Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1749528 times)

Shard

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1780 on: September 10, 2014, 01:09:28 AM »
No access to the underlying code means those running Legacy COH would be UNABLE to make any changes whatsoever. It goes much farther than not being able to fix any bugs. No player

There was, at last I was aware, the possibility of some degree of regression corrections ( due to Windows patches, etc ) was not absolutely out, but I'm unsure if anyone has yet to do due diligence on if that is practically doable ( IE, can anyone actually still build the client from code, etc. )

account data (from the code) means nothing any of us had in-game will be there: no characters, no bases, no INF, no IOs, no Vet Rewards, nothing. Since the underlying code can't be accessed, there's no way to just give everybody everything (or anything). No access to financial data MAY mean no store; if so, costumes or powersets or other things available for purchase through that store MAY not be available at all, and we couldn't change that--no access to the code. Any special events (Halloween, Christmas, Rikti invasions, etc.) may not happen because even if it's just flipping a switch to turn it on, that switch is most probably located in the code that we won't have access to. I'd go on, but I think my point is made. Understand, I **WANT** to be wrong in this regard, but until someone with actual knowledge of the connections between image and code steps in to say otherwise, I don't think I am.

The account oriented stuff is accurate as of today.  The event things probably is again, something that will require due diligence.

If a City of Heroes IP-holding company is formed after NCSoft sells the IP outright, I think the Atlas Park Revival intends to license the IP. Further, I think Missing Worlds Media may loan some of their underlying code in Unreal Engine 4 to the APR folks. I think the Atlas Park Revival folks, who are currently trying to recreate Atlas Park in UE4, will then move towards recreating (with some improvements here and there) all of City of Heroes. This undertaking has come to be commonly known as City of Heroes 1.5. The APR folks will NOT be running Legacy CoH. Just like the CoH IP-holding company, Legacy CoH will be an entirely new company. When (not if; being optimistic here) CoH 1.5 is launched, THEN the APR folks (or whatever they'll be calling themselves by then) will start working on new content/issues/updates for CoH 1.5.

Who will be running the legacy server is yet to be determined.

CoH 1.5 has sometimes been referred to as CoH 2, but it really won't be. It'll be a continuation of the old game, with improvements and new content. There is probably never going to be a game that outright calls itself City of Heroes 2.

Also remains to be seen.

Missing Worlds Media - Lead Pain in the .. well everything.

JanessaVR

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1781 on: September 10, 2014, 01:14:12 AM »
chances are the cash shop just sent a "this is unlocked message" for slots/costume stuff etc. it was applied to character data (wild guess here) ww/bm was on the game, as were holiday events. they could switch on events without patching, most likely from the server console. they wont be able to add stuff, but they systems are already in the image. they should be able to run a batch turning all characters "on" for costume options etc.
Truthfully, this was rather along the lines I was thinking.  The in-game market is likely part of the code already, turning the seasonal events on and off ought to be hackable without that much trouble in the worst-case scenario (you'd think there must be some sort of control console tool for the game that would allow at least this much basic control capability), and Arcana has recently stated that she could write us a better cash shop market than the one we had in her sleep.

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1782 on: September 10, 2014, 01:22:16 AM »
I always suspected the store was just a plugin and not part of the game code. But honestly that was just an assumption on my part, I really don't know.


We're almost there!   ;D
We're almost there!  ;D

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JanessaVR

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1783 on: September 10, 2014, 01:25:52 AM »
I always suspected the store was just a plugin and not part of the game code. But honestly that was just an assumption on my part, I really don't know.
That was recently confirmed - the cash shop was not only a plug-in, it was managed by a 3rd-party company.  So we would just need a new plug-in - something the new owners would be very highly motivated to do.

Tubbius

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1784 on: September 10, 2014, 01:48:30 AM »
I want to see the game again.  When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is.  :(  Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.

JanessaVR

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1785 on: September 10, 2014, 01:57:57 AM »
I want to see the game again.  When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is.  :(  Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.
Just download a fresh copy of CoH i24 and then install Titan Icon.

opprime2828

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1786 on: September 10, 2014, 02:04:20 AM »
I want to see the game again.  When I installed Windows 7, I lost my City installation, so Icon is no longer an option as-is.  :(  Here's hoping everything works out reasonably soon and completely well.

