And the mask comes off.

[HEATSTROKE]

First off - NCSoft is a company.. their not going to license anything to someone without getting something in return.  This means either an outlay of money on the front end, or a monthly residual from subscriptions.  I'm curious where the new companies involved are coming up with this capital, or where they plan to come up with it when the negotiation is close to being finalized?

Of course they arent and I dont think anyone here is expecting them to do so. However from one of Ironwolfs earlier conversations apparently a price has already been discussed and the team called the price "doable". The question is what exactly does that price buy? But I dont think anyone is expecting some altruism on the part of NC Soft because it is a business..

Secondly - as much as I want to be happy about this news.. and oh believe me I soooo want to be happy about it.. the reality is, as much as we love and trust MWM and APR.. there shouldn't be a single one of us here who trusts ANYTHING coming from NCSoft.  The mere fact that they have a title sitting on the digital shelf doing nothing for their bottom line yet refuse to sell the whole sheebang without an immense amount of legalese, is just mind blowing.  Yes, yes.. I know the Korean corporate culture thing.. ya ya yadda.  Reality is, the deal is starting to sound like some of the small snippets that NCSoft was attaching to anyone who wanted to buy the IP outright before closing.  To me, that's a laundry list of red flags.

There are several things involved. First off there is this consistent mindset that NC Soft is a personality of singular consciousness that has some type of vendetta against the CoH community. They shut the game down because it was a business.. and YES Business have a whole lot of legalese.. Its not like your buying a loaf of bread from your grocery store. As someone who has been working over a business deal in his own personal life for over a year now and its STILL in the early stages.. it takes time.. and YES there are a lot of legal details to hash out..  and that has NOTHING to do with Korean culture.. thats business culture..

Thirdly - the Hail Mary Team.. you guys have done a great job even getting NCSoft to open it's doors, and your work is commendable to an extreme level that no text on a board could adequately convey.  That being said.. I hope with all I am that you all continue to fight the good fight, and keep the players in mind that have supported you in many ways.  Even guys like me who generally stay away from message boards because.. well.. quite obviously.. what I have to say people generally don't want to hear

Well Said !!!

Lastly.. and this is where I think I have the biggest problem here with all of this:


Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX.  That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars.  This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share.  This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved.  We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years.  And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again.  I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal.  In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof.  Now, it's already been posted that Valiance want's no part of this arrangement, and that's on them frankly.  They've got their little red ball and they can run off with it and do their own thing, that's their right.  But really.. what's the point of taking the player base from CoX (say it was 100K players) and splitting it all up over 2 or 3 different successor games?  Especially if 2 of those games are running on the same engine already?  I think the arguments of the past when CoX was ripped away from us by the "evil monsters of digimon land" need to get laid to rest, and the two of you at least need to get onboard and start pooling resources and talent.. and get this ball rolling down the hill so fast that even superspeed can't keep up!

Disagree for one reason.. you are basing the player base on one game that never got support. never got advertising... the Super Hero culture has EXPLODED in the last several years since the shutdown and its not set to slow down any time soon..

We really have no idea how huge the playerbase potentially is..

[Surelle]

I agree with Heatstroke on the "superhero explosion," here in NA anyway.  Not only is every movie and sequel a runaway hit (too many to list here), but other superhero games like Marvel Superheroes Online have launched recently and are going like gangbusters, besides CO and DCUO still being around (and DCUO at least is still getting a good amount of major updates).

There's room for CoX i23, there's room for a CoX 2 or 1.5 (a.k.a. APR), and there will be room for CoT by the time it ever launches too.  Look how many pointy-eared fantasy MMOs there are out there!  And you still see new ones coming every day!  I find it hard to believe those players aren't the very same moviegoers watching all the new superhero movies too.  Not to mention that even superhero movie-goers who have never played the games would likely want to try new superhero games. 

There's a market there, but like any company selling something, you have to actively target and advertise to your market.  You have to find them, and let them know you're there, and then nudge them into coming over to try your product.  Incentive deals, ads, it's been done so often because it works, and that's for every business, not just the ones in the gaming industry.

[Illusionss]

Some have said that If CoH i23 will be shut down after Windows 9 happens, that it might feel painful, like when the game was shut down before, but I think it would be a fantastic transition.

1. I don't understand this idea that the day Windows 9 is released, it will drop a nuclear warhead on CoX from which the game will never recover. What? I don't recall any other Windows release that bothered us who were playing this game, why is 9 some unthinkable Armageddon/DOOM?

2. Do YOU run out and buy the new Windows the day it is released, and install it right away? I sure don't. In fact, I don't bother upgrading until.... I buy a new computer. I would be more than willing to maintain two PCs JUST to run this game, were that necessary.

But we don't yet know that it will be.

