Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1749729 times)

Moonlighter

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2480 on: September 18, 2014, 05:56:29 AM »
Waves at Moonlighter good to see the old scrapper forum people posting

Is it bad that I miss the scrapper forums and Mid's almost as much as I miss City of Heroes? The scrapper forums were/are the gold standard I hold all other MMO forums to; there just isn't another official forum I've seen that is as good. Elitist Jerks comes close, but it isn't official, nor was it as friendly at least from my experience.

Moonlighter~

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2481 on: September 18, 2014, 05:59:31 AM »
My 3rd 50 was a Mind/Psi Dom, almost entirely solo'd. He was a painbringer and crowd destroyer.

TP into the middle of the crowd, drain psyche, unleash hell. I made regen scrappers look bad after that.

After the dominator buffs, I rolled a Mind/Psi specifically to see how dominators played after them.  It was bordering on ludicrous how powerful that combination was.  Mass confusion is a ridiculous power to give to players.  Drain Psyche is a massively powerful power for players that could leverage it properly.  And terrify is an amazing cone considering it terrifies the targets for longer than most fights actually last on top of actually doing damage.

Drauger9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2482 on: September 18, 2014, 06:17:10 AM »
......must resist the altaholicism....my first toon will be an elec/ice troller or maybe an elec/fire brute. ARGH!

I need help :( LOL.

I've also been pondering a grav/time troller...

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2483 on: September 18, 2014, 06:21:42 AM »
......must resist the altaholicism....my first toon will be an elec/ice troller or maybe an elec/fire brute. ARGH!

I need help :( LOL.

I've also been pondering a grav/time troller...

Suggest a dark/time controller instead.
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Techbot Alpha

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2484 on: September 18, 2014, 06:22:15 AM »
Is it bad that I miss the scrapper forums and Mid's almost as much as I miss City of Heroes? The scrapper forums were/are the gold standard I hold all other MMO forums to; there just isn't another official forum I've seen that is as good.

Not bad at all. That sums up my findings exactly, really. Every other game forum, from general discussion to the RP sections, has invariably been filled with utter dross and elitist scum-bags. I think Skyrim/Elder Scrolls was the most mild, with TOR and WoW reaching levels of 'WTF' that I had prior been ignorant to the existence of.

I really, really miss the CoH forums and community... Well, with the odd exception of course, but such is life :P
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ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2485 on: September 18, 2014, 06:24:35 AM »
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.

I had fun with a fire/ice blaster..ice slick right around a corner was fun. My first defender was rad/rad. I ran with a steady team but one particular room i dropped rad infection on a rikti in the middle, every rikti in the room turned and blasted me. our tank was stunned at how fast I died.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2486 on: September 18, 2014, 06:38:14 AM »
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.

I actually liked my Grav/Time controller myself.

Drauger9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2487 on: September 18, 2014, 06:38:38 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Arcana on Yesterday at 07:28:44 pm

And that's when I realized that all this power the devs were dumb enough to give us was wasted on just killing things faster.  What it could do was allow us to play City of Heroes like no other players would ever be allowed to play anything, and get away with it.  Leeroy Jenkins wiped his team with him.  But before that ever happened, CoH players were pulling stunts far stupider, and often surviving to pull even stupider stunts next (or at least, not killing everyone else around them).




On Pinnacle this practice was known as, "Hold my beer and watch this!".

On Infinity it was a custome that when you first dinged 50 you soloed the next mob. :) (if you was in a group of course). Hmm... think I'll bring that back and make a keybind that says "Go forth and die" while pointing at the mob. :P


Quote
Suggest a dark/time controller instead.

I thought about that too but I thought grav/time would look cool together for some reason.. Honestly I'll probably do both before it's all said and done. When I was playing my favorite AT was Master Minds and second was Controllers. I was trying to make one of every combination for each AT (except Nin/trick arrow oh god, I just couldn't make it threw the low levels lol). I got most of the MMs done and quite a few trollers done. So I guess if City of Heroes ever opens it's door to us again. I'll start over again, the hard part is deciding which one first. LOL!

I know the first MM I'm going to make is going to be a bots/trap for farming. The first brute will probably be either elec/fire or claws/fire for farming ( did ss/fire for so long I want something different.).

All the other ATs, I'll probably get to eventually LOL!.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:44:06 AM by Drauger9 »

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2488 on: September 18, 2014, 06:54:10 AM »
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it.  I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible.  He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play.  There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.

