Advertise in Game Mags?

[Moonfyire101]

[Victoria Victrix]

Well first of all, we're way behind on the production schedule.  November issues of these magazines are being shipped right now.  December is in final production.  Best we could hope for, probably, is January.

For timely results we would be MUCH better off going with a Google sidebar ad.

[Dr Shadow]

What about buying ad space in the newspapers? Business papers, the kind stockholders like to read.

[Victoria Victrix]

What about buying ad space in the newspapers? Business papers, the kind stockholders like to read.

...you do not want to know how much an ad on one of those costs....

Seriously?  The same amount of money for an ad in Wall Street Journal would probably pay for Codewalker and a couple friends to devote full time to a game engine emulator.

[dwturducken]

I think we may be past worrying about keeping the lights on and into getting them back on.  Not saying we need to lessen our efforts, but Something would have to happen fast in order to keep the servers up, given the glacial pace the kinds of business dealings that would take.

Purely from a "bang for buck" standpoint, though, Google would probably serve us better.

[Moonfyire101]

I think we may be past worrying about keeping the lights on and into getting them back on.  Not saying we need to lessen our efforts, but Something would have to happen fast in order to keep the servers up, given the glacial pace the kinds of business dealings that would take.

Purely from a "bang for buck" standpoint, though, Google would probably serve us better.

I wasn't meaning for keeping the lights on, i meant for getting the word out about NCSoft and getting more people involved. Trying to also pressure them to sell t another company. There is no way to keep the lights on they made their deciion but we can still hope to get enough press and help to make them sell.

[The White Rager]

I tried to reply here before, and my computer froze. Fingers crossed...


Okay, first off, I have mentioned the possibility of doing this myself a few times, and kept meaning to start a thread on it. Since someone else has, I'll just post what I meant to here instead, for all of you to work with. I'll start by working through the options, possible and otherwise.

1) Print medium. Not possible, and not just for the reasons the poster above pointed out. As someone whose worked in the graphics field and studied when to submit what story, I am here to inform you that magazine layouts are decided three to six MONTHS in advance. Christmas stories get submitted in late summer, no joke. But what about reports on things happening days before, you say? They plan space for them ahead of time, I reply, and then the page layout people make it fit. Any ad we arranged now wouldn't show up till late winter. I think we all want things decided before then. That's magazines: newspapers are technically possible, but realistically speaking, would an ad there reach the right audience? No way in hell, so that's a waste of money. Same for radio: what version of it would work for us, we've already reached anyway.

2) TV. Heh. Don't we all wish. I don't need to explain this one do I?

3) Posters. We've got this covered already.

4) Web ads. Here is where we want to focus. Here, we can quickly and accurately send out a message. And by accurately, I mean we can focus where the right people are going. The ads can send people straight to relevant sites, or even better, a custom made one page site, as I'll discuss further down. We'd want to look at game sites first of course, but after that I'd like to see if the mass might of our combined efforts can't break in somewhere a bit more mainstream. If we could get something into the sidebar of the Yahoo home page for one to three days, that would be great, and we just might be able to pull it off. Baring that, some suggestions on somewhat easier to reach goals would be good. Don't undersell us before we start: we are mighty, so suggest the highest goals you think we might be able to reach. What's the point otherwise?

It's not necessarily that simple though, or rather, we shouldn't leave it at that. If we're going to advertise, we should also be prepared to quickly and effectively inform anyone who clicks on an ad. I personally would like to see a nice, graphic one page landing site for the ads to link to. Someplace where they can get fed a quick but effective custom packet of information, explaining what happened, why everyone's mad, why it's important, why it deserves to live, etc. Tim the Enchanters video should be embedded. A description of the efforts thus far that emphasizes how much we've achieved that no one would have thought possible, finished off with links to the petition, this forum, and maybe a few other places? Maybe a few of those emails we've been using could be put there for anyone who finds it to add their voice to ours? The site would not be hard to make, but I'm too busy with schoolwork to volunteer, unfortunately.