3. Windows 9 will be here looooooooooooooooooong before CoT/CoX2. Not much of a transition, if you ask me.

[tripthicket]

I know it would be hella (and prohibitively) expensive, but can you just imagine settling into your seat for Avengers II, Thor III, Captain America III, etc., and seeing an advertisement for City of Titans/Heroes and Villains/Valiance Online/City of Heroes 1.5 stuck amongst the previews? I think, just to be sure, I'd better wear some Depends when I go to the theater for the next few years...

[Illusionss]

Some things that will have to be covered include: What servers? Who's admining them? Syncing all the systems (database, engine, clients). Providing security for the servers. Testing the servers. Testing the clients. Testing the engine. Web site? In-game store setup. Advertising the game is coming back. Calculating how many clients the server can support and how many could be expected. Calculating costs for running the game. Calculating cost for subscription. What to do with vet rewards and the like. Auditing the game (should have come earlier in this list). Beginning to look into the needs of the CoH 1.5 group. I'm guessing lawyers will need to be involved somehow. Initial cost outlay. 

We know what servers now, and who will be running them.

Testing the servers etc, ok I'll give you that one.

In-game store setup is, unless I greatly miss my guess, a thing that could be done AFTER game launch. We did without a cash shop for what, at least 5 years? It could wait for a few months post-launch.

Costs for running the game should pretty much be an already known quantity.

Vet rewards.... will have to be re-earned. Just wait and see. I would bet on it. If you don't have your old account, how could they possibly verify this? Anyone and everyone could claim to have been there at original launch.

The needs of the CoX 1.5 group are an issue that can be addressed way after the reopening of CoX: IMO, the reopening should be paramount over all.

[Illusionss]

I know it would be hella (and prohibitively) expensive, but can you just imagine settling into your seat for Avengers II, Thor III, Captain America III, etc., and seeing an advertisement for City of Titans/Heroes and Villains/Valiance Online/City of Heroes 1.5 stuck amongst the previews? I think, just to be sure, I'd better wear some Depends when I go to the theater for the next few years...

That would be cool, but an advertisement like that might well run into the millions of dollars I am thinking.

[RedWarlock]

I don't understand this idea that the day Windows 9 is released, it will drop a nuclear warhead on CoX from which the game will never recover... Windows 9 will be here looooooooooooooooooong before CoT/CoX2. Not much of a transition, if you ask me.

Downix opened this thread suggesting i23 might start to become incompatible with Windows 9 and that would be a time to start migrating to CoH 1.5... So it sounded like some kind of transition was envisioned at that point. Like I said, I think it's all positive and that even bringing people into play i23 for a short (or long) time could be a good way to engage the community in anticipation of CoT/CoX2...

[ukaserex]

Lastly.. and this is where I think I have the biggest problem here with all of this:

Your looking at having a series of superhero MMO's launch as "successor" to CoX.  That's awesomesauce.. total awesomesauce.. HOWEVER.. it also means that each of the companies are going to be competing for a rather small gaming market segment of player funded dollars.  This means longer times between updates and expansions, no matter the financial model you use, because your only getting a small segment of the market share.  This is going to eventually cause a lot of friction, and even downright hostility between the companies involved.  We've all seen it before, especially with the various movements of CoH over the early years.  And frankly, I know I don't want to see it again.  I would suggest putting your collective heads together, and at least a couple of you merging over, with the consent of a majority of your player base that's financially supported you obviously, and making a banner under which the teams, like true heroes, work together to achieve a common goal.  In this case.. producing the best game possible, and keeping as many of us "refugee's" under the same digital roof.  Now, it's already been posted that Valiance want's no part of this arrangement, and that's on them frankly.  They've got their little red ball and they can run off with it and do their own thing, that's their right.  But really.. what's the point of taking the player base from CoX (say it was 100K players) and splitting it all up over 2 or 3 different successor games?  Especially if 2 of those games are running on the same engine already?  I think the arguments of the past when CoX was ripped away from us by the "evil monsters of digimon land" need to get laid to rest, and the two of you at least need to get onboard and start pooling resources and talent.. and get this ball rolling down the hill so fast that even superspeed can't keep up!


And that ladies and gents.. is my 2 cents.  Or nickel.. heck.. let's call it a dime for inflation

No matter how it goes.. I know where my money's already gone and where I'll be playing.  I have no problems with that funding moving into a joint company that's going to run CoH-I23 and be the successor company with CoH1.5/CoH2.0.. long as I get my kickstarter bene's that is, and get to use shadowmaul on circle of thorns again at least

*flips on my little fly toggle and heads back to the top of the world in AP*

PseudoCool

Here's what I don't think you're understanding. While it's true that a portion of CoH's playerbase were and are incredibly loyal and played CoH exclusively, I don't think this is the case with the larger portion of CoH's playerbase.

