And the mask comes off.

[Scendera]

I'm certainly willing, if I can be remotely useful to you.

[downix]

Thanks for the response. 
 
This last comment makes me excited. One of the best aspects I've found in The Secret World is the ability built in to the game to add mods by players that tweak the game itself in valuable ways. 
 
Will CoT be trying to allow the same sort of modding?  It is AWESOME to be able to make your UI, etc. customizable.  The ability to create autosorting of loot, autoselling at vendors, etc. is such great QoL material, and outsourcing it to players is brilliant. I'd be STOKED if I found out that CoT, at least, was planning on that being at least a possibility. 

 

Some limited modding is within scope. Won't be able to make walls go transparent or highlight other PC's on a PvP map, but things like UI mods (which a voice acting module would be, if you think on it) are at least on the table for discussion.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

(I cannot speak for APR) I used worst-case scenario costs, which is how I baseline most budgeting work.

Worst case scenario is the best way to budget. It's how I prefer to do everything.
and I can speak for APR (Surprising, no?). I think I've mentioned before. It's something I might consider in the future, but I'm not worrying about it for now.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Now, what has been ignored in all of these discussions is that both CoT and APR are running on the Unreal Engine. It is easy to conceive of someone adding a semi-official "Voice Actor" module, using fan made vocal talent, which could be used in either game.
In other words, if you want voice acting, you guys have the power to make it happen.

Thanks for the response. 
This last comment makes me excited. One of the best aspects I've found in The Secret World is the ability built in to the game to add mods by players that tweak the user experience in valuable ways. 
Will CoT be trying to allow the same sort of modding?  It is AWESOME to be able to make your UI, etc. customizable.  The ability to create autosorting of loot, autoselling at vendors, etc. is such great QoL material, and outsourcing it to players is brilliant. I'd be STOKED if I found out that CoT, at least, was planning on that being at least a possibility. 

Hrm. Nate has a good point, one I hadn't even thought of. What basically made Unreal what it is today was it's modability.
Mods for APR...I'm going to have to give the subject a long, in depth think. There are obviously things you don't want players to be able to do in an MMO, and other restrictions based on the nature of the game... But some things that would be awesome.

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Expect no definitive answer on this subject for awhile.

[Ankhammon]

Actually there was a PvP Match where the entire 8 man team changed their names to have different variations of IIIIIIIIII. That was interesting to see people call out targets.

I think I remember that. They did it for targeting purposes and it worked pretty well.

[silvers1]

Hrm. Nate has a good point, one I hadn't even thought of. What basically made Unreal what it is today was it's modability.
Mods for APR...I'm going to have to give the subject a long, in depth think. There are obviously things you don't want players to be able to do in an MMO, and other restrictions based on the nature of the game... But some things that would be awesome.

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Expect no definitive answer on this subject for awhile.

While I wouldn't mind seeing mods that allow changes to the look and feel of the UI, what I don't want to see are any DPS meters or other tools that could be used to denigrate or harass other players.  I had enough of that crap in WoW.

[LaughingAlex]

While I wouldn't mind seeing mods that allow changes to the look and feel of the UI, what I don't want to see are any DPS meters or other tools that could be used to denigrate or harass other players.  I had enough of that crap in WoW.

Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues.  I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.  Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage.  I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.

[BadWolf]

We have 3 Inaris in my SG in CO....only one is a white fox, go fig.

That is so weird! My daughter's name is Inari, and back when the game was still live she loved to play with the character creator. So I have tons of characters (I had slots to spare) named things like "Inari-Chan", and "Fox Girl", and similar names that appealed to a six-year-old. It's kind of funny to think of people using it as an actual character name.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues.  I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.  Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage.  I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.

That...sounds...AMAZ---- Horrible, Awful, just bad...
Worst of all, it sounds not-fun...

[Shadowe]

Agreed on restricting what others can view. Your own DPS? Fine. Anyone else's? No thanks. If I want to slot 1 damage, 3 accuracy, 2 recharge in all my damage powers as a scrapper, that's nobody's business but mine, as long as everyone's having fun.

[dwturducken]

I haven't spoken to either teams, So this is pure speculation.
There's also the concern that agreeing to something like that forfeits a certain level of control. You can't simply have the Rikti come in and blow up the planet, it would conflict with what's going on in the I.P. in other places.
Basically, the only way to have no real concerns is to make your story take place in an Alternate time-line/universe/dimension that has very little story ties to CoH. At that point, why even bother calling it a CoH successor?

I don't think anyone ever had the notion of some large, sweeping MMO version of the MCU, where Kevin Feige and Joss Whedon must be consulted on all major plot developments. (Pretty sure no one here would mind a little input from Joss Whedon, though.) Each of the projects had its own lore in development, but it may have been a collective (within each group) creative decision not to try to make what they had come up with mesh with the established more of CoH.

