Author Topic: Most Played Tank Builds  (Read 25133 times)

RGladden

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Most Played Tank Builds
« on: June 22, 2015, 03:31:30 AM »
Which secondary/attack set did you use with your favorite build?  Did you stick with DO enhancements or go the IO route?  Which incarnate powers did you favor?  If we get the chance to start over again....which build will you pursue first?


Steelhelm

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2015, 04:26:16 AM »
Electric Armor because nothing feels better than seeing those Malta Sappers cower at your feet. Mwuahaha >:D I combined that with War Mace, because I copied off Thor :P . I went full IO's, which took quite a while to finish, but was worth it. For incarnate powers, I went for the endurance cost reduction for alpha and damage buffs for interface and hybrid. For the destiny slot, I used the Barrier power. If we get to start over, I'd replace War Mace for Super Strength or Electric Melee.

KabaI

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 02:43:17 PM »
You forgot to include my favourite Tanker primary, Shield Defence. Man, I loved the way they implemented that. I probably had at least one of every Shield/*. /Electrical was my main, and I had him pretty soloing just about everything in the game; /Fire was amazing; /Stone was an endurance nightmare, but oh my god the ground shaking; they were all so great.

RGladden

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 02:56:37 PM »
You forgot to include my favourite Tanker primary, Shield Defence. M

Fixed.

Brightfires

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 08:13:16 PM »
I was a total, unapologetic Willpower fan-girl.  8)

(I did have one token Shield guy, though... That was Anu, my big, brown mace-wielding minotaur.)
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Ankhammon

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 12:35:10 AM »
I had a lot fun with my Dark/Ice tanker.


I would have loved to have been able to bring to life my Bio/Ice tanker with sorcery I played on test.
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Solitaire

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 07:16:13 AM »
I had a Willpower/Mace Tank he was tough as old boots without the smell  :D My main was my scrapper but this guy was brought out if team was having a tough time of things. But most cases I had a couple of friends who had tanks one being an Invul/SS the other Stone/SS and these were both pretty near unstoppable, so my tank was usually played when they weren't around.

RGladden

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 12:29:03 PM »
Wow.  Not a single vote for Granite yet.  Is that because of the movement penalty?  That's one reason I never played it.

Ankhammon

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 12:55:41 PM »
Wow.  Not a single vote for Granite yet.  Is that because of the movement penalty?  That's one reason I never played it.

Don't forget  the damage penalty too.
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Solitaire

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 01:24:49 PM »
Wow.  Not a single vote for Granite yet.  Is that because of the movement penalty?  That's one reason I never played it.

Found most Granite Tanks took TP as there travel power due to this movement penalty, TP from mob to mob...

Minotaur

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2015, 02:56:36 PM »
Loved my granites, but most of the later ones were brutes, didn't need to be a tank to be indestructible.

Auroxis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 03:24:38 PM »
Elec Armor is my most played tank and brute. A great mix of offense and defense which really shines with good defense builds (45% s/l or 32.5% m/r/a).

Wyrm

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2015, 11:08:18 PM »
Wow.  Not a single vote for Granite yet.  Is that because of the movement penalty?  That's one reason I never played it.
The set was more than granite, though.  I spent over 2000 hours on my stone/em tanker (who will be stone/fire in a reroll, someday...), and stayed out of granite as much as I could.  Wyrm (nods to icon) was hard enough to kill without the tier 9 armor that hid him from view, after I got done with his build.  I only turned it on for AV/GM fights, or if I managed to over-aggro something fierce.

It's kind of semantic that I'm not clicking due to it being labeled "granite," but it's also not.  It frustrated me to no end, to see players never toggle that thing off - even against Psi-using enemies.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2015, 02:22:09 AM »
 I had no most played Tank build. I played many and played them often. I found that I could make any Tank pretty much hard to kill one way or another..

Tanks I made.. All level 50// Always IO'd out builds.. Incarnate Powers chosen varied usually to shore up a weakness, enhance a strength or ability, or chosen for thematic reasons.

Ice/Stone
Inv/Nrg
Fire/Fire
Shield/SS
Shield/Fire
Shield/Ice
Dark/Stone
WP/SS
Electric/SS

All good in their own way...

Hardest to beat IMO...

WP/SS, Inv/Nrg, Ice/Stone..

You could have fought those tanks forever and gotten nowhere..

In fact the WP/SS had an awesome one on one battle with Marauder..
 

Valtyr

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2015, 04:05:08 AM »
I was a total, unapologetic Willpower fan-girl.  8)

(I did have one token Shield guy, though... That was Anu, my big, brown mace-wielding minotaur.)