Most people that can afford it will indeed play not just one game, but many different games. I backed CoT. Primarily because I wanted to get in on the ground floor of a game that I am fairly certain I'll enjoy, much the same way I liked CoH. Is that going to be the only game I play? If CoH issue 23 is online, I will have a tough time serving both of those "masters" in the figurative sense. But, that's just me. I know with 100% certainty that other players I met on CoH will play all of these games, if for no other reason than to change up the pace a little, as well as play SWToR, Rift, and whatever other games are out there that capture their interest. @lumberjack Jill, @hazygreys (not to be confused with his twin sister @hazygrays), @arbegla, @internaut, @PW, @Puros..so many other players played more than one game. Not sure how they found the time, but not everyone played 14 hours at a stretch like I did. (won't be playing like that again, I hope. Going to try and limit myself to 3 farming runs and 4 iTrials per weekend when I get to 50 with a couple of characters.)

I know times are tough for some of you (economically) but the economy does seem to be slowly picking up. I know I have more disposable income than I had two years ago.

[Wizzyboy296]

So thats mean, City of Heroes is returns? 

[Scendera]

besides CO and DCUO still being around (and DCUO at least is still getting a good amount of major updates).

The All Access changes are the best thing to ever happen to DCUO. There's a fairly large contingent of folks for who it was never quite "primary MMO" material, but who consider EQ or EQ2 their primary. Once DCUO became "free with all the goodies" to the folks who liked Everquest, the population jumped. Because dammit, sometimes there's nothing quite as satisfying as running a 6 ft tall tigress to punch something in the face with claws or call in an air strike made of hard light. 

[Cailyn Alaynn]

[Remaugen]

So thats mean, City of Heroes is returns? 

Maybe, yes that is the plan, but nothing is resolved yet.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

The needs of the CoX 1.5 group are an issue that can be addressed way after the reopening of CoX: IMO, the reopening should be paramount over all.

Aww.... -insert obviously over the top pouting face here-

But, in all seriousness.
I don't foresee any way in which our needs would interfere at all with the Legacy servers re-opening ASAP.
More likely than anything, I'd see if the Legacy team needed anything from us to expedite their work.

[Number9]

I frankly don't think the market can sustain multiple supers MMOs - at least not the the CoX successors, CoH i23 redux, CO, DCUO, and MarvelHeroes all trying to occupy the same space.  Throw in single player supers games and the market would be saturated.  Hell, the MMO and gaming market is arguably over saturated period.

So, I image the CoX successors will condense into one in the next couple of years - either some will die or they will be gobbled up by the biggest fish.  My bet is in the end you will see CoH legacy servers and one new successor (likely CoT).  No offense intended to the fans or makers of successor projects - I'm sure those trying to develop successor games realize the hill they have to climb.

The i23 servers coming back online though would be an important step.  If successful and with notable numbers (say I dunno 50k players in a 10 year old game would be notable), I think one of the successor projects could point to said numbers as an example to would be investors and raise capital.

Anyway, that's my rather smoky crystal ball prediction.

[Thunder Glove]

I've said this before, but I can't believe that having four or five super superhero games is over-saturating the market  when there are dozens of generic elves-and-wizards fantasy MMOs (with more opening every day).

[Remaugen]

I've said this before, but I can't believe that having four or five super superhero games is over-saturating the market  when there are dozens of generic elves-and-wizards fantasy MMOs (with more opening every day).

I agree wholeheartedly!


We're almost there!   

[MaidMercury]

I appreciate the effort made by Missing Worlds Media, Inc.
Thank you very much 
I read your article about your talks and *Korean etiquette and...
I still don't understand what this is alluding to, - it's like,  NCsoft is tossing out a few bread crumbs and saying
'we'll get back to you'.

As far as NCsoft allowing anyone access to the game, -I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm sure THEY didn't play games gobbling up Paragon Studios but they sure are playing mind games
to 3rd party vendors, and US, the loyal CoH subscribers that helped maintain their business.

* Who's truly being rude here?

[bugzee]

By the fans, for the fans! That's why we will succeed one way or another.

[Number9]

I've said this before, but I can't believe that having four or five super superhero games is over-saturating the market  when there are dozens of generic elves-and-wizards fantasy MMOs (with more opening every day).

I think this depends on how you define MMO - I'm talking about AAA MMORPG titles, and Im not aware of "dozens" of these in the fantasy genre.  And what's the market share of these "dozens" of fantasy MMOs?  Whats their profit margin, and how viable are they?  Whats their opportunity for development and expansion?  Id point to ArcheAge, from what Ive read they've had less than terrific success in keeping players.

[Number9]

I appreciate the effort made by Missing Worlds Media, Inc.
Thank you very much 
I read your article about your talks and *Korean etiquette and...
I still don't understand what this is alluding to, - it's like,  NCsoft is tossing out a few bread crumbs and saying
'we'll get back to you'.

As far as NCsoft allowing anyone access to the game, -I'll believe it when I see it.
I'm sure THEY didn't play games gobbling up Paragon Studios but they sure are playing mind games
to 3rd party vendors, and US, the loyal CoH subscribers that helped maintain their business.

* Who's truly being rude here?

Its alluding to doing business in East Asia and the need at times to approach matters a certain way if you want to be successful.