Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1748902 times)

AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1320 on: September 06, 2014, 02:07:00 PM »
I don't know if it was so bad.  It was in the early Hollows that I really learned about the community.  What seemed like a constantly staffed taxibot service who would port you from the farthest corner of the zone to the Atlas gate for leveling, etc.  there were lots of other examples of folks helping each other in those early days, but the cooperative and supportive atmosphere created by these "wastes of time" led to the (generally) pervasive pay-it-forward player (sometimes us agaist the Devs) mentality.  IMHO, it was things like the really difficult missions/story arcs/TF's and the opportunities to help each other that led those of us more interested in community over competition to stay while others moved on to say LoL.  I'm not saying that you have to love the hollows or even play in the hollows, but I think that the introduction of challenges that no toon at that time could solo was (intentional or not) was instrumental in developing our current community.

But, what do I know.

Yeah, and it usually takes circumstances like that to actually show new people just how great the community was. I know some of you hated those particular circumstances, but sometimes the "worst situations" bring out the best in us as human beings. I'm not encouraging "make the game as horrible as possible," but this is yet another example of Arcana's explanation of "happy accidents." This time, a horrible travel situation turned into a proof-positive example of what sort of community CoH had.

There are some people out there (my fiance is one of them) that just live to help others. That's how they're built. Making a "perfect game" where everyone can do it all themselves kind of takes away from any "gift" that these type of people can offer to others. I realize the same argument could be made for allowing every archetype to solo (doesn't allow others to help), but I still believe that the teaming aspect of CoH was extremely fun regardless of whether or not you could solo. I liked that you COULD solo if none of your friend were on or you simply didn't feel like doing any "people interaction" at the time, but the way the archetypes were built, you still felt like you were a major contributing factor to the overall success of the team.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:23:41 PM by AlienOne »
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

Shadowe

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1321 on: September 06, 2014, 02:32:02 PM »
I'm reminded of one of the great legends of Union: Mother's Love (or Mumsy, to most of us).

ML was an Empath who frequently hung around in the Hollows dropping buffs and heals on lowbies for hours at a time, just to be nice.
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AlienOne

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1322 on: September 06, 2014, 02:40:50 PM »
I'm reminded of one of the great legends of Union: Mother's Love (or Mumsy, to most of us).

ML was an Empath who frequently hung around in the Hollows dropping buffs and heals on lowbies for hours at a time, just to be nice.

Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)

I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....
"What COH did was to show [developers of other] MMOs what they could be like if they gave up on controlling everything in the game, and just made it something great to play."  - Johnny Joy Bringer

therain93

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1323 on: September 06, 2014, 02:43:18 PM »
foxfire was the mission that got my wife and I hooked on COX. I loved that one.

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Alteran

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1324 on: September 06, 2014, 02:55:53 PM »
Yup! That was me! I ran two or three other popular team-forming channels as well... I was all about doing those Task Forces! :D

You and me both Alien.  I really miss running TFs with you bud. 

I've been missing the community more and more now that my daughter is old enough to really enjoy playing games, and not just hitting the space bar on my scrapper with ninja jump.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 03:01:25 PM by Alteran »

ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1325 on: September 06, 2014, 02:57:26 PM »
Frostfire

you are right, thats what I get for posting at 3 in the morning

Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1326 on: September 06, 2014, 03:03:11 PM »
They recently lost their suit against Deadmou5, in fact he is now counter suing because they used one of his tracks without permission on one of their kids TV shows!

This article, from today, states that the suit you are refering to is on-going and that Disney properly licensed the music, despite Deadmau5 objections.

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/09/06/deadmau5_accuses_disney_of_copyright_infringement.html

Or do you mean another suit? Can you give me a link? I'm curious about this.
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CrimsonCapacitor

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1327 on: September 06, 2014, 03:21:48 PM »
That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."


^^^When things work out, THIS had better be the post that signifies our eventual homecoming.
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TheBlaze22b

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1328 on: September 06, 2014, 03:24:01 PM »
"oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
Amazing, Congratulations on the Great Work :D

dwturducken

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1329 on: September 06, 2014, 03:40:03 PM »
Pretty sure it was meant to be funny, in keeping with the general tone and humor of the community, rather than a real announcement. Also, I'm 100% positive that the actually announcement will be much less brief, will probably come from downix, and will likely get its own thread.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Remaugen

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1330 on: September 06, 2014, 04:21:50 PM »
This article, from today, states that the suit you are refering to is on-going and that Disney properly licensed the music, despite Deadmau5 objections.

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/09/06/deadmau5_accuses_disney_of_copyright_infringement.html

Or do you mean another suit? Can you give me a link? I'm curious about this.

I had read an article in Spin Magazine that seemed to imply that Disney's suit was over, or rather that's how I read it. However, revisiting the article I see that I was mistaken and reading things into that were not there.

My Bad  :-X   >>Spin Article<<
We're almost there!  ;D

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Power Gamer

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1331 on: September 06, 2014, 04:33:15 PM »
I had read an article in Spin Magazine that seemed to imply that Disney's suit was over, or rather that's how I read it. However, revisiting the article I see that I was mistaken and reading things into that were not there.

My Bad  :-X   >>Spin Article<<

Hey np, thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it.

Having worked in IP for years, I have an interest in this stuff.

It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

FloatingFatMan

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1332 on: September 06, 2014, 04:36:39 PM »
"oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."
Amazing, Congratulations on the Great Work :D

C'Mon guys, can you get it right?

