.


So then all I had were the official forums...which I have always been a poster on (on one account or another). I continued to post on the official forums and noticed a huge trend - anyone not WITH Titan was against them. People who did not believe every "fact" or every "someone told me to relay this" statement were now tr0lls, NCSoft fanbois, or even better NCSoft employees. I have been called many things and the name calling didn't actually phase me...it made me giggle. What bothered me was some of the misinformation that was coming from supposed Titan higher ups.


Anyways my melting point with Titan and some of it's members came the night Tim referenced. There was another heated debate on the official forums and a person who claimed to be a Titan higher up at the time, who knew I was Korean, and who knew my reasons why I was against the kibun of NCSoft came on...and put my name in red...as a means of kibuning... ME! I get that as Non-Koreans most people don't understand the significance of a kibun...nor the true venomous nature of them...and while I should have just ignored them...I went after them in a not so appropriate way (Not inappropriate enough to be modded I might add).


So while I do not participate in these forums by posting...I do look at them every now and then to see what is going on. For the record I LOVED CoH. It was the ONLY MMO I played more than a week. I recently told a friend who has been trying to get me to join them in ANY MMO "I am not an MMOer...I was a CoHer." I have tried DCUO, CO, GW2, TSW, SWTOR, etc etc...none of which I have played more than 2 settings because...they are not fun to me. Unlike a lot of the people who I see who came and left CoH over the years...I was a truly devoted fan. I had 3 accounts from March 2005 up until the very end - all of them VIP/subbed except for 2 months after Issue 7 (I moved and needed a new computer). So no...I am not anti-CoH. No I am not anti-NCSoft. No I cannot stand side by side with Titan in any of their attempts at Hail Mary's or Plan Z's because personally some of the key players involved in these things have (and continue to) disgust me with their anti-Korean rhetoric and "plans."


Also a HUGE pet peeve of mine...since I am laying it out there - when I see someone call NCSoft NCSoftcore, NCSucks, etc etc...it doesn't come across as cute or funny; but rather childish. Same goes when people reference Blade & Soul and think calling it any pseudo pornographic name....tacky..not clever; especially considering CoH had just as many "risque" toons running around the streets of Paragon.


So in closing...it's fine if you don't agree with me. I will continue to read stories on the web as they pop up and state facts as I know them to be instead of hearsay or speculation. I'm not looking for an apology for the numerous people who offended me because of my ethnicity and culture; because frankly I wouldn't believe them


I truly do hope one day CoH comes back, but I cannot be a part of the process for reasons stated above.






___________________
Oh and CE regarding your post (It was posted as I was typing mine and I saw it when I hit preview)....Titan forums have not attracted more than 75 people on an average day since December 1 (The night CoH closed down when 300+ people were here). There are not THOUSANDS of people working on either Plan Z and there are not THOUSANDS of people active here. Many people have simply moved on....especially after no results came out of the Unity Rally. When I stated 100.. I was being generous as on any given day these forums are lucky to attract 60 - 70 unique visitors a day. This is the type of stuff I comment on in web articles... SaveCoH, Plan Zs, etc are not HUGE things with a HUGE community...it saddens me more people are not involved, but I also know there are a plethora of reasons why:
Lack of organization
Perceived racism
Lack of faith in Titan
Sometimes Titan can come across as being a rainbows only place; where dissent is met with venomous posts.
People have moved on to other games
Real Life
Etc Etc


So while I do applaud; those who have not personally offended me, I also feel it important to interject reality and honesty into comments... Save CoH is a small group of people trying to do whatever they can to bring back their game...not thousands and not even hundreds of participants.

[corvus1970]

Toast,

You have taken a rather ugly molehill and earth-moved it into a mountain. You have taken a small group of people and used them as an excuse to rage and hate and broad-brush an entire community, and you are becoming like unto that which you despise. You are becoming increasingly obsessive, increasingly hateful, and increasingly petty, and it speaks ill of you. Furthermore, it taints and colors the perception of you, and soon nobody will recall the positive contributions you once made.

But hey, perhaps you don't care about that today, and perhaps you never will. But I bet you that you can certainly find better uses of your time, rather than continuing to allow a few select folks to rent an undue amount of space in your head.