When Willpower was released I didn't have eyes for any other defense set. By the end, though, I had started warming up to Super Reflexes.

That said, I loved having a Stone Tanker around. They took a lot of heat off of my dumb scrapper face.

Paragon Avenger

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2015, 04:56:38 AM »
I had an entire supergroup of stone tanks.
I call it something like "The Paragon Stoners, what was I saying."
The theme of the SG was the pun stoners.
I paired every secondary with the primary Stone.
My favorite was Stone/Battle Axe for the battle axe, I chose a shovel.
It was fun.

cohRock

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2015, 08:55:26 AM »
The survey does not include super reflexes, which had become my favorite at the end.  My main was SR/Dark, to add a self-heal to the mix.  Add tough and weave, and your tank was pretty much as unkillable as a stone tank in Granite armor, but without the penalties.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2015, 09:20:02 AM »
Loved my granites, but most of the later ones were brutes, didn't need to be a tank to be indestructible.

It felt like incarnate powers made Granite less important (not useless, just less useful) as melee toons, other sets got more durable. How many granite tanks took a Run speed-improving alpha slot just to boost Swift?
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cohRock

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2015, 09:49:36 AM »
It felt like incarnate powers made Granite less important (not useless, just less useful) as melee toons, other sets got more durable. How many granite tanks took a Run speed-improving alpha slot just to boost Swift?
My stone tanks/brutes did not need to spend their alpha slot on speed.  They went 3x4 on Gift of the Ancients IOs in defense powers.  At 4 GoAs in a power, there is a 7.5% speed boost, for an overall 22.5%.  Of course, my SR tank did the same thing, except 4x4, and he was a speed demon just at the normal walk/run pace.
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Castegyre

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2015, 11:34:51 AM »
I'm really surprised no one has voted Fire yet. I remember so many Fire tanks herding maps back in the day. The game changed a lot over time and different sets seemed to be more or less popular as it did. I'm not much of a melee person myself so my opinion probably shouldn't weigh as heavily, but my favorite was Willpower pretty much from as soon as it came out until the end. If I'm honest, I think it was because Willpower was easier for me to play and not suck at.

RGladden

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2015, 01:45:53 PM »
I'm really surprised no one has voted Fire yet. I remember so many Fire tanks herding maps back in the day. The game changed a lot over time and different sets seemed to be more or less popular as it did. I'm not much of a melee person myself so my opinion probably shouldn't weigh as heavily, but my favorite was Willpower pretty much from as soon as it came out until the end. If I'm honest, I think it was because Willpower was easier for me to play and not suck at.

I'm also surprised at the lack of support for fire tanks.  Those that I built I never played much beyond level 20, mainly because they always felt a bit squishy, compared to my other tanks.  I'm really a bit surprised at the lead Willpower is building up over Invulnerability.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2015, 03:21:23 AM »
I am not at all surprised that WP has a lead over Inv.. WP is a very good all around set that requires little to no IO support to be very effective. It Regens health and you when Stamina was made an inherent power it instantly became a favorite of many because with quick recovery end issues disappear..

Fire has always had an issue with survival for two specific reasons. It has no inherent defense in the build and it has lower resists than other sets that arent based around defense. Fire tanks were popular in the early days not because of Fire Armor but because of Burn.. to the point where they were called Burn Tanks by many people. Burn was nerfed into pretty much a shell of itself for a very long time because the fear component made foes run away so they didnt get the full ticks of damage... It was later changed and the fear effect removed so Burn was better and Healing Flames also was aided when its percentage of hit points healed was increased. However even with those changes Fire Tanks were still not and strong as far as resists to other tanks. With IO's and depending on secondary taken however Fire Tanks could be very viable builds..


HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2015, 04:05:02 AM »
For comparison sake here is a comparison of my best tank build for WP and INV both which were very good at the end of the game.. These are considering IO's and Incarnate Powers.

My WP Tank

Defense (numbers are rounded)

S/L/E/N softcapped

F/C 38%
PSI 33%

Resist

S/L 70%
F/C/E/N/T 12%
PSI 49%

Here was the kicker with this particular WP build

With ONE foe in range his Regen is 1079%. Which means he regens 126HP per second. If he has what I call the standard sized mob which is usually about 8 he regens @ 1206% which is 141 HP per Second..

Factor in that he has ZERO end issues.. He can run double stacked Rage and easily survive the crash to defense and the drain on endurance as he has END to burn.. In fact he runs Focused Accuracy all the time.. with Stamina and Quick Recovery, Numina Regen Recovery. Miracle Recovery and Three Performance Shifter Procs he never runs out of end..

