Author Topic: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM  (Read 147693 times)

Riff

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #300 on: December 02, 2012, 11:39:52 AM »
This could have a lot of potential - and possibly isn't as long a shot as some seem to think.

One thing nobody's mentioned (in the threads I read) was the CoH comics. With Disney owning Marvel it could create a standalone line of comicbooks that feature Paragon and the Rogue Isles - a different universe. It gives an opportunity for people like the Avengers and X-Men and Fantastic Four to come visiting. It's not like Marvel doesn't have form in that area - Squadron Supreme is the perfect example. They have a stand-alone universe they can create a whole different set of stories in. Imagine Warren Ellis and Brian Bendis being let loose in Paragon's lore!

Problems:

Gangrel pointed out that even if Disney pick up the IP, they might not use it (however personally I think they'd consider this unlikely - because if they wanted to spend on the IP they'd want to generate some cash for it ASAP and they've got a ready made audience out there.) But it is a risk. We could be no better off - and could potentially be worse off (imagine seeing City of Heroes: The Movie) on the big screen featuring your main toon without you getting to even be a tiny part of that!)

NCSoft have already proven themselves intransigent regards the CoH IP. What makes anyone thing they will sell the IP for less than something exhorbitant that will render it worthless to a potential buyer in terms of ROI?

Also I'm a little bit concerned - writing to endorse a pitch I've not actually seen. I've known people get burned with similar activities before. Is there anywhere here we can read this 31 page document? Would be really useful when it comes to crafting a follow up letter.

Quinch

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #301 on: December 02, 2012, 01:09:56 PM »
NCSoft have already proven themselves intransigent regards the CoH IP. What makes anyone thing they will sell the IP for less than something exhorbitant that will render it worthless to a potential buyer in terms of ROI?

Like I've mentioned in other posts, self-preservation. NCsoft is no longer operating from a position of strength like it had with other four MMOs it buried - it's lost money recently, the new releases aren't pulling in the kind of cash to warrant the expenses they made, their stock is taking a dive and the press is questioning them on their home ground. If word got out they refused a cash influx for a property they decided not to use, it would be the last nail in the coffin.

Also I'm a little bit concerned - writing to endorse a pitch I've not actually seen. I've known people get burned with similar activities before. Is there anywhere here we can read this 31 page document? Would be really useful when it comes to crafting a follow up letter.

I understand your frustration, but no - there are some things in there that might end up biting people in the rear, if it became openly known they shared it. So yeah, as annoying as it may be, I'm afraid you have to trust us on this. We spent over two weeks polishing, researching and fact-checking, so if my word is worth anything, then believe me that it was nothing short of professional.

Ammon

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #302 on: December 02, 2012, 01:14:26 PM »
One thing nobody's mentioned (in the threads I read) was the CoH comics. With Disney owning Marvel it could create a standalone line of comicbooks that feature Paragon and the Rogue Isles - a different universe.
Everyone has mentioned cross-marketing.  No need to be specific as telling Marvel they could make comics is just like telling Disney they could make movies.  Grandmothers, eggs, and sucking lessons.

NCSoft have already proven themselves intransigent regards the CoH IP. What makes anyone thing they will sell the IP for less than something exhorbitant that will render it worthless to a potential buyer in terms of ROI?
The fact that the legal issues NCsoft feared evaporate with the closure of the game.  Two inside sources have told us that NCsoft will be quite willing to sell, and even quite cheaply (relative term) now the game and studios are gone as a business entity.

Also I'm a little bit concerned - writing to endorse a pitch I've not actually seen. I've known people get burned with similar activities before. Is there anywhere here we can read this 31 page document? Would be really useful when it comes to crafting a follow up letter.
Noone is asking you to support the pitch written, or anything in it, other than the basic idea that Disney could do very well to take up this game, and continue to develop it.  Write your own reasons.  Make your own case.  State your beliefs about the value.  The plea that others made need have nothing to do with the plea that you make. 

Its the fact lots of pleas arrive that will lead Disney to take a look, and make their own decisions (also free to ignore anything in the Wildcard pitch).

Kistulot

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #303 on: December 02, 2012, 01:30:35 PM »
I will be writing letters in the coming days, happily.

It's the least I can do.

But, and if you answered this already please be gentle, how soon (realistically, and feel free to say a long amount of time) do you think it would take for us to know if we need to move on to plan well... the next one? I only ask because I would be more than happy to write a letter to each of those places, and encourage the same from others, but I know it would make it easier for me to know roughly how long I should know I'll need to wait before giving up hope.