Acquired: City of Heroes. Pie: Required?

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1333 on: September 06, 2014, 04:49:36 PM »
Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)

I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....
It worked great on a Sonic fender too. shield the lowbies and put the -res tag on the tank.

and just as an informational, I declare this national camp and cheese day. I just watched the 1994 Roger Corman version of Fantastic Four. And now I'm getting ready to watch the 1978 Dr. Strange flick.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1334 on: September 06, 2014, 04:51:32 PM »
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Waffles

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1335 on: September 06, 2014, 04:53:50 PM »
C'Mon guys, can you get it right?

Acquired: City of Heroes. Pie: Required?

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Battlechimp

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1336 on: September 06, 2014, 05:02:58 PM »
Exactly... I actually had an Empath Defender that I made specifically to do just that.... My fav thing to do was just join new lowbie teams doing sewer runs and keep everyone alive while they passed the "boring" levels (as I like to call them)... :)

I didn't do it often, but sometimes it was really fulfilling to get a few reactions from people who were really new to the game.... "Wow, what kind of a community IS this?!?!?" as if all their previous gaming experiences were with teenage Call of Duty players that call each other horrible names....

I still remember very early on in the game, running through Perez Park on m emp/nrg defender and seeing someone broadcasting "Will teleport and rez people 10k inf". Mind you this was back before issue 1. No market, no one had high level characters to gift money to lower level ones.  The Max amount of inf that you could trade at one time was just 10k or rather 9999. So for someone under lvl 10, that was asking a lot.

I started broadcasting "Will TP and rez people. Tips are welcome but not required!"  Got lots of tells asking for help.... and a rather angry one for ruining his business....

And then along those lines, have to give props to the Taxibots.  What other game out there has a player group that is formed to get people around the game (free of charge) across multiple servers?  Their help in the low zones, especially the hazard zones, pre hospital, the badge tours, those were awesome

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Pep Rally

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1337 on: September 06, 2014, 05:28:04 PM »
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.

Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.


I started playing CoH in Issue 2(My 10 year anniversary would be in 2 weeks), and I didn't find Tanker damage to be bad at all once I picked up enough attack powers to form a chain, and slot them with SOs.  You had to wait until a higher level since you had to split powers/slots between offense, and defense(most probably focused on defense first since you're a tank) whereas scrappers/blasters usually focused on damage first.

Another thing that could skew perception of tanker damage was you could survive against much higher level foes than other ATs. Trying to whittle down a +5 bad guy reduces your damage much more than +2s. Don't up the mission difficulty too much just because you can laugh at their meager attempts to kill you.

Once I learned those 2 things, my Tanks became my second best solo-ers(behind my scrappers).




MM3squints

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1338 on: September 06, 2014, 05:41:23 PM »
Acquired: Mandatory proper licensing.

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Step 1: Get CoX
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Step 3: ?????
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Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1339 on: September 06, 2014, 07:10:48 PM »
In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT.

In a sense, but compared to what?  At release, the tanker damage mod was 0.65, which is 81% of the value they were buffed to at 0.8.  But Scrappers were also buffed, after Tankers, from 1.0 to 1.125.  They also got pervasive crits in I1.  Although a few powers already did crits, those were also buffed.  Even assuming a 5% crit rate (it was 10% vs higher ranked targets) the effective Scrapper mod was closer to 1.18.  So looking at the modifiers as a base for comparison, tanker damage was about 65% of scrappers at release, and 68% of scrappers after the first round of damage buffs on both.  Relative to what everyone else was dealing out, Tanker damage wasn't actually significantly lower at release than it was later on.

What's more, although they did do low damage at Issue 1, interestingly their damage was more effective at release prior to Issue 1 for a not well-known technical reason.  The purple patch wasn't introduced until after release and just before Issue 1.  Prior to the introduction of the purple patch, there was no serious impediment to attacking targets large numbers of combat levels higher than you were, provided only that you could survive them.  Tankers with their high defenses and health could far more effectively attack targets as high as +8 or even +10 and gain huge rewards for it.  Even with their lower damage, they could in many cases gain higher levels of rewards by leveraging their high defenses and using their lower offense against juicier targets.  It wasn't until the purple patch was added to the game that Tankers could no longer translate their superior defenses into ultrahigh reward rates irrespective of offensive output.

Completely separate from that, Tankers were still strong solo archetypes compared to most of the others because of another historical issue: prior to the devs adding difficulty sliders, all missions including solo missions always spawned bosses (unless they were explicitly coded to *not* spawn bosses).  That made soloing significantly more difficult for the average player playing archetypes like blasters and defenders.  Tanker damage made soloing slower, but datamining proved that defenders to a smaller degree, and blasters to a ridiculous degree, were dying at far higher rates than other archetypes in solo missions.

For a significant time after release, I would say that as an archetype as a whole, Tankers were the second best archetype to solo behind Scrappers.  Blasters were far too fragile.  Most defenders had similarly low damage and were more vulnerable.  Most controllers also had low damage prior to pets (and not all controllers had pets) and only some combinations had effective means of boosting offense in solo missions.

My pre-I5 soloing chart would be:

Scrappers
High level Controllers
Tankers
Defenders
Low level Controllers
Blasters

Of course, specific builds and specific players could individually succeed with anything.  But averaged across the entire playerbase, I'm pretty confident that's how effective the original archetypes were at soloing from I1 until at least I5.