And the mask comes off.

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

Actually, Nate Downes said there was a price that was doable. Of course, don't let that ruin your crusade.

If there was, that was never reported to me. How long ago was that, I wonder? Because back during the shutdown, I had a little birdy telling me some prices that were quite unbelievable. But go ahead, get insulting if you want.

[Arcana]

Really, so you don't remember the pleading to make the emails and letters stop because it was making "work difficult?" Because I do. If they ignored us completely as you claim, they wouldn't have even said that. It would have just been flat, outright silence.

"Please stop sending crap to us" is not the same thing as engaging with us.  Its the exact opposite.  And even the word "plead" has connotations that aren't true.

What else do you call that stock plummet after their announcement?

A coincidence.  Its more likely the stock dropped after NCSoft reported significant losses in the previous period.  For that matter, the stock rose significantly for about a year after the game actually shutdown.  Also a coincidence, and probably due to the fact that NCSoft's financial strengthened after the third quarter.

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

"Please stop sending crap to us" is not the same thing as engaging with us.  Its the exact opposite.  And even the word "plead" has connotations that aren't true.

A whine is a whine is a whine. I think that was the point we should have simply ramped up the pressure with the letters and capes and not passively acquiesce to their demand. It gave hint that it was having an effect.

A coincidence.  Its more likely the stock dropped after NCSoft reported significant losses in the previous period.  For that matter, the stock rose significantly for about a year after the game actually shutdown.  Also a coincidence, and probably due to the fact that NCSoft's financial strengthened after the third quarter.

Interestingly placed coincidence, right after the noise of the saber rattling was hitting the gaming news sites no less.

[Arcana]

If there was, that was never reported to me. How long ago was that, I wonder? Because back during the shutdown, I had a little birdy telling me some prices that were quite unbelievable. But go ahead, get insulting if you want.

At the time of the shutdown, I had multiple direct statements that said price itself was not the problem.  It was high, but doable, particularly given the revenue numbers I was given at the same time.

And none of that was "damage control" because those particular discussions happened before the shutdown announcement.

[Arcana]

Interestingly placed coincidence, right after the noise of the saber rattling was hitting the gaming news sites no less.

Your opinion of the CoH community's actual influence is laudable but inexplicable.

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

At the time of the shutdown, I had multiple direct statements that said price itself was not the problem.  It was high, but doable, particularly given the revenue numbers I was given at the same time.

And none of that was "damage control" because those particular discussions happened before the shutdown announcement.

I'm not talking about the period where Paragon Studios was attempting to become independent. I was talking about the purchase offers by other companies/individuals after the shutdown announcement. I had an informant, quite respectable in this community too, who'd been passing me a few tidbits about those efforts.

[Aggelakis]

If there was, that was never reported to me. How long ago was that, I wonder? Because back during the shutdown, I had a little birdy telling me some prices that were quite unbelievable. But go ahead, get insulting if you want.

I don't know, maybe in the first post in the new efforts thread???

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

I don't know, maybe in the first post in the new efforts thread???

*Shrug.* I don't really see that anywhere in that post. I see that midway last year (which is significantly after my informant had given me details) they finally got a workable, potential proposal and negotiation going. But I don't see anything about the original prices NCsoft was asking for with this venture? Maybe I'm missing it? Could you point out the sentence in his post I might be overlooking?

[drmanbot]

While I appreciate the lingering animosity toward NCSoft for  closing the game, it really can't be said enough:

1) This was a business decision , not some vindicitve act to ruin a beloved past time.

2) There is a HUGE cultural divide between US and Korean business practices; efforts such as emailing campaigns and other forms of protest that would influence a business here, really have little or no impact there. By way of example, look at how they terminated the Paragon Staff. On a Frdiay, no warning, and that was that. Its just not done that way here. So not only do Nate and the crew have to deal with contractual negotiations, they also have to navigate issues that would not normally be a factor in a domestic negotiation.

I want the game back as much as anyone. What I don't want to see is a potential revivial of a "Boycott this" or " make them uncomfortable  that" because it simply  will not work It will also impede whatever negotiations are out there.

Business moves at the speed of business. Please Keep Calm, and for now, Icon On.

[Codewalker]

But I don't see anything about the original prices NCsoft was asking for with this venture?

Those numbers were never released. The only people in a position to know that were the people in the room, and none of them have talked. Believe me, I tried, and while I was able to get some interesting bits of info from people outside the room, they didn't know those kinds of details.

Unless you're talking about that stupid $80 million rumor that seems to have started as a forumgoer's estimate of something and somehow mutated into "NCSoft's insane asking price". That's an irritatingly persistent one, right up to the point as of being presented to people at Valve, et al. by their underlings as the price point -- at least until they did the research and realized it was bogus. That one really just needs to die already. It's laughably far off, as the few buyout attempts to actually get past the ncsoft desk clerks found out. It didn't help that a few prominent people in the community who should really know better repeated it without verifying what it was or where it came from.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Yeah, $80 Million is...far off.