The hardest thing about the sunset for me was that it was hard to give up hope. It was hard to believe it would really shut down, with all of you awesome people cheering for CoH to survive right along side me.

It might be selfish to ask, but it'd definitely help me :)
Woo! - Argent Girl

Quinch

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #304 on: December 02, 2012, 01:42:57 PM »
You're... pretty much where we are too. Remember that we aren't in any position to make decisions about CoH - not the sale, or what can be done when NCsoft sells it. I think the first person who will know the answer - if one comes - will be Brian Clayton, Paragon's head manager. And even then, he might not tell us, and even if he does, we might not be able to tell you, lest we blow our chances. Disney, as far as I can tell, doesn't make a habit of telegraphing their purchases - by the time anybody hears about it, the ink on the contracts is already dry. So while we know what went into the proposal, there's a very good chance we'll know what came out of it no sooner than you do.

Ammon

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #305 on: December 02, 2012, 02:29:22 PM »
Team Wildcard are already evaluating the next targets on the list should Disney not bite, but we really think we should give the Disney campaign a couple of weeks.  Really though, its down to how many letters everyone is sending out to Disney.  We are naturally assuming that just a few people may lose hope, or not try quite so hard on the next target (although we really hope that is wrong, we have to plan for such).  If everyone isn't sending a deluge of mail to Disney, our chances will be slim.

The good news is that those who are extra determined, and send more than just one letter to each, make up a lot for those who are less determined.  But seriously, at this point, every single letter counts.  The more, the better.  Write a letter, write another, and another.  Fight!

There's one saying that is true in life above all others:  The only way to fail anything is to quit.  Anything other than not trying anymore is just that you haven't succeeded yet.  The only way to lose, is to stop trying to win.

Surelle

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #306 on: December 02, 2012, 02:56:54 PM »
All right, here's a question for you folks.

We know how many MMORPGs have been closed (15).

But how many either STILL stay open even with a handful of players, and how many were REVIVED after shutdown?  That could be a very useful set of numbers for Team Wildcard.

Do you mean how many NC itself has shut down and how many of their games were revived, or are you talking about MMOs in general?  Because then, of course, the list gets a whole lot bigger.

Vanguard, originally cancelled by Microsoft, was rezzed, fixed up, and is still owned and operated by Sony Online Entertainment.  In fact it just had a relaunch as F2P.

A.P.B. and Fallen Earth both closed down and then were rezzed by Gamers First and are both still running and being updated today.

Saga of Ryzom's original devs went bust shortly after it launched in 2004, and it was picked up by someone else (and I think handed off a couple times, actually) and it still runs today.

Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising was cancelled during late development, then was rezzed a few years later and is still running today.

I know Turbine rezzed their own games, er, saved them from extinction by buying them back from their publishers.  Their Asheron's Call was originally published by Microsoft, until around 2004, but I think Turbine itself still runs it today.  And Turbine bought back Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online from Atari, wasn't it?   

And speaking of Atari, they chose to put all their eggs into one basket for a while with Cryptic and Champions Online and Star Trek Online, and well, thank goodness for Cryptic getting bought out by Perfect World International, huh?  Or those two games would be dead right now, too! 

Hellgate: London (not really an MMO, more of an online hub/lobby with instances but still) went down when Flagship Studios went bust, then the bank they owed millions to actually hired a dev team to finish it and rez it and it runs worldwide pretty much as Hellgate:  Global today.

And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

wmilliken

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #307 on: December 02, 2012, 03:58:55 PM »
But how many either STILL stay open even with a handful of players, and how many were REVIVED after shutdown?

The one example I know of personally is the Mac version of Everquest, which SoE was going to shut down early this year. It didn't actually get shut down and restarted, but it was a very close thing:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/14/reports-of-everquest-mac-dying-have-been-greatly-exaggerated/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/21/the-game-archaeologist-chats-with-john-smedley-about-eqmacs-sal/

There were some posts on the SoE forums about the shutdown decision and reversal, but I can't find them there now, they may no longer be accessible. Google has a cached copy of the original shutdown announcement:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1KbaknGW5o8J:forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m%3Ftopic_id%3D182821%26fb_source%3Dmessage+Mac+everquest+shutdown+all+good+things+must+come+to+an+end&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The case of MacEQ is a bit unusual, since the game was frozen in its release state and so the server population didn't expect new content, or even much in the way of support, so SoE's ongoing costs were fairly minor -- bandwidth and whatever limited amount of admin support was needed. One of their main issues was an aging code base; a problem not relevant to CoX.

