How to get NCSoft to let go of the IP

[Lock-On]

So in some research on my own, and in looking through the thread on Korean Kibun I think I'm starting to understand the logic behind the decisions that NCSoft is currently making.

First thread, http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5450.0.html

Based on that thread I can see 2 issues for NCSoft with letting go of the IP for City of Heroes

• If the IP is sold, and the devs make a better game that steals revenue away from NCSoft, then a significant financial impact could occur for them.
  
• If the IP is sold and a better game is made, NCSoft also loses face for letting a profitable IP get away from them.

As I said in that thread, any solution that doesn't address both of these problems for NCSoft is doomed to failure. 

Second thread: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5449.0.html

In the Korean Kibun thread, there's a lot of great information about how Korean behavior functions and why they're behaving the way they are.  It also helps me to understand the context of the message they put out yesterday, in that it may not have just been about completely awful business speak.  (Though it was completely awful business speak too.)

The number one thing that Tony has done for us that has given us a real chance for success with #Save CoH, has been to keep the message positive.  By refusing to go negative, we've shown the leadership of NCSoft that our Kibun is harmonious (mostly), and that we are seeking a way to resolve the issue at hand in a manner that improves the Kibun of everyone.  In that thread, the poster QuantumHero gave a pitch perfect response to yesterday's message from NCSoft that took Kibun into consideration:

"...please return to the table nsoft.  It is your departure from the effort that shames us all.  To redeem face is to find a solution for we do not accept the name of our world written in red ink.  We must wash that hated color away...that is how we can all restore ourselves to harmony."

This example may be a bit much, but keeping the culture central in our discussion with NCSoft will only help to show them how hard we are striving to find a "harmonious" solution for all.

So how do we go back and solve the 2 problems mentioned above while keeping Kibun in the picture?  One option that occurs off the top of my head, (and please keep in mind, I'm just brainstorming ideas here that may have already been attempted anyway) would be to offer NCSoft some kind of investment stake in the IP after they sell it to the developers (Ideally a non-decision making stake).

Why would we want the company that axed us, investing in us?  And why would they agree to give us money (or just sell the IP to us cheap) after they're shutting it down to supposedly realign their corporate vision?  Well, as an investor in the game, what would NCSoft gain if the game does become successful or even just maintains it's current standings?  First, they get a steady income stream from Paragon (or whatever the dev studio becomes) as an investor for minimal or even no cost (Remember Paragon would still have to buy the IP from them, thus giving them money outright).  To sweeten the deal Paragon could always offer a buyout option such that whatever investment stake NCSoft does make, that Paragon has to buy them out to prevent any loss of revenue on NCSoft's part.  Sort of a fail safe, in case the game tanks.  (Putting all the financial risk on Paragon.)

Second, it gives them the ability to save Kibun and say, we ended our relationship with a game that was not something we wanted, but also created a harmonious relationship between the community of gamers that did want the game, that can last into perpetuity.

Thus hopefully allying the financial concerns as well as providing them a way to maintain a high Kibun with themselves and their clients as well.

Of course, this or some similar option may have been already offered to them and they decided to turn it down because it just wasn't worth the bother to them.  That is why we must continue to focus on the positive aspects of our campaign and keep applying the pressure.  So much so that not finding a way to make everyone happy, ends up damaging their Kibun.  Something that I feel is bound to happen anyway, if they go down their current path.  Let's not even talk about our own harmonious state after such an event.

[voodoogirl]

How would letting the IP go open source affect their kibun?

[Lock-On]

They'd never let it go open source because it's a profitable IP and that would damage them financially.  Thus it would be seen as a poor business decision and damaging to their Kibun.

[DrakeGrimm]

NOW we're getting somewhere. Let's get some more perspectives in on this.

[voodoogirl]

Well, if they manage the Open-Source code and allow people to run their own emulators - then nobody will be making money.

That's like me packaging Open Office into a CD and trying to sell it on Amazon for $14.99

[Segev]

Very well put, Lock-On. Just what I was thinking. ^_^_v

[blue storm]

They could:

- Open source the code and the IP through a foundation. Let the community continue development of the product and run its own masterserver.  If some private shards want to be run, let them do so ! (It will not harm the community of 10 people setup a server for private use. I can pretty much guarantee that they'll also show up on the "official" one where all the crowd is...). Cost for NCSOFT = 0

That foundation could then grant a merchandising license of the IP back to NCSoft so they can make money on merchandising (royalties on card games, t-shirts). no money down for NCSoft, only a profit proportional to the success of the endeavor. or the other way around, they retain the IP and grant a perpetual license to the foundation, and retain the rights for all merchandising...

The foundation could be funded through donations and anyone could get something in exchange of the donations similar to what you have today with the microtransactions...

Compare this with the current situation where they have No COst, but no gain whatsoever to expect, especially since this situation is damaging badly their corporate image...

[Knightward]

I'm liking the train of thought here.  In a less cultural, more business sense, making them a stockholder of sorts looks good in that it appeals to their greed: if another company can run the game better, we still profit!

[Lock-On]

Well, if they manage the Open-Source code and allow people to run their own emulators - then nobody will be making money.

That's like me packaging Open Office into a CD and trying to sell it on Amazon for $14.99

Why would a company that is in the business to make money do something that would specifically make them NO money?  How do you sell them on that?

They could:

- Open source the code and the IP through a foundation. Let the community continue development of the product and run its own masterserver.  If some private shards want to be run, let them do so ! (It will not harm the community of 10 people setup a server for private use. I can pretty much guarantee that they'll also show up on the "official" one where all the crowd is...). Cost for NCSOFT = 0

That foundation could then grant a merchandising license of the IP back to NCSoft so they can make money on merchandising (royalties on card games, t-shirts). no money down for NCSoft, only a profit proportional to the success of the endeavor. or the other way around, they retain the IP and grant a perpetual license to the foundation, and retain the rights for all merchandising...

The foundation could be funded through donations and anyone could get something in exchange of the donations similar to what you have today with the microtransactions...

Compare this with the current situation where they have No COst, but no gain whatsoever to expect, especially since this situation is damaging badly their corporate image...

Who pays for this foundation?  Funded by micro-transactions you say?  What makes this foundation different from a standard business entity then?  If the micro-transactions are being used to pay for the foundation, what pays for the development and updates for the game?  Is the development team part of the foundation?  Why do you call it a foundation then, instead of a development studio?  What viable merchandising options exist for the IP right now that have not already been exploited?  There is no market for t-shirts, action figures, posters, or anything else that I'm aware of.  Why merchandise at all when there is no evidence of a market for it's existence?

