Author Topic: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP  (Read 22741 times)

Lock-On

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2012, 06:21:54 PM »
Cryptic seems to be willing, at least, to discuss licensing the engine to an agency which wished to continue the game. What they'll charge for it is, of course, an open question, but I think their general thought is, "Why not? We like making money."

I hope that that statement is true.  My primary concern is the possibility of less then scrupulous people at Cryptic (not naming names, I have no knowledge on this subject one way or another) realizing that they could in fact potentially kill a direct competitor.

But my knowledge of this particular subject is almost completely and utterly speculative and is just a worry.  It's not based on any particular fact(s), one way or another.

RedWolfeXR

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2012, 01:11:10 AM »
Licensing seems unlikely to me given NCSoft's desire to shed any and all responsibility for the property from their books.  As for the game engine itself, well....I've avoided discussing that on purpose right now.  But that is a distinctly different and harder issue to deal with at the moment.

The problem is that nobody could cleanly take it quickly.  Even if they decided to sell it -- they would be stuck hosting it AND its billing until the new company got its servers and billing system up.  They would have to be paid by the buyer to host it and by definition would make LESS than they were when they shut it.

Even in the absolute best case where Paragon got to keep it and the current servers (which would have to be bought as well) there would be a long delay in setting up a new billing system.  (and all this time the microtransaction stream would be dry)

With the notice a lot of folks moved on already, as well, so its a smaller bucket.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but those complications are likely what NC meant when they  said they had researched it.  They didn't mean buyers, they meant the logistics.  Just think of the privacy issues involved in transferring billing data and account info...   

But I can promise they will pursue anyone that tries an emulator, rigorously.    My best guess is that they would just license the IP and then sell the servers and hardware if they did decide it was worth selling.  I can't imagine any scenario where they would admit they were mistaken and recant closing it themselves.

The fact is they know that the fervor to save the game will quickly fade in December, and with it the bad press.  All they are doign is delaying.

Freefall

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2012, 02:22:20 AM »
  • If the IP is sold, and the devs make a better game that steals revenue away from NCSoft, then a significant financial impact could occur for them.
  • If the IP is sold and a better game is made, NCSoft also loses face for letting a profitable IP get away from them.

Actually, I disagree. The recent announcement by NCSoft is quite typical of a face-saving measure...let me try to explain how I see it, if face rather than money was the issue.

Being perceived as forced to backtrack by player anger, after publicly announcing they will sunset CoH, would be THE major loss of face in this whole affair. This means that they have lost their authority, and are now publicly shamed.

Therefore, there's no way NCSoft will backtrack. But if they ignore player anger, it is also bad for their face because they are now revealed as being inconsiderate/cruel to a community of people.

If I were NCSoft, what would I do? I would make an annoucement saying that I am trying to do something (e.g. selling CoH), but it was just not feasible, sorry players. In reality, I would avoid players, ignore them, put them through hoops. Or I would even meet with the representatives, but make up some excuse to justify not selling CoH. Because I know that as long as I can last until the closure of CoH, the problem will go away.

Now that NCSoft has annouced that they can't sell it, it would be an even more loss of face if they ended up selling. I think the only way forward is to persuade them to perform some kind of 'kindly gesture' or donation to charity type of thing for a token fee.


Sajaana

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2012, 04:27:39 AM »
Let me ask you all a question.  Picture yourself five years from now.  If CoH closed this year, but reopened five years from now, would you be interested in playing?

You might have to start from scratch with your characters.  You might have to deal with a new monetization scheme.  You might have to settle for no development or very slow development.

But you'll have it: everything you have now, under new management.

Would that be something you could enjoy?  Would that be something you'd pay to experience?

Because that, to me, looks to be really possible and--more importantly--really probable.  Let me explain.

People say that NCSoft hasn't released Exteel, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, and so on.  But let me ask you, has anyone really, as far as you know, tried to acquire them recently?

I mean recently, like this year, a few years after the games closed.  Because everybody and their uncles are interested in "saving" every two bit title when the services are still running.  But what about years afterword?

Because I'd have to imagine if there was any serious interest in those games from a buyer, a serious plan, and a fair price, NCSoft couldn't ignore the offer.  They can't, because the only thing a publisher can do with an out of print title is to unload it, if they can, for whatever they can get for it.

