Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1749379 times)

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5960 on: August 31, 2015, 03:31:09 PM »
They didn't like it - we didn't know it at the time.
When we got the actual Corporate email accounts of the top 3 in the company - they liked it a whole lot less.

In fact NCSoft explicitly said when the new talks started we don't want to be buried in emails.

NCSoft can do business how they like. I don't like the way they have conducted themselves either but it isn't my choice - it is theirs. They handled this poorly and as in all large companies no one is going to admit that. If they did they could get fired, so they will say everything was wonderful and move on.

Auroxis

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5961 on: August 31, 2015, 03:41:25 PM »
"deluge them with emails and other things"

I don't like how you make that sound like a bad thing.  A good business person would look at it as communication between themselves and their customers and thus a good thing.  A bad business person would think, "how dare this arrive in my ivory tower from the plebs and why don't they just send me money".

That depends on the nature of communication. If they were getting tons of "screw you guys, never playing your games again if you go through with the closure" mails with very few constructive stuff in-between then it's not surprising they wanted less mails.

After all, if you have to sift through a big pile of crap in order to find a few nice gems, you'd probably prefer it to be a smaller pile of crap. Especially if the gems aren't that valuable to begin with.

duane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5962 on: August 31, 2015, 03:58:05 PM »
That depends on the nature of communication. If they were getting tons of "screw you guys, never playing your games again if you go through with the closure" mails with very few constructive stuff in-between then it's not surprising they wanted less mails.

After all, if you have to sift through a big pile of crap in order to find a few nice gems, you'd probably prefer it to be a smaller pile of crap. Especially if the gems aren't that valuable to begin with.


No, my interpretation from reading this thread the last 18 months is this:  ncsoft does not want to hear from the COH community rank and file.  Period. Good, bad or otherwise.  If you want to blather glowingly all over their Facebook page on a current product--great.

 Ncsoft is willing to talk to the present negotiators after going through some kinda process to even get introduced.  The community:  no email, no masks, no hate mail, no nothing related to COH directly to them as it will only be a further complication.

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5963 on: August 31, 2015, 05:29:25 PM »
If you want to carry around the ate for NCSoft that is your affair.

I look at the company and just take note that they are clueless as to what the Western market likes. They finally came to the same conclusion. I was amazed at Wildstar as I thought surely they won't try it again - well they did and it fell flat on it's face.

I just don't believe they understand the market.

duane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5964 on: August 31, 2015, 06:25:08 PM »
Nyah, ncsoft is not going anywhere soon out of North America.  They have a warmed over Blades and Steel franchise to deliver and some sort of foray into mobile gaming with no ETA.

  I don't think I have read about any up and coming mmo projects lately, but they have plenty of legacy product cash coming in for now.

No, no hate for now.  The negotiators just don't need the community to kick into gear again or make big grand gestures again.    The effort will hurt way more than help in any intention.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 09:30:36 PM by duane »

Ironwolf

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5965 on: August 31, 2015, 07:10:45 PM »
You see I think Nexon wants to move into our market and also wants NCSoft to head this way.

I think this is what their big fight is over.

duane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5966 on: August 31, 2015, 07:25:06 PM »
You see I think Nexon wants to move into our market and also wants NCSoft to head this way.

I think this is what their big fight is over.

Well you can build it yourself or you can buy your way in. There is no formula for success either way.  I think nexxon has a better North America and would just get rid of an Asian rival.  Anyways, good day all !

chuckv3

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5967 on: August 31, 2015, 08:47:18 PM »
You see I think Nexon wants to move into our market and also wants NCSoft to head this way.

I think this is what their big fight is over.

Well, then it might make sense for them to revive a game that was popular and profitable in North America but not in Asia, right?

I'm betting a re-opened City of Heroes would bring in more income than Wildstar.

hejtmane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5968 on: August 31, 2015, 09:01:59 PM »
If you want to carry around the ate for NCSoft that is your affair.

I look at the company and just take note that they are clueless as to what the Western market likes. They finally came to the same conclusion. I was amazed at Wildstar as I thought surely they won't try it again - well they did and it fell flat on it's face.

I just don't believe they understand the market.

I am not abandoning my hate for NCSoft any time soon.

