Author Topic: Most Played Tank Builds  (Read 25138 times)

Auroxis

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 06:57:54 AM »
And thats the problem with Fire.. you have to so all that stuff just to get a good build out of it when you do that with any other tank build much easier.. I mean look at your comment..

With BARRIER ??

Come on seriously.. Barrier ?? 


Building around a Destiny power was legit strategy. A character should be judged by the sum of its parts, since synergy with destiny powers varied. If Barrier takes your FA tanker with Cardiac from 84% S/L resistance and 40% M/R/A defense to 90% S/L resistance and 45% M/R/A defense then that's a benefit you can't just brush aside as "pfft, incarnate powers don't count".

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2015, 01:43:54 AM »
Building around a Destiny power was legit strategy. A character should be judged by the sum of its parts, since synergy with destiny powers varied. If Barrier takes your FA tanker with Cardiac from 84% S/L resistance and 40% M/R/A defense to 90% S/L resistance and 45% M/R/A defense then that's a benefit you can't just brush aside as "pfft, incarnate powers don't count".

Barrier caps everything by itself.. it doesnt need anything to help it.. and since you cannot use it for until level 50 at least.. for me its not a planned strategy...


Auroxis

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2015, 05:13:58 AM »
During half of Barrier's duration it gives 5% resistance and 5% defense, it only gives a huge boost at the start. And the level 50 requirement is shared by most IO builds as well, are you gonna disregard those too?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 05:20:04 AM by Auroxis »

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 02:03:16 AM »
During half of Barrier's duration it gives 5% resistance and 5% defense, it only gives a huge boost at the start. And the level 50 requirement is shared by most IO builds as well, are you gonna disregard those too?

 Well I guess your talking about Purple IO's. I rarely if even planned a tank build using Purple IO's. In fact looking at every tank build I have none of them have Purple IO's. Some have Hami-O's but they can be used @ level 47.

 I took Barrier on quite a few characters. As well as other incarnate powers. But I didn't plan my build around them especially for defense or resistance..

 And in the case of Fire Armor it was still one of the weaker Primary Sets for tanks.. I had fun with mine.. but the Devs purposefully made it weak because Fire had more offensive capability.. Could you tank with it.. sure.. would other sets outshine it.. if built well.. usually..

Auroxis

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 06:49:12 AM »
Level 47 is not that different from level 50. Lots of people had non-purple level 50 set IO's in their build like mako's bite, luck of the gambler, thunderstrike, etc. Yes you could go with lower levels on those, but you had to settle for lesser enhancement bonuses and a higher price tag as a trade-off.

And with slot allocation all builds were technically not complete until level 50.

Fire Armor is definitely the squishiest primary before IO's and incarnate buffs, but once you add them up I'd say it reaches the point of equaling or surpassing defense-based primaries like SR, Ice and SD in tanking, while still remaining the strongest offensively.

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2015, 01:48:40 AM »
Well I always slotted my IO's starting at level 35.. I rarely looked to slot level and most of my builds were pretty darn good before I reached level 50.

As far as the defense based builds.. I never played SR on a tank.. Played it on a Brute.. never saw any major issues..

I would have to say that ICE as a build for me was easily one of the most survivable tank builds.. Not only softcapped to most things.. but my Ice build also had Perma Hoarfrost (Dull Pain Clone) as well as Hibernate if needed.. So basically you werent going to kill him any time soon..

The hole in your argument for me is that premise is that with IO's and Incarnate abilities Fire approaches the level of other primaries.. however when you IO and Incarnate another primary it can again eclipse Fire as a Primary.. Fire wins on the offensive side.. no doubt.. and to me that was the strength of fire.. it could take down foes faster than other primaries.

ricodah

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 160
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2015, 05:36:36 AM »
The hole in your argument for me is that premise is that with IO's and Incarnate abilities Fire approaches the level of other primaries.. however when you IO and Incarnate another primary it can again eclipse Fire as a Primary.. Fire wins on the offensive side.. no doubt.. and to me that was the strength of fire.. it could take down foes faster than other primaries.

Not really.  I can't think of many incarnate abilities that really improved a tank's overall damage and/or average survivability more than for Fiery Aura. 

Judgement and Lore were equal for everyone. 

Destiny, Barrier/Clarion helped FA more than any other primary, Ageless/Incandescence was pretty equal for everyone though getting Burn a second faster was pretty good. Rebirth was better on Shield Defense/Super Reflexes, probably overkill for Willpower.

