Author Topic: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About  (Read 10946 times)

ukaserex

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2012, 01:27:29 AM »
Some of you know me in game, some of you may know me from the forums and some of you may not have a clue as to what a Ukase is, let alone how to pronounce it. If you know me, then you know that in the coh forums, I was never above posting my opinion just to see what the results would be. As a leader on Liberty, I was nothing if not passionate. (or the Gordon Ramsay of iTrials, take your pick, lol )
When Tony V and a couple others (Aggelakis maybe <shrug>) made a point for all of us to behave lest we paint ourselves collectively in a bad light, I thought to myself that it was good advice for more than just internet forums.

Early this morning, some lunatic shot down 20 of our children and 6 other adults. This is a heavy loss for anyone that knows those people, and yes, for the rest of us that live in this country. We have less than 2 weeks before Christmas. What better time than now to more thoughtful about what we say and write? Not just here in these forums, but everywhere we speak and write. Particularly in writing, many things get lost. Pronunciation, intonation and pitch. Sarcasm can easily be lost.
For example, from this point forward, I'm sounding just like John Cleese, but none of you have a clue that I'm writing with a distinctive British accent.

It's my challenge to all of you that may be inclined to ridicule or bash anyone or any group of people to rethink your comments before you speak or write them. I heartily recommend using emoticons to ease the sting of jokes and such. Particularly in the forums, there's no telling what is going on with the others who come across your words.

Remember to celebrate with your friends and family; tomorrow is not promised to us. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone.
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

JaguarX

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2012, 01:29:55 AM »
Some of you know me in game, some of you may know me from the forums and some of you may not have a clue as to what a Ukase is, let alone how to pronounce it. If you know me, then you know that in the coh forums, I was never above posting my opinion just to see what the results would be. As a leader on Liberty, I was nothing if not passionate. (or the Gordon Ramsay of iTrials, take your pick, lol )
When Tony V and a couple others (Aggelakis maybe <shrug>) made a point for all of us to behave lest we paint ourselves collectively in a bad light, I thought to myself that it was good advice for more than just internet forums.

Early this morning, some lunatic shot down 20 of our children and 6 other adults. This is a heavy loss for anyone that knows those people, and yes, for the rest of us that live in this country. We have less than 2 weeks before Christmas. What better time than now to more thoughtful about what we say and write? Not just here in these forums, but everywhere we speak and write. Particularly in writing, many things get lost. Pronunciation, intonation and pitch. Sarcasm can easily be lost.
For example, from this point forward, I'm sounding just like John Cleese, but none of you have a clue that I'm writing with a distinctive British accent.

It's my challenge to all of you that may be inclined to ridicule or bash anyone or any group of people to rethink your comments before you speak or write them. I heartily recommend using emoticons to ease the sting of jokes and such. Particularly in the forums, there's no telling what is going on with the others who come across your words.

Remember to celebrate with your friends and family; tomorrow is not promised to us. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone.
indeed.

healix

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2012, 03:04:31 AM »
ukasereex, your words ring so true. Thank you for lowering the volume on some of the unneeded noise. With posted words, you can't see the poster's face to see a smile, a tear, or hear a laugh.
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

Aggelakis

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2012, 03:06:47 AM »
Be nice to each other. Stop accusing each other of racism, stop trying to lay blame where none is warranted. If you have something hateful or mean to say, leave it in your reply window for a while; if when you re-read it you think it is appropriate, then post it. Temper your tone. Being spiteful, being hateful, being confrontational does not help the SaveCoH movement and does not show a united front and does not bolster our community. Each meanspirited word brings the speaker and the listener down.

It would be nice to feel that we are a better world, a world of more compassion and a world of more humanity, and to believe in the basic goodness of man.
Barbara Walters

Everyone in this world is somehow connected. So why not just be nice to everybody.

Richard Simmons

Maybe you don't like your job, maybe you didn't get enough sleep, well nobody likes their job, nobody got enough sleep. Maybe you just had the worst day of your life, but you know, there's no escape, there's no excuse, so just suck up and be nice.
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You just try to be nice to everybody and treat them all the same. Treat them how you would want to be treated.

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Be nice to each other. You can make a whole day a different day for everybody.
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I think that the basic philosophy was very good. It was just be nice to each other, and don't step on other people's toes and infringe on their freedom.
Kevin Ayers

We've got to learn hard things in our lifetime, but it's love that gives you the strength. It's being nice to people and having a lot of fun and laughing harder than anything, hopefully every single day of your life.
Drew Barrymore

Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of being.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it.
Abraham Lincoln
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


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healix

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2012, 03:12:17 AM »
Treat people with politeness, even those who are rude to you -- not because they are nice, but because you are.
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

TonyV

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2012, 04:31:17 AM »
*wields modhammer...  Pay no attention to me, I'm just going to be sorting out and deleting a bunch of stuff from this thread for the next few minutes...

And what Agge said.  Knock it off.  If I see any more accusations of racism (or racism, for that matter) being bandied around, I'm going to be unhappy.  If you have a problem with someone's post, report it, and a moderator will take a look at it.  And if you get modded, don't get all mad.  Things have clearly gone too far, and I'm simply reducing the noise level in here.

There, done!  I've nuked around two and a half pages worth of posts.  Again, if your post got nuked it's not because I hate you or you're in any imminent danger of getting banned, it's probably because since a bunch of others were nuked above it, it's now out of context.

