And the mask comes off.

[LaughingAlex]

So they expected Paragon to develop 2 titles out of the profit from Coh? Wow. That seems ... Implosive.

I suspect it was ambitions from paragon studios themselves to do something else but it might have been that ncsoft wanted them to develop those projects at a time when they weren't as profitable.  You have to remember that city of heroes profits would go up and down as time went on, the release of issue 24 might have made development of other projects a possability, but ncsoft all we know may have asked them to start sooner than they financially could.  Thats just speculation, and also a common mistake publishers make with developers.

[Rejolt]

Not sure who or what was behind that. It was all part of the NDA signed when they left and we never really got to hear what they were making. I heard rumors of a minecraft clone but only rumors. I wouldn't say that was the deal.

At the peak before shutdown Paragon had 80+ employees most of which were programmers of some sort.

80+employees? Pfff, that's only what... 13 Masterminds at work?

[FloatingFatMan]

Not exactly, it may have been the motivating force.

NCSoft wanted to merge with Nexon. At the time only one studio was losing money - Paragon Studio. If you want to merge and show that everything you have is in great shape - you cut all the losing titles. Paragon Studios as I said earlier was losing money - City of Heroes could not run and support 2 other titles. City of Heroes was also tied completely to Paragon Studios. So to pull everything back to Korean oversight and to cut losing titles, they killed PS and also therefore CoH.

Nexon is not the reason they killed the game but it was the motivating factor.

Yep, that's pretty much what I remembered.  Seeing as NCSoft were PS's parent company, it seems likely it was NCSoft who had PS making those 2 other titles in the first place, and under-development titles NEVER make money until they're released, so PS losing money was NC's fault entirely.  One cannot expect the modest profits of one old title to fully support the development costs of two new ones...

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Yep, that's pretty much what I remembered.  Seeing as NCSoft were PS's parent company, it seems likely it was NCSoft who had PS making those 2 other titles in the first place, and under-development titles NEVER make money until they're released, so PS losing money was NC's fault entirely.  One cannot expect the modest profits of one old title to fully support the development costs of two new ones...

I doubt they did, otherwise the projects would have been stopped long, long ago.

EDIT: Care about CoH completely covering the costs that is.

[FloatingFatMan]

I doubt they did, otherwise the projects would have been stopped long, long ago.

At the very least, NCSoft would have had to give them clearance to start the 2 other projects.

[Ironwolf]

I agree, NCSoft as companies do - used the smokesceen of the other projects to "technically" correctly identify that Paragon Studios were not making a profit. It was parsing words carefully, they were right and yet also wrong. PS was making a profit on the one title that was in service.

The other 2 in development obviously were losing money. When however you are trying to look good for a new merger you clear the decks and apply a re-organization that is moving in a different direction. In other words quickly clear any loose ends that may stand in the way of making a boatload of money. Those at the top of PS knew it was coming and tried to buy themselves free. I have heard from several sources there was bad blood in both this attempt and the next one the Original Hail Mary. i do not know if it was the same person(s) that were involved.

This current attempt does not have the old players in it nor are they likely dealing with the same people at NCSoft - all of which opens up the possibilities. I do wonder if Chris Chung and his company are involved - if so that would be most awesome - as he was the one who purchased CoH for NCSoft and was key in developing it as a title until - I think 2009.

I could really stand behind that move!

[Wammo]

No news is NOT good news. It is just nothing. Let's not pretend this is a good thing. I am frustrated as are so many others on here. I know we are to be patient and thank our lucky stars that we have ANY chance whatsoever for a resurrection but it does not make the pain of waiting any better to be told "no news is good news."

[duane]

No news is NOT good news. It is just nothing. Let's not pretend this is a good thing. I am frustrated as are so many others on here. I know we are to be patient and thank our lucky stars that we have ANY chance whatsoever for a resurrection but it does not make the pain of waiting any better to be told "no news is good news."

It's ok.  I had my spazz out over Labor Day and then a calming peace came over me as I realized there are bigger things going on and the people "in the know" have a lot more to lose than my belly aching.

So if "no news is good news" is not enough, here is a new mantra:  "chill and check in again in a month." 

[Ironwolf]

Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.

I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?

I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.

We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.

[Netzahualcoyotl]

... people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal...   We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.