Burn/Blazing Aura kept any Hybrid/Interface ability consistently at max stack to youself/max stack to targets around you. 

Alpha, Musculature/Intuition was most beneficial to FA, Nerve/Agility helped out with FA's lower defense. Spiritual got Burn/Healing Flames/Consume up faster but probably equally benefit a couple other primaries like Electric Armor.  Rest of the Alpha's were somewhat of a mix bag with pros/cons to each primary.

Even an average built tank's survivability is good enough for 95% of the game content.  The best defense is a good offense! FA and SD all the way!

Auroxis

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2015, 05:50:01 AM »
Not just Incarnate powers, but IO's as well. Since IO's primarily increase survivability by adding defense, and primaries like Ice, SR and SD quickly lose benefit for slotting defense, the bonuses see better use on resistance-based primaries like FA (and Elec, my personal favorite primary).

Would you rather be at the softcap with 90% S/L resistance and a strong heal every 15 seconds? Or be at the softcap with 50% S/L resistance and Rebirth as your only self heal?

Power Arc X

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 43
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2015, 07:53:54 PM »
The tank I  played  the  most  had to be my Ice/Fire tank. It was just fun to jump into the middle  of  a mob screaming " Who wants a popcicle ?"  and just hit them with fire sword  circle, combustion  and fire breath.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 09:28:05 PM by Power Arc X »

RGladden

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2015, 12:13:01 AM »
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically.....but actually there was good synergy between the two.  Ice's controls set up mobs perfectly for fire melee's attacks.

Canine

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 79
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2015, 12:12:46 PM »
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically.....but actually there was good synergy between the two.  Ice's controls set up mobs perfectly for fire melee's attacks.

This is CoH we're talking about...  *ANYTHING* could make thematic sense with a decent bio.

An experimental thermal camo suit, absorbing ambient thermal energy which is stored in buffers for later release malfunctions, test subject sealed within as suit AI goes awry...

Thermovoric species absorbs ambient heat, can release as a self defence mechanism...

Nanomachines son...

MAGIC!

And bear in mind, that's all 10 seconds worth of 'thought' got me.

Besides, I always thought Fire/Ice was the more common pairing for the Ice Patch/Burn combo...  Saw a good few of those over the years.  Herd & Burn was hideously effective in I3.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 07:50:16 PM by Canine »

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2015, 01:28:01 AM »
This is CoH we're talking about...  *ANYTHING* could make thematic sense with a decent bio.

An experimental thermal camo suit, absorbing ambient thermal energy which is stored in buffers for later release malfunctions, test subject sealed within as suit AI goes awry...

Thermovoric species ebsorbs ambient heat, can release as a self defence mechanism...

Nanomachines son...

MAGIC!

And bear in mind, that's all 10 seconds worth of 'thought' got me.

Besides, I always thought Fire/Ice was the more common paring for the Ice patch/Burn combo...  Saw a good few of those over the years.  Herd & Burn was hideously effective in I3.

What makes perfect good sense to one..make absolutely no sense to others.. the beauty of CoH.. play whatever you want however you want to..

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2015, 01:29:43 AM »
Not really.  I can't think of many incarnate abilities that really improved a tank's overall damage and/or average survivability more than for Fiery Aura. 

Judgement and Lore were equal for everyone. 

Destiny, Barrier/Clarion helped FA more than any other primary, Ageless/Incandescence was pretty equal for everyone though getting Burn a second faster was pretty good. Rebirth was better on Shield Defense/Super Reflexes, probably overkill for Willpower.

Burn/Blazing Aura kept any Hybrid/Interface ability consistently at max stack to youself/max stack to targets around you. 

Alpha, Musculature/Intuition was most beneficial to FA, Nerve/Agility helped out with FA's lower defense. Spiritual got Burn/Healing Flames/Consume up faster but probably equally benefit a couple other primaries like Electric Armor.  Rest of the Alpha's were somewhat of a mix bag with pros/cons to each primary.

Even an average built tank's survivability is good enough for 95% of the game content.  The best defense is a good offense! FA and SD all the way!

 I concur that incarnate abilities probably help Fire Armor more than any other tank set... that is in part because it needed so much help to begin with.

ryuplaneswalker

  • New Efforts # 17,000!
  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 190
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2015, 04:01:00 AM »
Quote
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically

I had an Ice Armor/Stone Melee tank who was made of chocolate and got his powers from eating Irradiated Rocky Road Ice Cream...everything can be justified if you think hard enough.

chuckv3

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2015, 04:36:32 PM »
Before ED, Invulnerability/SS, then I switched to non-tanks for a while. About the last six months of the game I decided to try the other end of the spectrum and got a Fire/Fire tank up to 50. I think that actually might have been my last level 50 character before the shutdown.

