Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1750461 times)

Ultimate15

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2660 on: September 20, 2014, 05:00:08 PM »
Alright, everyone. Let's take a break from these CRAZY long 'math' posts (seriously, my head is starting to hurt lol) and watch a video about what it would be like to have the Power Rangers in Paragon:

http://youtu.be/RqKkGYH4lPY

God, I miss this. I wonder if there's ANYTHING we can do in the meantime to help Nate and his team out? Anything at all? Or do we have no choice but to play the waiting game until a decision is made? I'd like to assist, if I can.

#arewethereyet?
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Aggelakis

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2661 on: September 20, 2014, 05:09:10 PM »
I feel awful.  I paid  little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....
I spent all my time in game having fun. Whatever I was doing, it was fun; if it wasn't fun, I stopped doing it.
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gypsyav

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2662 on: September 20, 2014, 05:38:07 PM »
I spent all my time in game having fun. Whatever I was doing, it was fun; if it wasn't fun, I stopped doing it.

Same here, I never worried about the math. Just what was fun for me. When I started playing I had to do math all day at my job, didn't really want to worry about it when I was home.
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Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2663 on: September 20, 2014, 05:59:40 PM »
I feel awful.  I paid  little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....

Actually, I often recommended to new players that they avoid the forums altogether.  Not because our forums were particularly nasty, ours were far better than most in that regard.  Actually ironically because the discussion tended to be more civil than average, it could lull you into getting more involved in discussing the minutia of the game to the detriment of actually playing the game.  Many players could discuss the fine points of the game without it hurting their enjoyment of the game.  Not every player could.  If you couldn't, you shouldn't, so I suggested.  There's no shame in admitting that you had no interest in discussing the dry mathematics of the game.  The nice thing about City of Heroes is that you didn't need to know anything about the math of the game to enjoy playing it at a reasonably high level.

Heck I didn't even use Mids to build my own characters until around I18 (I did use it a lot to analyze other players builds).  I preferred to just build from the seat of my pants, so to speak.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2664 on: September 20, 2014, 06:00:32 PM »
Same here, I never worried about the math. Just what was fun for me. When I started playing I had to do math all day at my job, didn't really want to worry about it when I was home.

Some of us found the math to be fun.
Personally, I found the math to be a means to more fun. I...had a thing for building characters that were as O.P. as humanly possible, heh.
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Baja

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2665 on: September 20, 2014, 06:39:06 PM »
Some of us found the math to be fun.
Personally, I found the math to be a means to more fun. I...had a thing for building characters that were as O.P. as humanly possible, heh.

I kind of regret not putting more effort into this. I built a ss/wp brute that I loved, problem was I sucked at building regen builds. I could build defense builds all day long with ease, but I'm pretty sure just about anyone could do defense builds quite easily. I'm not exactly the best mathematician but the kind required to make these sort of builds isn't exactly the most complex stuff :P definitely plan on giving it another shot if this game is revived.

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2666 on: September 20, 2014, 06:50:10 PM »
Some of us found the math to be fun.
Personally, I found the math to be a means to more fun. I...had a thing for building characters that were as O.P. as humanly possible, heh.

Me too, some called me a mad scientist with some of my builds.
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LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2667 on: September 20, 2014, 06:54:56 PM »
I feel awful.  I paid  little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....

I had fun to man :).  I usually didn't check my numbers unless I saw something very unusual happen or had a bad streak.  My builds were designed more to maximize the fun for me at times, I didn't make a min/max build simply cause I thought it was the "best and only thing that should be used" but more "Ok this is how to get the most out of this character for me", and I had fun doing that.  In fact I felt that, other than some lame pure healer build that was obsolete and useless in a competent team that there was no real wrong way to play a character for the most part, just needed to know what the crown jewels were in the sets :).

I had fun coming up with strategies and I did that by simply playing the archtypes and using my judgement on how the powers were used.  IOing a character only took me a 10th of the time in comparison(though I never stopped tweaking and adjusting a build after I did that in between fights and roleplaying).

Edit: Heck, I'd say i'm still doing that today, just in a different game.  (fallout: new vegas w/ project nevada currently, but I also experimented alot with skyrim with the skyrim redone mod)
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Teikiatsu

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2668 on: September 20, 2014, 06:59:56 PM »
I feel awful.  I paid  little attention to the math and spent more time having fun.
Not saying you guys didn't have fun playing either....