Using FootStomp he can keep foes bouncing up and down.

Basically he is extremely hard to kill without a serious debuff to his regen.

HOWEVER the INV tank is also difficult to kill for different reasons..

Defense

S/L/E/N Softcapped
F/C 43% (almost softcapped)
PSI 24% ( through IO's)

Resists

S/L 88%
F/C/E/N/T 27%
PSI- 17% (through IO's)

Regen 296%-3807 HP per Second...

Looks much weaker.. However the INV tanks has an ace in the hole.. Perma Dull Pain.. Which allows him to add 60% more HP and Heal 80% of his hit points every 100 Seconds.. Even if you manage to take him down to 25% of his total hit points he can heal it right back if needed..  This allows him to do things he shouldnt.. like tank Mother Mayhem who is mostly Psi damage without dying..

There are many different ways to build a tank that can survive..

my Dark/Stone uses a combination of defense, To Hit Debuffs and double stacking of Oppressive Gloom and Fault to perma stun bosses... and the best regen tool in the game in Dark Regeneration..

The Ice/Stone has great defenses, Perma Hoarfrost (dull pain clone) and Hibernate if need be.. Pretty much he wont die unless I do something stupid..

The Fire/Fire tank survives by having Healing Flames on a very very low recharge and the ability to burn through mobs faster than they can take him down..

Shields just make everything miss.. /SS uses Rage and Shield Charge to mow down mobs.. /Fire tears through them with Fire Damage.. /Ice just laughs as he shield charges in and then drops an ice patch

Elec/SS has very high resists although very little defense but drains mobs end and has Perma Energize. He can easily cycle in Power Surge and Energize without the crash killing him..

I made my wife a Stone Tank that was pretty good..

I never made a SR tank.. but I have a SR Brute.. If I were going to make an SR Tank I probably would have chosen SR and Titan Weapons..

I never developed a favorite tank because I found that you could make any tank survive..




Canine

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2015, 10:01:22 PM »
You forgot to list Stone Armour...

My Stone/Fire scranker was my most played tanker.

And I separate Stone from Granite because some of us used the *rest* of the set after we got to 32...

And frankly, I *liked* running all the toggles.  With Teleport, a simple keybind and a fair amount of practice, I had no mobility issues.  Running at soft cap to S/L/E/NE/Psi with good F/C/Toxic resist, +regen, effective end drain immunity, full suite mez protection (inclusing confuse which wasn't that common among armour sets) meant that I was functionally immune to most things, and I avoided the extra movement, recharge  and damage penalty from Granite, which was nice :)

Cost me a fortune to IO out that toon, but since I *had* several fortunes, that was a non-issue.

Hells Wing

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2015, 11:49:48 PM »
I played and totally enjoyed my Inv/SS tank. She kicked so much ass and was so fun to play as. Not to mention that satisfying sound when I did a uppercut on a enemy and sent them ragdolling up and down to the floor or stomping the ground to create a shockwave/

FourSpeed

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2015, 10:57:11 PM »
I am not at all surprised that WP has a lead over Inv.. WP is a very good all around set that requires little to no IO support to be very effective. It Regens health and you when Stamina was made an inherent power it instantly became a favorite of many because with quick recovery end issues disappear..

Fire has always had an issue with survival for two specific reasons. It has no inherent defense in the build and it has lower resists than other sets that arent based around defense. Fire tanks were popular in the early days not because of Fire Armor but because of Burn.. to the point where they were called Burn Tanks by many people. Burn was nerfed into pretty much a shell of itself for a very long time because the fear component made foes run away so they didnt get the full ticks of damage... It was later changed and the fear effect removed so Burn was better and Healing Flames also was aided when its percentage of hit points healed was increased. However even with those changes Fire Tanks were still not and strong as far as resists to other tanks. With IO's and depending on secondary taken however Fire Tanks could be very viable builds..
The "trick" to solving those problems was  Fire / Ice.  Ice Slick would knock them down (and if you put the proc in it, or stacked casting it, you could even knock Bosses down), mitigating both the fear issue with Burn and also reducing the number of times you'd get hit. IIRC, it also came with a hold or two that was also helped mitigate the burn fear and incoming damage.

The synergy of that set was fabulous, and a friend of mine made a pair of them to play together.  In the early days (~I3?)they were incredible, before the Burn nerf -- after which they dropped to just very, very good.  ;D  IOs / sets got them back up to "incredible" once again.