SoE gained a lot of good PR from saving EQMac, and I suspect whatever ongoing costs there are for Al'Kabor are coming out of the marketing budget, since they have *no* way to actually make any money off EQMac now. The head of SoE did ask the EQMac population to promise to eventually buy the new version of Everquest SoE is still working on, but given the number of users involved (probably well under 1000 would be my guess), the real benefit to SoE has to be in the PR value of showing they listen to and support their customers, even if their bean-counters have other ideas.

If you want more details on the saving of EQMac, I suggest contacting the people who run eqmac.com, the main user community for Mac EQ players. They were very involved in the whole process, and no doubt know a lot more than has been reported publicly.

Surelle

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #308 on: December 02, 2012, 05:07:29 PM »
Darkfall Online *could* possibly fit into this category, although it is an interesting case.

Darkfall Online was originally released back in 2009, but in October 2012, Aveturine (their developer) announced that they were shuttering the game November 15th. This was however to make room for Darkfall Unholy Wars... and I believe that Unholy Wars is set in the same game world, but is essentially Darkfall 2.0, with gameplay changes, skill changes and so on and so forth. Characters from the original game *will not* transfer over to the 2nd, due to the changes that they have introduced (there are now classes, where originally it was freeform creation).

Hell, to be honest, the whole development of the game was very very interesting to follow, because it built up a lot of hype, and launched with a very very damp splodge...

Well, yeah, I watched that one too for a bit, but Free For All open PvP with no level restrictions tends to become a damp splodge as you say (lol!) no matter what the game.....

TargetOne

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #309 on: December 02, 2012, 06:54:06 PM »
All right, here's a question for you folks.

We know how many MMORPGs have been closed (15).

But how many either STILL stay open even with a handful of players, and how many were REVIVED after shutdown?  That could be a very useful set of numbers for Team Wildcard.

One that comes to mind is "Horizons: Empires of Istaria" (which has been renamed to "Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted"), http://www.istaria.com/. After much ugly drama within its original development studio, it was released in an incomplete and extremely buggy condition. It was originally developed by Architect Entertainment and released by Atari way back in 2003, but was bought out by a company called Virtrium LLC in 2007.

The game is still up and running, despite what must surely be a VERY small playerbase. The last data available on MMODATA.net was 5,000 subscribers back in 2007, it's likely less than half that by now. But the point is, it IS still running. The current owners do continue to work on bug fixes and other updates, and it appears to have a small but active and tight-knit player community.

I only know of this game by virtue of a co-worker who used to play it frequently, it dropped off the major gaming magazine/websites' radar a long time ago.

MaidMercury

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #310 on: December 02, 2012, 07:12:17 PM »
Write a letter to Disney in an attempt to
purchase 'City of Heroes'
and make NCSoft <-the S.O.B's who shut down the game]
a lot of money for the sale.

Money they couldn't extort from other game companies that made pitches.

My computer 'hung' up processing this data. 0000011110001110010101010101

...but I will think about it...
I did write letters way back, from the very beginning to NCsoft and other companies,
so don't get me wrong. I care a lot.

I've been becoming enlightened from the Titan effort in creating
their own Hero game to fill in the void. It seems full of the same energy CoH had
before NCsoft.


cxemu789

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #311 on: December 02, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »
All right, here's a question for you folks.

We know how many MMORPGs have been closed (15).

But how many either STILL stay open even with a handful of players, and how many were REVIVED after shutdown?  That could be a very useful set of numbers for Team Wildcard.

Mmm, the first that pops to mind is Myst Online: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst_Online:_Uru_Live. For that matter, Ultima Online and Everquest are still going - EQ even released a new issue in November. Also in EQ's case, they just recently saved the Mac version from planned shutdown due to player's petitions. There's also a number of Neverwinter Nights servers functioning, but these are private servers, so it's not exactly the same.

For that matter, there's still several MUDs still running...

Ah, and a quick search turned this article from Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/01/the-game-archaeologist-when-dead-mmos-come-back-to-life/, which mentions Shadowbane, Hellgate, Mythos, All Points Bulletin, Pirates of the Burning Sea and Vanguard.

P.S. And I also just remembered Rhyzom, too.

Enson Red Shirt

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #312 on: December 02, 2012, 10:57:51 PM »
I did some work for them so i made some calls instead (no you can't have the #'s)

dwturducken

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #313 on: December 03, 2012, 12:39:24 AM »
Um. You may have just won the Internet...

Whether or not it advances the effort, thank you.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Riff

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #314 on: December 03, 2012, 12:54:36 AM »
Like I've mentioned in other posts, self-preservation. NCsoft is no longer operating from a position of strength like it had with other four MMOs it buried - it's lost money recently, the new releases aren't pulling in the kind of cash to warrant the expenses they made, their stock is taking a dive and the press is questioning them on their home ground. If word got out they refused a cash influx for a property they decided not to use, it would be the last nail in the coffin.

