Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1749519 times)

Nightmarer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3420 on: October 04, 2014, 05:13:40 AM »
I kinda like City of Heroes: Fred

Actually, that's catchy and far better than City of Heroes: Mortimer  :P

Burnt Toast

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Re: And the mask comes off
« Reply #3421 on: October 04, 2014, 05:26:26 AM »

We get it you hated the Incarnate system... BUT please show me where datamining said that only a "tiny %" experienced the Incarnate system....fyi DA is part of the Incarnate system as well as the itrials.


All in all your post simply insinuates that people who do like the itrials are WoW grind fest lovers who are l33t and just want mad loot... who don't care about the community...or love the game as a whole... If that was your intention... congrats because that's what I got from your post :) Way to over-generalize people....

Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials. I totally understand how a new player, fresh from 80 levels of WoW grinding, might race their way through 50 levels of the standard CoH content and then jump for joy upon reaching BAF. I'm sure it felt like home to them. But not to me.

I felt a unique kinship with the kind of players who formed the Taxicab service, or who would see a newbie struggling a bit and dump some Inf on them just because they could. I felt very little kinship with most of the iTrial lovers. From what I gather, the datamining seemed to indicate that only a tiny % of the game's population experienced the Incarnate system, and honestly I'm not that surprised. CoH was a spectacular MMORPG; but IMO the Incarnate system wasn't CoH. It was an alien organism hosted within CoH.

Even from a design perspective, the Incarnate system felt like a massive compromise, as if the devs were stuck between a rock (l33t players seeking end-game progression) and a hard place (a codebase completely hostile to raising of the level cap and the expansion of the power set system that was already straining from the existance of primary, secondary, pool, and epic/patron sets). On the one hand, it could be argued that the Incarnate system was better than no system of advanced powers at all. But the take-away for me is that any "spiritual successor" to CoH under development today ought to seriously re-think its approach to the "end game" and not make it feel like all the other MMOs out there because, frankly, most of us loved CoH precisely because it didn't try to feel like all the others (which mostly just wanted to feel like WoW).

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3422 on: October 04, 2014, 11:14:52 AM »
In a perfect world..where we were able to port everything over to UE4 and be able to develop it (*raises hand* I will help write for it, I would do it for for free..well for cookies) I would name the new release

City of Heroes
Volume 3
Issue 1 : Calm before the Storm.

but have the cover be in classic Silver age...with City of Heroes in big bold letters at the top of the box, the Volume and issue in a little box and "Calm before the storm" in big letters at the bottom.

Minotaur

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Re: And the mask comes off
« Reply #3423 on: October 04, 2014, 11:27:08 AM »
Insofar as no game can please everybody all the time, you're right. But I find it difficult to understand how someone who loved the L1-50 game could love something so incongruent as the iTrials. I totally understand how a new player, fresh from 80 levels of WoW grinding, might race their way through 50 levels of the standard CoH content and then jump for joy upon reaching BAF. I'm sure it felt like home to them. But not to me.


I loved the 1-50 game, I had over 250 characters in total and 80+ 50s, very few of them PLd in any way, playing from July 04 to shutdown.

I also enjoyed the incarnate trials, I had many +1s and 20 or so +3s IIRC.

Victory had a fun community of people who regularly did the i-trials and that (as with the rest of the game) is what made it fun. I also solo incarnated a couple of characters.

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3424 on: October 04, 2014, 04:08:01 PM »

City of Heroes
Volume 3
Issue 1 : Calm before the Storm.



That's not bad at all!
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

Excidia

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3425 on: October 04, 2014, 05:05:04 PM »
I refer to it as CoH:Unreal
You don't ever leave someone FOR dead.  You leave them DEAD.

Zerohour

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3426 on: October 04, 2014, 05:42:18 PM »
Actually, that's catchy and far better than City of Heroes: Mortimer  :P

Fred?  Mortimer?  I don't get it. Did I miss something?

kierthos

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3427 on: October 04, 2014, 06:16:52 PM »
Fred might be referring to the HERO system (pen and paper RPG), where the fifth edition was called 'Fred'.

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3428 on: October 04, 2014, 06:35:09 PM »
Fred might be referring to the HERO system (pen and paper RPG), where the fifth edition was called 'Fred'.
And as far as i know Mortimer is referring to... someone named Mortimer?
So far so good. Onward and upward!

ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3429 on: October 04, 2014, 07:14:51 PM »
Fred?  Mortimer?  I don't get it. Did I miss something?

i just think fred is a cool name....but then I had a demon mm named baalzebarbie

LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3430 on: October 04, 2014, 07:31:35 PM »
I refer to it as CoH:Unreal

I would really refrain from including unreal in the title, even with the unreal engine.  I wouldn't want the unreal community coming to us and then complaining about everything because the title is in there.  While the unreal engine has a long history in a lot of great games, the unreal games themselves has had an especially unpleasant fanbase rivaling the sonic fanbase in the level of dividedness, closed-mindedness and dislike towards the games themselves it's especially hard to not to understand why epic games distanced themselves for a time from the unreal games themselves.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

zslane

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3431 on: October 04, 2014, 09:23:08 PM »
As for those who were subbed and simply didn't enjoy the incarnate content, what would you have had those of us who did enjoy iTrials do?