Different strokes for different folks.  PnP RPGs, CCGs etc have people who love to run the numbers too.
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Waffles

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2669 on: September 20, 2014, 07:00:46 PM »
Alright, everyone. Let's take a break from these CRAZY long 'math' posts (seriously, my head is starting to hurt lol) and watch a video about what it would be like to have the Power Rangers in Paragon:

http://youtu.be/RqKkGYH4lPY

God, I miss this. I wonder if there's ANYTHING we can do in the meantime to help Nate and his team out? Anything at all? Or do we have no choice but to play the waiting game until a decision is made? I'd like to assist, if I can.

#arewethereyet?

...Wait, how did he get a 1586 hit at the 0:57ish mark?

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2670 on: September 20, 2014, 07:06:18 PM »
Alright, everyone. Let's take a break from these CRAZY long 'math' posts (seriously, my head is starting to hurt lol) and watch a video about what it would be like to have the Power Rangers in Paragon:

http://youtu.be/RqKkGYH4lPY


I don't think anything has ever made me root for the bad guys more. :)
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2671 on: September 20, 2014, 07:13:45 PM »
...Wait, how did he get a 1586 hit at the 0:57ish mark?

Probably a kin/sonic defender in there.  Thats a very easy number to see with such a character in a team.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2672 on: September 20, 2014, 07:13:58 PM »
Please. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'. It is, in fact, impossible for the game to behave like that. At this point, the mechanics are well-documented, and so thoroughly tested as to be pretty much zero on the 'mystery' scale.

The easiest way to explain this concept is to simply remember that really cool car you wanted. You know, the one you couldn't quite afford?
Remember how about the time you started wanting that car you would see it everywhere when you went out. It seemed like the whole da** town was driving that car.... observational bias.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2673 on: September 20, 2014, 07:28:45 PM »
Please note: what you are talking about is your observations, not mechanics. Read up on 'observational bias' and 'selective memory'.

What Arcana is talking about is how the game actually operates.

(note my emphasis in the quote)

So your saying i'm lying or something? (*facepalms*)  I really wish I could say the crap that happened to me alot didn't but whatever man, I remember moments where I wasn't having issues where the same attack missed every time in combat even with that usual accuracy SO, even more-so when I was stuck on crappy DO's and still found it missing every time in the attack chain.

These are MY play experiences, NOT yours.  May have not happened to you but did happen to me.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2674 on: September 20, 2014, 07:38:44 PM »
^ Well, prove it then! Give Arcana your combat logs for analysis.  Otherwise, anecdotal evidence and observational bias.

LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2675 on: September 20, 2014, 07:46:15 PM »
^ Well, prove it then! Give Arcana your combat logs for analysis.  Otherwise, anecdotal evidence and observational bias.

Why the hell would I have combat logs from a machine from 4-5 years ago on a game that shut down?  HOLY FUCKING COW!  You guys really do think I'm a stinking lower then life evil liar who deserves to die then!?!?!?!

I WOULD if I had the fucking things, now i'm getting angry at everyone here for this.  This is unforgivable, this is like those days when that one kid lied to teachers who KNEW he was lying and STILL punished ME for it EVERY TIME.

You guys have the audacity to just call me a liar over a thing like this when the game is shut down so I have no way to fucking prove things like that happen!?  I would love to have this game bakc now purely so I could.  I'll never forget this.  Nore will I get over it unless you guys apologize RIGHT NOW for causing me to get post traumatic memories all over again.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

MWRuger

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2676 on: September 20, 2014, 07:56:03 PM »
Why the hell would I have combat logs from a machine from 4-5 years ago on a game that shut down?  HOLY pancaking COW!  You guys really do think I'm a stinking lower then life evil liar who deserves to die then!?!?!?!

I WOULD if I had the pancaking things, now i'm getting angry at everyone here for this.  This is unforgivable, this is like those days when that one kid lied to teachers who KNEW he was lying and STILL punished ME for it EVERY TIME.

You guys have the audacity to just call me a liar over a thing like this when the game is shut down so I have no way to pancaking prove things like that happen!?  I would love to have this game bakc now purely so I could.  I'll never forget this.  Nore will I get over it unless you guys apologize RIGHT NOW for causing me to get post traumatic memories all over again.

No one is calling you a liar. They are saying that your memory is faulty in regards to what you believe happened whether it did or not. The fact is you don't have the data to prove what you experienced. They have data that shows what you claim can't happen. From my point of view your case is weaker. Eyewitness testimony is pretty unreliable unless it has been witnessed by multiple party's and even then it can be whole wrong.