And please don't take this as me picking on you, but I'm just trying to understand the actual implications of what you're suggesting and putting it in the context of what does NCSoft have to gain from this.  If you can't answer the two questions I laid out at the beginning of the thread definitively and convincingly to me, I doubt you'll be able to convince an actual NCSoft executive of it either.

How does this solution protect NCSoft's financial stability now and into the future?

How does this solution allow them to improve their Kibun in the eyes of their Korean and US business and customer interests?

[Battle Ant]

I'm sorry but the only thing deciding the fate of CoH is the almighty dollar. If they were worried about saving face, they could have kept the game going and donated what money was being made to charity minus operating costs (servers, maintenance crews, etc). The fans would have been happy, they would have gotten tax write offs and they would been helping people and creating great PR for themselves and their other games. It could have been a WIN for everyone.

Secondly, what better way of saving face than being truthful and actually talking to the community instead of just sending out vague announcements. The whole situation could have been handled much better if they would have just said " We are sorry guys but since x, y, and z, are happening, we do not see any foreseeable solution to  allow us to keep the game running. They don't have to give out trade secrets, just honest answers.

They are hiding behind the community managers.  Even if it is (or was) Zwill's or Hit Streaks' job to relay these messages, NCsoft Corp using these guys as shields from the community outrage because they do not have the balls to speak to us themselves. Being a strong leader means having the courage to make tough decisions when you need to like closing the game but it also means sometime you have to sacrifice your ego to do the right thing. 

[blue storm]

Good questions: It's been a long day here and I probably posted faster than I should have: I don't imply that my posts is the "magical solution that solves all the issues". My point is that they won't lose more by open sourcing the game than by shutting it down. From a pure cash flow standpoint, the solutions are strictly identical one to the other. They get rid of the IP and the opex BUT if they open source the game they increase an intangible asset: goodwill. The course of action they have taken so far has only damaged their corporate image, and they are playing in a field where being labeled a game killer who does not care for its customers is NOT good.
Granted, this is only an intangible asset, but it does have an accounting value...

How about being the white knight and savior of a community be bad for their Kibun ?

You mentioned earlier that it's a profitable IP : how about shutting down the game and leaving the IP dormant be profitable to them ? Sorry, I don't buy the whole I retain it so you won't make money from it talk : open sourcing the game is not about us making money from it)

Open sourcing would be the best thing that could happen from the standpoint of the community... maybe not so from NCSOft standpoint if they expect some $$$ in exchange for the IP. Which leaves us with the crownfunding solution.

[Segev]

I am not trying to be a downer, nor argue at this point, but I am curious: other than the romanticism attached to the concept of "open source," what actually is the benefit to "the community" or the game if it becomes such?

[DrakeGrimm]

I am not trying to be a downer, nor argue at this point, but I am curious: other than the romanticism attached to the concept of "open source," what actually is the benefit to "the community" or the game if it becomes such?

No one could ever 100% kill it. Anybody could, at any moment, pick it back up and work on it again without worrying about who owns what.


...that's about it, really. Which is a -great- benefit, but...yea. Not terribly out-weighing the cons of it.

[Lock-On]

My point is that they won't lose more by open sourcing the game than by shutting it down. From a pure cash flow standpoint, the solutions are strictly identical one to the other.

Actually, this is not true.  You're assuming that NCSoft is interested in it's current cash flow.  In the links in my original post, one of them leads to an article discussing NCSoft's excessive current cash flow and the priorities given that they have more cash right now then they can spend.  That article lead me to conclude that NCSoft doesn't really care about their existing cash flow, but instead about their future cash flow.  Which would explain why they wouldn't seriously consider an offer for the IP right now.  If you have more money then you can spend what good will 10 million more do?  Better to not let the IP escape and come back and bite into your possible future revenues then let it out now.  If you get a second, you should absolutely go and read through those links.  I think they will give you a new perspective on this part and may help to explain why I think that open sourcing the game is looked at by NCSoft as a bad financial move.

Your points on the goodwill issue are excellent which is why it's important to stress them over and over.  And over and over.  They are our only real leverage point, and they are having an effect.

[Lock-On]

No one could ever 100% kill it. Anybody could, at any moment, pick it back up and work on it again without worrying about who owns what.


...that's about it, really. Which is a -great- benefit, but...yea. Not terribly out-weighing the cons of it.

It also violates a basic business rule.  If you have something profitable, why would you give it away?

Wait...that's not a benefit of open-source at all.  Sorry.

[Valjean]

I dont' think NCsoft ever intended to let go of the IP. If you look at their history of not just American games, but Korean games, I don't think they've ever once sold or released any of their IP in the past 10 years.

[Dollhouse]

I dont' think NCsoft ever intended to let go of the IP.

Nor do I. The actual market value of the game (IP and everything..) is almost certainly significantly less than what NCSoft could declare as its valuation for tax purposes. With a very large amount of revenue on the positive side of the balance sheet from the GW2 launch, being able to write off all of the Paragon Studios assets will greatly reduce what woudl otherwise be an enormous tax liability. Why would they sell CoH for a much smaller amount than it's worth as a tax write-off?

[Victoria Victrix]

Nor do I. The actual market value of the game (IP and everything..) is almost certainly significantly less than what NCSoft could declare as its valuation for tax purposes. With a very large amount of revenue on the positive side of the balance sheet from the GW2 launch, being able to write off all of the Paragon Studios assets will greatly reduce what woudl otherwise be an enormous tax liability. Why would they sell CoH for a much smaller amount than it's worth as a tax write-off?

This presupposes that Korean corporate taxes work like American corporate taxes.  I'm not sure they do.

[The White Rager]

So it is just me, or does this largely sum up to 'lets find a win win situation here?' Not that I think that's a bad thing or anything. And of course the devil is in the details.

[Victoria Victrix]

Nor do I. The actual market value of the game (IP and everything..) is almost certainly significantly less than what NCSoft could declare as its valuation for tax purposes. With a very large amount of revenue on the positive side of the balance sheet from the GW2 launch, being able to write off all of the Paragon Studios assets will greatly reduce what woudl otherwise be an enormous tax liability. Why would they sell CoH for a much smaller amount than it's worth as a tax write-off?

Also in American corporate tax law, if you sell something at a loss, you still get to write it off. 