Do yourself a favor and let. it. GO.

[Captain Electric]

Toast, I sincerely apologize for the facts I got wrong in my two posts above--including the idea that you're motivated toward sabotage. I actually do believe that you'll believe me when I apologize for that. I also remember very well all of the posts you made in defense of saving City of Heroes and trying to change NCSoft's mind. I was there, I saw how hard you tried, I was listening. And thank you. You tried very hard to help. Your efforts alongside us at that time do not deserve to go forgotten.

However--and I'm sure you knew a 'however' was coming--I think I'm right about some things. A lot of the people around here didn't participate in the kibun research because they were too busy writing other kinds of letters, or working on Plan Z and other things; or because they specifically did not think it was right (and I know that a few people managed to get through all of that time without even realizing it was a thing). Most of us here are really great people, with big hearts and not a bit of racism, sexism, or any ism that deserves contempt. While you're out there spreading facts, I hope I can convince you, here, now, to spread all the facts equally. Including the good ones.

I personally believe that there are some people here who should apologize to you, whether you'll believe them or not. Because it's the right thing to do. In most cases, I don't think it's because they were consciously racist in motive; but when good people goof, they still say "sorry".

But you've gone overboard in places (upon re-reading my post for errors, I honestly think this is a massive understatement). I think you owe some people here the City of Heroes community, collectively, an apology too.

Those who know me, know that I'm an optimist. I don't expect either side to apologize.

[corvus1970]

However--and I'm sure you knew a 'however' was coming--I think I'm right about some things. A lot of the people around here didn't participate in the kibun research because they were too busy writing other kinds of letters, or working on Plan Z and other things

Indeed. I came into this effort rather late, and saw none of that Kibun research stuff. I saw some of its aftermath to be sure, but I wasn't actually around until Toast had already started to hate on Titan, and had become a tsunami of negativity on the official forums.

[dwturducken]

Toast,

You have taken a rather ugly molehill and earth-moved it into a mountain. You have taken a small group of people and used them as an excuse to rage and hate and broad-brush an entire community, and you are becoming like unto that which you despise. You are becoming increasingly obsessive, increasingly hateful, and increasingly petty, and it speaks ill of you. Furthermore, it taints and colors the perception of you, and soon nobody will recall the positive contributions you once made.

But hey, perhaps you don't care about that today, and perhaps you never will. But I bet you that you can certainly find better uses of your time, rather than continuing to allow a few select folks to rent an undue amount of space in your head.

Do yourself a favor and let. it. GO.

That's a bit excessive and kind of what he was talking about. I can see where he has points, and I can see where they are off. I, for one, thought the kibun idea was a good one that went horribly wrong, but that's coming from the perspective of a white male American (former) serviceman who struggled  to not be what people expected of any of those things while I was visiting other countries, particularly Asian countries, including Japan and South Korea. The first thing I always found out how to do was correctly say "please" and "thank you" for as many situations as I could retain. I still, surprisingly, can remember quite a bit of it, though none of the actual Korean words.

Yes, the whole kibun thread made me very uncomfortable. I do recall you asking for consideration. I stopped following it when it became clear that nothing short of a redname was going to rein it in, but there wasn't anything overtly reportable at that point.

One thing that bears pointing out, though. Acknowledging and using cultural differences is not inherently racist. I will grant that there is a fine line, and we do cross it, but there are things that just are different. Be very careful which vending machine you put money in when visiting Tokyo, for instance. The beef that we have with NCSoft WRT Blade and Soul is that the majority of games that are aimed at a western market do not implement "jiggle physics" nearly as prominently as we are seeing in the promo videos for that game. South Korean gaming culture is a complex and nuanced thing, far moreso than nearly any other country/region. What I actually found more offensive about the whole "Bits and Tits" movement was the idea of using it deliberately to appeal to the worst of American society, the Westboro Baptist Church, if you will.

Also, any active reverse engineering is being done in full respect for the pertinent laws. The thread about the PMs for an emu is with tongue pretty firmly planted in cheek, though it wasn't so much like that at first.

[Burnt Toast]

This will be my only response to this thread. I figure maybe if I reply it will give some insight into things a little more.