The numbers are exactly the kind of thing that are unlikely to be released, or very openly discussed. Especially during negotiations. I'm certainly not going to do it, and I'm sure most everyone else who does have information on it will defer to Nate's judgement.

[Ironwolf]

The $80 million myth came from a relative of someone who worked at NCSoft in Austin.

They were under the assumption some new tax changes in Texas would cause the buy out price to include other tax liabilities. This believe it or not was the myth that changed everything.

Once I ran this down and it was found to be untrue - the relative was a sister to one of the folks now making the effort to buy the game! They then contacted some of the original TFHM team and was able to get to the person at NCSoft who could actually make the decision to sell the game.

Other groups had tried to get through but did not have the name of the person and so got stopped by the wall of minions who stop progress. It is like the old saying if you have to ask someone for the name or price - they don't want to talk to you.

[Thunder Glove]

Heh.  All this "Sure, it may have been your favorite game of all time, a game by which all other games before and since have come to be judged (and all found wanting), but to NCSoft, it was just a teeny tiny nothing, so you shouldn't be mad about it" is not having the intended effect, I think.

Hey, Chun Li, Bison doesn't even remember murdering your father.  It was just a Tuesday for him.  So lay off all the anger, okay?

(Yeah, yeah, I know that's not a perfect analogy, but that's how I feel.  The fact that what they took away from me - from all of us - was so insignificant to them does not make me feel better at all, it makes me feel worse)



Edited because, even after all this time, I saw a grammatical mistake.

[RGladden]

Hey....NcSoft!  Please....oh, pretty PLEASE....with SUGAR on top!   

[RGladden]

I HATE to beg.  I feel so...so....dirty!

[Twisted Toon]

By way of example, look at how they terminated the Paragon Staff. On a Frdiay, no warning, and that was that. Its just not done that way here.

I guess you can say that half a day before end of shift is "some" warning, but I have been terminated on a Friday, with half a day's notice. It sorta pissed me off. However, I can see a reason for why they did that. Still doesn't make me think it was a really good reason though.

To that the it doesn't happen here is, quite frankly, wrong. It does. Just not that often and usually for certain fields of employment, like Secuirty. Can't have a disgruntled security guard with Top Secret clearance roaming free at the facility after they've been told that they will no longer be employed at the company. Right? I mean, the guy just can't be trusted. 

[Rejolt]

I HATE to beg.  I feel so...so....dirty!

Behind closed doors... There are no rules. Beg away.


Did I really just type that?

Also, sorry for typing that insane price myself. I just found it in the search fu. Good luck to the Legacy crew.

[Arcana]

Those numbers were never released. The only people in a position to know that were the people in the room, and none of them have talked. Believe me, I tried, and while I was able to get some interesting bits of info from people outside the room, they didn't know those kinds of details.

As far as I know, the exact precise details of the NCSoft proposal were never disclosed, but you could confine that number with information people were willing to discuss to a degree, combined with information most people didn't know but some people outside the room did know.  When I say a little birdy told me something, I know those birdies are probably making educated guessed, but one thing I did at the time was ask the birdies to take me through their thought process and that was informative.

The question was not what did NCSoft offer, but what deal was Paragon willing to make, combined with the fact that we know the eventual final offer was *close* to what they were willing and able to do, but with a deal breaker.  That took a lot of circumferential discussion to bracket.  For example, its helpful to know how much money City of Heroes was actually making at the time, because any deal starts and ends there.  And even this one number is contentious.  I believe it was contentious even in the room.

Also, you'd be surprised what people can sometimes leak by accident.

[chuckv3]

By way of example, look at how they terminated the Paragon Staff. On a Frdiay, no warning, and that was that. Its just not done that way here.

Completely wrong, I'm afraid. I work as a computer programmer. I've been laid off twice and fired once, and both times it was "I'm going to have to let you go. Here's a box. Security will escort you to your desk to collect your personal items." If it's done any other way, there's just too much risk that you'll walk out the door with code or data, or cause some damage before walking out.

[Codewalker]

Friday is a popular day for layoffs in the US. It's something they teach you when training for management jobs. Apparently letting people go on Friday is supposed reduce the likelihood of workplace violence (e.g. coming back the next day and shooting the place up). Something to do with having the weekend to think things over and cool off. Decent severage pay helps with that as well. Not that it matters as much if you're shutting down a whole office at once, but it's not an uncommon day to choose.

Very rarely do people get notice in a corporate environment. Only if it's a challenging position that needs some cross-training first. Otherwise they find out that day, and often managers will put in a call to IT asking to lock the account while they're back in HR going over the details. That way people can't send out half-cocked rant emails to a whole division at once before thinking about it (which has happened before, and is why the 'All Employees' distribution list doesn't let just anybody send to it). It's all very impersonal, but it's SOP at numerous medium to large size companies.