Never underestimate player incompetence! :p

Drauger9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2489 on: September 18, 2014, 06:56:46 AM »
Quote
I actually liked my Grav/Time controller myself

What was your favorite part about that combo?

I was really considering it just because I thought they'd mesh well with each other. I can hardly remember what most of the gravity powers where. Except for the one that threw things at people of course. :P

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2490 on: September 18, 2014, 07:09:27 AM »
What was your favorite part about that combo?

I was really considering it just because I thought they'd mesh well with each other. I can hardly remember what most of the gravity powers where. Except for the one that threw things at people of course. :P

Wormhole was fun :)  LGTF mission 4, wormholed the Rikti into the Hamidon and sat back and watched the fun.
In fearful COH-less days
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With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2491 on: September 18, 2014, 07:10:58 AM »
On Infinity it was a custome that when you first dinged 50 you soloed the next mob. :) (if you was in a group of course). Hmm... think I'll bring that back and make a keybind that says "Go forth and die" while pointing at the mob. :P


I thought about that too but I thought grav/time would look cool together for some reason.. Honestly I'll probably do both before it's all said and done. When I was playing my favorite AT was Master Minds and second was Controllers. I was trying to make one of every combination for each AT (except Nin/trick arrow oh god, I just couldn't make it threw the low levels lol). I got most of the MMs done and quite a few trollers done. So I guess if City of Heroes ever opens it's door to us again. I'll start over again, the hard part is deciding which one first. LOL!

I know the first MM I'm going to make is going to be a bots/trap for farming. The first brute will probably be either elec/fire or claws/fire for farming ( did ss/fire for so long I want something different.).

All the other ATs, I'll probably get to eventually LOL!.

elec fire should be good, as to claws I can't remember how much weapon redraw there was between attacks, same with fire/fire.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Drauger9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2492 on: September 18, 2014, 07:14:49 AM »
Quote
elec fire should be good, as to claws I can't remember how much weapon redraw there was between attacks, same with fire/fire

I had a claws/fire, I liked it because I listen to music while I play and sometimes it looked like he was dancing to the music.

Quote
Wormhole was fun :)  LGTF mission 4, wormholed the Rikti into the Hamidon and sat back and watched the fun.

That does sound like fun, I'll have to remember that. :)

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2493 on: September 18, 2014, 08:22:42 AM »
What was your favorite part about that combo?

I was really considering it just because I thought they'd mesh well with each other. I can hardly remember what most of the gravity powers where. Except for the one that threw things at people of course. :P

Funny that.  For me it wasn't a pure power thing, it was more of an experience thing.  The sets seemed to visually mesh well for one thing.  The combo had a very "controlly" feel to it with the additional soft control of Time.  Propel was a fun power. 

On the effectiveness score, I will say keeping distortion field around basically permanently did offer a containment bonus, albeit a random one.  In fact, "find the held guy and propel him" was one of the fun things about the combo.

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2494 on: September 18, 2014, 08:28:58 AM »
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it.  I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible.  He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play.  There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.

The only way I can see that being true is that his kill rate as a tanker was far enough below his kill rate as a scrapper that he couldn't defeat enemies fast enough to prevent his health dropping faster than it would on his scrapper.

Just to make some numbers up: if on a tanker you are 20% more resistant to damage than on a scrapper, and kill foes at 80% of the speed, you incoming damage is going to be 3% higher on the tanker, over time.

Which would mean that the tanker would see bigger swings on the health bar per fight than the scrapper did, leading to the perception that the tanker was "squishier".

I leave it to Arcana to compare scrapper and tanker (SO slotted) vs 10 foes with reasonable DPS incoming and outgoing to find out which one ends the fight on a smaller percentage of health. (Because I'm pretty sure I'd screw up the maths.)
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Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2495 on: September 18, 2014, 08:45:04 AM »
The only way I can see that being true is that his kill rate as a tanker was far enough below his kill rate as a scrapper that he couldn't defeat enemies fast enough to prevent his health dropping faster than it would on his scrapper.

Just to make some numbers up: if on a tanker you are 20% more resistant to damage than on a scrapper, and kill foes at 80% of the speed, you incoming damage is going to be 3% higher on the tanker, over time.

Hypothetically possible on paper, not possible in a practical sense with Invuln if you take Invincibility in both cases.