You have NO idea what a kibun is, but I am going to educate you on why it is not an "ugly molehill." To put it into Non-Korean terms so that you understand the significant impact:


Imagine you are being held down by two people...spitting in your face calling you every name in the book. (Let that sink in for a second). Now while these two people are holding you down spitting in your face...they bring your mother into the room...and start hitting her...and telling her that she is getting this because YOU are a coward. THAT is the impact of a kibun. It is the most demeaning thing you can do to a Korean...and that shame; shames you AND your family....because YOU are a coward. It is not calling someone's Mom a bad name...or even calling someone a coward...it IS the most disgusting thing you can do to a Korean - many who have committed suicide in order to escape the shame or the backlash from their families. It is not a mole hill..it is a mountain. I explained this to SEVERAL people here and was told basically "We will do what we have to do to make NCSoft hear us." That is WRONG and disgusting.


I am not judging ALL of Titan, but I also cannot be involved in any projects because these people who did this...and even the person who kibuned me...are leaders in every past and present project.  Now tell me..could you work with them? Really? I could be a jerk (because trust me I get called that a lot by many Titans) and state their names, but they know who they are and I hope one day they feel ashamed for their actions in general and towards me.




FYI: Don't tell me to "let it go" when you have no idea what "it" is. When you can fully understand the shame and vile-nous of a kibun - come talk to me. My father was forced to leave Korea due to his political actions....because he "shamed" his family by protesting for equality. My mother was beaten by her friends because of her actions...and when she was battered...my father was told "Take your prize and go." THAT is the result of a kibun. I have never seen or spoken to my grandparents or any of my relatives since we left...because they are not allowed to speak to us....so please don't tell me or any other person involved in a kibun - to let it go.


And FYI I am not obsessed with Titan/SaveCoH. I come and read the topics to see what's going on. I haven't posted here in over 2 months. I post in articles online when I see blatant misinformation regarding CoH/SaveCoH. On average Titan/CoH/SaveCoH take up about 2 minutes of my day (except for today when I saw people talking about me specifically. )

Toast,

You have taken a rather ugly molehill and earth-moved it into a mountain. You have taken a small group of people and used them as an excuse to rage and hate and broad-brush an entire community, and you are becoming like unto that which you despise. You are becoming increasingly obsessive, increasingly hateful, and increasingly petty, and it speaks ill of you. Furthermore, it taints and colors the perception of you, and soon nobody will recall the positive contributions you once made.

But hey, perhaps you don't care about that today, and perhaps you never will. But I bet you that you can certainly find better uses of your time, rather than continuing to allow a few select folks to rent an undue amount of space in your head.

Do yourself a favor and let. it. GO.

[Ironwolf]

Here is the problem, when you are sensitive to an issue at times that issue becomes the lens you see the world through.

I am Cherokee and my people have a thing called the Trail of Tears http://ngeorgia.com/history/nghisttt.html, where they were forcably removed from their land by a sitting US President (Andrew Jackson) in violation of the Supreme Courts ruling.

They marched men, women and children during the winter over 1000 miles off their lands into the cold depths of winter. In the journey over 4,000 died.

Now some people hold to these things and use them to paint the white man as evil and hateful completely ignoring that many whites voted AGAINST this  (passed by one vote) and that the Supreme Court voted against it as well. This can feed hate and harms you far more than those you hate. I don't know you personally but I have seen your posts where you let people define you, where you let others take your honor.

Honor is not something you just lose. I have had times when people spoke of me with evil intent and I had a choice - let them speak with hate while I answer with dignity and let my life and how I live shame them or to let hate find a place in my heart as well as theirs. This world is full of those who hate and find fault and you can chose to fight ignorance with your heart and mind or be swept away with the tide as others are.

I don't know if you know of my people's customs but being humiliated by an enemy and not reacting in anyway is a sign of power and strength. It doesn't mean you don't fight, it means you don't take your foes hatred into your own heart and into your soul for want of a better word. The best way I have seen this put is by Miyamoto Musashi (A Book of Five Rings - Fire Book):

When you have mastered the Way of strategy, you can suddenly make your body like a rock, and ten thousand things cannot touch you. This is the body of a rock [Iwao no Mi] .