[laufeyjarson]

I do believe them when they've said it won't be released open source.  It's quite likely they don't own all the IP rights to the code.  They don't own the Cryptic engine; they have permission to use it.  They can't give that away.  Determining what of the code is theirs and what is Cryptic's will be interesting, if possible.  There's lots of other parts of the system they've contracted out, and likely don't own, so can't make open source.

This doesn't mean they can't transfer the IP ownership and rights to someone - that's possible.  But that group wouldn't be able to open source them either - they don't own them.  They just have permission to use them.

This happens all the time in business, and means that even if the company wants to open source something, they often can't.  I know it was true for Eudora, the mail client.  I've been on other projects where it was definitely true, as well, but you won't have heard of them because they simply vanished when they company dropped them.

So, pushing NCsoft to release this Open Source may be doing more harm than good.  Get them to transfer rights to the IP to another operator.  That, they can do.

[Lock-On]

I dont' think NCsoft ever intended to let go of the IP. If you look at their history of not just American games, but Korean games, I don't think they've ever once sold or released any of their IP in the past 10 years.

They have not.  All the more reason, why coming up with an extraordinary solution will be required to get them to start doing it just for us.

So it is just me, or does this largely sum up to 'lets find a win win situation here?' Not that I think that's a bad thing or anything. And of course the devil is in the details.

Any solution that NCSoft does not see as a win for at least them, will not be taken seriously.  One of the reasons I like my proposed solution in the first post is that it removes any potential financial risk to NCSoft, something that would likely be required to even get to the negotiating table.  I suspect our benefactors in negotiations right now have already figured this out.  Or at least I hope they have.

[Sajaana]

I believe the thing that will get NCSoft to release its IP is really simple:

Time.

This live service, and this IP, loses value every day.  It'll continue to lose value after November 30th at a much more rapid pace.

People will forget and move on elsewhere.  The developers would have moved on.  Once it loses its usefulness as a tax writeoff, it'll just be in an archive.  And the longer time goes by, the less likely it is that anyone, anyone, will want to make a deal on it.

See, the time to buy this service isn't now, because the seller has the advantage.  The time to buy this service is a year or two from now.  Failing that, three years from now.  See, at that point, the buyer has the advantage.

That is assuming, of course, that we'll care at that point. Assuming that we do, there will probably come a point in time when NCSoft will be more than happy to unload a 2004-era property that has been just collecting dust in an archive, and the price will be far more favorable than now.

Oh, and by the way, hi (just joined today)

[Lock-On]

Why are you assuming that price is the primary motivation for not selling the game right now?

[Harermuir]

It has not to be an absolute win for NCsoft, it just have to cost them less than the other way around. Let's be clear, closing the game has a cost, mainly on the public relation side. When the titan network call for public action to show how we were treated by NCsoft and draw the light and our problem, it basically rise the cost. And they succeed to rise the cost to a point where NCsoft assume that they have something to do, so cost go no higher anymore. If we want to get NCsoft to release the IP, there is two way to go : make them as happy as we can if they released it. And make them as sad as we can as long as they dont released it. And that means shouting how much discontent customers we are.

[Sajaana]

Because I have a hard time believing that if the price was some ungodly amount, they still wouldn't sell it because of some intangible concern.

What other intangible concern would they have?  Competition?  If they are able to unload their 2004 property to their competition for a killing, they hurt their competition far more than they foster it.  Proprietary secrets?  Well, that may be a concern now, but will it be a concern a few years from now, when engine development and operating system optimization enables so much more?

[DrakeGrimm]

Because I have a hard time believing that if the price was some ungodly amount, they still wouldn't sell it because of some intangible concern.

What other intangible concern would they have?  Competition?  If they are able to unload their 2004 property to their competition for a killing, they hurt their competition far more than they foster it.  Proprietary secrets?  Well, that may be a concern now, but will it be a concern a few years from now, when engine development and operating system optimization enables so much more?

You really need to read more on the Kibun stuff. Just saying.

[Sajaana]

You really need to read more on the Kibun stuff. Just saying.

How better to honor their Kibun than to come to them, years later, seeing the virtue in what others may call "old trash" by giving them a respectful offer on it?
 

See, if we are all serious, really serious, about bringing City of Heroes back, it might be a good thing to think long term.  I mean, if we can't come up with a long range plan to secure the live service, how are we going to be able to come up with a long term plan to run the live service?

Because if we think rationally about this, if it's about securing the live service, time is on our side far more than it's on their side.  That is, of course, if we can survive that long past November 30th.  But that isn't up to me alone.  That's up to all of us.

[DrakeGrimm]

If I have any say at all they will never touch my City ever again.

[downix]

Even if we cannot get the game engine itself, opening up the IP or licensing it would enable... options.

[RedWolfeXR]

This is my 4th time having NC kill a game I was playing, after TR I quit buying.  (they did GIVE me a copy of Aion, and I played it a bit -- it was in no wise a replacement for TR) 

I seriously doubt they will release the code or sell it at all.  I hope to be wrong, and in fact I am HERE.  This is probably the most successful of the games they have killed but not by such a factor that it would be treated differently.  I have worked with Koreans and Korean companies, and "Kibun" isn't something I saw at corporate levels.  The "Company Face" was.  (a branch of Samsung and one of Hyundai, and of the two Samsung was the most successful at bridging the cultures of the US and Korea)

I have been playing around Issue 2, and CoH has always been the game I come back to.   

Would have sworn I had a Titan membership, but it seems not....

[emu265]

This is my 4th time having NC kill a game I was playing, after TR I quit buying.  (they did GIVE me a copy of Aion, and I played it a bit -- it was in no wise a replacement for TR) 

I seriously doubt they will release the code or sell it at all.  I hope to be wrong, and in fact I am HERE.  This is probably the most successful of the games they have killed but not by such a factor that it would be treated differently.  I have worked with Koreans and Korean companies, and "Kibun" isn't something I saw at corporate levels.  The "Company Face" was.  (a branch of Samsung and one of Hyundai, and of the two Samsung was the most successful at bridging the cultures of the US and Korea)

I have been playing around Issue 2, and CoH has always been the game I come back to.   

Would have sworn I had a Titan membership, but it seems not....

This is the impression I had, but I lacked anything to qualify it with.  Still, "kibun" could be useful in sending a message.