In fact I avoid their games; because I do not trust them. I understand if the game financials where in the red I would have moved on gracefully; but that was not the case they where making money. That puts me in the why would you ever play another NcSoft game just because the game is making money does not mean they will keep it up and running.

If any one ask about NcSoft game that is my first question out of my mouth can you trust them (the answer is no).

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5969 on: August 31, 2015, 09:06:16 PM »
That depends on the nature of communication. If they were getting tons of "screw you guys, never playing your games again if you go through with the closure" mails with very few constructive stuff in-between then it's not surprising they wanted less mails.

After all, if you have to sift through a big pile of crap in order to find a few nice gems, you'd probably prefer it to be a smaller pile of crap. Especially if the gems aren't that valuable to begin with.

It doesn't matter what the content of the messages are.  Sending hundreds or thousands of emails to a personal email account has only one function: to be disruptive.  Being surprised that is perceived as anything other than extremely negatively is rather nuts.

Mistress Bloodwrath

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5970 on: August 31, 2015, 09:22:16 PM »
I don't know about anyone else, but I was extremely polite and civil in my letter to NCsoft's CEO.

blacksly

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5971 on: August 31, 2015, 10:14:51 PM »
I don't know about anyone else, but I was extremely polite and civil in my letter to NCsoft's CEO.

Maybe so, but any email that an executive is reading should be relevant to their business, or it's effectively spam. No matter how nice or polite it is.
And a CEO's business is NOT to get opinions or suggestions from fans of a game, much less such a minor one such as CoH. They have lower level managers who are supposed to take care of communication with players, sorting and grouping suggestions and opinions, and delivering single reports out of hundreds or thousands of emails or forum posts.

When a CEO gets an email that, even if they still cared about the game, would be the province of a manager several steps down on the job organization chart, that email is spam to them.

AlphaFerret

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5972 on: August 31, 2015, 10:25:32 PM »
If NCSoft does finally return Coh to us, I will gladly purchase several of their upcoming titles.  I had previously purchase Aion, Lineage 2, and Guild Wars all due to the affiliation with Coh.  Since the closure, I have looked elsewhere.

Just give us our City back already.

Mistress Bloodwrath

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5973 on: September 01, 2015, 08:21:39 PM »
Maybe so, but any email that an executive is reading should be relevant to their business, or it's effectively spam. No matter how nice or polite it is.
And a CEO's business is NOT to get opinions or suggestions from fans of a game, much less such a minor one such as CoH. They have lower level managers who are supposed to take care of communication with players, sorting and grouping suggestions and opinions, and delivering single reports out of hundreds or thousands of emails or forum posts.

When a CEO gets an email that, even if they still cared about the game, would be the province of a manager several steps down on the job organization chart, that email is spam to them.

My letter wasn't an email. I sent hard copy. In any case, considering that they had announced that they were cancelling CoH at the time, I'd say it was pretty relevant to their business especially if they wanted to keep all of those customers. But... apparently they didn't. *Shrug.*

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5974 on: September 01, 2015, 09:29:49 PM »
My letter wasn't an email. I sent hard copy. In any case, considering that they had announced that they were cancelling CoH at the time, I'd say it was pretty relevant to their business especially if they wanted to keep all of those customers. But... apparently they didn't. *Shrug.*

Who's "they?"  The fact that your letter was a hard copy letter actually helps your cause a bit, insofar as letters directly addressed to the CEO care of the business address were almost certainly pre-screened by assistants or secretaries, but it also means the odds the CEO actually saw it were minimal.

Getting back to the question, who's "they?"  Your specific complaint or perspective on City of Heroes is relevant to NCSoft in a general vague sense, but relevant to the CEO's work day practically not at all.  Its unfortunate, and players refused to accept it, but when the decision makers at NCSoft decided to shutter City of Heroes and Paragon Studios, they collectively did so knowing four things:

1.  Many existing City of Heroes players would not approve of the decision

2.  Some percentage of City of Heroes players would react sufficiently negatively so as to cost them those customers for all future cross-sell

3.  Some percentage of City of Heroes players would react vocally to the decision, denigrating the decision and the company in as many public channels as possible