With the changes just prior to game closure we were planning to respec them into "awesome" Incarates, but alas we didn't get the chance.   :'(

Still, those two characters were two of the ones we enjoyed most, and sometimes, we *still* reminisce about them. 

We didn't make WP or Inv tanks -- opting instead to make Brutes with those sets -- one of those was my RWZ Pylon soloist.


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Ultraamann

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2015, 03:55:41 PM »
Inv/SS- Classic combo.  By far and away my favorite.  Probably more time spent on this toon than all my others combined.  IO'd to the hilt, but left the Incarnate stuff alone.  I never cared for that as an endgame.  You're not a real tank anymore, you're something... else. 

Loved being pretty much utterly invulnerable to almost all physical damage, with that Psi hole that you'd fill in as best as possible.  I enjoyed defining my characters as much by their weaknesses as their strengths, and the Psi issue gave it a very real, very comic-book feel.

Laughing off most attacks, drawing as many baddies to you as possible to amp up Invincibility, keeping your eyes peeled for the Psi attacks and the dreaded end drainers, the -def and -res attacks, it was purely second nature.  Scanning the crowd, identifying the actual threats, dropping the KO Blow on them while Foot Stomping the fodder, taunting all the while... man, I miss playing. 

Supermax

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2015, 04:31:06 AM »
I tried a few tank builds, but nothing could match my Fire/SS, who eventually became my main toon. I spent basically all my influence on him, so he was built well, but could have been even more powerful with an unlimited budget. I realized that I couldn't "tank" as well as some other tanks, but I could tank 99.9% of the game's content, and that was good enough for me. I'd routinely stand next to Stone tanks, taking no more damage than them, while doing like 5 times more damage. The layered power of high resistance, high defense through IO's (1 small luck away from cap), and arguably the best self heal in the game....it made him basically a tankmage.

If the game ever came back though, I think I would reroll the same build as a brute.

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2015, 02:02:55 AM »
Considering my Main was Katana/Dark Armor I think I have to vote for DA.

in the incarnate days he could run OG, CoF and the damage aura all at once and not break a sweat, come I-24 I would have been Melee defense capped without using Divine Avalanche as well as Capped to S/L/E/P/N resistances.

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2015, 02:55:59 AM »
Inv/SS- Classic combo.  By far and away my favorite.  Probably more time spent on this toon than all my others combined.  IO'd to the hilt, but left the Incarnate stuff alone.  I never cared for that as an endgame.  You're not a real tank anymore, you're something... else. 


 Played lots of incarnate stuff. Never made me feel like I wasnt a real tank. The Alpha slot in particular was a benefit to most of my tanks and helped them do their job better.

 

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2015, 02:57:11 AM »
The "trick" to solving those problems was  Fire / Ice.  Ice Slick would knock them down (and if you put the proc in it, or stacked casting it, you could even knock Bosses down), mitigating both the fear issue with Burn and also reducing the number of times you'd get hit. IIRC, it also came with a hold or two that was also helped mitigate the burn fear and incoming damage.

The synergy of that set was fabulous, and a friend of mine made a pair of them to play together.  In the early days (~I3?)they were incredible, before the Burn nerf -- after which they dropped to just very, very good.  ;D  IOs / sets got them back up to "incredible" once again.

With the changes just prior to game closure we were planning to respec them into "awesome" Incarates, but alas we didn't get the chance.   :'(

Still, those two characters were two of the ones we enjoyed most, and sometimes, we *still* reminisce about them. 

We didn't make WP or Inv tanks -- opting instead to make Brutes with those sets -- one of those was my RWZ Pylon soloist.


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One of my buddies played a Fire/Ice tank. I would never play that combo as it didnt make
" sense " to me.. the fire powers would melt the ice patch in my mind.. But agreed it was a boon to that tank..

Auroxis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2015, 08:48:31 AM »
I think Fiery Aura had more potential on Tankers than people gave it. In particular I feel its potential was partially wasted with those kinetic combat/eradication s/l/e/n defense builds which kept you really vulnerable to Psi and didn't help your recharge and accuracy much.

I think Fire/Martial Arts had good combo potential due to the +10% M/R/A defense buff. Together with Cardiac, Barrier and some expensive IO's you could have a build that's at at the softcap for M/R/A and at the resist hardcap for S/L, while maintaining good recharge+accuracy.

DBadger

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2015, 09:00:03 AM »
While I loved Willpower I mainly played that on scrappers. My main brute was Fire Armour/Electric Melee and my main tank was fire/superstrength, both were called Emberwilde as they were on different servers.

