Author Topic: And the mask comes off.  (Read 1750223 times)

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1260 on: September 06, 2014, 03:26:22 AM »
Actually, I think Arcana's comment about incompetence was meant to imply that it was incompetent because it happened by accident, rather than via design. If the devs had designed all the ATs to solo deliberately, it would have been good design. But since the devs wanted Controllers to be a teaming AT, then having Fire/Kins soloing the way they did, was poor design.

Their design was that Scrappers were to be used for soloing, and everyone else should have problems. And Tankers and Controllers should be desired on teams (but more than 1-2 usually was not that desirable). Since things didn't turn out as they wanted, they clearly did not achieve what they wanted.

That what they got instead turned out to be good is more of a happy accident than competent design.

Exactly so. As deep into the game as I4 the devs were still designing around archetypes as if they had far more fixed roles on teams than the players felt they should, and were still thinking in terms that trinity-style gameplay could still  be salvaged.  The "everyone should be able to solo" informal design rule didn't really become a genuine design rule as far as I know until CoV.  Look at CoV archetypes, and notice the shift in design.  CoV is obviously "post-trinity." 

But if the devs actually had a strong grasp of how to make the numbers do what they wanted, we would have never gotten the City of Heroes we ended up with.  To put it in direct terms, the devs did not have enough control over the numbers to fine-tune archetype power between "lame" and "overpowered" so most things ended up overpowered relative to the design.  At launch, powerset combination meant more to your overall power than archetype.  Invuln/SS tanker?  Godzilla.  MA/DA scrapper?  Doormat.  Dark defender?  Awesome.  Electric/Fire Blaster?  Roadkill.  Emp/Electric defender?  Useless except as a sidekick.  By the time they figured out how to fix it, it was too late to fix: City of Heroes became the best MMO in the history of MMOs to solo in, because the devs handed out powerlevels most admins don't have in other MMOs.  They couldn't bring down the overpowered stuff to "correct" levels except in the extreme cases, so they were forced to buff the players upward to balance archetypes out.  Players always complained about nerfs, but the history of City of Heroes is an 80/20 buff to nerf empower-o-rama.

Incidentally, the last vestige of trinity-thinking lasted surprisingly long.  It was the legacy of Blasters having no alternate design ethic once trinity was no longer the law of the land.  In my opinion, it wasn't until Arbiter Hawk started to look at Blasters - literally in I23 - that I think Blasters escaped trinity-thinking; the last archetype to do so.  Also, just a bit too late because I24 would have been the first issue to contain the start of non-trinity Blasters (one of my regrets was that I think in AH I finally had a Blaster ally on the dev team that thought about them somewhat like I did, and was willing to experiment with them outside the glass-cannon trinity model, and I'll never know where we could have eventually gotten Blasters to).

In any case, none of this was even remotely by design.  It was 100% accident.

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1261 on: September 06, 2014, 03:29:07 AM »
you just described SWTOR perfectly

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Number9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1262 on: September 06, 2014, 03:29:33 AM »
A request to the powers that be.  Can we get a stickied post, possibly like a dev tracker type locked thread, to keep theposts pertaining to the deal/negotiations that only includes posts from Nate maybe.  This thread like the others onthe topic get easily derailed and its a bit of a job sifting through it to find the important posts.  Nothing wrong with all the excitement and chatter, I'd just like to be sure to catch the really important posts if and when they are made.

PS perhaps an 'editors choice' thread with the very best and most clear/concise posts.
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ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1263 on: September 06, 2014, 03:35:53 AM »
Snark will cost you 50 Jedi points.  I'm afraid you're no longer allowed to use your Light-side keyboard.

thats why I am a darth.....hahahaha

Arcana

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1264 on: September 06, 2014, 03:42:05 AM »
A request to the powers that be.  Can we get a stickied post, possibly like a dev tracker type locked thread, to keep theposts pertaining to the deal/negotiations that only includes posts from Nate maybe.  This thread like the others onthe topic get easily derailed and its a bit of a job sifting through it to find the important posts.  Nothing wrong with all the excitement and chatter, I'd just like to be sure to catch the really important posts if and when they are made.

PS perhaps an 'editors choice' thread with the very best and most clear/concise posts.

I suspect that the next actual update with real information we get will either be "we did it" or "derailed" and will be made in a different announcement thread.  That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."

Not trying to slam you or anything, just pointing out that the acquisition team should not, and probably will not, post actual updates about actual negotiations (and would be bordering on brain-dead if they did), so the only discussion you're likely to get past the first day or so when they were answering specific direct questions are excited players just happy to be talking about anything specific.

In fact there were rumors swirling just before the announcement that I believe the actual announcement was made to prevent wild speculation.  I do not believe it was intended to be the start of a negotiation blog.  If those rumors hadn't surfaced (because of the thing with the thing, its a done deal now) I don't think we'd even have this thread to talk about yet.