[Knightward]

Maybe it's the late hour (curse you insomnia!) but kibun and face struck me as being much the same concept.  I mean, it even says in the definition for kibun that part of it is face.  Maybe I'm overgeneralizing.  Granted, one is more nuanced with all its details and complexity.  But in the end, if you feel good, you probably look good; if you look bad, you probably feel bad.  And obviously when you're dealing with a collective entity like a corporation it doesn't have emotions as it isn't personal, but it DOES have an identity and reputation.  And generally in more collectivist cultures if you're operating in a collective entity means that your primary goal isn't climbing up the hierarchy, it's bettering the collective entity.  So we're probably better off not appealing to the individuals at the top, but rather appealing to the overall well being of NCSoft as a whole.  Ultimately, unless I'm missing something crucial (again, insomnia) as far as I can tell kibun and face are interchangeable regarding NCSoft.

So we stress that we're looking for a solution that betters the company (and obviously, saves the city).  The face-saving of their current strategy is largely negated by the PR storm that we are.  So they're left with little face (if not a loss of face) but they avoid potentially losing a lot of face especially if things become less financially secure in the future.  If we have face (both in terms of ethics/honor and aptitude, so essentially kibun) and financial options available to them in our correspondence we've got all our bases covered.  And I do stress options because, well, it would be impolite to back someone into a corner.  Seriously, I remember reading a couple of times in the links that have flown out of these boards that in Korean business dealings you don't want to corner someone into a yes/no answer.  And heroes have good/harmonious/[positive term #572] kibun.  Which makes us worth listening to.

TL;DR: Lock-On is a genius.  His idea in this thread is awesome.  I've got a good feeling about it.

[ET3D]

Great thread, Lock-On. Yesterday I was thinking about what could be done regarding purchasing the IP, and some of it fits what you suggest here. I also think it's a good idea to consider the Korean culture, and if we can find someone Korean to help us that would be great.

My thought was that if the IP can't be purchased, then it may be possible to "operate it", i.e., license it and provide NCsoft with a percentage of the profit (if any). That way NCsoft keeps control of the IP, lets someone else do the work, and might get some money. As you say, it's mutually beneficial.

Another option, which has less to do with the theme of this thread, is to try to buy just the game data and license to the game world, without the engine. This will allow building the game from scratch with compatibility for the old game. That's a huge undertaking, but I think that something like this could be Kickstarted.

[eeek]

If money isn't their concern right now, then it sounds as if our only leverage is their corporate reputation.

I don't think that they want to lose whatever rights to the game they own, because it could make them look bad.  If the game does well without NCSoft, that can make them look bad.  If we get the game, will we spend the next 5 years STILL bashing them, like we did Jack Emmert?  Why would they want to do this?  Why not let us all go to the 4 corners and possibly nurse our personal dissatisfaction... alone, where we can't hurt their reputation any? 

They require a heck of a strong motive to want to change an operating procedure that has been working for them. 

We did find something that does motivate them.  In fact, the only way we got any response from them at all was when they started to look bad, in a really big way.  Then they got their PR people to spin their message, by sounding caring, and reasonable.  We can't even refute anything they said about trying to negotiate in good faith.

We need to find a way to turn up the heat.  To let them know they really ARE trashing their corporate reputation if they don't leave us a way to save our game!

[RedWolfeXR]

Maybe it's the late hour (curse you insomnia!) but kibun and face struck me as being much the same concept.

They are somewhat different, the company face is the attitude and presentation that the company makes to the world.  Kibun is a bit more personal and is how people interact. 

In a good example of the company face, in Korea the receptionist to the customers is always young, pretty and single.  (not neccesarily female, but usually)  When any of those change, he/she is replaced.  Hyundai does that even in the US.  Samsung hires a security contractor and the check in guards would qualify as young and pretty.  I suspect the "single" part isn't as enforced in the US by either company....

/RW

[dwturducken]

I seriously doubt they will release the code or sell it at all.  I hope to be wrong, and in fact I am HERE.  This is probably the most successful of the games they have killed but not by such a factor that it would be treated differently.  I have worked with Koreans and Korean companies, and "Kibun" isn't something I saw at corporate levels.  The "Company Face" was.  (a branch of Samsung and one of Hyundai, and of the two Samsung was the most successful at bridging the cultures of the US and Korea)

Given your experiences over there, do you have anything you'd be willing to share in regards to Tony's latest thread?

[Lock-On]

I seriously doubt they will release the code or sell it at all.  I hope to be wrong, and in fact I am HERE.  This is probably the most successful of the games they have killed but not by such a factor that it would be treated differently.  I have worked with Koreans and Korean companies, and "Kibun" isn't something I saw at corporate levels.  The "Company Face" was.  (a branch of Samsung and one of Hyundai, and of the two Samsung was the most successful at bridging the cultures of the US and Korea)

This is why efforts like Tony's are so important.  Given our (somewhat better) understanding of the financials involved with NCSoft, convincing them that the goodwill generated from the sale would be in their best interests is the only option we have for breaking them out of their standard operating cycle of killing and burying the IP.

[Lock-On]

Even if we cannot get the game engine itself, opening up the IP or licensing it would enable... options.

Licensing seems unlikely to me given NCSoft's desire to shed any and all responsibility for the property from their books.  As for the game engine itself, well....I've avoided discussing that on purpose right now.  But that is a distinctly different and harder issue to deal with at the moment.

[Segev]

Licensing seems unlikely to me given NCSoft's desire to shed any and all responsibility for the property from their books.  As for the game engine itself, well....I've avoided discussing that on purpose right now.  But that is a distinctly different and harder issue to deal with at the moment.

Cryptic seems to be willing, at least, to discuss licensing the engine to an agency which wished to continue the game. What they'll charge for it is, of course, an open question, but I think their general thought is, "Why not? We like making money."

[Lock-On]

Cryptic seems to be willing, at least, to discuss licensing the engine to an agency which wished to continue the game. What they'll charge for it is, of course, an open question, but I think their general thought is, "Why not? We like making money."

I hope that that statement is true.  My primary concern is the possibility of less then scrupulous people at Cryptic (not naming names, I have no knowledge on this subject one way or another) realizing that they could in fact potentially kill a direct competitor.

But my knowledge of this particular subject is almost completely and utterly speculative and is just a worry.  It's not based on any particular fact(s), one way or another.

[RedWolfeXR]

Licensing seems unlikely to me given NCSoft's desire to shed any and all responsibility for the property from their books.  As for the game engine itself, well....I've avoided discussing that on purpose right now.  But that is a distinctly different and harder issue to deal with at the moment.

