And the mask comes off.

[AlienOne]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

When a "2" is added to a game's title, it usually means there is a different storyline and several differences that make it easy to differentiate between the two games. I think there is confusion about your project because the general knowledge is that you're basically re-making City of Heroes 1 and releasing that "as-is" and then improving on it and adding to it later. To me, that says "1.5" in the same manner that there was a "Scary Movie 3.5" DVD. It was the same movie, but with editing changes, additions, and special features that wasn't included in the original Scary Movie 3.

Now, if what you did was re-make City of Heroes 1 and DIDN'T release it "as-is" and instead concentrated on adding new things (like, for example, a moon base), improved on mechanics, added to the lore, maybe added a powerset or two, etc, and then released it, you could probably call it City of Heroes 2, because it would technically be an all-new experience.

[This is just my opinion based off of how many other companies do things--such as the difference between an expansion pack for Call of Duty (United Offensive) and making an all-new Call of Duty 2]

[duane]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

A company actively producing a product and the volunteer effort, while greatly appreciated, is behind us.  I think you guys are fantastic but I want a studio producing the product with engaging content and timely updates. 

....And I send money some where each month too to keep the lights on. 

[FloatingFatMan]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

For me, a large part of a sequel would be moving to a new engine, which you've got covered. Anything other than that is just gravy, really...

I guess it should also consist of only new content, not the old missions etc...

[FloatingFatMan]

A company actively producing a product and the volunteer effort, while greatly appreciated, is behind us.  I think you guys are fantastic but I want a studio producing the product with engaging content and timely updates.

You won't be getting that; not a professional game studio, anyway.

[Yoru-hime]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

I suppose that I'd say that 1.5 is the effort to get the old game ported and operational on a new engine. The code would be different, but it'd still be the original content (at least to start with). ITF, Quarterhell, Mender Lazarus, cape missions and all the rest. There wouldn't be much of a learning curve for me going into APR, just finding out what didn't quite port over exactly the same.

I'd expect that a CoH 2 would share the same IP, but would be a new game with an entirely new set of content.

Not that I value one over the other necessarily.

[KennonGL]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

A "2" in the title typically denotes an entirely different game.  Normally with a continuation of the IP story line, but not directly related to the original (ie Diablo, Diablo 2, Diablo 3).

APR is really an odd duck in this regards.  It's stated goal is to port the existing game to modern technology, not to make a "new" game.  That would tend to be labeled as DLC or Expansion level stuff [even though it is probably actually more difficult than just starting over in many regards].

If it was up to me, I'd continue calling it APR until such time as the licensing deals are real and things ramp up to full work.

Then I'd call the entire project -- City of Heroes: Revival  (or possibly City of Heroes:  Forever)

[Balince]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

This is pretty easy for me. CoH 2 would mean that it's a different game, new powers, new zones, a new storyline, new enhancements system/something totally different, just an all around different game except for the core feel of CoH. Revival would be CoH 1.5 to me because it's just a remake of the same game we knew, with graphic updates and whatever else patches or balances they want to make to the game, also adding a couple new zones, powersets, IO's and stuff like that post release.

[Excidia]

Doom is still Doom no matter how many times it's ported...Doom 2 is a different game.

Cannon printer hacked to run Doom: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29203776?ocid=socialflow_twitter


e-

[Fridgy Daiere]

What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

Same universe and similar mechanics, but a completely different starting point and all new content.

This is probably why APR has been dubbed CoX 1.5; you'll have a different engine and slightly different mechanics, but everything else (i.e. costumes, powers, stories, main characters, zones, etc.) will be the same, or as close to the same as possible.

At least in the beginning.    I think the reason I loved the original so much is because it didn't need a 2.0...the game kept expanding and giving us new content with each new issue, so a sequel was unnecessary.  Most of the CoH 2 yearning I read on the old boards had more to do with wanting new engine (graphics, physics, or whatever) capabilities rather than wanting a whole new game.

And that's what you'll be giving us if the NCSoft deal goes through.  That, and hopefully the reality of being able to play indefinitely...