I leveled my fire armour tank when they were probably at their weakest (before the buffs to burn/healing flames etc) but as I was constantly teamed with a kinetic def and a couple of scrappers we absolutely wrecked everything. I even managed to tank and (mostly) survive pretty much every AV.

My brute was my no1 Mission Architect PLer/Recipe token grinder

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2015, 10:16:04 AM »
All heads must bow and tongues confess that Ss/ Regen Brute was king of damage and survivability.  My too was B.Roid or black steroid looked like Galactic ran on freedom pvp server. Was the number 1 build of all melee fighters on that server.   Before that I rolled with Granite tanks until I met Ghost Widow.

Vee

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2015, 10:33:47 AM »
Considering my Main was Katana/Dark Armor I think I have to vote for DA.

All heads must bow and tongues confess that Ss/ Regen Brute was king of damage and survivability.

So your favorite kind of tank is...non?

Aggelakis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2015, 03:28:14 PM »
You don't have to be a Tanker (archetype) to tank (activity). My bubble defender tanked well enough in a pinch.
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HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2015, 02:24:41 AM »
You don't have to be a Tanker (archetype) to tank (activity). My bubble defender tanked well enough in a pinch.

 Tanking to me isnt about running in and surviving the alpha.. I have blasters that can do that.. Tanking to me is also about controlling the battlefield... mob placement.. holding their attention.. keeping the AV focused on me.. pulling the aggro off that squishy.. etc etc.. thats tanking..

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2015, 03:09:32 AM »
All heads must bow and tongues confess that Ss/ Regen Brute was king of damage and survivability.

Really??? My EA/SS Brute would argue that point profusely...

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2015, 03:14:31 AM »
I think Fiery Aura had more potential on Tankers than people gave it. In particular I feel its potential was partially wasted with those kinetic combat/eradication s/l/e/n defense builds which kept you really vulnerable to Psi and didn't help your recharge and accuracy much.

I think Fire/Martial Arts had good combo potential due to the +10% M/R/A defense buff. Together with Cardiac, Barrier and some expensive IO's you could have a build that's at at the softcap for M/R/A and at the resist hardcap for S/L, while maintaining good recharge+accuracy.

And thats the problem with Fire.. you have to so all that stuff just to get a good build out of it when you do that with any other tank build much easier.. I mean look at your comment..

With BARRIER ??

Come on seriously.. Barrier ?? 

Fire can be a good build.. I played Fire pretty much from day one.. enjoyed it.. I would probably never roll another fire tank again in all honesty.. I can easily make any other tank far more survivable with less effort. and I LOVE my fire tank...

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2015, 03:51:52 AM »
So your favorite kind of tank is...non?

I kept aggro! I had to to keep that Fury bar full.

Auroxis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2015, 06:57:54 AM »
And thats the problem with Fire.. you have to so all that stuff just to get a good build out of it when you do that with any other tank build much easier.. I mean look at your comment..

With BARRIER ??

Come on seriously.. Barrier ?? 


Building around a Destiny power was legit strategy. A character should be judged by the sum of its parts, since synergy with destiny powers varied. If Barrier takes your FA tanker with Cardiac from 84% S/L resistance and 40% M/R/A defense to 90% S/L resistance and 45% M/R/A defense then that's a benefit you can't just brush aside as "pfft, incarnate powers don't count".

HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2015, 01:43:54 AM »
Building around a Destiny power was legit strategy. A character should be judged by the sum of its parts, since synergy with destiny powers varied. If Barrier takes your FA tanker with Cardiac from 84% S/L resistance and 40% M/R/A defense to 90% S/L resistance and 45% M/R/A defense then that's a benefit you can't just brush aside as "pfft, incarnate powers don't count".

Barrier caps everything by itself.. it doesnt need anything to help it.. and since you cannot use it for until level 50 at least.. for me its not a planned strategy...


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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2015, 05:13:58 AM »
During half of Barrier's duration it gives 5% resistance and 5% defense, it only gives a huge boost at the start. And the level 50 requirement is shared by most IO builds as well, are you gonna disregard those too?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 05:20:04 AM by Auroxis »

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 02:03:16 AM »
During half of Barrier's duration it gives 5% resistance and 5% defense, it only gives a huge boost at the start. And the level 50 requirement is shared by most IO builds as well, are you gonna disregard those too?

 Well I guess your talking about Purple IO's. I rarely if even planned a tank build using Purple IO's. In fact looking at every tank build I have none of them have Purple IO's. Some have Hami-O's but they can be used @ level 47.

