And the mask comes off.

[Arcana]

I remember in the summer of 2004, the idea of an all-defender team was considered a fad, a novelty, but not effective. People who played on the trinity-free team concepts experienced how powerful such teams could be. With corruptors, and masterminds, the variety of 8 buff/debuffers increased. The fulcrum shift was nerfed (bzzzzortch!). Radiation Infection was nerfed. Fluffy was nerfed. Hurricane was nerfed but the all 8 buff/debuffers were undaunted. In the end they threw a bone to the kinetics for team speed boost and also team bubbles and sonic rings.

Honestly, from the moment the first steam roll buff/debuff teams left port, nothing really slowed them down.  The FS and RI changes had no impact on them, and really hurricane wasn't a steamroll power anyway.  The changes to speed boost and FF/Sonic shields were more QoL changes than effectiveness changes.

The craziest team - in steam roll terms - I was ever on was an eight player all controller team with nothing but Ill/Fire and Rad/Kin/Emp back around I5-ish.  I think it was an Ill/Rad (me), two Ill/Kins, two Fire/Kins, a Fire/Emp, and two Fire/Rads.  Its hard to even describe how ridiculous that team was.  Things melted so fast that the pets were often just running in circles because their targets dropped dead before they arrived.  We were leapfrogging in two and three groups of players trying to get far enough of the pack to even hit anything.  I would run out of the pack to the next full spawn and hit them with flash, and by the time I deployed the PA everything was dead all around me from the team catching up.

We were the poster children for "Geko didn't know how to add" when it came to stacking effects.  Even after the arrival of inventions, epic powers, Incarnate abilities, and level shifts, I *still* am not certain I was ever on another team with more firepower, and I'm including fully populated BAFs.

[ivanhedgehog]

I always found the original Hollows to be a fun change.

Slinking around the zone to far doors without a travel power, dodging mobs several levels higher than I was, meeting up with random pug teammates for trysts with Frostfire...it was all a hoot!

I have one (min/max) friend who refused to set foot in Hollows...he felt it was a gigantic waste of time not to be killing everything every second he was in there, save 30 seconds for travel time.

Kids these days, they don't know what they're missing!

brought to you by

foxfire was the mission that got my wife and I hooked on COX. I loved that one.

[Brigadine]

I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.

I have to admit that almost makes it sound like they haven't asked for any of the other stuff?

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Don't quote me on them bringing up the I23 thing... I really just vaguely remember someone mentioning it.

[Stealth Dart]

 

[Stealth Dart]

 

[ChristopherRobin]

/em Salute.

Thank you very much Nate (and group) for never giving up on the game and community that I love.
Make us super again!

[impiousimp]

IF anyone wants to kill time I put up a thread in the roleplay section that wants some attention.  Just a RP concept.

[Mistress Urd]

I always found the original Hollows to be a fun change.

Slinking around the zone to far doors without a travel power, dodging mobs several levels higher than I was, meeting up with random pug teammates for trysts with Frostfire...it was all a hoot!

I have one (min/max) friend who refused to set foot in Hollows...he felt it was a gigantic waste of time not to be killing everything every second he was in there, save 30 seconds for travel time.

Kids these days, they don't know what they're missing!

brought to you by

I myself had no problem getting to the doors in the hollows, it was waiting for the other folks to show up. It always seemed like there were 2 or 3 people who never seem to make it. So yeah, its a colossal waste of time just hanging out for an hour or two. Never mind there was no trainer or hospital in the zone. That doesn't make for a good impression for new players when the contacts push folks to the hollows. A few boring waits at doors or long delays will certainly sour folks on the zone and maybe even the game.

Well the devs decided that yes, the zone was "broken" and revised it. It was *too late* the damage was done. It was something that should have been fixed while it was on test server.

At this point, that's the past, mistakes should be used as a learning experience. I'd rather focus on the first priority.

Getting the game back!

[Safehouse]

I loooooved The Hollows, actually! It was one of my favorite haunts, especially at low levels. I got so good at finding it that I can even remember now where the doors to the place are. I would go there just to take out the Trolls, Lost and Outcasts that lurked on the hills. The missions were kind of fun. And! I got to encounter my first elite boss there.

I'll never forget the frustration when I went in to fight Frostfire by myself and died dozens of times, having to schlepp all the way back across the Hollows from the hospital just to do it all over again. And when I finally beat him? Man, it was exhilarating.