Publishers aren't archivists, and they don't even have an exclusive right to their IP after a certain time.  Not even patents and IPs last forever.  So, if they aren't making money off of running it, the only way they'll be able to make money off of it is to sell it.  And if they don't, the IP becomes worthless as it falls into public domain.

See, you have to understand the dynamics of publishing, because it really doesn't change as much as we think it does between film, books, music, films, or even games.  No matter what the medium may be, publishing is about the "backcatalogue" just as much as its about the "works in print."  And a work like a game, just like the work of a novelist, falls into obscurity over time, making the work less valuable the longer it stays "out of print" and out of the public eye.

Now I think there's a reason that nobody in 2012 has stepped up to buy Exteel, Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa off of NCSoft's backcatalogue: they were perceived as underdeveloped failures that are now, regrettably, too old and too obscure to be viable to most buyers.  But I'd have to imagine that if someone wanted them, they could get them, and at a steal, compared to what it would take to develop them from scratch.

I have no doubt that if someone wants this game, they could have it.  The rub is that it might take some time before it approaches the price they want.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 04:55:47 AM by Sajaana »

Segev

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2012, 05:06:23 AM »
Spur of the moment thought: I wonder if it would sweeten the pot any if a potential buyer offered to take some of those defunct games off their hands, as well.

I doubt it, but it's something to ponder.

downix

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2012, 05:15:45 AM »
Spur of the moment thought: I wonder if it would sweeten the pot any if a potential buyer offered to take some of those defunct games off their hands, as well.

I doubt it, but it's something to ponder.
hmm. $80 million for CoH by itself is overpriced. Add in TR, AA, Exteel, DR... we might have something.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2012, 05:22:33 AM »


Even in the absolute best case where Paragon got to keep it and the current servers (which would have to be bought as well) there would be a long delay in setting up a new billing system.

Just a TINY correction.  I have affirmative information that the servers themselves are leased from a farm in Dallas.  Someone here on the boards has a server in the same farm.
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RedWolfeXR

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2012, 05:24:14 AM »
If they had any interest in selling the timing wouldn't matter that much.  Its worth more NOW than it will be in 5 years, and they know that as well as we do.

NC hasn't EVER sold a title to ANYone that I can find in research.  They have bought titles, and developed them.   Actually (and unusual for the industry) Cryptic actually owned the IP and NC only published it.  The sale of the IP was done and Cryptic split due to the then-Marvel but now Champions IP they wanted to develop and the implied conflict of interest.

Heh, as far as I know Cryptic Studios is the only Dev to escape the maw of NC Soft after being partnered.  Too bad they didn't take their IP with them.

RedWolfeXR

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2012, 05:26:58 AM »
Just a TINY correction.  I have affirmative information that the servers themselves are leased from a farm in Dallas.  Someone here on the boards has a server in the same farm.

Ah, I bet I know which one.  I drive by it every day.

Heh, if you are the VV I think YOU are then I am the RedWolfe you think I am.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2012, 05:29:30 AM »
Ah, I bet I know which one.  I drive by it every day.

Heh, if you are the VV I think YOU are then I am the RedWolfe you think I am.

I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

DrakeGrimm

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2012, 05:32:37 AM »
I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

Thought that was the last Die Hard...no? Oh. My bad.
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downix

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2012, 05:33:09 AM »
I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!
Unfortunately for us, Tom is busy and all we could get if Dolph Lundgren....

dwturducken

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2012, 05:33:53 AM »
Unfortunately for us, Tom is busy and all we could get if Dolph Lundgren....
So, straight to video, then?
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

RedWolfeXR

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2012, 05:59:08 AM »
So, straight to video, then?

And One gets to be the comedy relief?

One has seen what happens to the comedy relief in these movies...  One passes.... :roll:

aerom13

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2012, 06:15:07 AM »
I'm very new to the forums and might not post a lot, but I want this game saved!  On the 3rd, you said, "goodwill. The course of action they have taken so far has only damaged their corporate image, and they are playing in a field where being labeled a game killer who does not care for its customers is NOT good."

Perhaps, even though this is a very weak idea, we should consider a way to leverage pressure on NCSoft, or just simply appeal (for the love of CoX!) somehow.
I'm here because I saw 'The JunkyardWarrior' outside city hall holding vigil on Virtue just today!  I joined the forum because of it and held vigil as well. 

