rebuild COH

[Doc Artz]

What ever happened to the rebirth of COH? The developers and staff  are doing a great job and have brought us where we never thought we'd see again. We hear how tightly NCsoft is holding onto the PR of COH. Marvel lost against NCsoft.
Here's my suggestion:  Why not just go on the offensive and build/re-build COH to the closest issue to 24? Go ahead and let NCsoft sue for infringing on their proprietary rights (PR). What are they going to do request a cease and desist of something they are already allowing us to use? Recently Apple sued Samsung for PR violations and lost on the ruling of "common knowledge". I think it's time to go on the offensive. I bet a dollar to a donut NCsoft does nothing. 8)

[aXe]

Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak. As much as we all miss CoH, none of us should expect anyone to get into huge trouble over a video game.

Besides, negotiations for its re release are still ongoing. It would be foolhardy to destroy those efforts, especially since they've been ongoing for years.

[Paragon Avenger]

NCSoft won't come after you ... for donuts.

[Doc Artz]

NCSoft won't come after you ... for donuts.

So someone else sees that NCsoft's a whimp! it would cost them far too much money and there were be the key question, "Why are you suing COT/Paragon if you're allowing them access to the very same zones"? I rest my case. After all it was getting heavy ;D
8)

[Codewalker]

Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak.

It's also very easy to suggest someone else putting in all the hard work to recreate something that represents 11 or 12 years of continuous development.

I've yet to see anyone put forward a solid plan to do so that doesn't involve handwaving numerous developers out of thin air who have the chops to reverse engineer something of that scope, forwards engineer something compatible with it, and enough free time to spend on it.

But by all means, if you the proverbial reader have the skills and manpower to do something like that, and the resources to withstand whatever legal assault NCSoft mounts (hint: google Aion private servers in Japan, or the Tabula Rasa emulator), go for it.

[Reaper]

If only someone had suggested this sooner!  All this time...

[Vee]

I propose three teams: team one will remake the game perfectly. hell, go ahead and upgrade the engine etc. and allow for game updates. team two will be in charge of discovering a parallel earth where CoH never existed and a way to transport us all there (the latter might be trivial given Joshex's Beyonder powers). Team three will be in charge of parallel earth logistics such as setting up our identities, housing, funding etc. so that we're all able to play as much as we want when we get there.

[doc7924]

If only someone had suggested this sooner!  All this time...

DOH!

[Doc Artz]

Its very easy for you to suggest this while letting others take the potentailly life ruining legal flak. As much as we all miss CoH, none of us should expect anyone to get into huge trouble over a video game.

Besides, negotiations for its re release are still ongoing. It would be foolhardy to destroy those efforts, especially since they've been ongoing for years.

It may not be fool  hardy if the PR is abandoned  ;):
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proprietary software which is no longer marketed, supported or sold by its owner is called "abandon ware" and the digital form of orphaned works.
If the proprietor of a software package should cease to exist, or decide to cease or limit production or support for a proprietary software package, recipients and users of the package may have no recourse if problems are found with the software.  Proprietors can fail to improve and support software because of business problems.  Support for older or existing versions of a software package may be ended to force users to upgrade and pay for newer versions (Planned obsolescence).  Sometimes another vendor or a software's community themselves can provide support for the software, or the users can migrate to either competing systems with longer support life cycles or to FOSS-based systems.
Realistically and for practical purposes, COH has been abandoned.
why would NCsoft ever waste their money or  time seeking  an injunction on something they have abandoned? Neither I  nor does anyone else  know what NCsoft would do. I believe  NCsoft will do what is cheapest and easiest for this mess, which they created, to just go away.
  8)

[Leandro]

why would NCsoft ever waste their money or  time seeking  an injunction on something they have abandoned? Neither I  nor does anyone else  know what NCsoft would do. I believe  NCsoft will do what is cheapest and easiest for this mess, which they created, to just go away.

Tabula Rasa was also abandoned. NCsoft hit them with a Cease & Desist order regardless. We know what they would do, because they've already done it.

[saipaman]

If you have lawyers on your payroll, then it costs you almost nothing to take these actions.

[GladDog]

I have read any number of articles on this subject.  All of this has to take into consideration a couple of things;

1) Matt Miller said the code for CoH had devolved into spagetti.  Remaking it would be a nightmare.
2) According to everything I have read, there were legal reasons that they shut down CoH, not monetary ones.  Until those issues are resolved, I doubt we will see CoH reborn or CoH2.

That said, there is a legal precedent in the US.  It was ruled that a game that could not be accessed because there are no authentication servers could be accessed without penalty, assuming there is available server software.  This means that if you have viable server software for a game abandoned by the game creator, you can use your own authentication system and restart the game.

That said, refer back to point number 1.  It would probably take a dedicated team years to rebuild the code for CoH, and there would be no hope at all of regaining your old characters and stuff.

Also, number 2.  While it is obvious that NCsoft has given up on CoH, at least for now, they are still defending the trademark.  This eliminates the abandonment angle and gives them the right to sue anyone that tries to recreate the game.