We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.

We can all take heart in this.... not a question of "If" but more like "when".... and wasn't "Patience" on the Virtue server?   

[drmanbot]

I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news?

IW,

unless I missed  something, which is easy in 600+ pages, that's the first I heard of them "agreeing to sell." Which is awesomtastic, but somehow I feel like I'm mis interpreting this statement.

[Aggelakis]

IW,

unless I missed  something, which is easy in 600+ pages, that's the first I heard of them "agreeing to sell." Which is awesomtastic, but somehow I feel like I'm mis interpreting this statement.

It's in the front page of both this and the original thread. A number was given and was deemed doable. That is "agreeing to sell" - now there is just negotiations on what happens then.

[OzonePrime]

Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.

I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?

I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.

We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.

Amen!

[Ironwolf]

IW,

unless I missed  something, which is easy in 600+ pages, that's the first I heard of them "agreeing to sell." Which is awesomtastic, but somehow I feel like I'm mis interpreting this statement.

Let me put this a different way:

You walk in and see a car you want to buy - the loan is pre-approved, the price is good but you want some options thrown in. You like the chrome rims and the top of the line stero. The dealer says that will cost you $x dollars extra - they agreed to sell the car - now what do you get for that money?

What if they said - well it will cost another $50k to give you the player accounts. We also could throw in the admin tools for 10K or you can write them yourself. Maybe we found the original written notes and some internal emails discussing the games running and server setups.

There are so many features to discuss and still the original agreement to sell is a given. From what I have heard they did not shut this game down in such a fashion as to sell it. It was shutdown to give proof of IP. So a disk image and little else at least easily acquired.

[FloatingFatMan]

Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.

I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?

Nobody wants THAT!  We all know and understand about NDA's and appreciate these things take time.  But my gawd, certain parties do like to drag things out a bit! :p

People just want to play again, as soon as possible! It's perfectly understandable that there's a bit of chafing going on, and posting about it really is the only way we have to express that.  Understand; we don't want to risk the deal or pressure the guys working hard on our behalf, we just want to fly again!

[ivanhedgehog]

Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.

I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?

I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.

We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.

uuuummmmm.. I wasnt paying attention and I set my hair on fire...anybody got some neosporin? maybe a lot of bandaids??is there an empath in the house??

[MegaWatt]

We can all take heart in this.... not a question of "If" but more like "when".... and wasn't "Patience" on the Virtue server?   

she was but it was an ironic name......wait you didnt mean literally did you ?

[Dev7on]

Yes, no news means the folks under NDA are still working and working is going forward. If they say - the deal is over NCSoft won't sell - that is bad news.

I would like you to explain to me how people under an NDA can give us news? It's only a handful of people and if they were to blow it now to mollify a few folks who are impatient and made NCSoft withdraw - how bad would that be?

I fail to understand how having people talking to NCSoft, them agreeing to sell and then working on what is included in the deal - is somehow bad news? We know for a fact that is what's is going on. We aren't making that part up NCSoft let them release that part out to the public.

We are standing in the dark with our torches burning and we can see in the distance a small pinpoint of light, don't drop the torch yet.

My torch has been low for the past 2 months now. When Ironwolf gave me some encouragement my torch lid up a little bit. I still have hope and faith that we're all going to come back home soon. Sometimes I feel depressed because it's been 2 years of the shut down already.

[Angel Phoenix77]

My torch has been low for the past 2 months now. When Ironwolf gave me some encouragement my torch lid up a little bit. I still have hope and faith that we're all going to come back home soon. Sometimes I feel depressed because it's been 2 years of the shut down already.

your not alone in thinking like this, I too sometimes want to know what is going on. Then I remember that I am not apart of the team. I know sometimes I wish I could hoop and holler about no new news but then I remember what I have done in the past. So even though I am sure a lot of people have seen me log in to this website, what might not be known is that I am busy doing other things such as watching youtube videos, watching dvd's, doing homework, or playing the secret world.
I am glad for IW and others for keeping the faith and forging ahead, most of the time this is what I have been trying to do.
Also IW I agree with everything you have said, while it can be frustrating to hear no news is good news. It just means everything is still going forward.

[Sermon]

So do we actually know that some people involved are under NDA or is that just speculation as to why some people involved haven't been posting?