4.  Some percentage of City of Heroes players would demand action be taken to reverse that decision.


So, my question is: what new piece of information did you attempt to communicate to the CEO of NCSoft, that he and/or his officers and employees collectively didn't already know?  At the time, I encouraged people to voice their opinions and express their conscience in whatever way they felt was appropriate.  But I also stated as a matter of fact that it was unlikely to matter (at least to NCSoft) for the simple reason that nothing any of those players did was lilkely to be new information.  Those expressions meant more to the community making them than it did to the target of them.  We were not going to engage them in an open discussion of their business practices.  Probability zero.  We were not going to be able to convince them to change their minds with a novel argument because we did not possess any new information that could change their minds.  The only thing we could maybe do is create such a disruption to them that they decided to reverse their decision in order to save the expense of dealing with the situation.  But we simply lacked the firepower necessary to accomplish that goal, and  in my opinion at no time were there enough City of Heroes players to accomplish that even if every single one of us acted in a coordinated fashion.

If I'm the CEO of NCSoft, you can't send me enough letters to change my mind, assuming I even made the decision in the first place.  You certainly can't send me enough letters to question the decision of a subbordinate officer about a business unit that's a round off error on my balance sheets.  The only thing you can do is send me enough letters and emails to disrupt my day and make it harder for me to do my job.  Which will make me all kinds of happy with you and sympathetic to your cause.

Mistress Bloodwrath

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5975 on: September 01, 2015, 09:48:08 PM »
Oh sure, they probably knew those four things, but their flailing over the backlash seems to indicate that they underestimated the numbers and damage that they predicted. I'd say every little letter that was sent communicated that basic fact. Hell, the stock crash that hit them during that time was just frosting on the cake and makes me wonder who realized that they were holding the hot potato.

As for "they?" The execs and managers who made the "brilliant" decision to cancel, whoever they may be. I don't think any actual names were supplied that I recall.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5976 on: September 02, 2015, 12:34:45 AM »
Oh sure, they probably knew those four things, but their flailing over the backlash seems to indicate that they underestimated the numbers and damage that they predicted.

"Flailing?"  I literally have no idea what could possibility be interpreted as anything other than the day after they announced the shutdown they moved on completely from it, and never once expressed any regret for it.  Or expressed anything about anything about it.

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Hell, the stock crash that hit them during that time was just frosting on the cake and makes me wonder who realized that they were holding the hot potato.

"Holding the hot potato?"  I think your narrative of how events played out has significant inconsistencies with reality.  You seem to have this mental picture of an epic battle between a few nasty NCSoft executives and the CoH player community.  In fact, this "fight" was totally one-sided, on our side.  We bombarded them with complaints.  They basically ignored us and went about their business.  And as far as the Paragon Studios shutdown is concerned, that's the end of that story.

blacksly

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5977 on: September 02, 2015, 12:42:44 AM »
In fact, this "fight" was totally one-sided, on our side.  We bombarded them with complaints.  They basically ignored us and went about their business.

They conned very VERY deep purple and 1-shotted all of us.
Rez plz?

Mistress Bloodwrath

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5978 on: September 02, 2015, 02:12:40 AM »
"Flailing?"  I literally have no idea what could possibility be interpreted as anything other than the day after they announced the shutdown they moved on completely from it, and never once expressed any regret for it.  Or expressed anything about anything about it.

Really, so you don't remember the pleading to make the emails and letters stop because it was making "work difficult?" Because I do. If they ignored us completely as you claim, they wouldn't have even said that. It would have just been flat, outright silence.

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"Holding the hot potato?"  I think your narrative of how events played out has significant inconsistencies with reality.

What else do you call that stock plummet after their announcement? It took a complete nosedive when the backlash manifested. It took a few months for it to start turning upward again; I know this because I remember watching it daily.

 
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You seem to have this mental picture of an epic battle between a few nasty NCSoft executives and the CoH player community.  In fact, this "fight" was totally one-sided, on our side.  We bombarded them with complaints.  They basically ignored us and went about their business.  And as far as the Paragon Studios shutdown is concerned, that's the end of that story.

And they've been stubborn about selling the game and IP, asking for outrageous prices. So? I'm not being as full of hyperbole as you're claiming, but there was some minimal effort at damage control made whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

Aggelakis

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #5979 on: September 02, 2015, 04:48:24 AM »
asking for outrageous prices
Actually, Nate Downes said there was a price that was doable. Of course, don't let that ruin your crusade.
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