[Ironwolf]

Except a group is working to buy the game and there were no legal reasons it was shut down.

It was shutdown because NCSoft was moving to the Asian market and CoH did not make enough money to keep open. It was business and nothing personal on the shutdown - things got personal on the effort to rebuy.

[Doc Artz]

Tabula Rasa was also abandoned. NCsoft hit them with a Cease & Desist order regardless. We know what they would do, because they've already done it.

I certainly understand the skepticisms of those who fear the major cost of retribution from NCSoft. I've also, as have many others, been researching  the pros and cons of open source and the topic is vast and still unclear to say the least. 
-------------------------------------
"An Open Source Alternative:  However, contractual terms differ from one game maker to another with respect to the rights that players may have to the virtual property that they create. For example, in 2003, Linden Lab allowed subscribers to retain full intellectual property protection in content that they create. Conversely, other game makers, such as Blizzard Entertainment, retain ownership in their games and virtual property. In December 2005, Marvel Entertainment Inc. settled a lawsuit with NCSoft Corp. on the issue of whether players, using a content creation engine in the game, could create avatars that resembled famous Marvel comic characters such as Spider-Man. Although the terms of the settlement were undisclosed, NCSoft said that the parties' settlement does not reduce the players' ability to express their creativity in making and playing original and exciting characters.

The application of open source to a virtual world would remove control of the online game from the hands of a corporate game maker by allowing the evolution of the game to be accomplished through the contributions of individuals. In such a scenario, the players would be obligated to sign public license agreements, thereby removing any proprietary interest that they may have in the game or its virtual property. Some content that by creating a world where liked-minded players with no proprietary interest in the game or its property participate, many of the legal issues surrounding virtual property would essentially be eliminated." http://www.law360.com/articles/5280/can-virtual-property-gain-legal-protection
8)

[Doc Artz]

I propose three teams: team one will remake the game perfectly. hell, go ahead and upgrade the engine etc. and allow for game updates. team two will be in charge of discovering a parallel earth where CoH never existed and a way to transport us all there (the latter might be trivial given Joshex's Beyonder powers). Team three will be in charge of parallel earth logistics such as setting up our identities, housing, funding etc. so that we're all able to play as much as we want when we get there.

I personally think that's a great idea to cover our butts. Only team two could be accused of virtual mugging or assaulting other characters in an online game to steal their assets. If NCsoft comes after us, then drop team one.  :)
8)

[Brigadine]

What ever happened to the rebirth of COH? The developers and staff  are doing a great job and have brought us where we never thought we'd see again. We hear how tightly NCsoft is holding onto the PR of COH. Marvel lost against NCsoft.
Here's my suggestion:  Why not just go on the offensive and build/re-build COH to the closest issue to 24? Go ahead and let NCsoft sue for infringing on their proprietary rights (PR). What are they going to do request a cease and desist of something they are already allowing us to use? Recently Apple sued Samsung for PR violations and lost on the ruling of "common knowledge". I think it's time to go on the offensive. I bet a dollar to a donut NCsoft does nothing. 8)

Why didn't we think of rebuilding the game?

[Reaper]

I have to admit I laughed right out loud when I saw the voting option appear.  If only there was an option that said "I was secretly holding a copy of the rebuilt product and thought it would be funny to sit on it for a while."

Although "Yes" is probably the best answer.   ;)

[chuckv3]

Doc, We've already been over this (AD NAUSEUM) in these forums about what we'd like:
- We want the original game running somewhere (the SERVER pieces)
- We want the IP rights so we can include thematic tie-ins (zones, characters, story lines) within the successor efforts
- We want the legal option to write a work-alike of the original with updated graphics (SERVER and/or CLIENT)

Also, there are already 4 efforts to recreate the game or a successor, and an effort to secure the IP and a backup of the server components.

[Doc Artz]

Doc, We've already been over this (AD NAUSEUM) in these forums about what we'd like:
- We want the original game running somewhere (the SERVER pieces)
- We want the IP rights so we can include thematic tie-ins (zones, characters, story lines) within the successor efforts
- We want the legal option to write a work-alike of the original with updated graphics (SERVER and/or CLIENT)

Also, there are already 4 efforts to recreate the game or a successor, and an effort to secure the IP and a backup of the server components.

;D I'm more than appreciative  to hear all that's happening and the continued work by everyone involved. Let's face it, sometimes one may need to try a different approach to get what we want by learning what they don't want. I still believe we should keep on "stirring the rice pot"  <-- poor choice of a metaphors, and hear as many response as possible. Spending literally hours  poring  :roll:  through both the National and International laws concerning Proprietary Rights has been a learning experience for many.  They're NOT a "sacred  cow" <---another poor choice of a metaphor, especially when it comes to online gaming. Keep up the good work and thank you for the information.  COH will return!!
8)

[Vee]

i don't have the foggiest idea what your poorly chosen metaphors are supposed to invoke but i feel skeevy nonetheless.