 I took Barrier on quite a few characters. As well as other incarnate powers. But I didn't plan my build around them especially for defense or resistance..

 And in the case of Fire Armor it was still one of the weaker Primary Sets for tanks.. I had fun with mine.. but the Devs purposefully made it weak because Fire had more offensive capability.. Could you tank with it.. sure.. would other sets outshine it.. if built well.. usually..

Auroxis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 06:49:12 AM »
Level 47 is not that different from level 50. Lots of people had non-purple level 50 set IO's in their build like mako's bite, luck of the gambler, thunderstrike, etc. Yes you could go with lower levels on those, but you had to settle for lesser enhancement bonuses and a higher price tag as a trade-off.

And with slot allocation all builds were technically not complete until level 50.

Fire Armor is definitely the squishiest primary before IO's and incarnate buffs, but once you add them up I'd say it reaches the point of equaling or surpassing defense-based primaries like SR, Ice and SD in tanking, while still remaining the strongest offensively.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2015, 01:48:40 AM »
Well I always slotted my IO's starting at level 35.. I rarely looked to slot level and most of my builds were pretty darn good before I reached level 50.

As far as the defense based builds.. I never played SR on a tank.. Played it on a Brute.. never saw any major issues..

I would have to say that ICE as a build for me was easily one of the most survivable tank builds.. Not only softcapped to most things.. but my Ice build also had Perma Hoarfrost (Dull Pain Clone) as well as Hibernate if needed.. So basically you werent going to kill him any time soon..

The hole in your argument for me is that premise is that with IO's and Incarnate abilities Fire approaches the level of other primaries.. however when you IO and Incarnate another primary it can again eclipse Fire as a Primary.. Fire wins on the offensive side.. no doubt.. and to me that was the strength of fire.. it could take down foes faster than other primaries.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2015, 05:36:36 AM »
The hole in your argument for me is that premise is that with IO's and Incarnate abilities Fire approaches the level of other primaries.. however when you IO and Incarnate another primary it can again eclipse Fire as a Primary.. Fire wins on the offensive side.. no doubt.. and to me that was the strength of fire.. it could take down foes faster than other primaries.

Not really.  I can't think of many incarnate abilities that really improved a tank's overall damage and/or average survivability more than for Fiery Aura. 

Judgement and Lore were equal for everyone. 

Destiny, Barrier/Clarion helped FA more than any other primary, Ageless/Incandescence was pretty equal for everyone though getting Burn a second faster was pretty good. Rebirth was better on Shield Defense/Super Reflexes, probably overkill for Willpower.

Burn/Blazing Aura kept any Hybrid/Interface ability consistently at max stack to youself/max stack to targets around you. 

Alpha, Musculature/Intuition was most beneficial to FA, Nerve/Agility helped out with FA's lower defense. Spiritual got Burn/Healing Flames/Consume up faster but probably equally benefit a couple other primaries like Electric Armor.  Rest of the Alpha's were somewhat of a mix bag with pros/cons to each primary.

Even an average built tank's survivability is good enough for 95% of the game content.  The best defense is a good offense! FA and SD all the way!

Auroxis

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2015, 05:50:01 AM »
Not just Incarnate powers, but IO's as well. Since IO's primarily increase survivability by adding defense, and primaries like Ice, SR and SD quickly lose benefit for slotting defense, the bonuses see better use on resistance-based primaries like FA (and Elec, my personal favorite primary).

Would you rather be at the softcap with 90% S/L resistance and a strong heal every 15 seconds? Or be at the softcap with 50% S/L resistance and Rebirth as your only self heal?

Power Arc X

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2015, 07:53:54 PM »
The tank I  played  the  most  had to be my Ice/Fire tank. It was just fun to jump into the middle  of  a mob screaming " Who wants a popcicle ?"  and just hit them with fire sword  circle, combustion  and fire breath.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 09:28:05 PM by Power Arc X »

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2015, 12:13:01 AM »
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically.....but actually there was good synergy between the two.  Ice's controls set up mobs perfectly for fire melee's attacks.

Canine

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2015, 12:12:46 PM »
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically.....but actually there was good synergy between the two.  Ice's controls set up mobs perfectly for fire melee's attacks.

This is CoH we're talking about...  *ANYTHING* could make thematic sense with a decent bio.

An experimental thermal camo suit, absorbing ambient thermal energy which is stored in buffers for later release malfunctions, test subject sealed within as suit AI goes awry...

Thermovoric species absorbs ambient heat, can release as a self defence mechanism...