[Remaugen]

Then I'd call the entire project -- City of Heroes: Revival  (or possibly City of Heroes:  Forever)

I like that! Or perhaps "World of Heroes"

Same universe and similar mechanics, but a completely different starting point and all new content.

This is probably why APR has been dubbed CoX 1.5; you'll have a different engine and slightly different mechanics, but everything else (i.e. costumes, powers, stories, main characters, zones, etc.) will be the same, or as close to the same as possible.

At least in the beginning.    I think the reason I loved the original so much is because it didn't need a 2.0...the game kept expanding and giving us new content with each new issue, so a sequel was unnecessary.  Most of the CoH 2 yearning I read on the old boards had more to do with wanting new engine (graphics, physics, or whatever) capabilities rather than wanting a whole new game.

And that's what you'll be giving us if the NCSoft deal goes through.  That, and hopefully the reality of being able to play indefinitely...

Exactly the way I feel about it too.

[Ironwolf]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

I would say porting to UR4 - new maps and all the old original stuff allowing for continued development IS CoH2. The graphics and potential will be there. I think a lot of people just don't understand what a difference going to a new engine will make.

[srmalloy]

Personally, I liked the end game Incarnate Stuff, overall.   My only real problem with it was the focus on RAIDS over almost everything else early on.  I always felt like CoH worked best, for me at least, because of the 5-8 man team sizes.  I'd have REALLY liked some of the iTrials more if they had been Task Forces, not large scale raids.  I think the Lambda is the best example of this, followed closely by TPN and Minds of Mayhem. These really could have been set to run from 6-8 members total with the difficulty of the enemies scaled down slightly to compensate for the smaller teams and I think it would have been "better".  First, I think it would have "felt" more super going against some of these foes in smaller teams.  Somehow, piling on to 1 guy with 22 other heroes and still taking 10 minutes to take him down doesn't seem impressive.

No, I think that the Incarnate trials as implemented worked reasonably well. What I thought was missing is what you wanted to see -- 'raids' that were TF-sized. The overarching plans of the Praetorians were grandiose enough, and far-reaching enough, to require large groups of heroes to deal with them. What the devs missed, in my opinion, was that while what they were planning needed to be countered, not everything they were doing was monolithic enough to require trial-sized groups; there was endless room to create TF-sized Incarnate content where it was a single team of characters going into Praetoria  (or into Paragon City or the Rogue Isles) to disrupt one or another of the projects the Praetorians were carrying out in support of their main efforts -- an incarnate TF that would have you chasing the supply chain for building the War Walkers to disrupt their production or corrupt their programming, or to destroy the production lines and stockpiles for the drugs that Mother Mayhem uses to help condition telepaths during their induction into the Seers. Going through Paragon City defeating and interrogating members of a villain group that's been bribed to provide safe houses for Praetorian infiltration teams to get the locations of those safe houses, one of which coughs up the location where the portal they used to get here is, going through the portal and destroying that installation, then retreating back through the portal before it blows up. Adding a tier of Incarnate content between the single-person content in Dark Astoria and the trials that we had would have given us a wider range of options for the endgame and given the devs a way to fill out gaps in what we saw of Praetoria.

[Scendera]

You won't be getting that; not a professional game studio, anyway.

Pros gotta start somewhere. Ever occur to you that while for now this is an amateur, volunteer effort, it has every possibility of becoming more if the deal should go thru?

The difference here is practice, an acknowledgement, and a paycheck. She's getting the first, the second will come, and the third with the deal and success.

I have faith in her.

Now, as for where is the line between 1.5 and 2? I'd look to Everquest and Everquest 2 for inspiration on where to draw the line. Everquest got an engine upgrade with Shadows of Luclin, its third expansion. Still the same game, just using more advanced shaders and DX9.0c. Same characters, same mechanics, same starting point and lore/progression, just shinier.

Everquest 2 is a different graphics engine, different mechanics, different characters and classes, entirely different starting point and progression, only partially shared lore.