I'd have you keep on running the iTrials. Getting rid of them after the fact wouldn't have served anybody's interests.

At the same time, however, I'd like to think that had the devs given us an Incarnate system (which I use to collectively refer to the iTrials as well as the new power system they unlocked) that was consistent with the systems and gameplay of the rest of CoH, more of the subbing CoH community would have eaten it up and enjoyed it even more than what we got. And after all, if you're a big fan of the game and the innumerable ways it was different from all the other MMOs out there, "more like CoH" is axiomatically superior/preferable to "less like CoH",  is it not?

It's too late to do anything about it for CoH, but there's still time to influence the future "successors to CoH". I'm hoping the devs of CoT, H&V, and VO will take the opportunity to reevaluate Paragon Studio's approach to end game content and make theirs more, not less, congruent with the rest of their game(s).

Harpospoke

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3432 on: October 04, 2014, 09:26:59 PM »
And as far as i know Mortimer is referring to... someone named Mortimer?
That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd.   There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".

pinballdave

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3433 on: October 04, 2014, 10:17:59 PM »
That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd.   There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".

Classic movie. Now let's buy Level 30 IO enhancement futures on the Wentworth's market

Minotaur

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3434 on: October 04, 2014, 10:18:22 PM »
That name always reminds me of this 80s movie called Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd.   There was another main character played brilliantly by Don Ameche called "Mortimer".

Possibly unrelated, Mortimer was also the original name for Mickey Mouse

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3435 on: October 04, 2014, 11:51:16 PM »
Possibly unrelated, Mortimer was also the original name for Mickey Mouse
And at least one or two Mickey Mouse parodies of varying levels of inappropriateness.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3436 on: October 05, 2014, 12:49:29 AM »
Possibly unrelated, Mortimer was also the original name for Mickey Mouse

I was think of Randolph and Mortimer, they where were a couple of bookies till they got broke then saved by a prince.

pinballdave

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3437 on: October 05, 2014, 01:53:55 AM »
I was think of Randolph and Mortimer, they where were a couple of bookies till they got broke then saved by a prince.

Those were the same guys as in Trading Places.

MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3438 on: October 05, 2014, 01:56:10 AM »
Those were the same guys as in Trading Places.

Yes that is what I was referencing. They also make a cameo in "Coming to America"

ukaserex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #3439 on: October 05, 2014, 02:58:06 AM »
I'd have you keep on running the iTrials. Getting rid of them after the fact wouldn't have served anybody's interests.

At the same time, however, I'd like to think that had the devs given us an Incarnate system (which I use to collectively refer to the iTrials as well as the new power system they unlocked) that was consistent with the systems and gameplay of the rest of CoH, more of the subbing CoH community would have eaten it up and enjoyed it even more than what we got. And after all, if you're a big fan of the game and the innumerable ways it was different from all the other MMOs out there, "more like CoH" is axiomatically superior/preferable to "less like CoH",  is it not?

It's too late to do anything about it for CoH, but there's still time to influence the future "successors to CoH". I'm hoping the devs of CoT, H&V, and VO will take the opportunity to reevaluate Paragon Studio's approach to end game content and make theirs more, not less, congruent with the rest of their game(s).

That's certainly a fair enough thing to hope for. However, in defense of Paragon Studios, I seem to recall reading something Positron(Matt Miller) said about the incarnate content. They had this code that was undocumented, or poorly written, or had other issues that made changes difficult to implement. I think, if they'd had the chance to raise the cap to 60 or 70, they would have done that. Apparently, for whatever reason, that level cap of 50 was there to stay. (I seriously would love to look at that code and see why - not that I'd be able to make much sense of it unless it were in Java or C++.)

So, they came up with the incarnate system - and probably had it planned out since they created Ouroboros.
You did acknowledge the "rock and a hard place" that the dev team found themselves in, but I never thought of it like that. I looked at it like they had an opportunity to solve a problem - which is what a computer programmer is trained to do. It's all about problem solving. Some solutions are eloquent, others are bloated. Kind of like some of the dialogue we see in the forums here.

Some, like Codewalker, express themselves concisely and clearly. Others, like me, use humongous paragraphs to convey what some could do in a sentence or two.

I'd thought at first I strongly disagreed with you, but it seems you did make a qualifying statement about loving to play the 1-50 content. And, I don't think I did. At least, not the way others did. To me, it was always a means to an end. That end used to be level 50, tackling Dreck solo just to see if I could beat him. But with incarnate content, I got tools which would help my squishies deal with AVs like Dreck. Pets, nukes, buffs, debuffs - all in addition to the primary, secondary and Patron/Epic power pools.

I certainly did not enjoy Keyes, except for the AV fight. In fact, except for the AV fights, the only trials I enjoyed were UGT (because of the number of AVs and the guaranteed rare or very rare component.)MoM and the Magisterium. That last fight against Cole, having to zip in and out of lightning blasts was a real hoot. Probably the most fun I've ever had playing the game, particularly when going for The Really Hard Way.
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