 
I think you'll be happy if you click this link: 
 
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=9531.0
 
I had the same issue, losing the hard drive that had my CoH install as well as all of my Sentinel files, but at least this let me redowload and get Icon working again.

Good luck!  PM me if you run in to any problems. Maybe I can help.

Goddangit

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1787 on: September 10, 2014, 02:09:46 AM »
Quit sending out those negative vibs, man!  8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo

Negative waves, man...  :)

chasearcanum

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1788 on: September 10, 2014, 02:10:19 AM »
That was recently confirmed - the cash shop was not only a plug-in, it was managed by a 3rd-party company.  So we would just need a new plug-in - something the new owners would be very highly motivated to do.

Correct.  Not sure of the original vendor, but middleware agencies like that are a big part of current game development.  Why build your own in-game store when you can get a license at a fraction of the cost?  CoH was very much scratch-built at the start, but I know at least the marketplace was 3rd party licensed.

One obstacle-- different vendors have different API's.  We (well... they, but I'm a "we" in spirit) won't have access to the source code to alter the API's to a new vendor's system.  If we don't go with the original middleware vendor, we would likely be limited to making a "wrapper" that would exist between the marketplace and the game.  the wrapper would interact with the new vendor's apis and translate it to the old vendor's format that the CoH engine is expecting.  Depending on what values are expected and security measures are in place, this could be quite the enjoyable challenge.

A less likely risk: some vendors consider their API interfaces to be propretary, meaning they could object to us using them... even if we just want to do it via "wrapper" to get around the source code limitation.  This is unlikely to stall the project, but vendors can try to eke out fees that are less than the legal costs to challenge them.  this is becoming far too common in the industry, but we'd be 'small prizes' and may not be worth the effort.

It might just be that they run the game with the in game store just generating an error, then manage access to the game and resources through a more manual interface-- run a "donation paypal" account with various rewards that you set through a custom-made interface to the existing db.  More cumbersome, but depending on the middleware interfacing issues and costs, may be more do-able (and similar to what some emulator communities are doing).

chasearcanum

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1789 on: September 10, 2014, 02:13:37 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEj3LA2vSo

Negative waves, man...  :)

+450 points for bringing Kelly's Heroes into the conversation.

pinballdave

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1790 on: September 10, 2014, 02:17:31 AM »

You can continue to be the Debbie Downer if you choose. It's just a matter of positive outlook for me, by comparison to where we were last year, or even before this project became public. . .


We really are "Almost There"   ;D 


Edit: My gut feeling is we will be playing the legacy I23 image around Halloweenish. No, I have nothing concrete at all to base that on, but I don't think it is unrealistic either. . .

I think your gut needs more beer. We are not guaranteed that there will be a deal for legacy CoH by October, 2014. The 'online store' plug in to service the micro-transactions has to be adapated from NCSoft sources or rewritten and tested as a plug-in to the I-23 system. If that took 3 months, I would be happy. The I-23 zombie CoH needs some kind of staff to maintain the game and answer player service tickets. This staffing will take time. Plus, putting the binary copy from NCSoft on physical servers and getting the game rolling will take time. The shortest interval will be the dissemination of the revival of an active zombie game through the various social media to alert veteran CoH players it's time to play.

Having said all that... we really are "Almost There" :)

Sinistar

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1791 on: September 10, 2014, 02:18:59 AM »
I think your gut needs more beer. We are not guaranteed that there will be a deal for legacy CoH by October, 2014. The 'online store' plug in to service the micro-transactions has to be adapated from NCSoft sources or rewritten and tested as a plug-in to the I-23 system. If that took 3 months, I would be happy. The I-23 zombie CoH needs some kind of staff to maintain the game and answer player service tickets. This staffing will take time. Plus, putting the binary copy from NCSoft on physical servers and getting the game rolling will take time. The shortest interval will be the dissemination of the revival of an active zombie game through the various social media to alert veteran CoH players it's time to play.

Having said all that... we really are "Almost There" :)

Plus will players have to download a new launcher and any revised I23 COH files?  I never uninstalled mine as I like to use ICON at times, but that doesn't mean that it will be what I need to play again.
In fearful COH-less days
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When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
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Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1792 on: September 10, 2014, 02:37:42 AM »
More Beer it is!