Nanomachines son...

MAGIC!

And bear in mind, that's all 10 seconds worth of 'thought' got me.

Besides, I always thought Fire/Ice was the more common pairing for the Ice Patch/Burn combo...  Saw a good few of those over the years.  Herd & Burn was hideously effective in I3.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 07:50:16 PM by Canine »

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2015, 01:28:01 AM »
This is CoH we're talking about...  *ANYTHING* could make thematic sense with a decent bio.

An experimental thermal camo suit, absorbing ambient thermal energy which is stored in buffers for later release malfunctions, test subject sealed within as suit AI goes awry...

Thermovoric species ebsorbs ambient heat, can release as a self defence mechanism...

Nanomachines son...

MAGIC!

And bear in mind, that's all 10 seconds worth of 'thought' got me.

Besides, I always thought Fire/Ice was the more common paring for the Ice patch/Burn combo...  Saw a good few of those over the years.  Herd & Burn was hideously effective in I3.

What makes perfect good sense to one..make absolutely no sense to others.. the beauty of CoH.. play whatever you want however you want to..

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2015, 01:29:43 AM »
Not really.  I can't think of many incarnate abilities that really improved a tank's overall damage and/or average survivability more than for Fiery Aura. 

Judgement and Lore were equal for everyone. 

Destiny, Barrier/Clarion helped FA more than any other primary, Ageless/Incandescence was pretty equal for everyone though getting Burn a second faster was pretty good. Rebirth was better on Shield Defense/Super Reflexes, probably overkill for Willpower.

Burn/Blazing Aura kept any Hybrid/Interface ability consistently at max stack to youself/max stack to targets around you. 

Alpha, Musculature/Intuition was most beneficial to FA, Nerve/Agility helped out with FA's lower defense. Spiritual got Burn/Healing Flames/Consume up faster but probably equally benefit a couple other primaries like Electric Armor.  Rest of the Alpha's were somewhat of a mix bag with pros/cons to each primary.

Even an average built tank's survivability is good enough for 95% of the game content.  The best defense is a good offense! FA and SD all the way!

 I concur that incarnate abilities probably help Fire Armor more than any other tank set... that is in part because it needed so much help to begin with.

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2015, 04:01:00 AM »
Quote
Ice/fire might not seem to make any sense thematically

I had an Ice Armor/Stone Melee tank who was made of chocolate and got his powers from eating Irradiated Rocky Road Ice Cream...everything can be justified if you think hard enough.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2015, 04:36:32 PM »
Before ED, Invulnerability/SS, then I switched to non-tanks for a while. About the last six months of the game I decided to try the other end of the spectrum and got a Fire/Fire tank up to 50. I think that actually might have been my last level 50 character before the shutdown.

Paragon Avenger

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2015, 04:13:49 AM »
I heard that you could robot a fire/fire tank, before ED.

ukaserex

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2015, 02:20:51 PM »
I started playing CoH in issue 3. I knew nothing, had no real life friends in game - didn't even know there were forums for the first year I played. My ineffectual play certainly permeated through to my characters.

Eventually, when I finally learned of the forums, I came across a fire tanker build, designed by Mephe (Mephisto may have been the full name. It's been a very long time. A dozen years or so.)

Mephe broke down each power, why to get it, how to slot it. An guide for the ignoramus that was me. Sadly, I'd already had my tank started - Fire/Stone. I didn't enjoy the lower level game. So weak, always needing blues, because before ED, we didn't slot for endurance. 2 accuracies, 4 damages. Or 1 Acc, 3 damage, 2 recharge. There were no IO's then.

But, I digress. The short answer is I loved the fire tanks until they nerfed Burn. I went IOs because they could make my character stronger, more efficient. I had the resources from farming for purples and those Super Packs which gave all sorts of things that made the market pretty easy to play.

As for incarnate slots, usually, I went for whichever one gave the endurance boost. As for Judgment, I went for the one that brought all the electricity out of the sky just for the effects. Pretty awesome.

I used to think I was a min/maxer - and I tried to be, but I just wasn't that good at the math, and it was a lot of work to do that. I would invariably come across some great builds on the forums, load them into Mids' and then tweak them to my style of play.