I understand your frustration, but no - there are some things in there that might end up biting people in the rear, if it became openly known they shared it. So yeah, as annoying as it may be, I'm afraid you have to trust us on this. We spent over two weeks polishing, researching and fact-checking, so if my word is worth anything, then believe me that it was nothing short of professional.

Ok the first point I can kind of agree to. The second, no chance. The "trust me, it's for your own good" thing is exactly a red line I won't cross. Believe me, I want to support this effort, and I do understand issues of confidentiality, but no, actually I don't trust you. No offence, but I don't know you from jack, and we have exactly one thing in common - we want to see CoH live again. But other than that I don't know anything about you, or the (non)team that put this effort together. Your take on this is not dissimilar to the Catholic Church's whole point about "don't let the peasants have a bible they can read, they might find us out" thing - and that's not to mention the whole Hail Mary bollocks! Why are we giving this some religious mumbo jumbo cloak? That in itself is entirely objectionable!

Here's a challenge: You want me to buy in to this - then post a redacted version of this 31 page document that excludes confidential information. Let me make an informed decision about how I proceed. If you don't, I call bullshit. Sorry but that's how I see it.

Roughtrade

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #315 on: December 03, 2012, 02:39:38 AM »
Here's a challenge: You want me to buy in to this - then post a redacted version of this 31 page document that excludes confidential information. Let me make an informed decision about how I proceed. If you don't, I call bullshit. Sorry but that's how I see it.
I've been watching this debate for a couple days now and I am still boggled.

What part of "Dear Disney, I like City of Heroes and I think it would be a profitable venture for you" is life threatening?

They are asking for a letter, not a blood sacrifice.  Your good name is not being attached to a plot to sell embryos to Chinese slavers.  We're just asking for a letter or four stating you enjoyed playing a game and would enjoy playing it again.

The presentation document is not legally binding.  It's an attempt to explain what in City of Heroes might be in Disney's interest to purchase.  If the sale goes through, the legal stuff is all between NC Soft and Disney. 

srmalloy

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #316 on: December 03, 2012, 02:46:28 AM »
After two complete rewrites, three major revisions, and having to set aside the whole thing for a day because trying to do it Saturday was just poking the open wound, I now have four envelopes ready to be dropped into the mail when I go up to the galley at work to eat breakfast tomorrow.

I took Greenlantern24601's Save CoH flyer image and trimmed out the QR code -- it was illegible at the size I was using -- and used it both as a letterhead image and over my return address on the envelopes as a way of getting a little additional distinction to make them stand out better in the sea of mail. I also took the time to look up the standard business letter format so that the letters at least have the appearance of being more rational.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 02:51:47 AM by srmalloy »

dwturducken

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #317 on: December 03, 2012, 02:51:07 AM »
Hang on. We weren't supposed to write it in blood? *awkward*
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Vasarto

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #318 on: December 03, 2012, 02:54:13 AM »
OK! I have a personalized letter to EACH of the places mentioned in this thread!

They are each two pages long and well thought out and written and I am gonna send them out tomorrow afternoon.

Terwyn

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #319 on: December 03, 2012, 03:11:01 AM »
Ok the first point I can kind of agree to. The second, no chance. The "trust me, it's for your own good" thing is exactly a red line I won't cross. Believe me, I want to support this effort, and I do understand issues of confidentiality, but no, actually I don't trust you. No offence, but I don't know you from jack, and we have exactly one thing in common - we want to see CoH live again. But other than that I don't know anything about you, or the (non)team that put this effort together. Your take on this is not dissimilar to the Catholic Church's whole point about "don't let the peasants have a bible they can read, they might find us out" thing - and that's not to mention the whole Hail Mary bollocks! Why are we giving this some religious mumbo jumbo cloak? That in itself is entirely objectionable!

It is not a religious term, rather it is a sports metaphor drawn from American football in regards to an extremely long distance forward pass that has a very slim chance of succeeding initiated either at or very close to the end of a half. So it isn't even remotely objectionable if you understand that particular context. It is so called because it is the sort of move that, to borrow another metaphor, "doesn't have a prayer," so in the process of initiating the action, might as well throw a prayer at it too, just in case.

The simple matter is that there are legal considerations for those who have written the pitch document, as there is solidly confidential information that could end all efforts before they got rolling if they were leaked to a larger audience. The people who put together this pitch are largely experts in their fields, which to my knowledge specifically deal with the sort of information included in that particular communication.
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