So let me quickly summarize the situation.  Some people think that some other people have been posting things that are racist.  Fair enough; I've seen posts that I feel are racist, and I take appropriate action when I think someone's gone over the line.  Other people think that some people are too sensitive and don't want this forum to become a PC nightmare.  Again, fair enough, which is why we don't moderate every post that gets reported if we feel that it's not really skirting the line of racism.  We try to strike a fair balance between letting people have open discussions and not offending the crap out of people, and in my opinion, our moderators do a pretty durn good job.

Please be aware that sometimes people here will say stuff that rubs you the wrong way.  Please also be aware that there are lines you shouldn't cross, that we are not SomethingAwful or 4chan where just about anything goes.  No one person here on these forums speaks for the entire community or the Titan Network, and I frequently personally disagree with posters but almost never moderate their posts (unless something like...this...happens).  I'm not worried about someone judging SaveCoH or the Titan Network or our community because someone sees a post that someone might construe as vindictive, racist, or otherwise negative, because that would put the unreasonable onus on us to only allow posts that fit in our world view, which is most emphatically not one of our objectives.

And I'll remind everyone yet again that we're all on the same team here, and just like every good team, we have multiple goals and multiple strategies in play to achieve those goals.  You don't have to agree with all of them, and no one (at least, that I know of) is asking for anyone to be a mindless cheerleader for everything that gets put forward here.  But please, I highly encourage you to focus on supporting actions and attitudes that you find favorable instead of trying to tear down actions and attitudes you find unfavorable.  Not only will it be more effective, but you're very unlikely to change anyone's mind who is set in their ways.

All of that having been said, I'll remind everyone again that if you see a post you find objectionable enough that you think it hurts our image or is offensive or dangerous, report it.  Even if we don't act on it, it will make our radar to see patterns and trends and take action later if necessary.  But also, keep in mind that "I don't agree with this" isn't really a good reason to report posts.  That patterns and trends thing can work against you if you convey the impression that you're oversensitive, so for minor stuff, please just let it go, as most of our moderators do have day jobs and stay pretty busy on other CoH-related stuff as well.

Okay, unlocking the thread now, let's see how well this works...
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 06:50:24 AM by TonyV »

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2012, 05:46:02 AM »
I'm saying that I care, and that a lot of other people care, and that it doesnt hurt to attempt to be sensitive to the perceptions that normal people will have. NCSoft might not care about some of us gamers standing up, but it would care if a united front (or cracked back, as implied by another thread...) of gamers came together in a global way. I'm not saying I think it would be easy, or perhapos even doable to get the Korean gaming public on our side..

But I know that I personally want less to do when people don't care. And while I'm not saying you, or anyone else, has purposefully perpetuated such beliefs publicly, seeming to not care about the notion doesnt help us either.

Evil triumphs when good men are apathetic :)  Sorry I just felt that quote fit what you were saying.

DrakeGrimm

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2012, 06:21:56 AM »
DARN YOU TONY! ABUSING YOUR POWER AGAIN! :P

Thanks for stepping in and cleaning up a little. Behold, the horrible truth revealed: forum admins are basically just the janitorial staff! :O
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Perfidus

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2012, 06:34:05 AM »
I applaud you doing this, Tony. But more than that, I applaud that you didn't just delete things and try to pretend it never happened. You did the right thing, acknowledged it, and helpfully explained how we should all go on from here. Kudos.

JaguarX

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2012, 06:55:37 AM »
Evil triumphs when good men are apathetic.

Yep.

Quinch

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2012, 02:16:55 PM »
Evil triumphs when good men are apathetic :)  Sorry I just felt that quote fit what you were saying.

[Help] Light Babe: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to say "Hey, it's a business."

dwturducken

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2012, 05:28:56 PM »
I'm not going back thru to see what got struck, because I have a pretty fair idea. I just wish that, A: it hadn't been necessary, and B: Tony would have left the line about being mad with power (or something like that). It was pretty funny and a nice Alladin reference.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

healix

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2012, 04:28:11 PM »
Even Bill and Ted (who had the combined brain capacity of a small soapdish) got this right...

Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

houtex

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2012, 03:27:03 AM »
^  **I** wanted to post that, healix, you so and so!

Oh, wait.  My bad, supposed to be excellent to ya... so...

..healix, you *excellent* so and so!  :D

/If only the people of the world could just take this one line from that movie and excecute it forthwith and with vigor.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2012, 03:37:26 AM »
If I were still in school I think I could probably get a good long paper out of how Bill and Ted are the modern incarnations of Parsifal, the "Perfect Fool," who manages to see clearly through all the obfuscation that more sophisticated people want to place between common man and the truth.
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Knight Light

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2012, 02:15:14 PM »
[Help] Light Babe: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to say "Hey, it's a business."

Being that my post count is, with this, only up to 3; the very last things I expected to find in this thread were my own words.

Thank you, Quinch. I wasn't sure anyone was listening to me all those nights I tried to keep morale up.

I miss being Light Babe.

This has made my day a little better. Thank you.

Quinch

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Re: A Very Difficult Subject to Talk About
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2012, 02:20:22 PM »
Heh, my pleasure.

[Help] Light Babe: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to say "Hey, it's a business."
[Help] Light Babe: sleep well
[Help] Quinch Rebooted: Light, I'm so going to quote that.
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