From everything you've told us so far, ARP is going to be akin to the upgrades EQ got, or WoW will be getting with Warlords of Draenor. Same story, same powersets and mechanics, as closely as possible. Same lore, same starting point, same progression. Merely new, shinier graphics engine to take advantage of advances in hardware and software and continue the story on a clean, supported, and well understood codebase.

IMO CoH 1.5 is appropriate, and that's certainly not intended as an insult!

[lamer]

I would say porting to UR4 - new maps and all the old original stuff allowing for continued development IS CoH2. The graphics and potential will be there. I think a lot of people just don't understand what a difference going to a new engine will make.

I'll respectfully disagree -- the exact same content, just on a new engine, doesn't seem like a sequel to the game (which would merit the 2) to me. Continues updates are great, but is that enough grounds to label it a sequel? Most MMOs get continued updates but never tick a number up from them. I do agree that it's a lot of work internally to make it work, but I'm not so sure on naming it a sequel. I'd say 1.5 is better for it.

Like I said though, respect your opinion on it -- it's a question of semantics either way, so it's all about opinions!

[ivanhedgehog]

I'm curious what distinction people are looking for between what makes Revival "CoH 1.5" and no "CoH 2"?

I'm curious, because I've heard people on both sides... saying basically "Revival is CoH2" and "Revival is 1.5. Not 2".
What do you guys think makes something a true "CoH 2"?

sprinkles on the donuts

[InOnePiece]

Does it have to be either COH 1.5 or 2? Can't we just call it, oh I don't know, COH 10?

[Azcat]

Hello everyone. I haven't kept up with the forum in a while and wanted to know what the latest update was if someone could let me know. Is the game a go, a no or a maybe still. 

[LaughingAlex]

I'll respectfully disagree -- the exact same content, just on a new engine, doesn't seem like a sequel to the game (which would merit the 2) to me. Continues updates are great, but is that enough grounds to label it a sequel? Most MMOs get continued updates but never tick a number up from them. I do agree that it's a lot of work internally to make it work, but I'm not so sure on naming it a sequel. I'd say 1.5 is better for it.

Like I said though, respect your opinion on it -- it's a question of semantics either way, so it's all about opinions!

I'll be honest, i'd rather a new engine be used for CoH2.  CoH had a fundamental problem with it's rendering engine, thats not really much of a secret.  As for most mmo's not getting a sequal, they never get popular enough in their lifetime to warrent one 90% of the time.  CoH even did very good by mmo standards.  But Everquest as an example would never had gotten a sequal had it not been popular.  WoW hasn't gotten a sequal but it certainly qualifies, likewise.

It really depends if it actually is or not though I'd guess.  Where would CoH 2 take place eh?  The old paragon city?  Just another thought I had, as I personally favor new maps with sequals.

Know, perhaps thats a direction the game could go after we finally get it back.  Besides taking to the stars, start implementing other cities here and there once in a while for the two main sides(or maybe a third to for praetorians).  We had the rogue isles, and the Imperial City, sure but we could use another every so often.

[Yoru-hime]

Does it have to be either COH 1.5 or 2? Can't we just call it, oh I don't know, COH 10?

<insert binary joke here>

Y'know, for all the theories about how Windows is naming their newest operating system, the idea that someone there is stuck in base 9 hasn't occurred to me until now.

[Ankhammon]

This is pretty easy for me. CoH 2 would mean that it's a different game, new powers, new zones, a new storyline, new enhancements system/something totally different, just an all around different game except for the core feel of CoH. Revival would be CoH 1.5 to me because it's just a remake of the same game we knew, with graphic updates and whatever else patches or balances they want to make to the game, also adding a couple new zones, powersets, IO's and stuff like that post release.

What's kind of interesting is that CoH pretty much had a CoH2 in City of Villains. It met all the criteria except ported over a bunch of powersets.
I don't think that Praetoria quite met the size requirement to be a CoH3 but other than that it had a lot of the elements too.

Fact is that CoH was such a large and constantly expanding game that things like a "true" expansion to a CoH 2 was never needed.