Fool me Six Times!

[Segev]

You know, I've never really wanted to be a telepath. It just hasn't been an interesting power to me. But in real life, there is a lot I would give for the ability to simply understand what people think their reasons for doing things are. I hate not understanding why people take what, to me, seem to be utterly foolish actions and positions.

[chaparralshrub]

Actually, I would like to see the U.S. legislature smash NCSoft with Theodore Roosevelt's anti-trust legislation if this really does go through.

[Segev]

Actually, I would like to see the U.S. legislature smash NCSoft with Theodore Roosevelt's anti-trust legislation if this really does go through.

Ugh. Not only is this entirely an incorrect application of anti-trust law, but it's destructive to the potential of any company daring to try to run something like CoH ever again.

[uninventive]

I'm of a mixed opinion about South Korea.

What sucks: NCSoft, Nexon, Samsung (try getting warranty service on your Galaxy SIII without your phone company's help, and you'll quickly agree with this sentiment), their Manga (Man-wa, as they call it.)
What rocks: Their food (Kimchi, Korean BBQ, etc), their movies, not to mention the fact that although they're living right next door to a dictatorship they still manage to keep their heads up.  If America shared a physical border with China, I don't think we'd act the same way at all.

Just wanted to point out my issue is with NCSoft, not with Eastern/Western MMO populations.  I don't oppose Korean-made games in the US (MMO or otherwise), just as long as it's not from NCSoft/Nexon... but I'm not going to tell people to stop playing those titles until COH actually is 100% offline.  Call me optimistic, but there's still time for NCSoft to right itself.  Closer to November, I'll change my tune.

[Golden Girl]

If you're looking to turn this into a meme, link it to the "fear is the mind killer" speech from Dune for added pop culture geek-cred.

[Atlantea]

If you're looking to turn this into a meme, link it to the "fear is the mind killer" speech from Dune for added pop culture geek-cred.

Ok...?  I'm not quite sure I follow you here? I mean - I KNOW the reference... But...

Fear is the mind killer

NCSoft is the MMO Killer

Okay. The cadence is about right. I guess we'd need a modification of the rest of the verse.

[Sekoia]

I'll take a stab...

I will not support NCsoft.
NCsoft is the MMO-killer.
NCsoft is the little-death that brings total obliteration
To the games it owns.
I must watch it pass over me and ignore me.
And when it has gone past I will turn back to play the MMO I love,
But where NCsoft has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

[Knightslayer]

It's just that Lucasarts FORCED them to pull it. They had no choice.

That doesn't surprise me, after I heard how they forced Obsidian to release KOTOR2 when it wasn't complete yet, I worry about each development studio that has to deal with those jerks.

[TimtheEnchanter]

I think it was more like EA forced LA and then LA forced SOE.

EA has a no-competition clause in their contract with LA for the production of Star Wars MMO's until who the heck knows when.

It's the NFL/John Madden BS all over again.

[eabrace]

I'll take a stab...

I will not support NCsoft.
NCsoft is the MMO-killer.
NCsoft is the little-death that brings total obliteration
To the games it owns.
I must watch it pass over me and ignore me.
And when it has gone past I will turn back to play the MMO I love,
But where NCsoft has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

This requires me getting a screenshot of my main character giving the thumbs up with the words "B. SAMSON APPROVED" stamped on it. 

[Zolgar]

Just a point here. If CoH goes dark and can't be saved, there's going to be a large number of us, very angry, and with a ton of newly discovered free time on our hands. Wonder how big a 'splash' we can make over the course of the next six months, to a year. Look at what we've done in a few weeks.

Yeah, but gamers never stick to their boycotts. Especially not ones who are not personally invested in the cause of the boycott.

If EVERY CoH subscriber were to cut all ties to NCSoft, they probably still wouldn't take notice.
If in a year, we could get a massive 'boycott' of NCSoft put together, it would only hold out, really, until their next new shiny released in the US, then all the sheep gamers would go "ooh, shiny!" and run out and buy it, leaving it just the people who really have any stake in the fight.. which in a years time, how many people will still be as vehement about it as they are now?

And even then.. let's just say we somehow managed to by some miracle.. create such a boycott that it caused NCSoft to lose all their NA market.
First of all, bye-bye Arena.Net, additionally all NA NCSoft offices would be closed, any other NA based developer they have would be let go.. so basically, because of our actions, lots of innocent bystanders would lose their jobs. For what? To make a point and cost NCSoft less than 10% of their income?

[Victoria Victrix]

Stay on target.

Target: Since NCSoft is committed to closing CoH, pressure NCSoft to release the IP to someone who will support it.

[chaparralshrub]

Ugh. Not only is this entirely an incorrect application of anti-trust law, but it's destructive to the potential of any company daring to try to run something like CoH ever again.

Point. Comment retracted, at least until it is evident that there never will be something like CoH ever again. Then, well, I'll hold my peace.