You are sure you are right, but have no proof. They are sure they are right and have proof. Be positive and say that when the game comes back you will secure the proof that you are right and I am certain that they will all apologize. If you are wrong then you can apologize.

Seriously, arguing with math is a bad idea unless you have maths on your side and right now you don't.
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Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2677 on: September 20, 2014, 08:01:09 PM »
Why the hell would I have combat logs from a machine from 4-5 years ago on a game that shut down?  HOLY pancaking COW!  You guys really do think I'm a stinking lower then life evil liar who deserves to die then!?!?!?!

I WOULD if I had the pancaking things, now i'm getting angry at everyone here for this.  This is unforgivable, this is like those days when that one kid lied to teachers who KNEW he was lying and STILL punished ME for it EVERY TIME.

You guys have the audacity to just call me a liar over a thing like this when the game is shut down so I have no way to pancaking prove things like that happen!?  I would love to have this game bakc now purely so I could.  I'll never forget this.  Nore will I get over it unless you guys apologize RIGHT NOW for causing me to get post traumatic memories all over again.

I don't think anyone's calling you a liar. I know I'm not. As a matter of fact, I believe I started this whole thing when I brought up my observation about Twilight Grasp.

That being said, I do think that observational bias is the easiest solution for these kinds of observations. Now observational bias cannot be proved any more than any bug in the code simply because there is no code to look through.

There could only be a couple of people on this forum who might have accessed the game engine directly and seen the code (and I don't even know this). Everyone else is really just spouting an opinion, Including those whose opinion is Arcana and Codewalker are correct... well, that might be more of a theorem at this point. :)
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FemFury

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2678 on: September 20, 2014, 08:07:25 PM »
So your saying i'm lying or something? (*facepalms*)

It might be good to calm down.  No one called you a liar (that I saw, didn't read the whole thread)

If you want to turn what people are saying into a criticism, then the worst they are saying is "you are probably mistaken in how you are interpreting this."

And if you find "I think you are mistaken" as an out-of-bounds criticism, then note two things:
1)  you are implicitly making the exact same assertion. You are saying you think Arcanaville is mistaken in her knowledge of the way the computer code works.
2)  as far as discussions on the internet go, this is a pretty mild criticism.

When people bring up concepts like observer bias, confirmation bias, and the fallibility of human memory, keep in mind that the people that bring up these issues usually are the type of people who are perfectly aware the same criticisms apply to themselves.  Which is why they are also usually very good about wanting to use objective measures like data and scientific rigor to double-check things.

It's not a insult, it's an attempt to set the criteria which would resolve the argument in an objective manner.

When people say that these phenomena apply to human cognition, they are including themselves.
(Insert mandatory joke about Arcanaville really being a computer instead of a human here)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:20:56 PM by FemFury »

LaughingAlex

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2679 on: September 20, 2014, 08:08:28 PM »
No one is calling you a liar. They are saying that your memory is faulty in regards to what you believe happened whether it did or not. The fact is you don't have the data to prove what you experienced. They have data that shows what you claim can't happen. From my point of view your case is weaker. Eyewitness testimony is pretty unreliable unless it has been witnessed by multiple party's and even then it can be whole wrong.

You are sure you are right, but have no proof. They are sure they are right and have proof. Be positive and say that when the game comes back you will secure the proof that you are right and I am certain that they will all apologize. If you are wrong then you can apologize.

Seriously, arguing with math is a bad idea unless you have maths on your side and right now you don't.

Go figure I'll get it for sure, but heres a problem.

I have especially difficult issues with liars and even more-so when I start feeling people accuse me of such if i'm especially sure(and I know how good my memory is, everyone I know in real life can back me up there).  I was primarily bullied as a kid and the bullies were the teachers themselves.  They'd believe a kid they KNEW was lying even more-so when evidence was right there that he was lying.  The only teacher I ever forgave was the one that, at the very, very last day of grade school I had, was the one that finally decided enough was enough and punished the other bullies.  Even then though I felt it was especially late.

Thing was this was every day practically, I feared going to school and getting framed for something else I clearly didn't do.  I felt everyone in the school was an enemy.  My entire child hood and my teen years were utterly destroyed by it.  Now normally I can shrug off the thought but then when someone does, well, you know, the memories just shoot up.  I wish I never had em, I hate that i have them, I hate that I remember the personality I had at that time(everyone was an enemy as far as I was concerned).

It....sigh....sorry guys I just tend to lose it when, meh.  My memory in a way had become a curse for me, it kills my morale and my mood when I see things that trigger those memories(just the mere sight of a bully on TV is often enough let alone this :S).
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.