The poll - showing Will Power as #1? I don't think that's a fair representation. The folks that stopped playing when ED came out, and also when ..I can't remember! The other game Cryptic came out with after Paragon Studios got CoH from them. The other comic MMO - a lot of those guys played the invuln/SS tank build. I mean A LOT of them. Everyone had one. I even made an invuln/stone. They all wanted "Superman".
I think if everyone who'd ever played were to participate in that poll, the invuln/SS tank would probably have the lion's share of the votes. Once brutes came out, the farmers stopped playing the fire/fire tank. But, there sure were a ton of them, too. Those two and the stone tank were probably the most popular.
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worldweary

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2015, 07:17:58 PM »
. Once brutes came out, the farmers stopped playing the fire/fire tank. But, there sure were a ton of them, too. Those two and the stone tank were probably the most popular.

I hear a lot of talk about people making brutes over tanks but in game the only brutes that our team played with died more than the
scrappers we played with.To me it seems brutes were only good if it was a fire brute fighting fire mobs in AE.I would take a tank
any day over a brute but that's just me.

ukaserex

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2015, 08:41:10 PM »
I understand your perception. But - try to realize - a "farmer" - will choose a mission where the NPCs deal damage in an area that he has either high resistance or high defense to - or both.

With IOs, most brutes could get close to soft cap defense, but the resists weren't as high as with tanks. So, given team buffs on those missions you're on - yes, a brute will die more than a tank. A tank will have either higher defense, or higher resists, or both, depending on the build. And, of course, higher HP. So, yeah, a brute will go down fighting sooner than a tank.

But, I definitely get your point. It was like that for me until a math enthusiast named @arbegla (That's algebra backwards) shared with me the percentages and all the math goodness that showed why a brute would be better than a tank for farming. (Not for regular mission work, for farming. For regular mission work, pretty much all toons are going to do okay with a decent build and intelligent button mashing. )

 
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HEATSTROKE

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2015, 02:56:14 AM »
I hear a lot of talk about people making brutes over tanks but in game the only brutes that our team played with died more than the
scrappers we played with.To me it seems brutes were only good if it was a fire brute fighting fire mobs in AE.I would take a tank
any day over a brute but that's just me.

Well this depends on two very huge variables..

The person playing the Brute in question.
The build (powers, choices, slotting, IO's etc etc) of said Briue..

All things being equal the tank should survive over the Brute because resists, hit points, and defense should be higher than a Brute..

However a well built Brute should be able to take down mobs fast enough with his hp. resists, and defense which are still very very good (better than scrappers if I remember correctly) to survive well..

I can think of my EA/SS brute that could hold his own against almost anything and not come close to dying.

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2015, 09:17:55 AM »
All things being equal the tank should survive over the Brute because resists, hit points, and defense should be higher than a Brute..

However a well built Brute should be able to take down mobs fast enough with his hp. resists, and defense which are still very very good (better than scrappers if I remember correctly) to survive well..

As pure anecdata, I always found my Brutes to feel significantly squishier than my Tanks.  And by the time my fury ramped up from 'cold' to operating levels, I was usually in trouble to a greater or lesser extent.  This is likely because of the lower base defensive values on Brutes, and also possibly because of my inherent personal preference for blueside over redside.  What can I say, I started playing City of *Heroes*  in Issue 3.  There were a lot of ingrained expectations and assumptions by the time CoV rolled out.

I *did* enjoy my War Mace/Willpower brute, especially since by pure coincidence I was levelling him when War Mace/Crowd Control was a little, umm, broken... in terms of Area of effect and target cap (I think... It's all a little vague at this point).  Plus, Willpower being so resilient in a 'set and forget' way helped.

ukaserex

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2015, 03:54:01 PM »
Curses! Now I really want to load up Herostats and compare my fire/fire brute with my fire/fire tank just to reassure myself of what I already believe to be true!

Maybe a little Thunderstruck will ease the pain..
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ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Most Played Tank Builds
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2015, 04:59:27 AM »
Curses! Now I really want to load up Herostats and compare my fire/fire brute with my fire/fire tank just to reassure myself of what I already believe to be true!

Maybe a little Thunderstruck will ease the pain..

If I recall correctly

Tanks had the highest HP, had higher modifiers on the armor powers, and the highest caps

Brutes had second highest HP, had scrapper modifiers on the powers, but had Scrapper modifiers on the defensive powers, but the same caps as tanks.

Scrappers had the lowest HP of the three, had the same modifier on the armor powers..BUT had lower caps than tanks/brutes.

and generally in a well built team, you would hit the cap on either Resistance or defenses*, so the fact that tanks had higher modifiers did not matter.

and that was before Incarnate, IOs ect.


*Unless you had support that gave you the opposite of what your armor set gave you, of course..if that is the case then tank/brute is generally irrelevant..because you are going to be very survivable against most anything that will show up