That's my input. What's yours?

[Victoria Victrix]

I tried to reply here before, and my computer froze. Fingers crossed...


Okay, first off, I have mentioned the possibility of doing this myself a few times, and kept meaning to start a thread on it. Since someone else has, I'll just post what I meant to here instead, for all of you to work with. I'll start by working through the options, possible and otherwise.

1) Print medium. Not possible, and not just for the reasons the poster above pointed out. As someone whose worked in the graphics field and studied when to submit what story, I am here to inform you that magazine layouts are decided three to six MONTHS in advance. Christmas stories get submitted in late summer, no joke. But what about reports on things happening days before, you say? They plan space for them ahead of time, I reply, and then the page layout people make it fit. Any ad we arranged now wouldn't show up till late winter. I think we all want things decided before then. That's magazines: newspapers are technically possible, but realistically speaking, would an ad there reach the right audience? No way in hell, so that's a waste of money. Same for radio: what version of it would work for us, we've already reached anyway.

2) TV. Heh. Don't we all wish. I don't need to explain this one do I?

3) Posters. We've got this covered already.

4) Web ads. Here is where we want to focus. Here, we can quickly and accurately send out a message. And by accurately, I mean we can focus where the right people are going. The ads can send people straight to relevant sites, or even better, a custom made one page site, as I'll discuss further down. We'd want to look at game sites first of course, but after that I'd like to see if the mass might of our combined efforts can't break in somewhere a bit more mainstream. If we could get something into the sidebar of the Yahoo home page for one to three days, that would be great, and we just might be able to pull it off. Baring that, some suggestions on somewhat easier to reach goals would be good. Don't undersell us before we start: we are mighty, so suggest the highest goals you think we might be able to reach. What's the point otherwise?

It's not necessarily that simple though, or rather, we shouldn't leave it at that. If we're going to advertise, we should also be prepared to quickly and effectively inform anyone who clicks on an ad. I personally would like to see a nice, graphic one page landing site for the ads to link to. Someplace where they can get fed a quick but effective custom packet of information, explaining what happened, why everyone's mad, why it's important, why it deserves to live, etc. Tim the Enchanters video should be embedded. A description of the efforts thus far that emphasizes how much we've achieved that no one would have thought possible, finished off with links to the petition, this forum, and maybe a few other places? Maybe a few of those emails we've been using could be put there for anyone who finds it to add their voice to ours? The site would not be hard to make, but I'm too busy with schoolwork to volunteer, unfortunately.

That's my input. What's yours?

I approve of your plan and would like to subscribe to your magazine ad campaign.

[Lycantropus]

Best we could get an ad in would be December, hm?

Like, during the time everyone's looking to buy presents for friends and family?

Wouldn't informative 'something to consider' ad(s) in a few magazines be useful about that time of year? Something that may have folks think twice about buying a NCSoft product for their friends as gifts if they were made aware they were "shifting company focus" and how that affects it's players? Nothing inflammatory; just facts for them to consider?

Just sayin'

[Victoria Victrix]

Best we could get an ad in would be December, hm?

Like, during the time everyone's looking to buy presents for friends and family?

Wouldn't informative 'something to consider' ad(s) in a few magazines be useful about that time of year? Something that may have folks think twice about buying a NCSoft product for their friends as gifts if they were made aware they were "shifting company focus" and how that affects it's players? Nothing inflammatory; just facts for them to consider?

Just sayin'

I still think the best bang for our buck would be online ads.  Because more and more Christmas shopping is done online, and because, when you are talking about buying games, I would guess that the VAST majority of non-console games are bought online, not in stores.

[Ammon]

This discussion falls firmly into my professional area.