You will not be moved. This is the oral tradition. [Body like a rock means that as soon as a swordsman reaches the utmost world and is awakened spiritually; he is united with natural law. Like a rock, this law does not refer to either objects or materials. The meaning of the massive body of rock is an immovable place, an immovable mind. A mind which is free from other things, a natural, peaceful, free ranging mind].

[Illusionss]

Over-sensitivity for the lose.

God forbid anyone, ever even so much as make a comment noting the fact that cultural divides exist. There will also be no attempting to understand a cultural divide, or any honest discussion of same. To even admit in one's own head that these concepts exist is to be instantly branded "racist."

I have been online since 1997, and I have over the course of that time been called every name, every epithet, I have had my family and myself personally threatened with bodily harm [not recently, but just saying]. I have had my home address and phone number outed in an effort to induce real-world harm. I am sure many here can claim similar, for it is what happens if you interact on online forums. If you're online, and you have an opinion, you had best be ready for disagreements that many would happily carry into the real world. If they can induce someone to do the work for them, so much the better.

I am still out here, unbowed, psyche intact. This is because the opinions of fools mean less than nothing to me. If you are online you had better be bolted together very tightly, because psychological warfare can get very intense.

Oversensitivity will get you in trouble. And screaming "RACIST!" every time some idiot hurts your feelings makes you look pretty bad. It doesn't help your cause, it in fact overshadows it. What people remember is not the alleged insult, but the overreaction.

[Illusionss]

Ironwolf: I am Cherokee and my people have a thing called the Trail of Tears http://ngeorgia.com/history/nghisttt.html, where they were forcably removed from their land by a sitting US President (Andrew Jackson) in violation of the Supreme Courts ruling.

They marched men, women and children during the winter over 1000 miles off their lands into the cold depths of winter. In the journey over 4,000 died.

I'm sorry, Ironwolf. For real. There is no excuse for the things that happened to Native Americans back then, and many of us feel shame to even think of it. Its embarrassing to think that maybe Native Americans even now might think that in our hearts today, other Americans might condone those actions. I promise you that most of us dont. If we could somehow undo what happened, we would.

I dont see how the perpetrators can rest easy in their graves.

Peace to you and yours.

[pewlagon]

Sorry, but as far as Blade & Soul is concerned, it's the skimpy outfits coupled with the blatant advertising of the physics engine that disgusts me on it. YES, it's targeting a certain demographic, but for me (as part of that target demographic) it's just plain disgusting. That and the fact that soon after the announcement of CoH's closure, and to this day, my refund is being held up to be transferred into that specific game. I have yet to see dime one and they have all my information, but every time a handoff comes up (to another CS rep) I get, "We have this great game coming up... yada yada yada." Sorry that game deserves to get panned and I don't do so with flagrant name calling but rather tha backhanded way I'm being treated with it being thrown in my face.

Also, blanket labeling everyone is a horrendous response and unforgivable for me. I'm am the most unbiased person on this planet (with the exception of my disdain toward criminals.) I like the Titan Network because it gives me a sense that part of CoH is still alive. Did I like the stupid attack on Toast, no, it was uncalled for. Did I like being labeled a racist when I have a hard time talking to my own mother because she IS one, no way. Blanket labeling everyone is just as bad as singling someone out. Hate doesn't belong anywhere and CoH should have delivered that message clearly.

My YouTube editor was called some pretty lousy things on the CoH forums over the years, but that little group of "I Told You So" jerks can say whatever the heck they want. All they amount to is overaged bullies and any attempt at appologies will never be accepted by me, especially attempts at rationalizing said behavior.

[johnrobey]

Welcome back, Toast! (which perhaps erroneously assumes you'd left.)

On to the more general topic of cultural sensitivity and forums.   Personally, I found those last few weeks on the official forums to be hell.  I couldn't NOT check them out but was often dismayed at what I saw posted there.  Thus far (imo) Titan Network has managed to avoid most of that.