Aggelakis

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1265 on: September 06, 2014, 03:42:21 AM »
A request to the powers that be.  Can we get a stickied post, possibly like a dev tracker type locked thread, to keep theposts pertaining to the deal/negotiations that only includes posts from Nate maybe.  This thread like the others onthe topic get easily derailed and its a bit of a job sifting through it to find the important posts.  Nothing wrong with all the excitement and chatter, I'd just like to be sure to catch the really important posts if and when they are made.

PS perhaps an 'editors choice' thread with the very best and most clear/concise posts.
There is pretty much not going to be any more information until the talks are further along. Right now, all we're doing is waiting. And all we can do while waiting is talk amongst each other. Further announcements should be in their own thread. You can bookmark downix's posts if you want, but he doesn't only post about the deal.
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Cailyn Alaynn

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1266 on: September 06, 2014, 03:44:43 AM »
There is pretty much not going to be any more information until the talks are further along.

Yeah, There's not really going to be weekly updates or anything. I think most people's questions have been answered at this point. Now I think it's really just waiting, and killing time.
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Number9

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1267 on: September 06, 2014, 04:07:51 AM »
I'm posting via my phone ATM. I'm posting in the dark in my house without electricity.  I didn't express myself too well. I don't think I made myself clear.

There are a great many posts, most of which are side chatter.  There are some that are very informative.  Some that help clear up questions from new folks dropping in.  Perhaps an 'editors' choice thread would be useful.
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hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1268 on: September 06, 2014, 04:10:02 AM »
Yeah, There's not really going to be weekly updates or anything. I think most people's questions have been answered at this point. Now I think it's really just waiting, and killing time.

    I am, and always will be, an enrg/enrg blaster, please, just tell me where to find this "time" that needs killing and I shall happily oblige  ;) 

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1269 on: September 06, 2014, 04:10:51 AM »
I suspect that the next actual update with real information we get will either be "we did it" or "derailed" and will be made in a different announcement thread.  That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."


That would be the perfect way to announce it.
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Rejolt

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1270 on: September 06, 2014, 04:11:12 AM »
I fully admit to putting microfiliments in Sprint because it said it boosted jumping. Years later I found out it was adding inches to my jump height only.

I adored fully slotted hover pre-ed, but power boost made it spiffy.

Hover, hurdle, Cj and super speed. Couldn't do without them. The control and speed in combat just hasn't been matched (or smoothly animated) in the hero mmos since.
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hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1271 on: September 06, 2014, 04:11:57 AM »
That would be the perfect way to announce it.


  lol :) pie is always good.

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1272 on: September 06, 2014, 04:12:24 AM »
I'm posting via my phone ATM. I'm posting in the dark in my house without electricity.  I didn't express myself too well. I don't think I made myself clear.

There are a great many posts, most of which are side chatter.  There are some that are very informative.  Some that help clear up questions from new folks dropping in.  Perhaps an 'editors' choice thread would be useful.

Are you attempting to eschew electricity until the game is back?
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1273 on: September 06, 2014, 04:13:51 AM »
I fully admit to putting microfiliments in Sprint because it said it boosted jumping. Years later I found out it was adding inches to my jump height only.

I adored fully slotted hover pre-ed, but power boost made it spiffy.

Hover, hurdle, Cj and super speed. Couldn't do without them. The control and speed in combat just hasn't been matched (or smoothly animated) in the hero mmos since.

The Guards Jolteh?
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

pinballdave

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1274 on: September 06, 2014, 04:16:42 AM »
I keep forgetting about that tidbit. If memory serves, you're correct. NCSoft brought up the I23 server during negotiations, as far as I understand.

I don't remember hearing this detail until the time of this posting.

hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1275 on: September 06, 2014, 04:18:27 AM »
I don't remember hearing this detail until the time of this posting.

  That particular fact is the most important part to me-that would be so awesome of NCsoft to do that.

Ankhammon

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1276 on: September 06, 2014, 04:19:18 AM »
I don't remember hearing this detail until the time of this posting.

I don't remember that bit either. Just might be new information.

OK people, we might have just had an update. :)
Cogito, Ergo... eh?

hopelives

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1277 on: September 06, 2014, 04:19:56 AM »
I don't remember that bit either. Just might be new information.

OK people, we might have just had an update. :)

 OMG.....

ivanhedgehog

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1278 on: September 06, 2014, 04:21:58 AM »
I don't remember that bit either. Just might be new information.

OK people, we might have just had an update. :)

ninja updates ftw!!!

Goddangit

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Re: And the mask comes off.
« Reply #1279 on: September 06, 2014, 04:22:34 AM »
I suspect that the next actual update with real information we get will either be "we did it" or "derailed" and will be made in a different announcement thread.  That's not the sort of thing you just post an update into a 63 page thread and say "oh, by the way, we own City of Heroes now: who wants pie."

Mmmmm... pie...