[cptbarcode]

And even then.. let's just say we somehow managed to by some miracle.. create such a boycott that it caused NCSoft to lose all their NA market.
First of all, bye-bye Arena.Net, additionally all NA NCSoft offices would be closed, any other NA based developer they have would be let go.. so basically, because of our actions, lots of innocent bystanders would lose their jobs. For what? To make a point and cost NCSoft less than 10% of their income?

Those are acceptable losses.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Yeah, but gamers never stick to their boycotts. Especially not ones who are not personally invested in the cause of the boycott.

If EVERY CoH subscriber were to cut all ties to NCSoft, they probably still wouldn't take notice.
If in a year, we could get a massive 'boycott' of NCSoft put together, it would only hold out, really, until their next new shiny released in the US, then all the sheep gamers would go "ooh, shiny!" and run out and buy it, leaving it just the people who really have any stake in the fight.. which in a years time, how many people will still be as vehement about it as they are now

Heh... you think this just applies to gamers?

And even when it's something even more important... such as blatant rights violations (think EA's Origin software, which gives them the right to download your entire hard drive if they feel its in their best interests). That had a boycott. Origin still has over 10 million users.

Though their stocks dropped like a stone this year, but apparently that is due to overspending on SWTOR. That's the theory anyhow.

[Zolgar]

Heh... you think this just applies to gamers?

And even when it's something even more important... such as blatant rights violations (think EA's Origin software, which gives them the right to download your entire hard drive if they feel its in their best interests). That had a boycott. Origin still has over 10 million users.

Though their stocks dropped like a stone this year, but apparently that is due to overspending on SWTOR. That's the theory anyhow.

A boycott of a company only has as much weight as their actual customers who partake in the boycott. NCSoft's customers are gamers. Non-gamers involved in the boycott.

Otherwise, you're making my point for me: even a MASSIVE boycott over something far more "important" than "an old game being retired" doesn't hardly phase a company. -my extreme case example was more of "absolute best case scenario for getting a powerful enough boycott that they take notice". which we just don't have the power and reach to do.

[Victoria Victrix]

Boycott?  Probably wouldn't make any difference to them.

Tainting future products?  From this very post, it is clear that is happening, and I don't think the voices are going to be silenced. 

Picture the gamer with $X to spare.  Two new shinies out.  This one is supported by a solid company that keeps its old warhorses alive as long as there is interest.  That one has a history of yanking games out from under customers--and resorting to outright fraud and forgery (Tabula Rasa) to do so.  Five out of their twelve games, in fact....not good odds.

I know where my money would go.

[DrakeGrimm]

I think the point here, is that they're the ones scorching the earth.



...we're just willing to salt it after.

[TimtheEnchanter]

A boycott of a company only has as much weight as their actual customers who partake in the boycott. NCSoft's customers are gamers. Non-gamers involved in the boycott.

Otherwise, you're making my point for me: even a MASSIVE boycott over something far more "important" than "an old game being retired" doesn't hardly phase a company. -my extreme case example was more of "absolute best case scenario for getting a powerful enough boycott that they take notice". which we just don't have the power and reach to do.

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. I just don't think this problem only exists on the internet. No matter how organized people are, the general populous can never hope to be as organized as a corporation. And the fools are always the largest demographic in human society, so while the people who know what's up, are out there fighting, the "sheep" are just going to keep doing whatever it is that marketing tell them to. And if not for that reason, than because it's just easier to just keep shopping wherever you have been, instead of putting yourself at an inconvenience for potentially years in order to "siege" an immoral company.

[Zolgar]

Boycott?  Probably wouldn't make any difference to them.

Tainting future products?  From this very post, it is clear that is happening, and I don't think the voices are going to be silenced. 

Picture the gamer with $X to spare.  Two new shinies out.  This one is supported by a solid company that keeps its old warhorses alive as long as there is interest.  That one has a history of yanking games out from under customers--and resorting to outright fraud and forgery (Tabula Rasa) to do so.  Five out of their twelve games, in fact....not good odds.

I know where my money would go.

You are absolutely, positively right..

The problem is.. how wide is our reach really? Maybe .. 20% of the NA gamers who would otherwise pick up an NCSoft game will decide not to? So we cost them another.. ~1.5-2% of their annual income? They probably won't even notice the fluctuation.

Too much of the game industry doesn't pay attention to publishers.. hell they don't even pay much heed to developers outside of "OMG it's Valve/Bethesda/Blizzard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111oneone"*fanboygasm*

I probably won't do another NCSoft MMO again, I'm not positive if I'll even do another P2P anytime soon. It's a safe bet that a lot of the people REALLY ingrained in the fight to save CoH will not buy from NCSoft again, and I am sure there will be a percentage who will see NCSoft's track record, and will at least think long and hard about picking up another of their games. Is that number going to be enough to even cause a blip on NCSoft's radar though?