Paragon Avenger

  • Circles and Triangles
  • Elite Boss
  • *
  • Posts: 6,246
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2015, 04:13:49 AM »
I heard that you could robot a fire/fire tank, before ED.

ukaserex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2015, 02:20:51 PM »
I started playing CoH in issue 3. I knew nothing, had no real life friends in game - didn't even know there were forums for the first year I played. My ineffectual play certainly permeated through to my characters.

Eventually, when I finally learned of the forums, I came across a fire tanker build, designed by Mephe (Mephisto may have been the full name. It's been a very long time. A dozen years or so.)

Mephe broke down each power, why to get it, how to slot it. An guide for the ignoramus that was me. Sadly, I'd already had my tank started - Fire/Stone. I didn't enjoy the lower level game. So weak, always needing blues, because before ED, we didn't slot for endurance. 2 accuracies, 4 damages. Or 1 Acc, 3 damage, 2 recharge. There were no IO's then.

But, I digress. The short answer is I loved the fire tanks until they nerfed Burn. I went IOs because they could make my character stronger, more efficient. I had the resources from farming for purples and those Super Packs which gave all sorts of things that made the market pretty easy to play.

As for incarnate slots, usually, I went for whichever one gave the endurance boost. As for Judgment, I went for the one that brought all the electricity out of the sky just for the effects. Pretty awesome.

I used to think I was a min/maxer - and I tried to be, but I just wasn't that good at the math, and it was a lot of work to do that. I would invariably come across some great builds on the forums, load them into Mids' and then tweak them to my style of play.

The poll - showing Will Power as #1? I don't think that's a fair representation. The folks that stopped playing when ED came out, and also when ..I can't remember! The other game Cryptic came out with after Paragon Studios got CoH from them. The other comic MMO - a lot of those guys played the invuln/SS tank build. I mean A LOT of them. Everyone had one. I even made an invuln/stone. They all wanted "Superman".
I think if everyone who'd ever played were to participate in that poll, the invuln/SS tank would probably have the lion's share of the votes. Once brutes came out, the farmers stopped playing the fire/fire tank. But, there sure were a ton of them, too. Those two and the stone tank were probably the most popular.
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

worldweary

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 217
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2015, 07:17:58 PM »
. Once brutes came out, the farmers stopped playing the fire/fire tank. But, there sure were a ton of them, too. Those two and the stone tank were probably the most popular.

I hear a lot of talk about people making brutes over tanks but in game the only brutes that our team played with died more than the
scrappers we played with.To me it seems brutes were only good if it was a fire brute fighting fire mobs in AE.I would take a tank
any day over a brute but that's just me.

ukaserex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2015, 08:41:10 PM »
I understand your perception. But - try to realize - a "farmer" - will choose a mission where the NPCs deal damage in an area that he has either high resistance or high defense to - or both.

With IOs, most brutes could get close to soft cap defense, but the resists weren't as high as with tanks. So, given team buffs on those missions you're on - yes, a brute will die more than a tank. A tank will have either higher defense, or higher resists, or both, depending on the build. And, of course, higher HP. So, yeah, a brute will go down fighting sooner than a tank.

But, I definitely get your point. It was like that for me until a math enthusiast named @arbegla (That's algebra backwards) shared with me the percentages and all the math goodness that showed why a brute would be better than a tank for farming. (Not for regular mission work, for farming. For regular mission work, pretty much all toons are going to do okay with a decent build and intelligent button mashing. )

 
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2015, 02:56:14 AM »
I hear a lot of talk about people making brutes over tanks but in game the only brutes that our team played with died more than the
scrappers we played with.To me it seems brutes were only good if it was a fire brute fighting fire mobs in AE.I would take a tank
any day over a brute but that's just me.

Well this depends on two very huge variables..

The person playing the Brute in question.
The build (powers, choices, slotting, IO's etc etc) of said Briue..

All things being equal the tank should survive over the Brute because resists, hit points, and defense should be higher than a Brute..

However a well built Brute should be able to take down mobs fast enough with his hp. resists, and defense which are still very very good (better than scrappers if I remember correctly) to survive well..

I can think of my EA/SS brute that could hold his own against almost anything and not come close to dying.