The problem is that nobody could cleanly take it quickly.  Even if they decided to sell it -- they would be stuck hosting it AND its billing until the new company got its servers and billing system up.  They would have to be paid by the buyer to host it and by definition would make LESS than they were when they shut it.

Even in the absolute best case where Paragon got to keep it and the current servers (which would have to be bought as well) there would be a long delay in setting up a new billing system.  (and all this time the microtransaction stream would be dry)

With the notice a lot of folks moved on already, as well, so its a smaller bucket.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but those complications are likely what NC meant when they  said they had researched it.  They didn't mean buyers, they meant the logistics.  Just think of the privacy issues involved in transferring billing data and account info...   

But I can promise they will pursue anyone that tries an emulator, rigorously.    My best guess is that they would just license the IP and then sell the servers and hardware if they did decide it was worth selling.  I can't imagine any scenario where they would admit they were mistaken and recant closing it themselves.

The fact is they know that the fervor to save the game will quickly fade in December, and with it the bad press.  All they are doign is delaying.

[Freefall]

• If the IP is sold, and the devs make a better game that steals revenue away from NCSoft, then a significant financial impact could occur for them.
  
• If the IP is sold and a better game is made, NCSoft also loses face for letting a profitable IP get away from them.

Actually, I disagree. The recent announcement by NCSoft is quite typical of a face-saving measure...let me try to explain how I see it, if face rather than money was the issue.

Being perceived as forced to backtrack by player anger, after publicly announcing they will sunset CoH, would be THE major loss of face in this whole affair. This means that they have lost their authority, and are now publicly shamed.

Therefore, there's no way NCSoft will backtrack. But if they ignore player anger, it is also bad for their face because they are now revealed as being inconsiderate/cruel to a community of people.

If I were NCSoft, what would I do? I would make an annoucement saying that I am trying to do something (e.g. selling CoH), but it was just not feasible, sorry players. In reality, I would avoid players, ignore them, put them through hoops. Or I would even meet with the representatives, but make up some excuse to justify not selling CoH. Because I know that as long as I can last until the closure of CoH, the problem will go away.

Now that NCSoft has annouced that they can't sell it, it would be an even more loss of face if they ended up selling. I think the only way forward is to persuade them to perform some kind of 'kindly gesture' or donation to charity type of thing for a token fee.

[Sajaana]

Let me ask you all a question.  Picture yourself five years from now.  If CoH closed this year, but reopened five years from now, would you be interested in playing?

You might have to start from scratch with your characters.  You might have to deal with a new monetization scheme.  You might have to settle for no development or very slow development.

But you'll have it: everything you have now, under new management.

Would that be something you could enjoy?  Would that be something you'd pay to experience?

Because that, to me, looks to be really possible and--more importantly--really probable.  Let me explain.

People say that NCSoft hasn't released Exteel, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, Dungeon Runners, and so on.  But let me ask you, has anyone really, as far as you know, tried to acquire them recently?

I mean recently, like this year, a few years after the games closed.  Because everybody and their uncles are interested in "saving" every two bit title when the services are still running.  But what about years afterword?

Because I'd have to imagine if there was any serious interest in those games from a buyer, a serious plan, and a fair price, NCSoft couldn't ignore the offer.  They can't, because the only thing a publisher can do with an out of print title is to unload it, if they can, for whatever they can get for it.

Publishers aren't archivists, and they don't even have an exclusive right to their IP after a certain time.  Not even patents and IPs last forever.  So, if they aren't making money off of running it, the only way they'll be able to make money off of it is to sell it.  And if they don't, the IP becomes worthless as it falls into public domain.

See, you have to understand the dynamics of publishing, because it really doesn't change as much as we think it does between film, books, music, films, or even games.  No matter what the medium may be, publishing is about the "backcatalogue" just as much as its about the "works in print."  And a work like a game, just like the work of a novelist, falls into obscurity over time, making the work less valuable the longer it stays "out of print" and out of the public eye.

Now I think there's a reason that nobody in 2012 has stepped up to buy Exteel, Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa off of NCSoft's backcatalogue: they were perceived as underdeveloped failures that are now, regrettably, too old and too obscure to be viable to most buyers.  But I'd have to imagine that if someone wanted them, they could get them, and at a steal, compared to what it would take to develop them from scratch.

I have no doubt that if someone wants this game, they could have it.  The rub is that it might take some time before it approaches the price they want.

[Segev]

Spur of the moment thought: I wonder if it would sweeten the pot any if a potential buyer offered to take some of those defunct games off their hands, as well.

I doubt it, but it's something to ponder.

[downix]

Spur of the moment thought: I wonder if it would sweeten the pot any if a potential buyer offered to take some of those defunct games off their hands, as well.

I doubt it, but it's something to ponder.

hmm. $80 million for CoH by itself is overpriced. Add in TR, AA, Exteel, DR... we might have something.

[Victoria Victrix]

Even in the absolute best case where Paragon got to keep it and the current servers (which would have to be bought as well) there would be a long delay in setting up a new billing system.

Just a TINY correction.  I have affirmative information that the servers themselves are leased from a farm in Dallas.  Someone here on the boards has a server in the same farm.

[RedWolfeXR]

If they had any interest in selling the timing wouldn't matter that much.  Its worth more NOW than it will be in 5 years, and they know that as well as we do.

NC hasn't EVER sold a title to ANYone that I can find in research.  They have bought titles, and developed them.   Actually (and unusual for the industry) Cryptic actually owned the IP and NC only published it.  The sale of the IP was done and Cryptic split due to the then-Marvel but now Champions IP they wanted to develop and the implied conflict of interest.

Heh, as far as I know Cryptic Studios is the only Dev to escape the maw of NC Soft after being partnered.  Too bad they didn't take their IP with them.

[RedWolfeXR]

Just a TINY correction.  I have affirmative information that the servers themselves are leased from a farm in Dallas.  Someone here on the boards has a server in the same farm.

Ah, I bet I know which one.  I drive by it every day.

Heh, if you are the VV I think YOU are then I am the RedWolfe you think I am.

[Victoria Victrix]

Ah, I bet I know which one.  I drive by it every day.

Heh, if you are the VV I think YOU are then I am the RedWolfe you think I am.

I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

[DrakeGrimm]

I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

Thought that was the last Die Hard...no? Oh. My bad.

[downix]

I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

Unfortunately for us, Tom is busy and all we could get if Dolph Lundgren....

[dwturducken]

Unfortunately for us, Tom is busy and all we could get if Dolph Lundgren....

So, straight to video, then?

[RedWolfeXR]

So, straight to video, then?