This reminds me, one of the things players (people in general, really) were not good at was intuitively extrapolating performance, because changes that are quantitatively easy to extrapolate could have qualitative differences not easy to extrapolate.  One analysis I did involved looking at sets like Willpower and Invulnerability that had scaling mitigation.  You might think, because the numbers were basically the same, that Willpower scaled the same for Tankers as Scrappers, with the obvious difference that Tankers had higher health.  And in a numerical sense, it did.  But in a really important qualitative sense, the set scaled differently for Tankers and Scrappers.  If you analyzed average critter damage as a function of archetype health and factored in Willpower's non-regenerative mitigation, an interesting fact emerged.  The amount of extra regen you got for each target you added around a Scrapper was, under most normal circumstances, less than the damage that critter would deal.  But for tankers, the reverse was true: the regen provided was slightly higher than the damage each critter would do.  That means if you were a Willpower tanker, herding made you *more* survivable.  If you were a Scrapper, herding made you *less* survivable, unless you had enough invention slotting to increase your overall mitigation high enough.  Which if you think about it, is kind of what you would want to happen if you could make it happen as a designer.   Purely accidental in the case of Willpower, mind you.

Invuln, and invincibility in particular, scaled differently.  Under the same analysis conditions, on Tankers each target you added reduced survivability, to a point.  Around six or seven targets, it leveled off.  Meaning, as you herded up more minions around you, you'd see more and more incoming damage, up to about six.  After that, herding more had no effect: the defensive increase roughly matched the additional incoming damage, so you could tank ten about as well as six, at least approximately.

I always found that to be interesting.  Nobody else seemed to, but that's ok.

Drauger9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2496 on: September 18, 2014, 08:53:25 AM »
Quote
The sets seemed to visually mesh well for one thing.

Yep, that's what's gotten me wanting to make one, I just think the powerset combo would mesh well with one another. :)

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2497 on: September 18, 2014, 09:03:56 AM »
Arcana, I could read about your analyses for hours, and never get bored.

Insightful, thoughtful, and considered, every single one.

And I find that analysis between Invuln and Willpower to be very interesting. I can't help but consider that a very human expectation is that if herding up to 6 foes got progressively harder, any reasonable person would expect to see 7 or 8 to likewise be progressively harder, and 9 or 10 harder still. If someone was at the ragged edge against 7 foes, I expect they would rebel against the idea of facing 10.

Perception bias is a truly fascinating thing.
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Thunder Glove

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2498 on: September 18, 2014, 09:13:01 AM »
Put simply, City of Heroes allowed players to have so much more power compared to most MMOs that players could afford to do weird things that were just fun, without having to worry about being killed by the game if they did not play absolutely perfectly.  A bad day in City of Heroes was often better than a good day in other MMOs that emphasized much more difficult combat with much more restrictions on the abilities of the players.
I'm a little late, but this.  I miss playing an MMO that, at the endgame, felt similar to console RPGs at endgame, where my character was an unstoppable juggernaut (or the unstoppable Juggernaut).  The main game I'm playing now doesn't feel that way at all.  I always feel like I'm on the verge of dying, even though I'm 93% of the way to the level cap - so, the equivalent of a level 46 CoH character - and wearing the best gear I can get for my level.

Actually, that's one of the things that surprised me most about CoH when I first started to play.  When I tried my first Brute, I didn't know what to expect.  I didn't realize how survivable they were, since in every other MMO the difference in defense between a melee class and a mage class was usually fairly small, but the difference going from a Blaster to a Brute, even at low levels, was insane.

Technically, I went from Blaster to Mastermind to Brute, but that feeling was definitely there.  When I first started playing the Brute (Elec/Invuln, my forum namesake), I felt exposed due to not having any pets to keep enemy focus off of me, but then I soon realized I didn't need them, because most things just slid off his back.  The Stone/Stone Tanker I made after that was even more durable (though slower to kill things and quicker to run out of Endurance, and it took me a while to get into the right mindset to play him).

And then, later on, getting to play with Power Pools and Epic Pools and Set bonuses and later even Incarnate powers to be even more survivable.... there's still nothing like it in the MMO world.  I miss that.  I seriously miss that.

Rejolt

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #2499 on: September 18, 2014, 10:49:21 AM »
For any archetype position, you can always find at least one person that earnestly believed it.  I knew someone that believed his Invuln tanker was more squishy than his Invuln scrapper, even though that was literally mathematically impossible.  He was one of those players that believed the numbers did not necessarily represent actual game play.  There's exactly zero chance that was due to anything other than an extremely weird perception, but nothing I said ever dislodged him from it.

I've found players have an idea of a hero or super powered being they want to make. Only a few powers or powersets meet the theme and if it/they don't play to their imagination or standards you get generalized comments about the abilities of the entire AT.
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