[silvers1]

We were the poster children for "Geko didn't know how to add" when it came to stacking effects.  Even after the arrival of inventions, epic powers, Incarnate abilities, and level shifts, I *still* am not certain I was ever on another team with more firepower, and I'm including fully populated BAFs.

I joined a number of the all Fire/Rad teams on Freedom - I think they were on Tuesdays.  Amazing how mobs just melted away.

[Surelle]

I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.

I know I read that flying by here....somewhere....Oh Lord, what thread was it in and where?  Blargh!  I don't remember, nor who mentioned it.  I mainly remember it because it surprised me and made me jump in my seat a little bit.     I guess at the end of the day we'll either get CoX back or we won't, so we have to make do with a lot of waiting meantime. 

[blacksly]

Hehe, hey tankers are pretty good archtypes, just you want to do more than just soak hits and holding taunt down .  Tanker damage was way underrated.  They weren't brutes or scrappers but they could still hit more than hard enough to destroy mobs quickly enough.  Besides 8 tankers can easily force multiply up with leadership .

In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.

Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.

[blacksly]

Honestly, from the moment the first steam roll buff/debuff teams left port, nothing really slowed them down. 
...
We were the poster children for "Geko didn't know how to add" when it came to stacking effects. 

I always thought that the real place where we needed Diminishing Returns was not so much in slotting as in buff/debuff stacking. They should have stacked linearly in "buff value", but then the total buffage should have been put through a curved function before applying its in-game effects so that it would be far harder to buff or debuff to the caps. Using linear equations and limiting with floors and caps was so... overly simplistic.

[Kaos Arcanna]

In which Issue? At Issue 1, Tankers did pretty low damage. I recall at least two damage boosts for them, and one was pretty significant. After that, yeah, Tanks became a much better soloing AT. Also, because it was after the Global Defense Nerf, their defenses were no longer so overdone, and you actually had use for multiple defensive options either because you wanted to buff the Tank or you wanted multiple Tanks or something.

Basically, in the beginning, they were unwanted and superfluous after the first Tanker, and ridiculously OP defensively. But after a good amount of decent fixes, they became a solidly-balanced AT that fit in a playstyle outside of the healer-tanker-control (or maybe damage in CoH) trinity.

I recall Ironwolf saying pretty much that. That they were originally just going after the IP and then the option to buy I23 came up.

[Surelle]

[AlienOne]

My memory sucks...but now I remember why the name "Alien One" sounds so familiar.   (Probably from the old forums too)   That was an awesome channel.   A lot of people thought you couldn't get any good teams on Freedom but my experience was the exact opposite.    Forming a team was easy as....pie.   

Yup! That was me! I ran two or three other popular team-forming channels as well... I was all about doing those Task Forces!

[Lava-Lad]

I myself had no problem getting to the doors in the hollows, it was waiting for the other folks to show up. It always seemed like there were 2 or 3 people who never seem to make it. So yeah, its a colossal waste of time just hanging out for an hour or two. Never mind there was no trainer or hospital in the zone. That doesn't make for a good impression for new players when the contacts push folks to the hollows. A few boring waits at doors or long delays will certainly sour folks on the zone and maybe even the game.

Well the devs decided that yes, the zone was "broken" and revised it. It was *too late* the damage was done. It was something that should have been fixed while it was on test server.

At this point, that's the past, mistakes should be used as a learning experience. I'd rather focus on the first priority.

Getting the game back!

I don't know if it was so bad.  It was in the early Hollows that I really learned about the community.  What seemed like a constantly staffed taxibot service who would port you from the farthest corner of the zone to the Atlas gate for leveling, etc.  there were lots of other examples of folks helping each other in those early days, but the cooperative and supportive atmosphere created by these "wastes of time" led to the (generally) pervasive pay-it-forward player (sometimes us agaist the Devs) mentality.  IMHO, it was things like the really difficult missions/story arcs/TF's and the opportunities to help each other that led those of us more interested in community over competition to stay while others moved on to say LoL.  I'm not saying that you have to love the hollows or even play in the hollows, but I think that the introduction of challenges that no toon at that time could solo was (intentional or not) was instrumental in developing our current community.

But, what do I know.

[bugzee]

Here was his original riot gear Hollows look.

It looks like there is long blond hair coming out the back of the helmet.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

It looks like there is long blond hair coming out the back of the helmet.

Omg, It totally does. That's one thing that drove me INSANE. I wanted SO badly to be able to use hats with different hairs. I loved some of the hats, but all my characters have long hair....