Back to I Burnt the Toast, I actually appreciated what you and others wrote about the Korean concept of kibun, since that was a term I'd never heard before, but while I am no sociologist or anthropologist, I suspect most cultures have concepts for shame and honor--and yes, I find it distressing that people sometimes kill themselves for such reasons (e.g. gay teenagers, etc.)   I felt there was an over emphasis on NCSoft being a foreign (i.e. not U.S.) corporation.   I felt there were those who wanted to better understand Korean culture to see whether that could help us persuade NCSoft not to kill CoH, but there was also a lot of venting in general over our collective dismay at CoH getting closed, and some of it did strike me as racist/nationalist.  It's part of why I haven't said much about the Colbert Nation movement: I think it would be great for Colbert Nation to take up our cause, but I'd hate for them to do so simply out of nationalistic feelings.

Perhaps I have a pollyanna prescription in my eye glasses, but I think the majority of people are able to look beyond cultural concepts of race and nationality to see the actual humans behind such facades/cultural overlays.  I don't want to say that culture isn't important; it is.  Nor do I wish to assert that the U.S. is free from prejudice; we're not and have a sizable population of people who still subscribe to such notions.

While I could be entirely wrong, I think NCSoft should be approached as a corporate culture, rather than a purely Korean one, though perhaps Korean culture is a greater factor than I realize.  Hoping we soon have this on track and that if there are any lingering feelings of nationalism/racism, they soon fade.  One of the things I liked best in CoH was having friends and SGmates from all over the world.  I loved it that despite individual and cultural differences, we all loved playing our superheroes and super villains.

[johnrobey]

Sorry, but as far as Blade & Soul is concerned, it's the skimpy outfits coupled with the blatant advertising of the physics engine that disgusts me on it. YES, it's targeting a certain demographic, but for me (as part of that target demographic) it's just plain disgusting. That and the fact that soon after the announcement of CoH's closure, and to this day, my refund is being held up to be transferred into that specific game. I have yet to see dime one and they have all my information, but every time a handoff comes up (to another CS rep) I get, "We have this great game coming up... yada yada yada."

Hmmm, I had a very different experience with NCSoft.  Not once did they try to hold on to my money or redirect me toward B&S or any other of their products; instead I got very good customer service; they even refunded my last purchase of paragon points (in addition to my annual subscription) with little hassle, even though I suspected that last PP purchase was outside the period they were refunding.  I did have to go thru the hassle of contacting them and getting my master NCSoft account working again--I think game closure had unexpected effects on billing/account records--but after that was done, no hassle, just professional, prompt, courteous and full refund.  Best of luck working with Customer Service.  I recommend you ask to be referred to a supervisor, since it took a supervisor on their side to fix things for me and to process my refund request.  Good luck!

[corvus1970]

Toast, I have read your response to me and it changes absolutely nothing about what I said. I stand by what I told you. If you are unwilling to step outside of your anger and see it for what it has become, then that is not my problem.

This will be my 2nd and final response to this sidebar. Any further posts in this thread by me will address the topic, and the topic alone. So, consider this my last word on the matter.

That's a bit excessive and kind of what he was talking about.

I'm sorry you think so, but I don't think its excessive at all.

You know people by how they act and what they say, and that is never truer than it is online, where the only actions we see are generally those that are typed out. I bore witness to his broad-brushing of Titan, and it gave me a very poor impression of the person behind the posts. Now that I know the genesis of it, it doesn't change my impression of his actions of late. Sure, I now understand the why, but I don't condone the reaction to it, nor shall I.

When you take anger and hate, and then regurgitate anger and hate in return, you become a mirror for it. In essence you can become like that which you hate. Anger can be useful, but it must be tempered with reason. What I see here is an anger that resists reason. It is not healthy, and it will not lead anywhere good.

[Colette]

Hello, Burnt Toast.

Well, this is a fine bit of irony. I've been hoping desperately that we'd find a Korean or Korean-American CoH player to help guide us all through the idiosyncracies of Korean culture and values, and someone who could get the message of our displeasure out there in Hangul. And here you are!

...except that for whatever reason, something to do with something called "kibun" that I have no clue about, except it's apparently very insulting, you're not interested in participating.