Also, when doesn't one comic book or other run a multi-issue story line where the fate of the world hangs in the balance, only for Jubilee (or Aquaman, or whoever the lamest character in said comic franchise is) to come up with some zero hour anal extraction that saves the day? The Rikti are here to destroy the world? Good thing they only landed in Paragon City! (Really! Magneto would have a much easier time if he started with, say, Dubuque, Iowa...)

I do have a question for you, though, Irish_Girl: Are you having to build the power mechanics from scratch, or is there a system for that built into the engine? (I probably could watch a few hours of tutorial videos, but I'm not there, yet.)

[JanessaVR]

Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues.  I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.  Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage.  I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.

Yikes.  Were you, perchance, on Freedom server?

[opprime2828]

Some limited modding is within scope. Won't be able to make walls go transparent or highlight other PC's on a PvP map, but things like UI mods (which a voice acting module would be, if you think on it) are at least on the table for discussion.

That's very cool.  Have you seen the kind of modding TSW allows, and how it's done?  If not, check it out (I can help if needed) and if so, is that akin to what you're talking about? You can't mod things that affect actual gameplay but can mod just about anything that deals with UI, interactions with NPCs, etc.  It's really fascinating. 
 
Here's a link to a page where you can see some of the modding it allows. 
 
http://www.curse.com/tsw-mods/tsw

[Pherdnut]

I hate to bow back into this discussion, but again, that seems a bit odd. After all, what do you think your contacts at Bioware, Cryptic, or Trion would have told you about the costs of implementing an entire MMO?  Within the budget you're currently working? Of course not, since they're working with triple A titles and companies that likely use greatly inflated costs.
 
I'm fine if you don't decide to include Voice work.  Honestly. I think it's a strike against your game that will hurt you, if only slightly, and I GREATLY want your game to succeed, but if you all decide its fine, cool.
 
But I'm a little surprised at a)the numbers you giving not matching what I know from the industry first hand, and what others in here know as well, and even what the SAG union rates are, and b)that your mindset for this seems to be so opposed to the mindset of the entire rest of MWMs entire concept.
 
*shrug* 
 
Like I said, I meant no disrespect to you, and didn't even start this thread, but do feel that all of us should be able to voice our opinions/challenge ideas and decisions, etc. without feeling like we suddenly get shunned or treated as if we're a nuisance.  Sadly, that's exactly how I felt like I was treated in the end by some people in the discussion, when all I, Tony V, and others are trying to do is state our opinions and our knowledge.

I wasn't trying to shut anybody down either. I just don't think it's that crazy for an MMO's worth of dialogue to get that high. Although what you're thinking could easily be a 100th of something like Bioware levels of dialog and still be ambitious compared to what COH had before. Also, not knowing at least one of you was a pro, I didn't want people to get the idea that VO is any less challenging than on-camera or stage.

I don't think anybody would fault you guys for trying to demo something. I might even be able to help out with the UI plugin stuff depending on what route they take with that. I think the biggest challenge would be finding talent to suit the circumstances. VO is bread and butter for a lot of actors. It's what pays the bills between doing all the things that don't really. I've actually already poked around to see if anybody within my wife's circle of friends happened to be a huge COH fan. No dice : ( and there's no way in Hell I'd ask these guys to work for imaginary peanuts unless they really really loved the game or at least had something to show them that might excite them.

So try the Irish_Girl route. Just start doing stuff, then some more stuff, and then a crap-ton more stuff and see what comes of it when you start showing it to people. One inspired and very good character VO actor could do an awful lot.

[opprime2828]

Yeah I wouldn't want people demanding very specific requirements for team setups or leagues.  I was actually turned off enough as it was with the incarnate trials when the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial.  Let alone dps meters that give such jerk heads a reason to kick players based on not being specialized enough in damage.  I could only see it if something came; you'd only see fire blasters being taken, corruptors and defenders would be pidgin holed by these kinds of jerks into only buffing/debuffing, no, change that, probably only being kins with only speed boost and FS and same jerks demanding only healing from them due to some healing per second bar, I could go on.

I think the main thing about this is not so much the ability to see actual DPS, etc. it's a design decision by the devs that make certain scenarios almost require very specific team make ups. Thankfully, City of Heroes was so well balanced (and from what Arcana and others shared in this thread, accidentally so) that just about any team could tackle just about any scenario if they just worked together.
 
In short, even if we had meters above our heads broadcasting our stats directly to other players all the time, I don't see teams getting that picky unless there were some serious changes to the general gameplay and mission design.

[Taceus Jiwede]

I think the main thing about this is not so much the ability to see actual DPS, etc. it's a design decision by the devs that make certain scenarios almost require very specific team make ups. Thankfully, City of Heroes was so well balanced (and from what Arcana and others shared in this thread, accidentally so) that just about any team could tackle just about any scenario if they just worked together.
 