Yes, Google AdWords are certainly an option, but they can be quite expensive.  You'd want to put about $1000 a month into the budget to have any effect at all, and it would still be minor.  Companies buying ads space on Google put hundreds of thousands a month into that budget, because you pay every time an ad is clicked.  However, it is superbly adjustable, as you can specify exactly what search your ad will appear for, word for word.  This means you could target searches for "Guild Wars 2 Reviews" and "Blade and Soul Reviews" to specifically appear only to people already searching for information to persuade them one way or another.

Or go for the jugular immediately with ads aimed at searches for "NCsoft shares" and aim to go direct for the share values and cause speculators to be rather less eager.

This ability to pick exact phrases or words means that you can (with thought) appeal directly to people with a particular activity or interest in mind to a very granular and specific level.

In all of these cases, you need to decide what the objective is, and what, precisely is a 'successful' result for us of each click, and also, how we measure it.  I think you'd want some kind of sign-up form, or ability to share the news, and would take people signing up for more news, or sharing the news with others as a 'successful' result from the click we paid for.

Of course, you can get the same sort of speed with viral marketing, especially through Social Media.  I know this is the angle you've already been working, but I'd say that it needs more, and to have more co-ordination, and more diverse media to it as well.  Where is the poster I can put up in my games store window about NCsoft games and concerns people may (or should) have?  Have one I can prnt out that is easily found from any of the online hubs of the Titan Network efforts so far.  Is there a newsletter I can subscribe to?  Is signing up for these forums a good thing?  How will we measure it, and more importantly, how will we leverage those sign-ups into actual actions and further media coverage?

And in the mid-to-long-term, we really need to be considering Search Engine Optimization.  This is the way companies get good coverage in search without spending a fortune per click.  Its not gaming the system, its merely understanding how it works, how it masures quality and relevance, and making sure you are aligned with the quality and relevance it seeks.

[Victoria Victrix]

I like your expertise, and I would like to subscribe to your magazine postings.

Dare I ask if you are prepared to take on the daunting task of steering this herd of cats when it comes to the marketing aspect of our message?  Or are you confining yourself to merely offering advice?  Bearing in mind that when I say "steering" I mean just that--giving us directions, and saying "Fly my little monkeys, fly!" and letting us do the rest.

[Ammon]

Dare I ask if you are prepared to take on the daunting task of steering this herd of cats when it comes to the marketing aspect of our message?  Or are you confining yourself to merely offering advice?  Bearing in mind that when I say "steering" I mean just that--giving us directions, and saying "Fly my little monkeys, fly!" and letting us do the rest.

I think you just dared.

I'm here to help as much as I can.  We are heroes.  This is what we do.  From what I have seen so far, this is still a stage where mainly advice is needed to formulate a plan of marketing.  I think there are stages in which there is already a plan of action.  Most notably we already know that leveraging social media, and spreading the word is in the plan.  In these cases, certainly I can help with formulating more precise steps and instructions.  We need to make it easy for people to help the effort.  As simple as filling in the petition was.  But this also requires that tie-in to other aspects of marketing.  Tony V's contact details as spokesman, for one example, should any media want further information.

Has anyone thought of using Cafe Press to create quick #saveCOH merchandise?  This then does not just allow us to generate a war chest, but it also takes the message out of the virtual world.  Imagine 3 faces in a crowd shot of a sports event on TV, all wearing #savecoh caps.  And measuring the way people 'buy in' to the campaign is again proof of value.  Proof that people are willing to spend money on CoH and that its market value is far, far from dead.

Who currently is able to make marketing decisions about what to follow, and how to link all of the media together into a plan for actual results?  I'm already available to that person as an advisor and executive.  PM me for contact details.

[Lily Barclay]

I know Virtue's Captain Bacon has an Etsy store selling AP33 shirts on a very small scale as he actually loses a little money on each one. Links to it are in the Facebook groups.

[The White Rager]

Best we could get an ad in would be December, hm?

Like, during the time everyone's looking to buy presents for friends and family?