And One gets to be the comedy relief?

One has seen what happens to the comedy relief in these movies...  One passes....

[aerom13]

I'm very new to the forums and might not post a lot, but I want this game saved!  On the 3rd, you said, "goodwill. The course of action they have taken so far has only damaged their corporate image, and they are playing in a field where being labeled a game killer who does not care for its customers is NOT good."

Perhaps, even though this is a very weak idea, we should consider a way to leverage pressure on NCSoft, or just simply appeal (for the love of CoX!) somehow.
I'm here because I saw 'The JunkyardWarrior' outside city hall holding vigil on Virtue just today!  I joined the forum because of it and held vigil as well. 

We need to get some type of buzz, or viral video of us (or maybe our toons?) protesting the Nov 30 shut down.  All of us (toons) should hold round the clock vigils, and call the news media in each of our cities to let them in on our plight.  Our protest is without voice at this time otherwise.  And time is running out!  We need this to reach a fever pitch quickly, and gain the passions of the internet bloggers who may sympathize, and have connections that could help save the game.

'Is NCSoft hero or villain?' that should be the question, and let the 'internet court of opinion' help argue our point maybe?  (I'm up way too late, and venting a bit!)   

---

[Sajaana]

If they had any interest in selling the timing wouldn't matter that much.  Its worth more NOW than it will be in 5 years, and they know that as well as we do.

NC hasn't EVER sold a title to ANYone that I can find in research.  They have bought titles, and developed them.   Actually (and unusual for the industry) Cryptic actually owned the IP and NC only published it.  The sale of the IP was done and Cryptic split due to the then-Marvel but now Champions IP they wanted to develop and the implied conflict of interest.

Heh, as far as I know Cryptic Studios is the only Dev to escape the maw of NC Soft after being partnered.  Too bad they didn't take their IP with them.

Now let me ask you this.

Besides the offer by NetDevil to buy Auto Assault while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Auto Assault after it closed?

Besides the offer by Richard Garriott to but Tabula Rasa while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Tabula Rasa after it closed?

See, most of the reservations NCSoft would possibly have to turn down an offer while a service is running melt away after the service closes.  Moreover, whatever reservations they might have are overshadowed by a far more grave concern: that the asset they invested so many development dollars into is rapidly, and irrevocably, depreciating.

Seriously, do you think if someone came out, today, and made NCSoft an offer on their old junk, like Exteel, they wouldn't jump on it?

[Terwyn]

Now let me ask you this.

Besides the offer by NetDevil to buy Auto Assault while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Auto Assault after it closed?

Besides the offer by Richard Garriott to but Tabula Rasa while it was still running, has there been any attempt to buy Tabula Rasa after it closed?

See, most of the reservations NCSoft would possibly have to turn down an offer while a service is running melt away after the service closes.  Moreover, whatever reservations they might have are overshadowed by a far more grave concern: that the asset they invested so many development dollars into is rapidly, and irrevocably, depreciating.

Seriously, do you think if someone came out, today, and made NCSoft an offer on their old junk, like Exteel, they wouldn't jump on it?

There's merit to this if it works.

Hypothetically, we save City and get the rest along side of it.

Why then, wouldn't we incorporate those things which would make CoX stronger?

[Sajaana]

There's merit to this if it works.

Hypothetically, we save City and get the rest along side of it.

Why then, wouldn't we incorporate those things which would make CoX stronger?

I'm sure a new owner or licensee would be able to incorporate whatever they wanted.  But since these things take time, expertise, and money (which may be in short supply), I didn't want to dwell on these possibilities too much.

The most important thing, I would think, would be to purchase the service and get it into a position to open it up to the consuming public.  That alone would be a lot of work and require a lot of capital, and would be far better than what we have now.

[Mister Bison]

So in some research on my own, and in looking through the thread on Korean Kibun I think I'm starting to understand the logic behind the decisions that NCSoft is currently making.

First thread, http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5450.0.html

Based on that thread I can see 2 issues for NCSoft with letting go of the IP for City of Heroes

• If the IP is sold, and the devs make a better game that steals revenue away from NCSoft, then a significant financial impact could occur for them.
  
• If the IP is sold and a better game is made, NCSoft also loses face for letting a profitable IP get away from them.

3. Even if the IP is not sold, nor any better game is made, but the current game is kept alive at no cost, it takes paying customers away from them as they won't have time to spend on their games.
4. (or Z:) The IP is not sold and fans make a new game suitable for the needs of the current gamers. They still loose money, and this will definitely happen.

But, they have to see 5:
5. They sell the IP or license and so could still make money for it, better or not better game, if not much. Before the closing annoucement it made perfect sense to close, but they didn't know 4 could be real. Now that they know that, it won't be losing face since they could come honestly saying how devoted their fans were. Happy ending.

or 4.bis, another bad case: Cryptic sells another license to someone else and we start from the old version of the game. I just hope the contract with NCSoft wasn't an exclusive license.

[Quinch]

I don't suppose there is any chance you could assemble a team of ninjas to sneak into that building, find the CoH servers and....

WHAT?  I'm talking about a movie plot!  With Tom Cruise!

Nah, it wouldn't work. You need a floppy disk to copy the game onto, and I'm sure the servers don't use those.

[Valjean]

.....
Seriously, do you think if someone came out, today, and made NCSoft an offer on their old junk, like Exteel, they wouldn't jump on it?

I don't think they would.

We know they're sitting on a lot of cash. They're not concerned about profits from selling the game.

But you've got to wonder just how nervous the other NCsoft studios are, especially considering they just shut down one of their most popular games. And what do you think those studios have been thinking about doing?

[Guardia]

Wasn't one of the issues with kibun that if NCsoft sold the IP, and it did well, that would be seen as a failure on NCSoft's part, and also as lost future revenue in terms of both "that could have been OUR profitable game" and as competition?

As much as I don't like NCSoft retaining ownership, getting a licensing deal where they keep the IP may be more palatable to them. If the game does well under a licenced agreement, they get continued profits in terms of licensing fees, and they get to claim part of the glory of that success as the owners. If the game fails, they get to push the blame on the licensee while still retaining ownership.



-np

[Mantic]

Licensing would be a pretty great solution, solving some of the biggest problems NCSoft has had with Western studios. The purchaser of a license would not be beholden to top down management, nor would their performance be the responsibility of company execs. The licensor would know clearly what profit goals are needed to cover expenses and satisfy NCSoft month-to-month, and have the freedom to pursue their own means of meeting that goal.