Toast, I can't speak for others here. I can speak for myself. I have no resentments against Koreans at all, beyond a certain cabal of tyrants who seem determined to transform the northern half of the place into some combination of Oceania, Tomainia, and Mordor. I've served alongside and under Koreans as a soldier.

Regarding NCSoft, I must state simply that they're inconsiderate jerks. They sold me a new powerset three days before they sent out the shutdown notice. Furthermore, after five years I happened to have my account lapsed when the shutdown hit without prior notice, and couldn't really play the game in its last months. Finally, rather than seeking to sell the property, they appear to want to lock it in a vault forever, alongside five other MMOs.

And they're replaced CoH with a vulgar, demeaning titty-porn game. That is why I created the "NCSoftcore" label, and I stand behind it. I emphatically don't like the way NCSoft does business.

Toast, we need a Korean-American with us. We need someone to tell us what messages are effective in Korea, and what will just tick people off. We need someone to help us communicate to our fellow gamers in Korea why we're so upset, and how brutally NCSoft treats its customers.

Perhaps I'm blind, but I don't see racism here on Titan. Every time someone has said that we've gone too far, and are sending a message that could be considered racist or any kind of "ist" at all, we have backtracked. We have exercised care, to the best of our limited knowledge, to avoid unbecoming behavior. To that end, everything VictoriaVictrix and I do on this site is signed with our real names. We're not hiding behind Internet anonymity.

When people have offered us opinions on Korean mores, I have questioned their credentials. Yours appear to exceed anybody else's here. If you are what you say you are, your expertise would be priceless and frankly, we need all the help we can get.

But if, instead, you want to sulk, and occasionally pop in to call us names (or make up overwrought stories about your grandparents not being allowed to speak with you, which does not tally with any Koreans I know,) that's not helping you or me get back into Paragon.

The choice is yours.



(No, the above isn't one of my memes. I'd have punctuated it correctly.  )

[JaguarX]

 (or make up overwrought stories about your grandparents not being allowed to speak with you, which does not tally with any Koreans I know,)

Well even some South Koreans have family that are still in North Korea especially people like Grand parents and a lot of times, many do not get to speak to them at all due to how difficult it is sometimes to cross back and forth from the DMZ. This may be Toast case may not be but grandparents not allowed to speak to family or various other family members not allowed to speak or outcast is not unheard of there. But the point I dont think it's good to say it's made up without knowing Toast family situation in detail. Not all Koreans are the same. Nor is being Korean (Or Korean-American from what I gather what Toast said he is.)  mean it's immune to family situations such as that.

I know some Koreans who never even met their Grandparents at all on either side. I know some that stopped talking to them, while others refuse to speak to each other over life style choices. I even know some that dont and havent spoken to their own parents in over a decade and counting. Just like what can and happen to all nationalities, races, and people of various country origin and backgrounds. People are people.

[FatherXmas]

...except that for whatever reason, something to do with something called "kibun" that I have no clue about, except it's apparently very insulting, you're not interested in participating.

He tried and was blown off, that's his point. 

You don't open negotiations by spitting in the face of the party you are looking to win over.  He tried to explain why certain approaches would seem exactly like that in Korea and was promptly shouted down, sometimes with the exact cultural taboo he was warning against, after he repeatedly stated how insulting it is, by people involved with the Titan effort before the plug was pulled Nov 30th.

Most people in the US simply don't have the kind of ingrain cultural taboos and practices that are found in other countries around the world.  We don't understand so we often dismiss them until it blows up in our face.

[Knightslayer]

Oh and CE regarding your post (It was posted as I was typing mine and I saw it when I hit preview)....Titan forums have not attracted more than 75 people on an average day since December 1 (The night CoH closed down when 300+ people were here). There are not THOUSANDS of people working on either Plan Z and there are not THOUSANDS of people active here. Many people have simply moved on....especially after no results came out of the Unity Rally. When I stated 100.. I was being generous as on any given day these forums are lucky to attract 60 - 70 unique visitors a day.

I'm sorry you left under such unpleasant circumstances, Toast - I feel I should point out that unique visitors a day does not equal the community size though; not everyone checks daily, I myself do it.
Thousands is an extremely generous number (which people probably keep getting from the petition), but in total I also believe that a hundred falls far short of it.