We're almost there!    ;D
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1793 on: September 10, 2014, 03:02:22 AM »
Hey guys!
So, I'm at my new place. Everything's still a little chaotic, but I've at least got my computer hooked up.
I thought I'd take a break and catch up on what I missed. Which...Seems to have been a lot!


-puts on hard hat- Agge, please don't hit me for the storm of replies!
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1794 on: September 10, 2014, 03:03:11 AM »
More like:

 ;)

I wondered how many other players remembered this, lol. I was trying to not so subtly reference it ;P
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Pherdnut

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1795 on: September 10, 2014, 03:09:22 AM »
There was, at last I was aware, the possibility of some degree of regression corrections ( due to Windows patches, etc ) was not absolutely out, but I'm unsure if anyone has yet to do due diligence on if that is practically doable ( IE, can anyone actually still build the client from code, etc. )

It actually sounds like new content isn't completely impossible, just a kludge-ridden pain in the ass. It's a pity it wasn't a Java codebase. Then it would be like 30% code and 70% XML to generate more code. Actually no, wait a minute. That would suck major butt.

Eoraptor

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1796 on: September 10, 2014, 03:10:30 AM »

 
I think you'll be happy if you click this link: 
 
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=9531.0
 
I had the same issue, losing the hard drive that had my CoH install as well as all of my Sentinel files, but at least this let me redowload and get Icon working again.

Good luck!  PM me if you run in to any problems. Maybe I can help.
yup, tequila had me up and runing quickly once it downloaded everything ( that itself took a few tries, but nothing insurmountable) you won't have your old toon data, sadly, but you'll be able to tour the ghost town at least
"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story, while others can read the back of a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe!"
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1797 on: September 10, 2014, 03:10:39 AM »
Lots of reasons:  Maybe their lore, stories and quest lines are too far along (or will be by the time the CoX IP ever really gets purchased, if it ever does) for them to begin anew.  Or maybe they will have to (or worry that later they will have to) pay for the rights to license the CoX IP.  They may also worry that whomever controls the IP may be able to shut them down later.

And as none of us know even the details of what is on the table now never mind if it will go through or not (or what form it will be in if it ever does go through), we really can't blame them one bit.  I don't.

I haven't spoken to either teams, So this is pure speculation.
There's also the concern that agreeing to something like that forfeits a certain level of control. You can't simply have the Rikti come in and blow up the planet, it would conflict with what's going on in the I.P. in other places.
Basically, the only way to have no real concerns is to make your story take place in an Alternate time-line/universe/dimension that has very little story ties to CoH. At that point, why even bother calling it a CoH successor?
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1798 on: September 10, 2014, 03:21:06 AM »
Doesn't it make sense that the APR/1.5 team should also be the ones to run the legacy i23 servers? Monthly sub costs will help cover the 1.5 development costs as well as keep the i23 servers running. It would also mean that the APR/1.5 devs will have access to the database so that eventually they can figure out how to make a script/tool that ports the i23 users over to APR/1.5 once its ready.

Uh. It's honestly not something I'd given any direct thought, nor have I bothered to talk with Nate about it at all.
Either way would prolly go the same...
Revival/Other group forms a special team of people to handle the running of the server. That team runs said server.

A portion of the income being diverted to APR... I certainly wouldn't complain. It would open some doors that are currently closed to me at the moment.
Something like that couldn't be begun to think about until a lot of other things were worked out first. (What do players have to pay for, how much are they paying, what are the maint. costs, how much are we paying staff, is there Engine license fees...Etc.)

While us being the ones running it would indeed make things like working on a system to move characters from Legacy to i23 easier (As well as being able to have a dedicated research environment, where we can double check content and mess with things without worry of effecting the Live environment.), I would hope who ever is running Legacy would be willing to work closely with us when needed. (As well as being able to have a dedicated research environment, where we can double check content and mess with things without worry of effecting the Live environment.)
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1799 on: September 10, 2014, 03:22:59 AM »
Aye, I would anticipate the number of servers being halved, and the ones that do return would the names of the servers that tended to bigger populations such as Freedom and Virtue. 

There's no reason that the server list has to be halved. Or even one less. Aside from HDD space, it wouldn't make much difference.
All of the Live servers were running on one computer anyways. Then I believe the Auth server it's own machine, as well as Beta.
"Let's get dangerous..."
Lead Developer and Master of Mischief - Revival Project.
Revival website: APR.Pc-Logix.com