Wouldn't informative 'something to consider' ad(s) in a few magazines be useful about that time of year? Something that may have folks think twice about buying a NCSoft product for their friends as gifts if they were made aware they were "shifting company focus" and how that affects it's players? Nothing inflammatory; just facts for them to consider?

Just sayin'

No, I don't think that's a great idea. Too much could change between now and then.

[The White Rager]

And Ammon, I'm thrilled to see you found this thread. I've had some edefication on how to think for all this, but if I'd really been that hot for it, I'd have stayed there and gotten a Bachelors, instead of running off to art school to learn Interior Architecture (lol).


Okay...so your biggest point Ammon is, we need more than just a landing page, we need a digital infrastructure to integrate people who are interested effectively, hold their interest and simultaneously give us a gauge by which to measure results?

[Ammon]

Okay...so your biggest point Ammon is, we need more than just a landing page, we need a digital infrastructure to integrate people who are interested effectively, hold their interest and simultaneously give us a gauge by which to measure results?

Yes.

We have an agenda that goes beyond just having someone see what we are talking about, nod, and move on to other things.  We need to look at how our actions in marketing actually make results on our end-objectives - saving CoH or getting NCsoft to release the IP at a cheaper rate than they've so far considered.

Therefore effective marketing has to be like a process that leads to sales, except the 'sale' may be anything from getting the reader to pass the information on to their friends, through reconsidering their decision on investing in NCsoft games, right up to dissuading stock traders from wanting to buy into NCsoft (causing share price devaluation).

One way to do this is to assign a kind of token 'value' to various actions, anywhere from zero to whatever.  Sometimes just a rough 0-10 score system is entirely sufficient.  Someone who sees our marketing but doesn't read it or take it in is a zero value.  Meanwhile, someone managing a fund on the stock market selling their 1% stake in NCsoft would perhaps be a 10 out of 10 value.

This then gives us a system for measuring the effectiveness of our efforts.  Because one cannot manage what one cannot measure.  It means we can evaluate the actual results of our efforts in real time, and seek to improve performance.

Some actions to roughly create a scale of values for include:

- Reading and remembering our press, taking the message with them.
- Spreading the message to others by posting/sharing the link to others via whatever means.
- Signing up for the Titan Network forums and offering support for events.
- Signing the Online Petition to save CoH.
- Giving us a quote or material to use in further publicity attempts.
- Donating money or time or other resources to the campaign.

The list can be almost endless, but it very soon gives us a rough idea of what we consider most valuable in our efforts at a given time.  If just reading and taking on board what we are saying is worth 1 point, while offering assistance is worth 5 points, we know that it is (in our estimation) five times more effective to get people willing to help in the effort than to just be aware of it, but we also remember that just making awareness does have a value too.

The values only have to be rough 'rule of thumb' type things - they are merely a symbolic construct for helping us measure effectiveness.
Does that help?

[Victoria Victrix]

Weeeellll I just said I was in this for the long haul.....

If this stretches out to August of 2013....I've been invited to be Guest of Honor for GenCon.  Only the biggest gaming convention in the country, if not the world.

Ammon, I could use your strategizing expertise on this one.  I don't want to piss off GenCon by asking for too much....on the other hand a full page "NCSoft = Gamekiller" ad in the convention book, and a sidebar click-on on the convention site could do us a lot of good, I think.

[eabrace]

I've been invited to be Guest of Honor for GenCon.

Congrats!

[Segev]

Weeeellll I just said I was in this for the long haul.....

If this stretches out to August of 2013....I've been invited to be Guest of Honor for GenCon.  Only the biggest gaming convention in the country, if not the world.

Ammon, I could use your strategizing expertise on this one.  I don't want to piss off GenCon by asking for too much....on the other hand a full page "NCSoft = Gamekiller" ad in the convention book, and a sidebar click-on on the convention site could do us a lot of good, I think.

I am sure, if GenCon isn't offended by the suggestion, that there are CoH players who'd love to cosplay as their characters (or as recognizable NPCs) and hold torches for a salute to introduce you, too.