In short, even if we had meters above our heads broadcasting our stats directly to other players all the time, I don't see teams getting that picky unless there were some serious changes to the general gameplay and mission design.

Well put sire!  CoH wasn't so liberal with grouping because we didn't have DPS mods or charts at the end of instances.  It was because any character could be good, and it only takes a short time of playing it to see the game can be played any variety of ways.  It was the community and the mechanics of the game that made it this way, I don't see that changing because of a hypothetical mod.  People who want to play the games the way LaughingAlex mentioned will probably just play a different game.  As I and several of my friends who are experienced raiders in other MMO's and other stat counters like my self I met in CoH.  Always left that type of attitude at the door when logging in CoH.  CoH is about fun.  Other MMO's are about progress and feeding my addiction to stat counting.

When the occasional jerk-head demanded everyone be +3 for just about any incarnate trial

The only time I ever ran into this or asked for this personally was if it was a  Master Of iTrail.  And the +3 was more about just so you knew they had their incarnate powers and had probably experienced the trial a few times.

[LaughingAlex]

I think the main thing about this is not so much the ability to see actual DPS, etc. it's a design decision by the devs that make certain scenarios almost require very specific team make ups. Thankfully, City of Heroes was so well balanced (and from what Arcana and others shared in this thread, accidentally so) that just about any team could tackle just about any scenario if they just worked together.
 
In short, even if we had meters above our heads broadcasting our stats directly to other players all the time, I don't see teams getting that picky unless there were some serious changes to the general gameplay and mission design.

Yeah, the game itself was extremely balanced.  Honestly odds are only extreme SHFG guys would be forceful, but see to a normal shfg even a 2-3% increase over something else is enough to justify kicking others who don't use it.  It's the personality of the players.  Most CoX players were very smart and balanced individuals who didn't cave into that mentality.  Only a few here and there.  The other thing though is we'll likely have as many newer players as we do veterans, cause those who never got to try it out but wanted to since it shut down, will likely jump at the opportunity to try the game out.  They'll need our help to become productive members of the community who don't turn into scrubs/shfg's.

[Sinistar]

While I wouldn't mind seeing mods that allow changes to the look and feel of the UI, what I don't want to see are any DPS meters or other tools that could be used to denigrate or harass other players.  I had enough of that crap in WoW.

I agree, we don't need to see the DPS that someone else can do. Focus on your toons and have fun.

[blackjak]

I'd just like to add my take on VO's for COT as well, since I am one of the lucky individuals who would be recording, editing, mixing and mastering any VO for MWM. Here are 4 quick reasons not to do VO in COT:

1. VO is expensive for quality work. It's safe to say a norm of $100-$250/page of script (~200-300 words), recording studio time (pretty much as stated before ~$250/hr) and other more nominal costs. It is true that my time is free and that helps a ton, but for quality i would still need to rent space in a studio for the quality that is expected. We could go cheap and do the VO with volunteers in a less than commercial studio, but that would just be...well...no. Better a game with great sound effects and music than a game with great sound and music that was interrupted by Uncle Pete's uncomfortably stilted cheesiness. BTW, another factor in the cost; we have TONS of NPC's in the gates already with more to come. They would all need voices. Which leads us to:

2. VO can actually be limiting. We intend to do continual issues on a regular basis and that means more dialogue, of course. No bid deal. However, what if something changes? The actor who did your signature hero's voice is not for hire anymore, the old dialogue ages badly compared to the new ones, new story arcs makes an NPC's dialogue from before take a different light that would have been misrepresented in some phrasing, etc. These could be handled, but it would take time away from other content, such as new powerset sounds, which are more important in the grand scheme of things.

3. Last, but not least, the voice just doesn't match up with your idea of what the character sounds like. We have all had that annoying experience. RP is an integral part of this community and such a juxtaposition would ruin things for a lot of people.

4. CoX did not have VO. Why? I am of the opinion that they had some of the same reasons as we do, but I also think it adds to the general appeal of the genre of superheroes. They are bigger than life, but silent in their most pure form: the comicbook. We are making a superhero game, but in essence we are making a comicbook game. Every voice that is "heard" is uniquely yours, just as your character is unique.

So TL;DR: VO is expensive, time consuming, somewhat limiting and rarely ends up being perfect. As much as we would love to be able to do it, we would like to avoid all of the negatives that come with it.

[Minotaur]

On Liberty my sister ran an SG "The Power Of One"

Every member had a variation of "One" or "1" in their name.

Was always fun running down the street to see "Noone saved us!" "Someone is awesome" and "Anyone will save me!"

This reminds me of a couple of ex professional footballers in the UK, who bought two horses, and called them "Some horse" and "Another horse" then ran them in the same races to make the commentator sound like an idiot.