We need to get some type of buzz, or viral video of us (or maybe our toons?) protesting the Nov 30 shut down.  All of us (toons) should hold round the clock vigils, and call the news media in each of our cities to let them in on our plight.  Our protest is without voice at this time otherwise.  And time is running out!  We need this to reach a fever pitch quickly, and gain the passions of the internet bloggers who may sympathize, and have connections that could help save the game.

'Is NCSoft hero or villain?' that should be the question, and let the 'internet court of opinion' help argue our point maybe?  (I'm up way too late, and venting a bit!)  :-\ 

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Sajaana

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 06:18:40 AM »
If they had any interest in selling the timing wouldn't matter that much.  Its worth more NOW than it will be in 5 years, and they know that as well as we do.

NC hasn't EVER sold a title to ANYone that I can find in research.  They have bought titles, and developed them.   Actually (and unusual for the industry) Cryptic actually owned the IP and NC only published it.  The sale of the IP was done and Cryptic split due to the then-Marvel but now Champions IP they wanted to develop and the implied conflict of interest.

Heh, as far as I know Cryptic Studios is the only Dev to escape the maw of NC Soft after being partnered.  Too bad they didn't take their IP with them.

Now let me ask you this.

Besides the offer by NetDevil to buy Auto Assault while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Auto Assault after it closed?

Besides the offer by Richard Garriott to but Tabula Rasa while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Tabula Rasa after it closed?

See, most of the reservations NCSoft would possibly have to turn down an offer while a service is running melt away after the service closes.  Moreover, whatever reservations they might have are overshadowed by a far more grave concern: that the asset they invested so many development dollars into is rapidly, and irrevocably, depreciating.

Seriously, do you think if someone came out, today, and made NCSoft an offer on their old junk, like Exteel, they wouldn't jump on it?

Terwyn

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 06:30:04 AM »
Now let me ask you this.

Besides the offer by NetDevil to buy Auto Assault while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Auto Assault after it closed?

Besides the offer by Richard Garriott to but Tabula Rasa while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Tabula Rasa after it closed?

See, most of the reservations NCSoft would possibly have to turn down an offer while a service is running melt away after the service closes.  Moreover, whatever reservations they might have are overshadowed by a far more grave concern: that the asset they invested so many development dollars into is rapidly, and irrevocably, depreciating.

Seriously, do you think if someone came out, today, and made NCSoft an offer on their old junk, like Exteel, they wouldn't jump on it?

There's merit to this if it works.

Hypothetically, we save City and get the rest along side of it.

Why then, wouldn't we incorporate those things which would make CoX stronger?
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Sajaana

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2012, 06:41:07 AM »
There's merit to this if it works.

Hypothetically, we save City and get the rest along side of it.

Why then, wouldn't we incorporate those things which would make CoX stronger?

I'm sure a new owner or licensee would be able to incorporate whatever they wanted.  But since these things take time, expertise, and money (which may be in short supply), I didn't want to dwell on these possibilities too much.

The most important thing, I would think, would be to purchase the service and get it into a position to open it up to the consuming public.  That alone would be a lot of work and require a lot of capital, and would be far better than what we have now.

Mister Bison

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2012, 06:47:33 AM »
So in some research on my own, and in looking through the thread on Korean Kibun I think I'm starting to understand the logic behind the decisions that NCSoft is currently making.

First thread, http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5450.0.html

Based on that thread I can see 2 issues for NCSoft with letting go of the IP for City of Heroes

  • If the IP is sold, and the devs make a better game that steals revenue away from NCSoft, then a significant financial impact could occur for them.
  • If the IP is sold and a better game is made, NCSoft also loses face for letting a profitable IP get away from them.
3. Even if the IP is not sold, nor any better game is made, but the current game is kept alive at no cost, it takes paying customers away from them as they won't have time to spend on their games.
4. (or Z:) The IP is not sold and fans make a new game suitable for the needs of the current gamers. They still loose money, and this will definitely happen.

But, they have to see 5:
5. They sell the IP or license and so could still make money for it, better or not better game, if not much. Before the closing annoucement it made perfect sense to close, but they didn't know 4 could be real. Now that they know that, it won't be losing face since they could come honestly saying how devoted their fans were. Happy ending.

or 4.bis, another bad case: Cryptic sells another license to someone else and we start from the old version of the game. I just hope the contract with NCSoft wasn't an exclusive license.
Yeeessss....

Quinch

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Re: How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2012, 07:36:13 AM »
I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

Nah, it wouldn't work. You need a floppy disk to copy the game onto, and I'm sure the servers don't use those.