But a plan that so cleanly eliminates bureaucracy? Seems a hard sell. ;/

[downix]

Licensing would be a pretty great solution, solving some of the biggest problems NCSoft has had with Western studios. The purchaser of a license would not be beholden to top down management, nor would their performance be the responsibility of company execs. The licensor would know clearly what profit goals are needed to cover expenses and satisfy NCSoft month-to-month, and have the freedom to pursue their own means of meeting that goal.

But a plan that so cleanly eliminates bureaucracy? Seems a hard sell. ;/

Pondering this some. Perhaps this is what the letter itself meant in the first place. They specifically said selling, nothing about licensing.

This is an angle which may work.

[Sajaana]

Wasn't one of the issues with kibun that if NCsoft sold the IP, and it did well, that would be seen as a failure on NCSoft's part, and also as lost future revenue in terms of both "that could have been OUR profitable game" and as competition?

As much as I don't like NCSoft retaining ownership, getting a licensing deal where they keep the IP may be more palatable to them. If the game does well under a licenced agreement, they get continued profits in terms of licensing fees, and they get to claim part of the glory of that success as the owners. If the game fails, they get to push the blame on the licensee while still retaining ownership.



-np

I honestly don't think that NCSoft looks at it that way, with the "losing face" and the "risk of competition."  Even in a business like professional sports, which is far more tied to escoteric concerns like "saving face" and "public relations" than game publishing is, owners and general managers have no problem trading players around if the deal is right.  But even if NCSoft do look at things in the way that's been batted around, a lot of these concerns go away with time.

Why do I stress time so much?  Well, to be quite honest, I think its the big 800lb gorilla in the room that we in the "Save CoH Movement" aren't talking about.  Because I see a lot of desparation here, like if the future of the game isn't secured by November 30th, the game is gone forever and there's no hope for it ever coming back.

And that's just simply not accurate.  Who knows what things will look like in a few years?  Perhaps NCSoft will go bankrupt, and the game will fall under receivership at fire sale prices.  Perhaps SoE would be able to get this game on the cheap in two years time (Just because they say they aren't interested doesn't mean that they aren't interested, or won't be interested in the future).  Perhaps one of us will get into the publishing business and will have the plan and the backing to secure this service and make it available.

And those who are aware of these possibilities, and plan for them, will be in a much better position to take advantage of them than those who are acting out of desparation in the moment.

But I'll tell you this much.  If the game is going to close, I'd much rather have it close under an NCSoft than by a fly-by-night ad hoc company who might not store it well, or ruin it, or make it unsellable because of blunders.  Because, when I think about it more and more, I'm starting to consider that perhaps NCSoft really does love this game, and isn't going to sell it to just anyone, but to the person or group who has a sound plan and the financial strength to act as good stewards of it.

[healix]

But I'll tell you this much.  If the game is going to close, I'd much rather have it close under an NCSoft than by a fly-by-night ad hoc company who might not store it well, or ruin it, or make it unsellable because of blunders.  Because, when I think about it more and more, I'm starting to consider that perhaps NCSoft really does love this game, and isn't going to sell it to just anyone, but to the person or group who has a sound plan and the financial strength to act as good stewards of it.

That is a very interesting take. It's good to see things through new eyes to expand your ideas/opinions.

[Flamazing Sally]

I do NOT see how murdering a game and its community can be considered to be 'good stewards'.  Not my idea of good stewardship at all.

[Sajaana]

I do NOT see how murdering a game and its community can be considered to be 'good stewards'.  Not my idea of good stewardship at all.

And you know, there are times--even now--when I feel the same way.

And when I do, I think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWYel8WkZJ4

That was the game I played before CoH.  Its name was Seed.

See, I was there in the last days.  The game was beyond alpha bad as far as quality control, the result of overbearing VCs and investors wanting to push it out before its time.  Yet we still played--and paid--because we believed in each other and the game.  See, the development crew were by far the most intelligent, friendly, and player-centric devs I've ever met.  We also had the best community: no unicorns, no jerks, and everybody got along.

And, one day, the message came out that Runestone was bankrupt and the game would close in a week.  Within days, the entire project was chopped up, sold piecemeal to whoever would pay, never to rise again.

You talk about murder?  Seed was butchered by VCs.

You see, I may have liked Seed, and I may have had high hopes for what could happen with it.  But there's really no use hoping, because the way matters went down pretty much assured that Seed's concept and game would never rise again.  And that is something that still--to this day--hurts me inside.

Not that CoH's closing doesn't hurt as well.  It does.  But at least the way this game and IP has positioned itself over the years gives me hope in what is possible after it closes.  The fundamentals are strong.  It's got good technology.  It's stable.  It's got a compelling IP.  It has exposure.  A robust fan base.  Critical acclaim.  It may be a used car from 2004, but if you kick the tires and take it for a spin, it's rock solid.

With Seed, however, there is no hope...it is truly dead. And the reason it died have more to do with the matters I discussed earlier: a solid business plan.  Financial strength.  Without any of that, whatever was good about it just ended up on the chop shop auction block and sold to the squatters or the rinky-dink setups who will fold in three months, never to be seen again.

And the most tragic thing that could happen is if the publisher gets duped with the lure of quick money to someone who doesn't know what they are doing, like a Farlan (Dark and Light) or a Limitless Horizons Entertainment (Age of Mourning).  Because, if they do, there will be no hope.

[Victoria Victrix]

I don't think they would.

We know they're sitting on a lot of cash. They're not concerned about profits from selling the game.

Actually this is a misapprehension.   They are not sitting on a lot of cash, in fact, they posted a $7 million loss last quarter.  All the assertions that NCSoft are sitting on a lot of cash are based on a report someone dug up elsewhere that was dated 2009.  That was when games were still robust and "recession-proof."  As we know, a lot of those things that were touted to be "recession-proof"...weren't.

NCSoft has been extremely secretive about their actual worth and how much money they are sitting on (if any) but it is more than fair to say that 2009 report is probably nowhere near reflective of their current state of affairs after selling only 2 million copies of GW2 when they expected to sell 6.

[Codewalker]

Actually, we have a fairly good idea, since as a publicly held company, they are required to disclose that information.

The NCSoft parent company, at the end of 2011, had 599,726,837,623 KRW of quick assets (assets that are cash or can be easily converted to cash, including accounts receivable but excluding inventory). At today's exchange rate, that's $540 million USD.

