And the mask comes off.

[Medispider Reznov]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.

And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.

Was this due to technical issues, or...?

[Arcana]

The unknown knowns are the the knowns which are known, but due to no hard information knowning the knowns we have to assume they are unknown.

Actually, there is such a thing as an unknown known.  These are things you know, but don't know you know.  I used to field questions from players all the time on the forums, and sometimes someone asked a question that was worded in a weird or twisted way that obscured the answer, and rather than answer it I would translate the question into something that was simpler.  Then the player realized they knew the answer to the question all along, they just didn't know they knew the answer because they were thinking about the question in an inaccessible way.

[JanessaVR]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.

And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.

Was this due to technical issues, or...?

Because we don't have the source code for the game.

[Arcana]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.

And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.

Was this due to technical issues, or...?

I would say that one direct impediment to doing this with City of Heroes is that its significantly different to leak the source code for a game being developed by hundreds of developers, and a game being developed primarily by a dozen.  Safety in numbers: if a private server was leaked out of Paragon, I would have a decent shot at guessing *who* did it.  For Lineage or Warhammer, that would be far more difficult.

Additionally, there are private servers for some MMOs and not others.  This is a very hit and miss thing you have to get lucky to see.  There's no reason to believe that if it happens for any particular MMO its easy to do for every MMO technically or practically.

[BadWolf]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

Was this due to technical issues, or...?

There may or may not have been an ongoing effort to do exactly that, which may or may not be continuing. Basically, everything server-side needs to be reverse-engineered from the client in order to make a playable game on a private server (because as Arcana mentioned, it was not leaked to the plaers like some other MMO source code), and this is not something that can be done easily or quickly by hobbyists. In addition, since there may be potential legal hassles invovled (it's probably legal to undertake such an activity, but nobody wants to be in the position to have to hire a lawyer to prove that) any efforts along those lines are proceeding so far under the radar that some people believe they don't exist. Either that, or they don't exist. I'm not sure.

So short answer: Yes, technical issues. But not necessarily insurmountable ones, in the event that the deal falls through.

[Ironwolf]

It is legal to reverse engineeer - it is illegal to do anything with the product of that reverse engineering.

So you can look to see how something was done - but you can't then sell a product made the same way - except in some countries you can. In the USA nope.

[Medispider Reznov]

as far as I know the way L2 escaped the loop hole, was the fact that they didn't take any payment for the privilege of playing, and used only Donations ( and gave out some "gifts" for your trouble)

[FloatingFatMan]

It is legal to reverse engineeer - it is illegal to do anything with the product of that reverse engineering.

So you can look to see how something was done - but you can't then sell a product made the same way - except in some countries you can. In the USA nope.

Sell it, no... But how about give it away? I'm not aware of any private MMO server authors selling their emulators...

[KennonGL]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

Back in the day I reverse engineered an Ultima Online server.  I did it mainly as a training exercise and time waster for myself, so it took me near to a year to get working.  Trust me, it's not an easy thing to do.

I did end up with a very playable home server of UO (with all the modifications to the game that *I* wanted in place) though . . . well with one limitation that I was never able to find the cause of or fix.  Whenever 2 player characters would first come within visual range of each other, one or both of the clients would crash.  I know it's a bug somewhere in the mob spawn/visual refresh packets, but I never could track it down enough to fix.

[archaist]

It is legal to reverse engineeer - it is illegal to do anything with the product of that reverse engineering.

So you can look to see how something was done - but you can't then sell a product made the same way - except in some countries you can. In the USA nope.

Say I reverse engineer CoH and then made it public and didn't take donations or payments? I would just pay for the servers out of my own pocket.

To my knowledge this is still something of a grey area in the USA atm.

[Medispider Reznov]

Like I said archaist - both L2 and UO servers are alive and well, and they only take donations.

[KennonGL]

Say I reverse engineer CoH and then made it public and didn't take donations or payments? I would just pay for the servers out of my own pocket.

To my knowledge this is still something of a grey area in the USA atm.

To even approach real legality, you'd have to reverse engineer not only the server side, but the client side (and all art assets, etc).  Then you'd really only have the copyright/IP issues to deal with, which of course still leaves you in legal troubles/suable position [especially if you make any money off of it].  But if you're using the existing client software, you're still using their assets.

[Ironwolf]

I don't think it is grey - I think it is illegal. that is why such a thing would have to spontaneously appear on a hundred sites at once. Whack a mole is never easy.

It may not be necessary soon, we do have a team working on it, our top men - with their best bad idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j--JqYjvdYk

[Mistress Urd]

Some have said that Win 9 won't kill every other game and program in the known world - on top of that a LOT of people still use Windows XP.