They also had 139,898,990,450 KRW ($126 million) in current liabilities, and 40,593,027,020 KRW ($36 million) of long-term liabilities.

That makes around $373 million in cash if they were to pay off all their outstanding debt, which is something that companies never do, since it's more efficient to keep some debt and invest the cash to make money.

That may have changed somewhat since Janurary, but that number is $46m lower than 2010, but $96m higher than 2009, so I doubt it's dropped dramatically, even with their posted loss. $7 million barely touches that.

From an accounting point of view, that's a really, really high current ratio. Were I an investor, I'd be asking why they have so much free cash on hand that isn't invested in projects to generate more revenue. That is a lot to be sitting on.

Source: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/financial02.aspx

[Valjean]

NCsoft does have a lot of cash, particularly in Korea. Even if COH was unprofitable (which we know it wasn't), they have more than enough in the bank to fund new projects such as Blade & Soul. The COH operational costs were a drop in the bucket for them.

[Moonfyire101]

I got it! I have the solution! We dress up as CoH and CoV characters and storm into their office and demand justice! Or immanat destruction if they don't comply!

[VyoletRose]

For the cause -
   

[Moonfyire101]

For the cause -
   

nice, you have a link to this for download?

[VyoletRose]

It's just a rough draft. The pngs here are pretty much it, until I can re-create it in Illustrator at work and make vector and bigger.

But here's links anyhow
Heroes http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Heroes.png
Villains http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Villains.png

[Lily Barclay]

Small critique, you might try to make the I and the P a little more distinct from each other. I had a hard time understanding it at first, and it might be harder for someone not familiar with SaveCoH. At first glance it looks like a fat P. Or it did to me anyway. Maybe just make the blue and red lines a little fatter. /pickydesigner

[VyoletRose]

Gotcha gotcha - good critique, got my gears turning. I'll mess with it some more this weekend

[Mantic]

Why do I stress time so much?  Well, to be quite honest, I think its the big 800lb gorilla in the room that we in the "Save CoH Movement" aren't talking about.  Because I see a lot of desparation here, like if the future of the game isn't secured by November 30th, the game is gone forever and there's no hope for it ever coming back.

And that's just simply not accurate.

I hope that message gets around. It is so disheartening to see this in the community. If the game is not sold by Nov. 30... If there is no emulated server by Nov. 30... If there is no word whatsoever by Nov. 30...

So what? Are you pacing yourselves and looking at that night as the end of your marathon? Yes, there are some things that are only possibe before November 30, but they're mostly related to preservation efforts of the community (and any like-minded individuals still working in the Paragon Studios building(s)).

The only way the game stops being salable or license-able is if NCSoft destroy it (accidentally or otherwise). So there is no reason pressure should let up at all after November 30. As Sajaana suggests, barring anything like that happens, our hope of making such deals are only likely to improve farther down the road.

[Segev]

Mantic makes a good point. Nov. 30 is the last day we can hope for a Hail Mary that keeps the game running without major interruption. That does not mean this community nor this effort are over! And I hope Mantic and others will join with me in encouraging everybody involved to, on Dec. 1, if the servers have gone dark the day before, to stay involved. It may not be worthwhile to make a specific event for Dec. 1, but I think by Nov. 15 we should have some ideas for IRL and virtual events to span over the first six months of 2013. Keeping up the pressure on NCSoft, showing them that what they've done is never going away unless and until they find a solution we find acceptable.

Stay focused on plans as we know them for now, and hope that Nov. 30 is NOT the final day that CoH runs. But if it is, remember that the changes involved in the situation are not necessarily all bad, and that the IP begins to drop in value. If the pressure keeps up and NCSoft gains more and more bad PR even as the IP gets older and colder in their pockets, it may be that whatever circumstances guiding their stubbornness at this stage will be sufficiently changed that they will feel less intransigent.

[Segev]

Thanks! Edited mine, too.

[VyoletRose]

Edited.


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Villains-1.png


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Heroes-1.png

[Lily Barclay]

*thumbs up* 

[Shadow Fox]

"...please return to the table nsoft.  It is your departure from the effort that shames us all.  To redeem face is to find a solution for we do not accept the name of our world written in red ink.  We must wash that hated color away...that is how we can all restore ourselves to harmony."

I like this and I like the idea of some other company 'taking up the mantle' with NCSoft investing in it at little risk to themselves.

I understand their decisions as of late have been exceedingly 'unconventional' and I feel they are unlikely to take this course of action given what I've seen so far.

I would however be willing to wait for a new game to come out. 2 years, 3 years...Just keep me posted so I know when it comes out! I can't be taken away from a socially interactive, immersive super-hero game for a martial arts fantasy game just because the graphics are more up-to-date. It isn't the genre I want to play.

[Ichaerus]

Edited.


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Villains-1.png


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Heroes-1.png

Now you just need to make one for us Praetorians, as we're helping with the fight too  , whether Loyalist or Resistance.

[Sir Zues]

So, if COH was a profit making game and GW2 came up short on sales, than it makes no sense for them to shut COH down.  If they are so determined to shut it down. Why don't they just sell or give the IP to Paragon Studios since they let Paragon Studios go.  The HQ for NC Soft is not very smart.  That explains why their losing stocks.  Aoin was a flop also.  I want my COH. Dang you NC Soft....dang you....

[Burnt Toast]

I liked...and used this on twitter

Edited.


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Villains-1.png


http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/VyoletRose/Free_the_IP_Heroes-1.png

[RedWolfeXR]

So, if COH was a profit making game and GW2 came up short on sales, than it makes no sense for them to shut COH down.  If they are so determined to shut it down. Why don't they just sell or give the IP to Paragon Studios since they let Paragon Studios go.  The HQ for NC Soft is not very smart.  That explains why their losing stocks.  Aoin was a flop also.  I want my COH. Dang you NC Soft....dang you....

Its a matter of them placating their Korean shareholders.  Stock prices are not directly coupled to performance, but to percieved performance.  Thats why failing to meet their numbers (even if the last game to sell this well was SWTOR which broke records) their stock takes a hit.

They are hoping that tossing a title to the wolves here will placate their stockholders THERE and they will get more back due to stock gains than they lose on the marginal income from CoH.  They are sitting on a HALF BILLION in reserves at the moment.   A game that makes at best 10 million a year isn't a blip on their radar.

If they were any other company they would probably sell their titles -- most other asian companies would.  NC Soft actually reminds me (a lot) of Apple.  Apple is sitting on huge reserves as well, and when was the last time they sold IP?