Look at this chart: http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-xp-market-share-2014-2

As of Feb of this year more people were STILL on Windows XP than Windows 8 in 2014.

Windows 8 was an excellent case of why beta testing feedback is important. When putting out a new product, it has to be better and cheaper for people to move to it. 

[JanessaVR]

Windows 8 was an excellent case of why beta testing feedback is important. When putting out a new product, it has to be better and cheaper for people to move to it.

They had plenty of beta feedback on Win8 - they just chose to ignore it because they know better than us about what we need to be doing.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Say I reverse engineer CoH and then made it public and didn't take donations or payments? I would just pay for the servers out of my own pocket.

To my knowledge this is still something of a grey area in the USA atm.

I am no expert in the matter.  But I would imagine this could still warrant some kind of repercussions.  The CoH IP would still be NCSofts property and asset.  You may not be making money off of it, but you are using it without their permission.  And would be allowing others to use it as well.  It probably wouldn't be more then a letter telling to shut down the game but I don't think it would be allowed to slide. Considering they haven't allowed it with other titles.

 EA has never really seemed to care about private servers(surprisingly) UO had private servers up when the game was still relatively successful.  They still have plenty.  Same with Earth & Beyond and apparently Warhammer too.  It may just be EA turning a blind eye to it.

[Blondeshell]

Also I know I am greatly GREATLY offtopic on this, but I've been desperately looking for this for years - even before CoX was scheduled to go down.

My question is - Where do I find the old CoV Character creation music? The one that basically sounded like a bombastic version of the Main CoV Login theme

Paragon Wiki is your friend!

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Music

Specifically, the section near the bottom for Character Creation Screen Music.

[archaist]

Like I said archaist - both L2 and UO servers are alive and well, and they only take donations.

I don't know enough about these games or private servers in general, but It's my understand that no legal action was taken by the companies against the private servers. It was their choice to let it slide. I don't think that there is currently any precedent in actual law where a company has filed against a private server that was open for free. Which is what I meant by grey area.

[Baja]

I'm a newb on the block I admit to it, but I have a question - why didn't anyone ( because I checked for this regularly... not here tho >.>) just set up a privet server of the game and make it run like that? Before this possibility arose obviously, I'd much rather see a server that runs with NCsoft's blessing. ( even though I hate then with a venomous passion )

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/index.php

Warhammer seams to have done just that and EA doesn't seam to care.

And before people say NCsoft is rigerouse about these things - no it isn't, in the times od darkness and youth.... aaaround 2007-8 or so, me and my friends played Lineage 2 on privet servers, and the amounts of those servers were UNCANNY, I had a metric shitton of servers to pick from, high rates, low rates, custom events, custom PVP it was a hassle just to pick one, and NCsoft was either wholly ignorant of these ( which I kinda doubt, there were thousands) or quite frankly didn't care.

Was this due to technical issues, or...?

They exist and are most likely in high numbers. If someone like Arcana can hack the test server (or live I can't remember the story) chances are she also had the source. The problem is a lot of coh players aren't actually that friendly to outsiders. As much as this community is constantly self proclaimed as the best community, it's extremely clique based. Don't get me wrong it's not like everyone will just ignore you completely, it's more of a high school situation. Sure they may act friendly and easy going, but make a mistake or disagree and chances are they'll sit and talk s*** about you. I learned this the hard way by making a post about how coh would be shutting down within 1-2 years, within 40 minutes there were 18 pages of raw hate saying how stupid I was for thinking this was possible, a year and a half later it shut down. Another example is the amount of racism and just flat out stupidity projected towards ncsoft at shut down, yeah I was upset and miss this game so much more than any of even my closest friends realize, that doesn't give me or anyone else for that matter the right to say some of the things they did.

Just imagine if any major MMO was run by a group of people who have no code of ethics and is not required to follow any set of rules to remove players, unless your prepared to stroke some serious ego chances are you'll eventually upset the wrong person and have yourself removed. Also seeing how the size of our community is much smaller than some other major names in the industry lots of people just picked up and moved on.

This probably isn't exactly the response most wanted to see but it is just my opinion, I'm sure many disagree and very very few will agree given the circumstances. I was never good at the whole "playing along" thing though, I have this terrible tendency of speaking my mind.

[JanessaVR]

Please ignore Baja - there are not any super-secret CoH private servers in existence, ranting conspiracy theories to the contrary.  If there were, there's no way it would have stayed a secret for 2 years and we'd be playing them.